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Old 01-11-2005, 10:18 PM   #1
ION1022
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just so you know

I have something to get off my chest. I downloaded the mod demo on the day it was released, finished it, then didn't play it again. Don't get me wrong I loved the demo and the mod and I still think Dark Forces is one of the best games ever (next to half life 2 ) but you guys got to know that the sewer level is the worst level in the entire game, I always used the level skip code for that level in the orginal game. Plus I found that if I play a demo too much I start to get sick of the game before I even play it. You guys are doing a great job on the mod and I am waiting for the final release. Whew now I feel much better .
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Whew now I feel much better
Great!


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Old 01-15-2005, 02:20 AM   #3
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Can't agree about the Anoat levels being the worst; I've always considered the opening mission the least interesting (and therefore unwise of LEC to choose it as demo material).

That said, levels 4, 5 & 6 would probably have made an ideal demo trilogy.


Dark Forces Forever!
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Old 01-15-2005, 06:13 AM   #4
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The worst level to me was always the one with the spinning drum...some kind of fuel station , but the level number escapes me. Getting from the floor to the elevator to the spinning drum in time was a real pain in the azz!!

My favorite level was of couse......15.......time to go and kill the General, and blow up his ship!!

Honorable mention goes to Nar Shaddaa...particularly the Stormtrooper "Potty" and the "ewoks suck" grafitti.


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Old 01-15-2005, 11:02 PM   #5
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A few things. The original first level for DF was supposed to be on a Star Destroyer but the level was too big and complicated for most players. Keep in mind only Wolfenstein and Doom were out as FPS's at the time. The DF levels were considered huge and complex in their day. So it got watered down as a base where players wouldn't get so lost.

The level with the fuel station and the spinning bridge was the 12th level. There were also only 14 levels in DF, not 15.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benevolence
Keep in mind only Wolfenstein and Doom were out as FPS's at the time.
Untrue.

Blake Stone, Marathon and Rise of the Triad are just three examples of FPS games out before Dark Forces.
System Shock was also released earlier, although it is arguably not a 'pure' shooter.

I do think however that, apart from SS, DF was the first action game to offer a genuine step up from the DooM standard in multiple ways: gameworld design quality and variety, weaponry, story, interactivity, etc.
IMO LEC have never received full credit for that (just as they haven't for Jedi Knight, to a lesser extent).

I don't agree with your argument about the level complexity of DF though, in my view this has always been a stand-out attraction rather than a drawback and should have been taken advantage of.


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Old 01-22-2005, 09:53 PM   #7
Kurgan
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I disagree about JK. It was given lots of awards from critics and game magazines. Lots of repeated mentions in non-Star Wars gaming mags, many months, even years after it came out.

I don't know what other kind of "credit" JK should have gotten that it didn't. I mean sure, LA basically ignored our requests for more patches to fix the rampant cheating that developed. And they also screwed a lot of fans by making the MSN Gaming Zone the primary place to play the game (which recently removed support), but the hardcore fans never relied on that place to play anyway.

And sure, JK never had the numbers that Quake or Quake2 did, but keep in mind, JK never had dedicated server support like those games did, because of LA's (at the time) closed door policy on servers, based on some badly thought out notion of protecting the star wars liscense (thankfully now relaxed). Few games achieve that kind of long-term popular usage, though many try.

JK was a niche game online compared to the top competition, but it was devoted community, and there are still folks supporting it. The mod community got no official help (some unofficial) and thrived, considering the obstacles it had to overcome.

Dark Forces, great as it was, did have one major drawback compared to its competition... lack of Multiplayer. ALL of the major FPS games after Wolfenstein 3-D had some kind of multiplay, even if it was just 2 player modem-to-modem or serial cable.

And since FPS games were making multiplayer more popular (away from the MUD's and board/card games that were previously dominating the online gaming market), it simply missed that boat. It's still regarded as a classic, but not nearly as much as JK. Dark Forces had some polish as a SP game, but it was really hard and unforgiving. JK took FPS gaming to a new level, and it DID inspire other games in the areas of melee combat and "super powers" (see games like Die by the Sword, Rune, Heretic II, Deus Ex, etc).

And of course the biggest reward of all was a nice series of successful sequels, all of which were heavily hyped and anticipated.


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Old 01-23-2005, 12:03 AM   #8
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Well, in my opinion Jedi Knight still is my favourite game and still get played by me now and then. I still get kinda bugged when i look at my copy of Jedi Outcast: Jedi Knight II, wishing it would say Dark Forces III, and be a completely other game.

Jedi Knight was a really great game, and I hope it doesn't get 'forgotten' by LEC the way Dark Forces has been.

