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View Poll Results: What Role Should Jedi Play?
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I Don't care what role they should have I just want them super unblanaced and god like 0 0%
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Thread: Jedi : What role should they play in the new RTS
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:13 PM   #41
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I said they would have weak-er heroes.

Yoda and Mace would still be strong but not as strong as Vader and Palpatine or Luke.


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Old 12-22-2004, 10:14 PM   #42
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Yoda still dominates them with knowledge of the force. 800 years of experience just pays off.


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Old 12-23-2004, 01:51 AM   #43
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Anyone called Trebor should be extra-strong!
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Old 12-23-2004, 05:26 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
Yoda still dominates them with knowledge of the force. 800 years of experience just pays off.
Yet why wasn't he able to stop Palpatine?


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Old 12-23-2004, 11:03 AM   #45
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Maybe because in Episode 6 Palpy looks like he's 8000 years old?


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Old 12-23-2004, 12:23 PM   #46
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Who knows have to wait for Episode 3.


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Old 12-23-2004, 04:51 PM   #47
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luke - but the point is they were able to put together 200 Jedi to strike at Geonosis. Add to that the other 9500 Jedi around, and there is no good reason why they shouldnt be buildable.

As people have said before, Jedi are one of the main features of Star Wars, certainly the most interesting aspect. To limit them to being only heroes would limit the game and the possabilities, and would unfairly disadvantage the Republic.

As i have said before, all you do is give everyone Jedi heroes, but also give the Republic weaker buildable Jedi to preserve the realism of the films and to enable players to enjoy slicing and dicing droid armies.


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Old 12-24-2004, 05:40 AM   #48
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So I suppose, you agree with me that Clone Troopers should be weaker then droids then? Weaker then stormies(although I don't why since they're basically the same) and Rebel Troopers(well that's normal but hey)?

They should also have weaker vehicles.

To allow Jedi as a viable force, you have to dumb down lots of other features of the Republic Army.


I know we can give other civs bounty hunters but as Malak says in KOTOR:"No mere bounty hunter can defeat a Jedi". Or something along those lines. So technically, it doesn't make much sense. Also, having a such a specific counter unit is bad for gameplay. It's like the idea of having the snowspeeder specifically armed with the harpoon to defeat the AT-AT.


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Old 12-25-2004, 05:54 PM   #49
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luke - no. It's all about the individual civs and how they play. As i've said before, the Jedi should be really strong, but also really expensive and take a long time to build. In addition, while they would be great against droid armies, they should also be very vulnerable to massed fire tactics, like in the Geonosian Arena. In terms of an RTS, although more droids were destroyed, the cost and build times involved would give the victory to the Confederacy because it would take less time and money to rebuild.


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Old 12-25-2004, 06:41 PM   #50
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This undermines their usefulness. Why would people bother making this supposedly powerful warriors if they're crushed by enemy numbers. To balance them out, they would need to be very few in numbers, possibly 10 or 15(this is not a static limit but more like the number the average player will make, considering the built time and cost of the unit).

The Confederacy can just spawn hundreds of troopers and the 10-15 Jedi would get mowed down like nothing. Even with support from other units.

It all comes down to the same as having 12 Jedi heroes.


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Old 12-26-2004, 04:19 AM   #51
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Not really. The Jedi would be extremely strong if you could get them right up to the enemy, and would also be useful for shielding Clone Troopers while they pick off the droids.


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Old 12-26-2004, 05:42 AM   #52
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So they're basically very strong units used as...canon fodder?

Then again, if they're trying to run up against a Confederate enemy who's known for massing units, how will they get near them without getting mowed down by a massive barrage?


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Old 12-26-2004, 06:36 PM   #53
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The survivors of the arena managed to survive when leading clones out into battle. They stand infront and deflect shots while the Clones deal the damage to the droids.


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Old 12-26-2004, 06:50 PM   #54
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They seemed more to be like leaders charging ahead of their forces in battle. A bunch of Jedi cannot seriously hope to deflect enough fire, outnumbered as they were.


