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Old 06-03-2005, 06:42 PM   #1
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Is it all a lie?

During one of my playtroughs of KotoR 2 I once found a headband named the Rakatan Band. Its description can be found here:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarsk...dgear.php#null
I was wondering, could this mean the Rakata did not build the Star Forge, but only took credit for building it? If so, then who built it? The True Sith?
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:11 AM   #2
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Weird...

I don't know what to say. That just contradicts everything in kotor 1. Obsidian seems to have done that a lot in kotor2.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:08 AM   #3
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@Palpatine_dc:

It could mean that, however it's more likely that once the Rakata tried to rejoin the galaxic scene, everyone took their story for BS. I think that the devs made it pretty clear that the Rakata were the ones responsible for the Star Forge.

@AngryFan:

If the Rakata attempted to reenter galactic politics after the events of KotOR, how well do you think their story would have been received? "Oh so YOU'RE the Rakata?!". Probably not. Does the item description sound contradictory now?

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Obsidian seems to have done that a lot in kotor2.
WTF are you talking about? I'd love to see you back this one up.
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Old 06-04-2005, 09:46 AM   #4
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Achilles

Calm down man. We don't need to be fighting over a simple comment.

The description of the band says pretty clearly that the Rakata are just primitives who BSed their way into galactic society. But you're probably right by saying that the galaxy just doesn't believe them. Anywhooo...

The only thing I can really about Obsidian changing stuff is what they did with Reven. Kotor1 vilianizes Revan, and Kotor2 makes him into a hero who went to the darkside to "prevent a greater evil". I know that's not exactly a lot to prove my point, but it's just what I feel.

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Old 06-04-2005, 01:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by AngryFan
We don't need to be fighting over a simple comment.
Who's fighting? You made a weakly supported, blanket statement and I asked you to back it up, which you didn't. No fighting required.
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Old 06-05-2005, 02:47 AM   #6
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Old 07-31-2005, 02:43 PM   #7
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Revan was portrayed in K1 as an evil dark lord cause well he was I see what your saying though with Kreia filling your head with all those higher purpose type stories she blathers on about endlessly.

I think the reason they put Revan doing what he did right before TSL in making him "leave" and "seek out the ancient sith empire" just SCREAMS of him coming back in KOTOR III with the ancient sith or some such. They make many many references in TSL (I think) to clue us in on what III will sorta be like.


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Old 08-03-2005, 04:42 PM   #8
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AngryFan, I thought the game's depiction of Revan altered in accordance with your responses about Revan? Oh and yes, I can't wait to see this "ancient Sith empire" in KOTOR III. There are a lot of references, most of 'em right at the end..
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:50 AM   #9
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It seems to me that most people in these forums have the tendency to assume that whatever information one gathers in the game is absolutely truth and if it contradicts anything it is a dev mistake. While this makes sense to some things, it doesn´t to others. If a character says something, I assume it to be his words, not the devs and certainly not a given truth. Adding to Achilles possible explanation, I would add that "The origin behind the item's name is unknown, but rumor has it...". It could be that the Rakata made those headbands and the deceiving race is another. Subjectivity is apparently a good strategy when making complex games for complex fans.
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Old 08-24-2005, 11:00 PM   #10
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First, on the Rakatan Band: it said it was built as a "defense against an ancient species of" alien BS'rs... I think it's a lot like the Gand Silencer, where it is described as "unclear whether this item was designed by the gand, or to silence the gand." Perhaps the Band can be figured either way. It is unclear whether this is to defend against the Rakatas, or built by the Rakatas.
Second, on your supposed accusation of Revan being presented as Evil/Hero: I always understood that Revan was supposed to be a great hero who went for what he believed was a greater good, but in doing so, fell. And I believe the second doesn't really focus on after the fall so much as before the fall. Afterall, Revan, like so many great leaders of the past, had many admirable aspects, even for a bad guy. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're good or bad, a guy that can command that much respect... I think it was merely a matter of a shift in focus. Does that make sense?
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Old 08-25-2005, 12:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Who's fighting? You made a weakly supported, blanket statement and I asked you to back it up, which you didn't. No fighting required.
You seem to have been in a bad mood for a while.

Maybe AngryFan assumed you knew what he was talking about - KOTOR II does contradict quite a few things in KOTOR I. I'm surprised you didn't know.

And just to prove my statement isn't "a weakly supported blanket statement", here are a few examples:

Kreia talking about how Revan became the Dark Lord out of neccessity to prevent a greater evil.

Kreia summarizes KOTOR I by saying "As all Sith do, without a strong enemy, the Sith turned on each other. Revan escaped the Jedi and returned to finish Malak... and that was the end of the Jedi Civil War."

HK saying (even if Revan was on the Dark Side) "He developed qualities such as mercy, compassion, and even love for others".

Multiple references to how the Mandalorians could have done more damage to the Republic than the Sith if they were left unopposed.


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Old 08-25-2005, 09:21 PM   #12
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Those examples aren’t really contradictory at all, just undisclosed tidbits, add-ons, or generalizations. Really, K2 just cast the happenings of K1 into a new light, so to speak.

For instance, we don't really know what went on with DS Revan after K1. He could have easily developed the emotions Kreia mentioned (though DS Revan could have had a romance with Bastila). Also, we never get complete info on why Revan actually went to the dark side. We simply get the Jedi's point of view as to how it happened. What Kreia said could be totally true.

