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Old 04-01-2005, 03:10 AM   #1
Boba Rhett
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Exclamation Holowan Closure Discussion

Please keep any comments you have about Holowan's closure inside this thread.

I can only assume that many of you have questions about this. I know I would. I'll try and answer your questions with what little information I have at this point.


One suggestion I have to everyone at this time is that you all grab any mods that you've wanted but don't already have. I doubt they'll be easily available for much longer.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:24 AM   #2
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Oh my...
This is certainly shocking news. And a blow to the PC community. The pride and jewel of the SWK boards...done for? Indefinitely?
Quote:
Therefore, we hereby request that the forum known as Holowan Laboratories be immediately disabled and that contact information, including IP addresses, for the following members...
HOLY ****! They can do that!?



(And Rhett, this is one sick joke for April Fools.....so is it?) <_<;

EDIT: And RedHawke, sorry if I sounded like an ass.
EDIT2: This isn't a joke, is it?
EDIT3: Bah. It was.

Last edited by Derc; 04-01-2005 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:00 AM   #3
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If this is true, being it is April 1st and all this leaves a reasonable doubt to the authenticity, this would utterly suck...

Out of the blue a letter shows up from LA demanding Holowan Labs be shut down, and probably most of our sites as well...

LA knew Holowan Labs existed before now (Ergo this probably is an April Fools Joke, a good one too!), hell even Obsidian Entertainment used the freakin' Force Pike idea in TSL, from a Holowan Mod no less, all I have to say is WTF???

Who put the burr under their saddle all of a sudden? Or is this an evil plot by Boba Rhett and his elves to play the ultimate April Fools joke on us?... Hmm.

If this is true, I will never buy a LA product again, and I strongly suggest you all do the same... Unless this is a Joke then...

Edit: And no worries Derc!
Quote:
Originally posted by Derc
(And Rhett, this is one sick joke for April Fools.....so is it?)
It seriously is starting to feel like one, especially with T7nowhere creeping around the boards and not even a peep from him here...

Edit 2: I don't think Boba Rhett is actually that cruel and unusual! But I could be wrong... I seriously hope so!

But we will definately find out...


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Old 04-01-2005, 04:04 AM   #4
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I think I'm goin to kick my self in the nuts

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Old 04-01-2005, 04:48 AM   #5
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If this isnt a joke then this really sucks.
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:52 AM   #6
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Nice one, mods.

I almost had heartattack.

edit:
I think Boba Rhett just volunteered to be very special character in Holowan Arena mod.... heh he he he..

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Old 04-01-2005, 05:06 AM   #7
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Well I suppose I should say something but, I just don't know what to say....

I guess I'll have a bit more time on My hands now.
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:50 AM   #8
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Considering I just received this letter via e-mail (with a FedEx to arrive later today I assume). I'm beginning to wonder if it is an April Fools joke

Quote:
LucasArts Entertainment Company

P.O. Box 10307
San Rafael, CA 94912

[snipped fax & phone number - the last thing I need is for someone to get pissed and send them hate messages. For right now, they're not going to fine me. Don't screw that up for me.. at least]

April 1, 2005


[snipped - contained my name & address]



Re: Copyright and Trademark Infringement

Dear Mr. [snipped - my last name]:

Please be advised that LucasArts Entertainment Company has learned that you are making its copyrighted and trademarked materials (together with those of its affiliated companies Lucasfilm Ltd. and Lucas Digital Ltd.) available on the Internet, and that you have established one or more World Wide Web sites that purport to represent the Lucas companies. Please be advised further that such unauthorized uses of such materials constitute (among other things) copyright and trademark infringement and are actionable under state and federal laws.

LucasArts Entertainment Company, on behalf of itself and its parent and affiliated companies, hereby demands that you immediately cease and desist from any and all unauthorized use of it's proprietary property (or that of its parent or affiliated companies), and that you provide LucasArts immediately with written assurances that you will comply with this demand. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, LucasArts hereby demands that you immediately (i) shut down any and all World Wide Web sites or other Internet activities related to the Lucas companies and (ii) provide a written description to LucasArts of all such activities in which you have engaged to date.