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Old 12-27-2004, 12:48 AM   #55
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luke - correct. But with the arena, there were heaps of Jedi, so they were able to withstand it. On the battlefield though, while the Jedi deflect shots, the Clone Troopers shoot at the droids, which reduces the amount of work the Jedi have to do.


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Old 12-27-2004, 04:14 AM   #56
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Windu your neglecting the fact that quite a lot of the Jedi in the arena actually DIED.

we didn't see the jedi going forward deflecting bolts so the clone troopers could fire unhindred we saw the Jedi giving the orders, the same is true with EU, once again you are following your own fantasy not Star Wars.


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Old 12-27-2004, 06:06 PM   #57
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Yes alot of Jedi died but also there most powerful ones are still alive. (For now anyways) More died during the on going Clone Wars thats what the whole war was about to secure the Clones in the galaxy and to kill the Jedi.


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Old 12-27-2004, 06:23 PM   #58
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Viceroy - no, i'm not. If you had paid attention, which for you seems impossible, you would have noticed that i have already said that Jedi should do really well against a few droids, but be vulnerable to massed fire - which is exactly what happened at Geonosis.

As for the Jedi and Clones, we did NOT see them giving orders, but we did see them deflecting shots from droids - pay attention to the films a bit more boy.


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Old 12-28-2004, 06:17 AM   #59
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So I suppose you've actually seen the films considering what you come up with I doubt it.

I on the other hand watch them at least once a week.

Master Yoda says for the Clones -"concentrate your fire on the nearest starship" no hesitation to do so.

Master windu when the clone commander says "sir we have severval commando divisions at your orders," does master windu not say "this way"? I think those would class as the jedi leading the army.

Windu what would you define as a war? a handful of droids firing or millions of droids clashing with millions of clones? if the Jedi did what you propose is their role than the Jedi would have all died in the first year of the Clone Wars.

Get a Grip Windu.


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Old 12-28-2004, 03:08 PM   #60
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On the DVD GL said that the Jedi were the Generals on the Battle of Geonosis.

We actually did see Windu deflecting a bolt while running into battle. It would have been suicide if they run right up to there front lines and started melee combat.


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Old 12-28-2004, 03:10 PM   #61
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well yeah they're obviously gonna delflect a bolt or two otherwise they;d be dead, It's just Windu not actually knowing the films, and he calls himself a Purist.


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Old 12-28-2004, 05:12 PM   #62
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Viceroy-
Quote:
I on the other hand watch them at least once a week.
Do I really have to point out how sad that is?

Quote:
Master windu when the clone commander says "sir we have severval commando divisions at your orders,"
Piece of advice, if you are going to use quotes, at least try to get them right. The Clone actually says "five special commando units", not several divisions LOL. Do you even have any idea how big a division is?

Quote:
Windu what would you define as a war? a handful of droids firing or millions of droids clashing with millions of clones?
War is rather subjective, in that it cannot be defined by just numbers. I mean, if war is defined by a million beligerants, what do you call a conflict with 999,999 beligerants?

Quote:
if the Jedi did what you propose is their role than the Jedi would have all died in the first year of the Clone Wars
I fail to see how. Since the Jedi would have been protecting the Clones, and the Clones would have been killing the Droids, how would the Jedi all be killed?


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Old 12-29-2004, 02:38 AM   #63
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Since there would be hundreds if not thousands of clones and driods in a battle and if even half the droids focused fire on the jedi the jedi would be dead.


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Old 12-30-2004, 01:01 AM   #64
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Focus fire has always been apart of RTS especially against heroes. Its something you cannot avoid except just running away or just not getting yourself into those situations which most Jedi don't.


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Old 12-30-2004, 01:15 AM   #65
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so once AGAIN Gameplay + Realism > Windu's idea of how jedi work.


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Old 12-30-2004, 04:34 PM   #66
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...huh?

