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View Poll Results: Would you rather have Shaw or Hayden as Anakin in the ghost scene at the end of ROTJ
Sebastian Shaw 39 57.35%
Hayden Christiansen 29 42.65%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: OT DVD ghost scene
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:37 PM   #81
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^^^
Good point (even though fans would freak out if Ewan was put in). BTW, Welcome to the forums!

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Old 10-04-2005, 04:15 PM   #82
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As for having our cake and eating it too, one person (I can't remember where) suggested a compromise.

Show the three Force Ghosts (or Jedi Spirits, whatever you want to call 'em) as they are in ROTJ for the normal duration, and then have them slowly fade into "younger" versions of themselves. Shaw becomes Christiansen, Guiness becomes McGregor and finally ol' Yoda puppet becomes CG Yoda in his prime like we've never seen before... at a spry 100 years of age, or something.

This could show the characters as they were when they REALLY died, all as old men, and their "rejuvination" in the Force to show that age no longer has any meaning for them. Luke smiles, rest of movie continues as before.


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Old 10-04-2005, 04:45 PM   #83
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That'd be pretty sweet...


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Old 10-04-2005, 05:53 PM   #84
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I like that idea, that would have been pretty sweet indeed.




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Old 10-04-2005, 05:58 PM   #85
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Hurrufm! Agreed, great idea.

I doubt the topic about it would get up to 9 pages though. :P



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Old 10-04-2005, 06:28 PM   #86
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Which would you rather have?

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Old 10-04-2005, 06:57 PM   #87
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These topics are saving LucasForums!1!!one!

Shaw or LucasForums?

Lucas's plan all along, to keep messageboards across the world alive with chat.



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Old 10-04-2005, 07:22 PM   #88
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Thanks for the welcome. Kurgan that is a great idea. Perhaps we can talk to Lucas and he can make the change when he rereleases them for the 10th time.
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Old 10-04-2005, 10:00 PM   #89
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Or the 11th....

Actually I think some enterprising fan could do it right now as a "test concept" animation or something. Just use a shot or two of Yoda and Ewan from ROTS. Maybe a better shot of Anakin not doing his "stalker stare"...

Pass it around the 'net and perhaps Lucas will get the message!


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Old 10-05-2005, 04:07 AM   #90
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Yeah, stalker stare.

The "When I figure out how to get into your world again, I'm gonna kill you" look.




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Old 10-05-2005, 09:04 PM   #91
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@ Kurgan that (ghosts idea) would be sweet. And it would make (most) everybody happy.


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Old 10-05-2005, 11:36 PM   #92
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Somebody should do a little "proof of concept" of this seriously...

Anybody got some Adobe Premier skills here?


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Old 10-07-2005, 10:27 PM   #93
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Whether or not Anakin called himself "Darth Vader" or not at that point is irrelevant. He died as an old man and his soul, which was Anakin Skywalker- became one with the force then. He didn't die in Episode III. To say he died then would be figuratively speaking. George Lucas is way too happy re-editing his old films and re-inventing the wheel each time. Just leave the Shaw ghost in for cryin' out loud...
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Old 10-11-2005, 02:39 AM   #94
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I did something I never thought in a million years I'd ever do, and I voted Hayden. The reason is this: I have small kids. 4 of them, all 6 or under. My boy's 4. So he gets the movies to an extent, but until I got the OT on dvd, I don't think he fully understood that it was Anakin at the end of Jedi until he saw Hayden. I've watched Jedi with him several times, and until we saw it together on dvd, he'd never commented on that scene. As it is, he said "Look Dad! Anakin's a ghost!" I never really got the message that these movies (PT, to be specific) aren't just made for me, but also for the kids of today until that happened.


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Old 10-11-2005, 02:54 AM   #95
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Eh, not good enough reason.

If he's 4 he's not old enough to watch it anyway.




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Old 10-11-2005, 02:57 AM   #96
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I was watching Star Wars when I was 4...


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Old 10-11-2005, 12:30 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Gaarni
Eh, not good enough reason.
Maybe not for you, but for CapN it seems it was good enough. We aren't here to convince you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Gaarni
If he's 4 he's not old enough to watch it anyway.
Care to give us the retarded logic that led you to this conclusion?
Most people that saw Star Wars were 4-5. Star Wars has always been for little kids, what was marvelous about it was it entertained people of all generations.


