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Old 01-28-2006, 12:08 PM   #41
arkodeon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
The army was made for the Republic, not the Jedi.
Yes, hence the phrase "Grand Army of the Republic."

As someone else mentioned, it is hinted in the game Battlefront 2 that the clones were trained to be watchful of the Jedi, that they would indeed betray the Republic one day.

Hence the words "The time has come." by Palpatine. I really do think the Clones were the good guys in all this, but were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 01-29-2006, 11:47 AM   #42
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Personally, I reckon the CIS were the better. It's called "Regime change" by modern day standards. You see a problem, you use force to take what is rightfully yours. A valid and correct tactic used by democratic nations for centuries.


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Old 01-29-2006, 03:24 PM   #43
Kurgan
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Was it really? (and I assume you're counting the United States as a "democracy" even though that is also debatable) I thought for centuries it was rather the idea of conquest. You fight your enemy and either you win independance (if you're a colony or something) or you conquer your enemy and they become part of you.

It's the cold war idea that it's suddenly not okay to conquer people anymore, but rather do a "regime change" where you take out their leadership or government and replace it with somebody you like better. Somebody who's "friendlier" and will trade with you, not attack, etc. Otherwise for example we've have turned Afghanistan and Iraq into US territories. Instead we're trying to just make sure they become "allies" and trade with us and vote with us, etc. At least that was supposedly the goal, which has yet to be fully realized (especially in the case of Afgahnistan).

The American colonies rebelled against Britain, but they didn't, for example, try to assasinate King George and get Ben Franklin installed as the new monarch across the pond. The Southern Confederacy in the US tried to break away and form their own country. Despite the fact that John Wilkes Booth was a Southern sympathizer, the Confederate strategy was NOT to assassinate Abraham Lincoln and install a new "Confederacy friendly" president in the North.

Historians don't always agree, but if you're going to say "centuries" I think you'd be wrong. WW2 ended only 60 years ago!

Did the CIS have a right to leave the Republic? Certainly. Of course the entire war was a lie. The leaders of both sides sacrificed their people in order to gain their conspiracy of power as it was planned from the beginning. It would be like if Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin and Hitler got together and said "hey guys, let's plan a war with each other in order to take over the world!"


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Old 01-30-2006, 09:02 AM   #44
Redtech
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I've only skimmed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy but it's pretty interesting stuff, it's where I get my "centuries" comment from. As for "conquest," I don't want to argue the creation of an "American Empire". I'm not qualified for those kinds of debates, although I suppose "conquest without domination" is pretty much how the British Empire ruled most of their colonies from what I know. Could argue that with the establishment of strong military positions that Iraq and Iran are "colonies".

Anyway, I doubt the founding fathers and the resulting US Civil war were in a position where they could have offed the leaders of the opposing side. Intelligance was far too slow, but nowadays, it's so common for people to dissapper, it's unusual for people to protest.

And to loop back to Star Wars, well, ultimately, the whole thing is a ruse, but in response to your WW2 leader comment, nowadays, the media has more power in British politics than our own politicians. I feel the "ex-colonisers" need some more money in their pocket IMHO. Where's Grievous when you need him!


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