Viceroy, had you been paying attention you would have seen that I said that JEDI SHOULD BE VERY POWERFUL BUT VULNERABLE TO MASSED FIRE. That is good for realism, because it is how the Jedi work in the films, and it's good for gameplay, because it means the Jedi aren't god units.

Therefore, I would appreciate it you would qualify your statement.


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Old 12-30-2004, 07:17 PM   #67
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So tell me Mr Gameplay, how in hell will the Rebels counter the Jedi? I mean, realistically, they have less units so they couldn't use mass fire against the Jedi. Ooo I know, let's give them a specific counter unit. That's excellent for gameplay.


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Old 12-31-2004, 02:12 AM   #68
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Give the Rebels the ability to call a ally with the enemies Jedi since Rebels don't kill Light Jedi. Closest thing to realism you will get


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Old 12-31-2004, 06:54 AM   #69
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Windu Mr.Gamplay? that's the best joke I've heard all year Luke you should be given an award for it


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Old 12-31-2004, 06:58 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
Give the Rebels the ability to call a ally with the enemies Jedi since Rebels don't kill Light Jedi. Closest thing to realism you will get
Yeah! Call in a battlalion of Sith! That's excellent!


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Old 12-31-2004, 07:12 AM   #71
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That's even funnier I can't wait for Windu to see that He'll FLIP.


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Old 12-31-2004, 05:06 PM   #72
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Viceroy - good grief man, get a life

luke - why wouldn't the Rebels be able to kill Jedi? As I said before, the Jedi should not be god units, just very powerful.


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Old 01-01-2005, 01:07 PM   #73
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And you also said they were vulnerable to mass fire. Thus, the Clones, Imperials and Confederacy all have better counters to the Jedi then the Rebels since they can mass more units.

If you sent an equal force of Jedi against a full battallion of Droids, they would deal less damage but hit them a hell of a lot more often while the Rebels would hit them a lot less often for a bit more damage.

They can't mount a massive barrage like the other civs thus making them more vulnerable to the Jedi.


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Old 01-01-2005, 03:52 PM   #74
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Rebels would have more quality then quantity so a group of 20 droids or whaterver needed to kill one Jedi but only 10 Rebel troops needed for the same task.


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Old 01-01-2005, 05:40 PM   #75
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luke - what FroZ said is correct. Although the Rebels would field smaller ground armies, they would be better quality than the droids or stormies, and remember that the Rebel air force could easily pick off the Jedi because they could not attack airborne targets.

In terms of how they would play, the Rebel ground forces would be the shield, while their air force would be their sword.


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Old 01-01-2005, 06:08 PM   #76
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Then they're not vulnerable to mass fire. They're just units with more hp that requires more firepower to kill.

That doesn't represent weakness against mass fire.


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Old 01-01-2005, 07:40 PM   #77
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Well I want to know how Jedi will survive against Rebel air.....


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Old 01-01-2005, 08:40 PM   #78
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And against blasts with an area of effect. Like Bombs and such.


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Old 01-02-2005, 01:08 AM   #79
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luke - yes, they would. Regardless of how many troops could or could not be brought to bear, the more the better. As I said previously, Jedi should be able to deal effectively with a small amount of troops, but not with large numbers. Basically, every Rebel shot that got through would do more damage to a Jedi and, again as I said, Rebel air forces will be best equipped to deal with Jedi.

As for Air Forces and area-of-effect weapons, they would work very well against Jedi. Look at the Battle of Geonosis, the Jedi were doing really badly against the Geonosian Cannon, and they really couldnt do anything to aircraft. While being realistic, this would also be beneficial to gameplay because if people just built Jedi, they would be defeated rather easily, and so you would have to build a combined-arms team.


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Old 01-02-2005, 06:47 AM   #80
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The Confederacy would have quite an advantage against Jedi it seems since Lightsabre's are unable to deflect Sonic Blasts.

I wouldn't say the Rebels have Quality they just have fighting spirit and whatever equipment they can lay their hands on, which isn't nessacerily high tech.


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