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Old 10-11-2005, 01:44 PM   #98
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I don't agree with the "4 year olds understand it better" logic because, well, we just saw Shaw 2 minutes ago and 4 year olds could understand it back in the 80's! Unless the argument for the change is '4 year olds have become stupider' then I totally disagree with that as a good enough reason for the change.



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Old 10-11-2005, 01:49 PM   #99
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Errr, Sith, you really need to read posts better.

You might notice the at the end of the sentence?

I rest my case.

(see, Kurgan, this is more than enough to win an "argument" no need to drag it out )

EDIT: Hmm, in case that will also be missunderstood, yes I'm kidding.




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Old 10-11-2005, 02:32 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idle
I don't agree with the "4 year olds understand it better" logic because, well, we just saw Shaw 2 minutes ago and 4 year olds could understand it back in the 80's! Unless the argument for the change is '4 year olds have become stupider' then I totally disagree with that as a good enough reason for the change.
That's not the argument at all. I'm just saying he knows Anakin as Hayden. He's not stupid, he just likes PT alot, and identifies the character of Anakin as Hayden easier than Shaw, because Shaw was Anakin for five ****ing minutes, tops, and Hayden got a little more than four hours as Anakin. There. I spelled it out for you. I don't ask that you agree with the logic, just that you exercise basic reading and comprehension skills, and maybe realize that we're talking about a ****ing four year old.


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Old 10-12-2005, 06:10 AM   #101
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Calm down for christ's sake.



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Old 10-12-2005, 05:37 PM   #102
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Whoa, fanboys ahoy. First of all, I couldn't really decide whether I liked Shaw or Hayden better (I voted Shaw barely only due to the fact I first saw the movie with him in it sense I only have the special edition VHS), but now I'm starting to think Hayden, because as soon as I read that guy's post, it made me remember that when I saw Return of the Jedi (don't laugh- but it was not until last April, and I was, and still am, exactly 10 years older than that kid), I actually asked my brother who he was. He just doesn't look similar enough to Hayden, at least without all the burn marks, that I could actually tell. Also keep in mind this was after seeing all the movies (other than III, as it was not out at the time) in order from I to VI. So I think having Hayden play him really helps, and gives it a better link to the prequel trilogy.
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:40 AM   #103
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Wink

Hmm, when I was 6 years old seeing ROTJ I had no problem making the connection that the old guy who was the ghost at the end was Luke's father,Anakin Skywalker. It was obviously the same guy who I'd just seen moments earlier under the mask that Luke took off, only without the scars and his hair was back (surely in "jedi heaven" they fix you up, right? but they don't turn you into a kid again!). No problem...

I even sent away for the bonus action figure of him!

The "oh the kids won't get it" assumes they watched Episodes II and III first, THEN Return of the Jedi. But even then it also assumes they don't understand the concept of aging...

"But why was he old? He should have been young! Even though his kids are all grown up, people don't get old!!!" etc.

Give the kids a little credit. Sure, not every kid understands everything, but this seems like a poor excuse to edit the film. I think he probably was just like:

"well, since I'm tinkering with the movies anyway since I'm George Lucas, what the hell... and now that people are going to associate Hayden with Anakin forever I will give into his googely eyed demands to let him make a "cameo" in Jedi"

Not "Oh no! My definitive vision has been compromised because some little tykes in 2004 DO NOT UNDERSTAND! I must immediately pay somebody to paste in Hayden's face. Ah, thankfully I have a clip of him leering like a madman, perfect! Cut, paste, done!"

Anakin in that scene is thinking "Heh, heh, yeah my boy's a playah just like his old man! I know that's your sister, but she's hot, go for it son!"

Luke, who was formerly smiling at the thought of his father's redemption is momentarily creeped out for a second. He almost wets his Jedi uniform when Leia touches him to go back to the fire. Luke lets himself be taken away from the scary man... Geez dad was a perv!

Anyway, Lucas's kids are old enough to be able to figure that stuff out too. Did a test audience of little brats go "Where's Jar Jar mommy??" leading him to insert the Naboo "wesa free!" clip? Who knows... but I don't see it as a plot point necessity.

