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Old 11-02-2005, 06:09 AM   #41
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Personally, I dunno how anyone with a colour 2/12s away from white (on the 256 greyscale chart) can trust the man.

Anyway, if people can draw parallels between Star Wars and The Bush admin, there really is something wrong going on. The idea that the relationship between Star Wars and real wars is BS IMHO. You don't produce kids movies based on the execution of millions of people in the name of revenge, or hundreds of thousands in the name of oil etc, etc.


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Old 11-02-2005, 07:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Why do people come up with utter ***** like this? They must be taking drugs. I think a while ago I saw something on the internet where they were trying to prove that Yoda was Satan = .

Is everyone here anti-Bush or something?
Don't believe everything you read, that "yoda is satan" thing is a parody (much like the "bert is evil" joke).

Incidentally, if folks want to rant about the president, or whatever, there's the Senate Chambers forum which is a much better place for that.

This topic is about the supposed political messages in Star Wars (and the people promoting them).


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Old 11-02-2005, 11:09 AM   #43
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^Really? The thing I saw was some religious guy who seemed to be serious. They had a bunch of emails too, with people saying they were never going to watch star wars again. But if that was a gag...

I have no clue where I found it or how, unfortunately...
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:33 PM   #44
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Yes, it's totally a hoax. They went and picketed with signs and handed out fliers. It's just a "social experiment" they say, showing how gullible people are, and so they can make fun of the hate mail they get. It's generally over the top but "believable" in that it's very much in the style of folks who want to condemn pop culture as being satanic.

I am almost 100% I know which one you're referring to, and I could probably find it again if I wanted to. They play it like it's real, but it's not.

But don't feel bad, some people think Landover Baptist Church or The Onion are real too. Quite frequently in fact...


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Old 11-03-2005, 05:16 AM   #45
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The Onion is better than real news though, so I could almost allow it. Anyway, stupidity is a pandemic.


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Old 11-05-2005, 06:08 PM   #46
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Simple proof

I'll recap what was said and add my own tidbits. First off, as said earlier, you can make comparisons between Star Wars and any other leader/war in history. Second, if you really read between the lines in Star Wars, the movies could also be: anti-Judeo-Christian-Mulism, pro-life, pro-communism and, what the heck, anti-gay. I'll go into more details on this.

Jesus Christ (and some OT prophets) also discussed the "if you're not with me, you're against me," motto, so does that mean that Star Wars is anti-Judeo-Christian-Muslim too? Well, that'd make sense, since Lucas is a Buddhist.

Hmmm...notice that in Star Wars, Lucas does not endorse pre-martial sex, Anakin and Padme wait until they are married, and even though Padme lost her husband, she decides not to abort the babies.

As Palpatine gains strength and power in the Republic, more and more economic control becomes his. Notice, who the Sepratists where? Trade Federation, Banking Clan, etc. COMPANIES, capitalists! Uh, Bush is a capitalist, thus he can't be communist. Rather, it's flipped. "The insurgency," in the real world, have dictatorial leaders, and endorse socialism. In other words, the economic stances between Star Wars/real wars, are the EXACT opposite.

Finally, in episodes II and III, you hear mention that Anakin is forbidden to "have a WIFE." Hmmm...no mention of "life partner." In fact, throughout Star Wars, you only hear of STRAIGHT couples. Now, does this mean that Star Wars is anti-gay? Except of course, maybe C-3P0 and R2 had something going on.

Bottom line, no matter that you say, think, or do, Star Wars will always have some "hidden message" to it.


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Old 11-08-2005, 07:30 AM   #47
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How do I know you aren't being controlled by the force? :P

Yeah, I agree with you there. I think Lucas should just do a Tolkien and just shout, "THERE IS NO WAY MY WORK IS REPRESENTING 'THAT!'"


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Old 11-08-2005, 01:44 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JekRendar
I'll recap what was said and add my own tidbits. First off, as said earlier, you can make comparisons between Star Wars and any other leader/war in history. Second, if you really read between the lines in Star Wars, the movies could also be: anti-Judeo-Christian-Mulism, pro-life, pro-communism and, what the heck, anti-gay. I'll go into more details on this.