This shall not be deemed a waiver of any claims at law or in equity which LucasArts Entertainment Company and/or its parent or affiliated companies may have against any party with respect to the foregoing. I look forward to your immediate response and cooperation.

Very truly yours,

[signature]

Robert S. Roden
In any case, I'd at least like to say, while I have the chance, that I've truly enjoyed the time I've spent here at the Forums. I'm really going to miss alot of you and the great discussions we've all shared over at Holowan.
I consider most of you as true friends and I hope we can at least continue the candid conversations in the future

*sigh* at some point in time, I've got to shutdown the mods section over at my site, so I'll tell everyone now, get'm while you can (hopefully PCGM will get to stay up, at least for a little while).

I'm going to go *sob* now

April Fools!


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Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 04-02-2005 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 06:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChAiNz.2da
I'm beginning to wonder if it is an April Fools joke

ChainZ, what's the IP in the header of that e-mail?
I didn't get anything.. but the message
looks familiar? (1995 )

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Old 04-01-2005, 06:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xcom
ChainZ, what's the IP in the header of that e-mail?
I didn't get anything.. but the message
looks familiar? (1995 )
Yeah, I thought that too when I started snooping

204.128.216.255

the connection is refused when trying to enter the site purely by IP...

But Google wasn't very re-assuring

April Fools!


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Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 04-02-2005 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 07:33 AM   #11
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umm, wow. holowan was the whole thing that got me onto the LF board to begin with. why does everyone up at LA have to be so stiff???

okay, maybe not everyone, but you know what i mean....

edit: and i had this whole James Bond pack in the works complete with new gun models and stuff. this really freakin bites.


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Old 04-01-2005, 07:39 AM   #12
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Well if this is true what does this mean to you modders out there that had mods in progress or recently finished? Will you release them or just scrap them?
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Old 04-01-2005, 07:42 AM   #13
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Lol, guys you (hopefully) really got me!


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Old 04-01-2005, 09:57 AM   #14
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WTF???

Holy ****! You modders think this is bad for you -- what about me, Fred and cchargin? We've been building these tools! I hope this is a freaking joke. I've disabled the modding tools at starwarsknights.com. I haven't gotten an email like you Chainz.2da, but that might be due to the filters I've set up. Goddamn it, I've been working for more than a year on tools -- imagine what you'd feel like if the work you've done for a year was suddenly made illegal. And I'm seriously regretting ever buying KotOR in the first place. I only hope I don't get slapped some civil suit. Maybe LucasArts is having a joke with us or some other punk? I'm not taking any chances with this ****. Maybe they're just going after modders? I haven't gotten a PM from you Rhett saying that I was named or anything.


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Old 04-01-2005, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gargant
Well if this is true what does this mean to you modders out there that had mods in progress or recently finished? Will you release them or just scrap them?
I don't think it's time to release anything. Keep a low profile...

...and no, Redhawke, this is not a bad joke. I am freaking out too: guess who's heads are going to fall first... I am looking at it with Rhett and we'll try to minimize damages as much as possible...
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:15 AM   #16
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I'll be finishing my mods, but I will not be releasing them. They will only be for my own personal use. That appears to be the way modding Lucasarts games will be in the future.

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Old 04-01-2005, 10:45 AM   #17
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I'd just like to know whether KSE is considered a mod or modding tool by LA. You'd think that one would okay wouldn't you?


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Old 04-01-2005, 11:13 AM   #18
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This MUST be a sick AFs joke, because they didn't stop us from modding before. JA< they RELEASED the tools! RC, they WILL Release teh tools! So why ONLY KotOR!? THIS IS SICKENING LA! VERY VERY SICKENING!


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Old 04-01-2005, 11:20 AM   #19
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WTF??!!!??? i'm sorry guys, but if LA knew about this for such a long time (and i'm sure they knew), then why the heck did they decide to do something about it now??? come on, now i'm sure some of you guys are trying to avoid legal action, and it could have been prevented with LA taking action a long time ago.

this only further cements my opinion that LA is a bunch of slack-***es that don't give a **** about the gaming community. sure this is a fan forum, but i'm sure most of you realize that its pretty much going to decay into nothing.

if this is how LA likes to treat their customers, then **** them too. i ain't buyin anything else they put on the shelves, no matter how good it is.

and again, i'm sorry about the flaming rant, but its the truth and it had to be said.