Sure you could say after ROTS we basically had no choice but to see that less time had passed between trilogies than we original thought back in the day. But it's really a bigger problem than just Anakin, if we admit that. All the surviving characters look older than they "should be" and events seem like they took place a longer time ago than they did (how could Motti have forgotten the Jedi already? etc). If we can overlook those "inconsistencies" then we can overlook Anakin. But at least if he was going to try to patch the age shift problem, he should have made Anakin look like he ought to have looked under the armor at that time... as a man in his 40's, not a spry 21 year old.

Personally I think all the arguments for the change are BS anyway, as this wasn't really an inconsistency before.

The strongest they can really come up with is "Lucas can do whatever he wants, so I can live with it, since I have no control over it, so stop whining, it's only a few seconds of the entire movie."

Calling somebody a nerd for complaining about this is just as silly, because only a "nerd" would feel the need to defend the change, anyway. Anybody else (non-fans) just wouldn't care one way or the other, IMHO.


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Old 10-13-2005, 12:47 AM   #104
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I never said he didn't know Shaw was supposed to be Anakin, or that it was a good excuse to alter the film. I'm saying he (my son) identifies the character of Anakin as being played by Hayden. That's all. Jeez.


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Old 10-13-2005, 12:47 AM   #105
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Perhaps you should re-read CapN's post, Kurgan.

:Edit: Beaten by the CapN.


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Old 10-13-2005, 12:53 AM   #106
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Wink

Maybe he also identifies the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi as being played by Ewan McGregor. Maybe he identifies with Clive Revil as playing the Emperor...

Maybe he identifies with Yoda and Jabba being puppets or one of the different voices of Boba Fett... All he has is an opinion just like everyone else, wonderful, thanks for sharing then!


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Old 10-13-2005, 12:55 AM   #107
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Someone sounds like they want a debate...


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Old 10-13-2005, 12:56 AM   #108
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Sith
Someone sounds like they want a debate...
No Sith, you will find it is you who want to debate, about a great many things!


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Old 10-13-2005, 01:56 AM   #109
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Quote:
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All he has is an opinion just like everyone else, wonderful, thanks for sharing then!
Well yeah. I thought that's what the poll was for. To see what the general opinion was, and maybe discuss it. Not to justify ones reasoning, or prove another persons opinion to be not a good enough reason for the change or whatever. If I assumed incorrectly, then accept my apologies, please.


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Old 10-13-2005, 02:10 AM   #110
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Thumbs up

Don't worry. I've commented so much on the subject I don't even remember what I've said anymore and to whom or why. I've basically thrown out all my good ideas, the rest is rambling. Please ignore.

And please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding or percieved insult.


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Old 10-14-2005, 08:44 AM   #111
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Okay, sorry for the lateness of this reply, but first of all, Lucas has claimed that Anakin's original form was preserved by Yoda and Obi-Wan, and they were the ones who created the ghost. If Darth Vader learned that power, don't you think he would've at least mentioned it? He would probably think he was invulnerable and his reign would last forever! Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:03 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.
So there is a God after all.




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Old 10-14-2005, 06:18 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Okay, sorry for the lateness of this reply, but first of all, Lucas has claimed that Anakin's original form was preserved by Yoda and Obi-Wan, and they were the ones who created the ghost. If Darth Vader learned that power, don't you think he would've at least mentioned it? He would probably think he was invulnerable and his reign would last forever! Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.

Where did you get all these startling relevations? I'd like to see the source.


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Old 10-15-2005, 04:23 AM   #114
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Ssshhh, Kurgan, don't question it. Jar Jar get's blown to hell!

Don't ruin the moment.




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Old 10-18-2005, 06:09 PM   #115
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Jar Jar would have been older than Obi-wan at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Did the gungan saying "weesa free" sound like an elderly person?



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Old 03-14-2006, 06:17 AM   #116
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I voted for Hayden because seeing him at the end really helped me connect the PT with the OT and I think it's only fitting that Anakin should be shown before he turned to the dark side.


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Old 03-23-2006, 01:30 PM   #117
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Definely Shaw



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Old 03-23-2006, 01:44 PM   #118
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Shaw, because the change makes little sense and Hayden's face does not belong in the OT. I would accept (as a compromise) Kurgan's "fade-to-youth" idea.
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:51 PM   #119
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I'd say Hayden. Maybe because I don't recall what Shaw looks like. If somebody could put up a pic of him......


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Old 03-23-2006, 05:13 PM   #120
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Hayden is the obvious choice.
I know when he died he wasn't Vader, he was Anakin and he didn't look young, but he didn't look old and fat either.



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