Jesus Christ (and some OT prophets) also discussed the "if you're not with me, you're against me," motto, so does that mean that Star Wars is anti-Judeo-Christian-Muslim too? Well, that'd make sense, since Lucas is a Buddhist.
Lucas is Buddhist? Where did you read that... I've never seen such a thing from any of his biographical info. Source would be nice. You may be getting him confused with Lawrence Kaseden (sp?) though who I heard was Buddhist, and he purposely contributed to much of the Buddhist influenced stuff about Yoda in ESB.

About Lucas's religion, it's rather vague. He was raised Methodist (and participated in Lutheranism in his youth). In interviews he's said he believes in "God" though he also uses Star Wars to illustrate his beliefs (not that he literally believes in the Force, but that it helps to illustrate what he feels about God and faith). It should be remembered though that the primary work we're talking about here was not produced entirely by Lucas himself, but he had other directors and writers helping him (only Star Wars itself and the prequels were controlled completely by him... though he did have a co-writer for AOTC, according to the credits).

Quote:
Hmmm...notice that in Star Wars, Lucas does not endorse pre-martial sex, Anakin and Padme wait until they are married, and even though Padme lost her husband, she decides not to abort the babies.
Which doesn't prove anything one way or another... Many religious people today permit pre-marital sex and abortion, while many also oppose them. Some do so against the teachings of their own faith, but other times it's their own leaders who allow these things.

Quote:
As Palpatine gains strength and power in the Republic, more and more economic control becomes his. Notice, who the Sepratists where? Trade Federation, Banking Clan, etc. COMPANIES, capitalists! Uh, Bush is a capitalist, thus he can't be communist. Rather, it's flipped. "The insurgency," in the real world, have dictatorial leaders, and endorse socialism. In other words, the economic stances between Star Wars/real wars, are the EXACT opposite.
Some have accused Lucas of being a socialist liberal. Of course there are many comparisons of the Empire to the nazis (Lucas even slips and calls the Imperials "Nazis" in one of the commentaries on the OT set). In a deleted scene for Star Wars, Biggs tells Luke that the Empire has "already started to nationalize commerce in the central systems" and speculates that Uncle Owen will soon be "just a tenant, slaving for the greater glory of the Empire."

While it's a bit of a stretch, a classic bit of rhetoric among western Democrats and other liberals is to label western conservatives and Republicans as "fascists" and compare them to the Nazis. I'm not saying Lucas is doing this, but the precedent exists in real life.

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Finally, in episodes II and III, you hear mention that Anakin is forbidden to "have a WIFE." Hmmm...no mention of "life partner."
Actually it never says wife that I recall. Obi-Wan just says "you've made a commitment to the Jedi Order, one not easily broken" and Padme says "love.. I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi." There's been some nonesense in interviews that sex wasn't forbidden for Jedi, only marriage, but whatever. Would it make sense for Jedi to have thousands of illegitimate children and mistresses (or boyfriends) running around? Maybe that's what the younglings are! (scandal conspiracy theory gears churning)

Lucas I believe once said that he patterned the romance in his films after old movies that showed kisses, but no actual sex.. vs. modern movies (at the time, 70's, 80's) tended to try to titillate audiences with bedroom scenes and nudity. Rather than beat the audience over the head that the two characters are "in love" by showing them sleeping together... but then he also wanted his movies to be for kids, and didn't feel such things were appropriate to show. I mean in all likelyhood Anakin and Padme did the nasty... but he doesn't show it.

Anyway, there you go.

Quote:
In fact, throughout Star Wars, you only hear of STRAIGHT couples. Now, does this mean that Star Wars is anti-gay? Except of course, maybe C-3P0 and R2 had something going on.
Good point. Some have said that SW must be anti-gay because it doesn't show homosexuals (barring any jokes about C3PO's demeaner), or complaining about how there aren't any "asian Jedi" or not enough female characters, etc. Rumor was that they got Billy Dee Williams to play Lando to avoid criticism that there weren't any black main characters (forgetting James Earl Jones since he was just doing voice acting). Some have argued that since Jesus or God is not explicitly mentioned, then Star Wars endorses a belief in the occult (forgetting any metaphorical interpretations of the mysticism in the movies). One could even try to argue that the Jedi endorse lying (since Obi-Wan twists the truth to Luke via the later movie's events) and assasination (Mace Windu). They might also say that the Jedi's stoicism is unhealthy (is that really a fair analysis of their philosophy?).