Has there been any mention on a
Dark Forces IV: Jedi Knight III: Jedi Outcast II: Jedi Master?

I hope they do a sequel.




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Old 01-23-2005, 03:40 AM   #9
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If we're talking about under-rated games in the JK series, then Mysteries of the Sith takes that award, hands down.

Firstly, not a lot of people played it, which never helps. But; in all honesty, I reckon it's the best game in the series. Whilst the level design in Jedi Knight was some of the best I have ever seen, MOTS was even better. Each level was completely different to the one before, with fresh challenges at every corner. If you look at some of the level design in later levels - the Sith temple - it is quite staggering, and I haven't seen a game since that has come close to that scale and ambition.

It was also nice to get out of the shoes of Kyle, and for the first time it introduced allies on your side - making you feel less like a one man army; but part of the New Republic. A lot of people criticise the story, I thought it was very good. It's nice how the game doesn't just have one story, but several, all woven together, leading to the ultimate climax.

I just thought it was an exceptionally well rounded gaming experience, which never received the recognition it deserved. It was one of the last really amazingly good games I can remember. They don't come along like that now, and playing MOTS reminds me of how good "the old days" were.



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Old 01-23-2005, 05:34 AM   #10
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MOTS

The biggest thing I liked about MOTS was the new weapons. The sniper rifle was nothing short of the best thing since sliced bread, not to mention it was a necessity to use the thing in order to make it through some levels. The seeking concussion missiles really helped out in a tight spot. AT-ST's went down while you hid around a corner. Who could ask for anything better?

I did find however, that some of the puzzles were extremely difficult at best...particularly the bridge on the hijacked rebel ship, and the ways into the Sith temple.

Graphically, it was d-shiznit!!!...'nuff said. I really enjoyed Ka-Pa the hutt's palace. I thought it made the best use of all of the different architectre styles, textures and lighting styles put together in a single level.

IF there are those of you who have not played this game...go get it, plain and simple!!


"Every time my fingers touch brain, I'm the guns of the navarone...I'm superfly TNT..."

- Jules Winfield , Pulp Fiction
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:35 AM   #11
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Well, gotta remember that JO and JA had pretty lame stories really. By lame I dont mean they were awful but that I never felt threaten by the odds, especially in JO. For some reason JK and MOTS had that Star Wars "magic" to it. Perhaps it was the engine that had that rustic, misterious look who knows, well I should know, I made 2 levels for it . I think what the "sith" engine has is that you can make things as big as you bloody feel like, it doesnt matter. The first 2 Nar Shaddaa are still my 2 favorite levels, the scale is amazing.
While Dark Forces had the best storyline of any Star Wars game up to date, simple but it works beatifully.


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http://darkforces.jediknight.net/
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:15 AM   #12
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I agree with you guys, Mots easily get forgotten... By me too. It never got a very big discussionrate and kinda got forgotten. I agree with everything you say exept the thing about stepping out of Kyle's shoes... Kyle = Goood...

Anyhoo, the story of Mots kinda brought together stuff that I really had wanted to see like new Hutts, the Eye Droid, Stormtroopers vs rebel soldiers and stuff. They really worked well. However, Jedi Knight still had that scale I really liked. Like getting into the big palace, with the bridge that you had to click, run over, click run up, click and then jump over, in time before the bridges disappeared again. The tight security with AT-ST's and Stormtroopers around this big building, it just really gave you feeling that someone had put their heart into this, to give it depth.

I also love the "going under the cities core in tunnels and ventilation systems" style that JK had. Like the fuel station, where ya had to go under everything and go between these huge doors in giant pipes with fuel in it, so if the Stormtroopers shot at it, the whole thing starting igniting everywhere, causing explosions everywhere. The Jedi Knight series is simply the greatest in my POV, and it's kinda sad that LEC allowed the last two games to become kinda crappy. Sure, it's always nice to see Kyle's face in an updated version, but they have to do an outstanding job to erase the Jason Court version outta my head...




"The dark side? I've been there! Do your worst!"

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Old 01-29-2005, 06:37 PM   #13
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This seems like a good place to admit that I, too, have only played through the demo once. Of course, this is only because I've been gone or too busy since before the demo came out. This is the same reason I haven't posted on the forums here since the demo came out. Then again, I really wouldn't be that busy if I could be a bit more efficient about getting things done. Maybe if I work on that I'll have enough time on my hands to join the mod team...or I can dream, at least.

I need to get around to playing MOTS sometime. I bought JK over eBay so I could get MOTS with it (LucasArts doesn't sell MOTS anymore, just JK), but I've only played through JK so far, not MOTS.

One of my favorite things about DF is its level design--you don't often see such creative level design these days. The puzzle-like elements set it apart from most other games.
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