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Old 09-17-2005, 10:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi
I think the reason they put Revan doing what he did right before TSL in making him "leave" and "seek out the ancient sith empire" just SCREAMS of him coming back in KOTOR III with the ancient sith or some such. They make many many references in TSL (I think) to clue us in on what III will sorta be like.
I think KotOR III will probably be based on your character being sent on a mission by the new Jedi Council to find Revan. It will probably do the same thing KotOR II did to find out Revan's allignment and gender from the first game, and probably do the same kind of thing to find out about the Exile (if he/she survived the explosion of Malachor's core).
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Old 09-19-2005, 04:16 AM   #14
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Now please stop having a go at Achilles, the only ones that need to lighten up are the people that are complaining about him.



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Old 09-19-2005, 04:45 AM   #15
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^^^^
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Old 10-02-2005, 09:30 PM   #16
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I think Achilles is right in that the Rakata tried to re-eneter the galactic government, and when they told people about their past, people didn't believe it.
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Old 10-02-2005, 11:11 PM   #17
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I was wondering, could this mean the Rakata did not build the Star Forge, but only took credit for building it? If so, then who built it? The True Sith?
I guess from reading the item's description (although I've never read it in game) it's crazy.

There's no way that could be true from what I can see. The "Raks" are carved on a few of the monuments you find when looking for the star maps. I believe you see one or two broken statues inside of the dragon cave on Dantoonie. You do understand the "Raks" language when you get to the unknown world BUTthe droid on Dantoonie was only programmed to speak the "slave" languages. To the best of my memory it spoke: SandPeopleEESE, Selkath & Wookie only to you entering the tomb on Dantoonie.

The storyteller of the Sand People also tells you of the ancient race that turned Tatoonie (once like Dantoonie) to glass when they rose up against them in ancient times.

Plus the hologram on the wookie homeworld is also of the "Raks" species.

Somewhere out there in the world is a designer who probably used to work for BioWare, got fired, went to work for Obsidian and then found out they were gonna do KOTOR2. He got all smart and put that in...lol That's my guess...lol


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Old 10-03-2005, 04:42 AM   #18
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I think this is just another example of K2 ripping K1 to bits.

K2 turns K1 into a totally pointless exercise. It also paints Reven in a far worse light, not a better one. In K1 Reven is the fallen knight, a hero who has been corrupted by the actions he took to save the galaxey. When you talk to Candarus he explains how Reven beat his people, by leaving uniportant planets undefended so as to make others impregnible. Millions on the Outer Rim would have died in order for Reven to complete his goals. So this is how Reven begins to fall, by sacrificing the few for the many and hardening his heart against thier suffering.

In doing what needed to be done Reven corrupts himself, he tells himself that he must do these things yet still every statigic sacrifice is a sacrifice of part of his humanity.

An example of the kind of decisions Reven had to make is given to you on Kashyyrk. If you answer the first tactical question correctly you get the option. "Ending the war would save millions of lives."

This is the Reven of K1, corrupted by the actions he is forced to take. In K2 Reven went to the Mandalorian Wars in order to split the Jedi, recruit people to his cause, turn them to Sith and also to find the Star Forge. Reven went to the wars with a premeditated desire to destroy the Republic, so he was already fallen.

This is my MAJOR gripe with K2, character assassination.


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Old 10-03-2005, 03:31 PM   #19
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He went to war so he could seize the weak republic as his own, and thus strengthen it for the war he felt was coming. He fell to the dark side out of necessity. The star forge factors in later.

Like I said, OE didn't "ruin" any of the characters, they just used a very, very, very different perspective on the whole matter.

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Old 10-03-2005, 04:12 PM   #20
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^^^

My problem with that was that it made Revan a bit too much into Super Revan, like he could do no wrong.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:29 PM   #21
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Eh, I don't know. We really aren't given enough insight on what really happened in order to get a decent grasp on the situation. We'll just have to wait until K3 for things to fill out.

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Old 10-04-2005, 04:11 AM   #22
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I don't believe he fell to the dark side so that he could be strong enough to stop the Sith. I think Obsidion dismantled Bioware's Reven deliberatly. Either way I think that the idea that Reven engineered the whole war, leeving the Council and becoming a Sith just to fight more Sith is patently ridiculous. The masters knew something else was beyond known space, so he could just have told them.

Face it, in K2 Reven is just a Sith, no trace of the "fallen knight."


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Old 10-04-2005, 06:45 AM   #23
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Does it matter? It's largely Kreia's story. We know already that she manipulates and lies to you. Why shouldn't she on Revan? She wants you to help him do whatever he's got to do, after all.



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Old 10-04-2005, 02:38 PM   #24
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Thats a totally different question. Personnally, given the canon ending to K1 I find it very difficult to believe Reven would have left the Hawk to Kreia, which makes me ask how she got hold of it.


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Old 10-04-2005, 03:08 PM   #25
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You're speculating on all of this. We really don't know anything. Like I said, we should wait until K3 when the questions are answered.

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Old 10-05-2005, 05:30 AM   #26
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I don't believe any of these questions will be answered in K3.


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Old 10-05-2005, 12:53 PM   #27
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So how can it be said to be Knights of the Old Republic III?

Also, how can Kreia be a different matter when she is central to the story!



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Old 10-05-2005, 02:08 PM   #28
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I was disscussing the way Reven is presented in K2, whether Kreia was telling the truth about Reven or not is a different issue because the devs present it as truth.


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Old 10-05-2005, 03:08 PM   #29
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I don't believe any of these questions will be answered in K3.
Huh. Then K3 is going to be a very interesting game.

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Old 10-05-2005, 05:22 PM   #30
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Yeah.


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