Darth Plageus and Darth Sidious

[Jeff]

I think he made it one of those things that you have to read into a little bit before you can actually understand it. After I saw TPM, I thought that the prophecy was wrong and Luke was the chosen one, but after watching RotJ some more I realized that the prophecy really was true, and Anakin was indeed the chosen one.

[TK-8252]

Apparently you don't know what the prophecy is.

Did Luke have a father? Yes, it was Anakin. Therefore he is NOT the Chosen One, period. The Chosen One is concieved by the Force.

And Luke didn't kill Sidious. It was Vader who chose to kill Sidious, not Luke. Luke was too busy getting his ass fried while he's lying on the floor screaming.

[The Source]

Originally Posted by Darth Moeller

I think he made it one of those things that you have to read into a little bit before you can actually understand it. After I saw TPM, I thought that the prophecy was wrong and Luke was the chosen one, but after watching RotJ some more I realized that the prophecy really was true, and Anakin was indeed the chosen one.

I will watch 'Return of the Jedi' again, and see if anything has changed for me.

[d5c]

what is that sopoused to mean

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!#@$? BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lynk Former]

d5c, if you don't have anything constructive to add to a thread then don't post at all.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, Anakin is the chosen one in that he brings balance to the force. Ok sure that is quite a bit of Nihilism involved, but still.

What the Jedis don't see is that they are actually causing unbalance to the force as much as the sith with their own extremeist view.

Anakin cleanse both sides by Taking down most Ancient Minded Jedi Masters and one of the most powerful Sith Orders(well, technically things like Naddists are Sith too).

In a way, Anakin is The End for a New Beginning.

Luke is just starting on a new page.

[Prime]

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired

What the Jedis don't see is that they are actually causing unbalance to the force as much as the sith with their own extremeist view.

Anakin cleanse both sides by Taking down most Ancient Minded Jedi Masters and one of the most powerful Sith Orders(well, technically things like Naddists are Sith too).

This is incorrect.

[TK-1818]

Notice how the prophecy is said, "One who will destroy the Sith, and bring balance to the Force."
Anakin obviously knew the prophecy and himself was told that he was the chosen one so he did fufill the prophecy in reverse. He brought balance to the Force by bringing out the Sith (Because clearly the light side had the upperhand during the PT so Jedi-Jedi + Sith-Sith = 0) and then about say 10-20 years later destroyed the Sith. Thus in turn making no sence to anything after that such as the Jedi Knight series, etc.

[Astrotoy7]

hehe... I always thought "balance" was a inappropriate term. When something is balanced, you have equal propoertions of opposing entities/amounts .. If there are no sith, it surely isnt a balance. A word like "cleanse" the force is more appropriate, though perhaps not very PC

mtfbwya

[El Sitherino]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

hehe... I always thought "balance" was a inappropriate term. When something is balanced, you have equal propoertions of opposing entities/amounts .. If there are no sith, it surely isnt a balance. A word like "cleanse" the force is more appropriate, though perhaps not very PC

mtfbwya

I think the "balance of the force" goes back to Lucas' inspiration by asian cinema and history. Lots of martial practices use the term "Balance" in a sense of self-harmony rather than "equal amounts".

[kotorfan84]

Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp

However, Luke pulled the trigger. Luke convinced Vader to turn from the Darkside. Luke's actions brought balance to the force by convincing Vader to come back to the light. Luke confronted the Sith, and took action to bring an ending to the Darkside.

no Anakin was the chosen one, George Lucas even said it in one of the interviews on the ROTS DVD. Yes Luke played a major role in it, but in the end Vader made the choice.

[Darth_Extas]

Very True Kotorfan. I as well would believe that it was up to Anakin to decide whether to end his son's life or to end the his life as well as Sidious's. So in fact the proficy came true ending the dark side of the force... for a certain amount of time, remember Palpatine gets reborn after the Battle of Endor. So the Prophicy may have been wrong although it as well could have been right.

[Point Man]

Sorry to resurrect an old, dead thread, but in answer to this question

Originally Posted by Darth Smaug

Is darth Sidious/Palpatine/The Emperor the apprentice of Darth Plageus ???