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Old 04-01-2005, 11:41 AM   #20
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Perhaps they got tired of hearing all those complaints and petitions about the cut material in K2 and all and the possible mods and they felt it was going out of control so they decided to set an example
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:56 AM   #21
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True Darth. They may fear us "Unlocking" the "cut" stuff, and maybe it has some secret in KotOR II and if you do it you get KotOR III or something. But really, maybe they don't want us getting that extra stuff... But why?


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Old 04-01-2005, 12:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by stingerhs
WTF??!!!??? i'm sorry guys, but if LA knew about this for such a long time (and i'm sure they knew), then why the heck did they decide to do something about it now???
I suspect that now there has been limited talk (as much as we've tried to prevent it) on these boards about porting material between games Lucasarts hs decided that things have gone too far.

Quote:
Originally posted by LukeKatarn
But really, maybe they don't want us getting that extra stuff... But why?
Since they are still assets owned by Lucasarts, they may end up in some form or another in a future product. Thus they wouldn't want that material being out with the public now.

In the end there are probably a bunch of reasons like that that Lucasarts has decided to enforce their policies now...

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Old 04-01-2005, 12:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
In the end there are probably a bunch of reasons like that that Lucasarts has decided to enforce their policies now...
It still pisses me off.


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Old 04-01-2005, 01:05 PM   #24
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WTF! This is so lame! Especially with Bioware being really leniant about mod discussion on their boards! I mean... this is so lame! Why now!?!? We should do somehting to fight this, this sucks so much!


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Old 04-01-2005, 01:39 PM   #25
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Fred Tetra, cchargin:

Do you guys follow the Supreme Court?

Here's something to keep our fingers crossed on.
http://www.technologyreview.com/arti...031105.asp?p=1


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Old 04-01-2005, 01:43 PM   #26
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This is, without even the shyest of a doubt, a joke. A good one too, you had me going. Even the SWKights website had it in their news, and every single forum here has it in the news, so what can I say? Nice one. I hope they reopen soon though.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:02 PM   #27
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No, as stated above, it's not a joke. This is serious. I know too well this type of letter and we certainly wouldn't joke about this kind of thing. I had a joke mod planned for SWK.com today but I didn't post it because of this crappy news.

I am currently reviewing the list of people involved and their mods. I'll be discussing it with Rhett later on today so we can decide of the proper course of action.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:15 PM   #28
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I understand where you're coming from, but the point is this is just all too perfect. Let's look at the facts shall we?

1. April Fools Day morning from 1AM to 2AM or around that hour, modifications are active and even moderators are freely discussing in that forum.

2. April Fools Day Morning...later: SWKnights seemingly recieves a letter of complaint on APRIL FOOLS DAY saying to close down the mods forum.

3. Almost everyone BUT STAFF are saying it's a joke. If it really is a joke on the part of SW Knights, all staff would be in on it and weould probably be TOLD to tell the members its a joke.

With those three facts, it's hard to bieleve this. If you're not joking, then whoever sent the letter probably is joking. It's just all too perfect. Now can you really tell me and the members of this forum, with your hand on a stack of the Trilogy on DVD box sets, that this is not a joke?
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlphaRob
Now can you really tell me and the members of this forum, with your hand on a stack of the Trilogy on DVD box sets, that this is not a joke?
I don't have the Trilogy DVD set with me right now, but if I tell you it's not a joke with my hand on Title 17 of the United States Code, Chapter 1 "Subject Matter and Scope of Copyright" and Chapter 5 "Copyright Infringement and Remedies" does that count?
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:04 PM   #30
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Okay, now assuming this is true, you realise this is a loose/loose situation for you.

If this is a joke, you realise you've made a large amount of the community angry, and they will be even more angry if this is a joke.