Quote:
Bottom line, no matter that you say, think, or do, Star Wars will always have some "hidden message" to it.
Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with your general statement (and rhetorical questions), only explaining a few bits in your examples!


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Old 12-06-2005, 01:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Well, seeing as I don't want to get in a Bush argument, I will resist from Force Crushing you . I am anti-idiot, but I am not anti-Bush. And no, that is not contradicting.
Then it is proven! Nothing is contradicting in this world...

As for the SW = Anti-Bush thing, its total BS. Gee can't people think of a more creative rumor?
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Old 12-07-2005, 07:53 AM   #50
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I hear that Jar Jar is a racist caricature. Discuss!


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Old 12-07-2005, 08:15 AM   #51
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Well, his accent is really "sterotypical Jamaican" unless you're one of those people who believes in sterotypes IMHO. I mean, how many people have talked to a Jamaican? They don't talk like that.

Saying that, as far as "backwards speak". I think Lucas just wanted everyone to have f-ed up ways of talking and that might have associations. It's kinda sad that we can label a whole group of people as being like Gungans!


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Old 12-07-2005, 11:13 AM   #52
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The **** is backwards speak? If you mean Yoda's speaking format, it's called formal speaking.


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Old 12-07-2005, 02:42 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Sith
The **** is backwards speak? If you mean Yoda's speaking format, it's called formal speaking.
Many formal speakers have I heard, and never spoken this way have they. Mine! Or I will help you not...


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Old 12-08-2005, 09:17 AM   #54
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I meant "mentally backwards". Formal speaking is posh. :P Unless you can convince me that the Gungans are intellectualls!


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Old 12-08-2005, 09:38 AM   #55
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Wesa no needin da naboo, deys a tinkin our brainsa so small.


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Old 12-08-2005, 09:49 AM   #56
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Yoda simply makes use of bad grammar. His speech isn't always backwards, so it's not like he's incapable (note the scene where he talks to Anakin in that closet in ROTS and gives him the "let go" advice).

You'd think of being around people who speak "perfect" english (or basic, whatever) for centuries would have taught him how to speak properly, but oh well. Maybe he's a bit senile... adds character.


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Old 12-08-2005, 10:33 AM   #57
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He's over 800 years old, he speaks how he was taught, formal speech.

Listen to Frank Oz's interview on the OT DVD.


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Old 12-08-2005, 02:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Sith
He's over 800 years old, he speaks how he was taught, formal speech.

Listen to Frank Oz's interview on the OT DVD.
I don't see how using backwards grammar constitutes "formal speech."

I've often heard the excuse that 'Galactic Basic' is not his native language (sort of like with Jar Jar) so he has some trouble with it. But you'd think that after 800 years of training Jedi he'd have adapted to the conventions of the official language of Coruscant... I mean if Celine Dion can mastered it in far less time...

Then we have that whole scene in ROTS where he speaks properly for quite a stretch. How is it "formal"? He's almost always talking privately with individuals, after all.

Anyway, can you tell us where on the OT DVD's this interview can be found? I don't feel like watching all 3 1/2 hours of Empire of Dreams again to find it (or worse, all 6+ hours of audio commentary), no offense!


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Old 12-10-2005, 01:37 AM   #59
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LOL! sometimes the insightful intelligence of people in this forum just amazes me.

/sarcasm off

I remember someone trying to compare Bush to Sauron in the LOTR. Jeez. . .


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Old 12-10-2005, 07:43 AM   #60
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Hey it's easy, they both want to kill us all! :P

It makes me glad not to be American, no one gives a fung about our "leaders".


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Old 12-10-2005, 10:42 AM   #61
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LOL! sometimes the insightful intelligence of people in this forum just amazes me.