"It is unclear how Palpatine fell under the mentorship of the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis, and little is known of Plagueis's (sic) own career...Sidious killed Darth Plagueis in his sleep. The work necessary to create a Force-conceived child continued, however. It is unclear whether Plagueis had initiated the process before his death, or whether Sidious instead implemented his former master's plan for his own dark purposes...On Tatooine, the slave Shmi Skywalker had given birth to a child more powerful in the Force than any other in history--the apparent product of forbidden research initiated by Darth Plagueis and taken up by Darth Sidious."
Wallace, Daniel, & Anderson, Kevin. (2005). Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology. New York: Del Rey. p. 32.

So, according to this source (debate among yourselves whether you choose to believe it--I do), not only was Sidious the apprentice of Plagueis, but Anakin was the result of their search to create life through the Force.

[†Saint_Killa†]

So this explains why Darth Sidious wanted Anakin to go darkside.

[Darth Macca]

Sidious was the apprentice of Darth Plageuis - FACT.

Here's the proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

[Darth_Terros]

Originally Posted by Darth Macca

Sidious was the apprentice of Darth Plageuis - FACT.

Here's the proof...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

Wiki doesnt = fact

But anyway yes Palpatine was his apprentice its mentioned in the Labirynth of evil book and the dark lord book

[Darth Alec]

Anakin was the chosen one, no jedi+no sith= balance. Then Luke (who used both sides) came and made a new jedi order, wich also uses both sides of the force.

[Darth_Terros]

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Anakin was the chosen one, no jedi+no sith= balance. Then Luke (who used both sides) came and made a new jedi order, wich also uses both sides of the force.

Thats not quite right

[Foshjedi2004]

Jacen Used both Sides. Not Luke.

[Prime]

Originally Posted by Darth_Terros

Wiki doesnt = fact

This can't be stressed enough.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Anakin was the chosen one, no jedi+no sith= balance.

No, no Sith = balance.

[Darth Alec]

How can one large side = balance? Balance is when both sides are = (can't spell it ).
And Luke had to use his hate to defeat Vader, then returned to the lite side.
And no sith= balance was what the jedi thought, not what it actually was.

[TK-8252]

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

How can one large side = balance? Balance is when both sides are = (can't spell it ).

You're using balance in the literal sense of the word.

Balance in the prophecy refers more to stability; the Sith are a force of instability and must be eliminated in order to maintain balance.

[Darth Macca]

What does balance mean then? Why would who let Anakin be trained? The Jedi trained him because they thought he would destroy the Sith. Also remember that the Jedi council did not want to train Anakin. Obi took it upon himself to train him and did not let Anakin go through the proper steps of first being trained by Yoda. Every step of Anakin's training did not follow the proper steps set by the council. The Sith wanted him trained because they knew that the Jedi had misread the prophecy and that by them training him they were sealing their own fate. They also knew that if the force were in balance that would mean less Jedi. Which would mean it would be easier to take over, which they did.

[MachineCult]

Originally Posted by Darth Macca

What does balance mean then? Why would who let Anakin be trained? The Jedi trained him because they thought he would destroy the Sith. Also remember that the Jedi council did not want to train Anakin. Obi took it upon himself to train him and did not let Anakin go through the proper steps of first being trained by Yoda. Every step of Anakin's training did not follow the proper steps set by the council. The Sith wanted him trained because they knew that the Jedi had misread the prophecy and that by them training him they were sealing their own fate. They also knew that if the force were in balance that would mean less Jedi. Which would mean it would be easier to take over, which they did.

You obviously don't understand.
The word "balance" in the prophecy is not to be taken literally, the force is in balance when there is only light, like TK said.
The Jedi did want Anakin to be trained in the end. Yoda to Obi-wan: "Agree with you the council does..."

[Darth Alec]

But that's from the jedi point of wiew, the sith might have the part that balance was without jedi's, and together meaning no jedi and no sith.

[Darth_Terros]

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

But that's from the jedi point of wiew, the sith might have the part that balance was without jedi's, and together meaning no jedi and no sith.

It was a JEDI prophecy of course its from their view

[MachineCult]

Yeah, Darth Alec there is no Sith prophecy.