If this is not a joke, then you've still made tons of members angry, lost customers for LucasArts (I know I won't be buying any more material from LA), and since 80-90% of your members even joined just because of the Holowan section, you loose a lot of activity.

If I were you, and if this was a joke, I would just fess up now before you upset even more members. If this really isn't a joke, you won't be seeing me or many other members for a loooong time here.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:59 PM   #31
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Has anyone heard anything from Sergio at PCGM?


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Old 04-01-2005, 04:22 PM   #32
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I checked pcgamemods and there does not seem to be anything there. I have also been checking some of the other sites.


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Old 04-01-2005, 04:36 PM   #33
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This is too convienent to be anything but a joke, But Darth333 has never lied to me, so if she says it isnt, then it aint.
And that sucks.

But not modding wont stop me from coming here and chatting it up with you all.
I hope this is just a scare tactic so we'll stop. Hopefully they wont do anything beyond that. I just find it hard to believe LA can be so stupid. Here they have a large group of people practically dedicated to their work, Fans for life... and they do this?

And they do this just before releasing a movie? Talk about bad PR. This could get really ugly for LA.

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Old 04-01-2005, 04:49 PM   #34
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This freekin sucks! Just when I met a good friend here, it closes down, this is plain stupid. Hopefuly some of you will think about getting AIM, so we can chat in the future, if you do my screename is smalls2693/ or LordSmallz1. I am going to miss many here, All the moderators, Gsccc Chainz Darkkender etc. I am usually online, so hope to see you in the future. Now, i am going to cry.


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Old 04-01-2005, 05:12 PM   #35
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God I love being the voice of dissention...

If this is an April Fool's Day joke, kudos to its architects. Brilliantly done!

If this is not an April Fool's Day joke, then let's try to have some perspective. While I certainly feel for those that have devoted so much of their blood, sweat, and tears to creating the wonderful tools that have allowed us to persue this hobby, I think that it's reasonable to assume that LA will not persecute with the full extent of the law. Based on the information that has been provided to us, it looks like they just want us to stop.

We've known all along that modding, while tolerated (to whatever degree), is not sanctioned and that LA could "pull the plug" at any time. We all agreed to the EULA when we installed the game and we all willingly violated when we made the choice to mod. If LA has decided that enough is enough, that is their right and we have to take responsibility for our actions by honoring their request.

Does this suck? Yes. Am I bummed? You'd better believe it. Am I in hot water if this is for real? I'm betting on it. But in case you haven't noticed there are wars going on, people dying from preventable disease because they can't afford medicine, etc, etc. Is this really worth losing your cool? (Fred Tetra, Tk102, & cchargin excluded)

*steps off soapbox, puts on fireproof underwear, and prepares to be flamed*
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:37 PM   #36
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All good points Achilles, however that still does not explain why LucasArts allows and ENCOURAGES modding for other games, such as JA, but now decided to pull the plug on modding for KoToR?
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:51 PM   #37
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No one that posts on these boards is going to be able to answer that for you (assuming that this is legitimate). LA's rationale is unknown to us and is likely to remain that way
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:53 PM   #38
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@AlphaRob

You could have asked that same question the very day KotOR was released and Bioware forbade the discussions of modding.

I don't know, I'm still thinking KSE has got to be a legitimate utility regardless. I mean Bioware published the file formats so it's not like reverse-engineering or anything.


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Old 04-01-2005, 05:55 PM   #39
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It doesn't look like something that a group of attorneys would write, simply in the format and writing style it was written in.

Also, it seems fishy that after about 3 years of supporting and allowing modifications LA would close them down on APRIL FOOLS DAY of all days.

I'm sorry, but this is about as obvious of a joke as you can get. Still, my compliments to the person who had this idea. Bravo, a genius gag.
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Old 04-01-2005, 06:20 PM   #40
Com Raven
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There were in fact previous issues with mods and LucasArts properties, though I can't remember details (sorry, I am not very creative ).

However, after consultations with our resident lawyer (Darth333), we should be making an announcement regarding this soon.

Do however keep in mind that we are, popular as we might be, a small fansite and certainly don't have the means for a big legal fight like HardOCP had against Infinium Labs after their Cease&Desist.


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