/sarcasm off

I remember someone trying to compare Bush to Sauron in the LOTR. Jeez. . .
What's wrong with that? Every evil/dictator character in a fantasy movie is an allegory of Bush!


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Old 12-10-2005, 07:17 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
I don't see how using backwards grammar constitutes "formal speech."
It's based on old speech patterns from medival times, called Formal Speech, it's how the royals, and people speaking to them, would speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Anyway, can you tell us where on the OT DVD's this interview can be found? I don't feel like watching all 3 1/2 hours of Empire of Dreams again to find it (or worse, all 6+ hours of audio commentary), no offense!
It's in Empire of Dreams, around the bit when they're talking about making Yoda.


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Old 12-11-2005, 02:27 PM   #63
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Wow, how did I miss this? Amazing. Personally it sounds like BS to me (Yoda's speech is all over the place throughout the movies after all), but who knows.


Can you be a little more specific? What chapter stop or time reference is it at? I plan to watch the whole thing again one day, but I just don't have time, so a little closer to the mark would great. Thanks!


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Old 12-11-2005, 05:56 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Kurgan
What's wrong with that? Every evil/dictator character in a fantasy movie is an allegory of Bush!
Riiiiigggght.

Hey, I'm selling my beachfront condo in Tucson, Arizona. I'll throw in the deed to the Grand Canyon if you buy now.


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Old 12-21-2005, 11:11 PM   #65
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pov

It all depends on your point of view. I'm not a neocon or a lib and I think that if it was truely Lucas' intent he would fail miserably just like the rest of the ideologues in hollywood.

except for Mel and Depp perhaps....

It's pretty sad to see our country so divided that it's leaked into star wars discussion forums, I talk about star wars to avoid that stuff!
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:14 AM   #66
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I'm neutral, gives me the freedom to realise everyone else is a jackass to some extent.


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Old 12-23-2005, 06:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
It's pretty sad to see our country so divided that it's leaked into star wars discussion forums, I talk about star wars to avoid that stuff!
Not divided, just some people have nothing better to do than read subliminal messages that are not there. The internet has exacerbated people's crackpot theories.


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Old 12-28-2005, 04:11 PM   #68
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when 800 years you have been around...how you wish you will speak. we sometimes put to much thought in how someone says something and very little into what they are saying.


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Old 12-30-2005, 05:46 AM   #69
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I support most anything anti-Bush, but I just don't see the connection. It's inconclusive.
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Old 01-01-2006, 02:37 AM   #70
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People really need to stop bashing the president. Whether people agree with his views/actions, what good does bashing him do? None.

I don't know whether or not I think Star Wars is "anti-Bush," but it's my favorite film series so I'm not worried about it.


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Old 01-01-2006, 08:47 AM   #71
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Could argue "what's the point of voting", but I'm an apathist, so what do I know?

As for Ep 3, love the beginning, love the end, a bit "meh" to everything else.


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Old 01-01-2006, 12:49 PM   #72
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It could've been better but I'm satisfied with the outcome.


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Old 01-06-2006, 08:21 PM   #73
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well whoever started this papeltine Bush thing is just trying to make him look bad
just like all of the media



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Old 01-06-2006, 11:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
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well whoever started this papeltine Bush thing is just trying to make him look bad
just like all of the media
Maybe it has to do with maybe everyone hating Bush... But thats just my opinion =-P. Plus Bush uses fear to get support from the American public and so does Sidious a little bit.
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:01 AM   #75
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its the medias falt



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Old 01-07-2006, 09:18 AM   #76
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Star Wars is not anti-Bush, but if it was, I'd like it a lot more.

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Old 01-07-2006, 12:35 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Death
its the medias falt
Republicans these days
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:40 PM   #78
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i am not gonna get in the political fight but people gotta stop rippin bush apart
and they gotta stop makin wild rumors like papltine was an efigy of bush

Ya right ya lefteys



"bring me that horizon..."
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Old 01-07-2006, 03:35 PM   #79
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Don't you think if there was no reason to rip on bush we would? And yes the whole Palpatine Bush thing is really stupid.
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Old 01-07-2006, 03:44 PM   #80
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It's not anti-Bush, it's anti-war. Something that's not such a bad thing now is it.

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