[Darth Alec]

For all we know yeah, but I did say might.
I still beleve that the force is like YIN-YANG, that all sides must be equall.

[Darth Smaug]

My thread is getting quite populair.
Plagues is the master of sidious.
I think it's useless to keep discussing this.

[JMAS]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

hehe... I always thought "balance" was a inappropriate term. When something is balanced, you have equal propoertions of opposing entities/amounts .. If there are no sith, it surely isnt a balance. A word like "cleanse" the force is more appropriate, though perhaps not very PC

Not necessarily. When a person has a mental disorder they are considered "unbalanced" and once they get help, whether through medicine or counceling help they are considered a well-balanced individual again. The healthy community says we should eat a balanced diet. This doesn't meant equal parts of each food group. It means the proper amount of each. They Jedi were in harmony with the Force. They were guided by it, and they used it's power only when necessary. They respected life which creates the Force.

The Sith however were not so. They drew on the force, they had no respect for life and the simbiosis of life and the Force. They were like a cancer on the force, which thinking in terms of health, threw the Force out of balance.

[Redtech]

Of course, this is from the Jedi point of view! I mean, Cancers actually "survive" better than the host organism. But that's biology for you!

[Kurgan]

Ah, but when the host dies... so does the cancer, right? They're just malfunctioning cells, after all, not like a virus.

[Redtech]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Ah, but when the host dies... so does the cancer, right? They're just malfunctioning cells, after all, not like a virus.

Pretty much the same way that a fetus will die if the mother does first.

I don't really see as cancer cells as being "malfunctioning," more like "no one's told you to gain immortality!"

Viruses are alien "cells" that don't really care for the welbeing of the host although some do have mechanisms to prevent it from dying when it's not convenient.

In a force sense, referring to the dark side literally like a cancer would mean that you'd have "Yurzon Vonged" the force out of existance by destroying the Sith. One view I thought was interesting is that Luke is not really a true Jedi so he's more of a well-balanced individual.

[Darth Alec]

he's not really a jedi, he does use both sides of the force

[Redtech]

<The Oracle>

Bingo!

</The Oracle>

[Prime]

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Balance is when both sides are = (can't spell it ).

The Force is not a teeter totter.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

I still beleve that the force is like YIN-YANG, that all sides must be equall.

You can believe that if you want, but we already know that it isn't true from the movies and other sources.

The yin-yang theory causes the moveis to not make any sense.

[Lord Valarian]

Originally Posted by Darth Smaug

Is darth Sidious/Palpatine/The Emperor the apprentice of Darth Plageus ???

According to the databank at starwars.com he was...

Originally Posted by StarWars Databank :: Darth Sidious

Behind a curtain of secrecy lurked Darth Sidious, a mysterious Sith Lord and puppet-master of the tumultuous events that brought an end to the Republic. The Sith order had been extinct for a millennium, yet somehow, two survived -- the Master Darth Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Sidious. Plagueis, the wise, was an adept of some of the most arcane and unnatural applications of the Force. As Sidious described, Plagueis had uncovered a path to immortality through the manipulation of the dark side of the Force. Plagueis could, it was said, coax the midi-chlorians present in all living cells to create life from nothingness.

But for a Sith, immortality was a futile pursuit. The secretive Sith order counted upon the death of a master and the rise of an apprentice to further itself. True to tradition, Sidious killed Plagueis upon learning his Master's secrets. It was then that Sidious took an apprentice, who would eventually become Darth Maul. Maul would be Sidious' blunt instrument, his deadly weapon to carry out his plans while he remained in the shadows, conspiring to take over the Republic in its waning years.


http://www.starwars.com/databank/cha.../darthsidious/

It would seem to me that when he was talking about him in the movie, he was telling the truth

[TK-8252]

Valarian, I hope you read the thread before posting, because if you did then you'd know we've already established that.

[Darth Alec]

How does that make the movies make no sence?
With both sides of the force exterminated, only luke was left, and he used both sides.

[TK-8252]

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

How does that make the movies make no sence?
With both sides of the force exterminated, only luke was left, and he used both sides.

Was Luke a Jedi or a Sith?