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Old 08-02-2006, 04:59 AM   #241
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JK4 Confirmed? If any of you live in the UK. Check out Channel 4 Teletext page 309. Eventually you'll see a question about a new Jedi game possibly coming out next year


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Old 08-02-2006, 12:02 PM   #242
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And if you don't have it... just wonder what it said, right? C'mon, share!


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Old 08-02-2006, 12:40 PM   #243
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Dom_152, its just a new jedi game right? Not a jedi knight game?


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Old 08-02-2006, 01:40 PM   #244
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Yeah, it just says a new Jedi game, not Jedi Knight. Heres hoping though!
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:45 PM   #245
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Yeah just a Jedi game. Also if you have a look at some videos on the LucasArts website you can briefly see footage of what looks like a new Jedi Kngiht game.


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Old 08-02-2006, 02:59 PM   #246
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Wow, I'll have to check that out later. Got a direct link though?


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Old 08-02-2006, 03:08 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom_152
Yeah just a Jedi game. Also if you have a look at some videos on the LucasArts website you can briefly see footage of what looks like a new Jedi Kngiht game.
You're gonna need to give a link, because I see nothing on LucasArts that would appear as a Jedi Knight game.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:13 PM   #248
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http://download.lucasarts.com/e32006/corporate_320.mov

It's a long one but there are glimpses of some Jedi action and if you look at some of the screens in the background you can see some stuff.


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Old 08-02-2006, 03:29 PM   #249
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I still can't find anything in that clip. Sorry to pee on your parade man, but it seems like it's just wishful thinking on your part.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:50 PM   #250
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They are just talking about Force Unleashed again.. aren't they? Which has already been mentioned in this thread.



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Old 08-02-2006, 10:43 PM   #251
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They could be talking about knights 3 which would be awsome.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:28 AM   #252
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it for Xbox 360
go here and click "High-Res"
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/8...67/vids_1.html



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Old 08-03-2006, 01:07 PM   #253
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http://kotaku.com/gaming/star-wars/l...age-191477.php

Sorry
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Old 08-03-2006, 04:04 PM   #254
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Aren't we going around in circles here??

How does one get into HL2 modding, cos i'm starting to think the only way i'll get a good JK game is to take Might and Magic and mod it myself...



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Old 08-03-2006, 07:56 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toms
With next gen animation and physics they really should be able to pull something off where the players sabers interat more... so rather than hitting a person until their health bar drops, you'd have a back and forth fight where blows were blocked, until you wore down their defences and had a chance to finish them through the opening.
What I want LA to improve on in this jedi theme game is saber combat hand to hand combat, special moves and acrobatics.

The combat abilities I want are:

Real saber combat fighting styles, all of them they can think of from the past jedi games and kung fu movies if kung fu is needed.
I want Lucausarts to put in all the possible figthing techniques that you or I can do if properly trained by a sword master, with the saber staff one saber and two sabers with had receiving those sword skills.

Like you will have to block in the 360* direction you think your opponent will attack meaning,
-behind, in front, side to side, left and right up and down etc. I mean you will have to do the blocking manually.

Real hand to hand combat and kicking combat styles when weapons are'nt drawn.

Acrobatics like fliping jumping and runing off walls or jumping on people like in JKA.
More advance saber combat fighting styles like jump kicks, flip kicks, grabing with throwing and kicking combos that was present in both the movies and Ep III the game. Also customisable combat fighting styles option. Also customisable combat stances and special moves.

Some REAL saber/weapon combat physics effects like, decapictations, slash injuries, weapon caused wounds and chop off limbs. Also damage effects to your clothing resulting from combat.

Lastly I want experiance real real combat like action meaning, I want them include a realistic option (choice of on/off) that don't include no health bars. With this option those of us who want to finaly fight realistly as possiable can for the first time ever.

With this option turn on you can for example, stab your opponent in the chest region & if they are'nt wearing sufficient armor or can't block your attack in time from your saber attack you can kill them instantly, that is what
I mean by REALISTIC combat.

Or you can become tire from strenuous combat with this option turn on, that have I have seen in one of the Jedi theme movie. One movie like for example, in Revenge of the Sith when Obi Wan and Anakin was tire from strenuous battling in the river lava scene on the planet Mustafar.

I want to finaly experiance the martial arts that I have seen in the all the Jedi theme movies and the realisted combat with swords (that I wish was lightsabers) in some kung fu movies.

Also before I forget to mention, I want to have as other jedi fans with friends will want to have a spilt screen coop mode in the story mode of the game. Where you and your friend or friends can play the story mode together for the first time as jedis.


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Old 08-03-2006, 09:08 PM   #256
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Not convinced about all the saber styles, unarmed combat, wall runing and kung fu myself... seems more matrix that star wars.

Unarmed combat seems rather pointless if you have the force, blasters and a lightsaber. Could i just "pull an Indy" and shoot you?

I don't remember any wall running or fliping off walls in the SW movies.. though there might have been something in the end ep3 duel. But too much flipping and stuff tends to make people look like dememted bunnies rather than serious sword fighters.

Heck, if it was me i'd leave out unarmed combat, and probably staffsabers and dual wielding sabers as well.. but i know all the 13 year old fanboys would have a fit if they did. Still, that would be my personal preference.

Much as i love jet li, sabers were much cooler when they were inspired by toshiro mifune.



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Old 08-04-2006, 08:06 AM   #257
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I definitely agree with Toms... in none of the 6 star wars movies did I see a fist fight... there are plenty of fighting games out there... for me its really about the sabers.

Im 50 50 on the keep/drop staff and dual weild, but a single saber is enough if they get proper stances and moves going, which I kinda agree with windu6 on, with the whole 360 degree protection, because what if you got shot or attacked from behind.

The health bar issue, is another iffy one for me, while UBER realism is good, 1 they would need to make the saber contact REALLY REALLY good, in order to keep a fight going, because as soon as someone gets their hit in, its pretty much over, so I think the way it is now, works, because the animation and moves are sub par
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:21 AM   #258
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It would be very cool if they had a system where instead od reperatedly hitting each other until your health bar was depleted, you had to wear down you opponents offence until you found an opening. Maybe it could be as simple as a parry bar that each hit reduces, but which refills over time (like a halo shield) and you would parry all attacks until it was depleted.. then a hit or two would do major damage.

I keep thinking of cool saber combat ideas.. but they'd only work against a single opponent.. once you throw in multiple opponents it gets to easy to be cheap killed by a shot to the back.

Maybe you could have first person detailed saber combat one-on-one, but if someone else comes within range it would alert you, and maybe zoom out to a third person view with more 360 degree attacks.



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Old 08-04-2006, 02:05 PM   #259
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Quote:
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I definitely agree with Toms... in none of the 6 star wars movies did I see a fist fight... there are plenty of fighting games out there...
If we ignore the prequels then you'd be right. Of course AOTC has a very prominent fist fight between Jango and Obi-Wan.

Not to mention, even though they use sabers primarily, the fighters often toss punches, kicks, and other "unarmed" moves into their fights. Note the Episode I battle where Darth Maul kicks Obi-Wan in the face, Qui Gon backhands him, and Maul smacks Qui Gon with his saber hilt. In Episode III Anakin and Obi-Wan kick each other a few times and a few punches too iirc. Obi-Wan has a brief fist fight with Grievous. In Episode I Obi-Wan kicks some battle droids. I believe one of the generic Jedi kicks a battle droid on Geonosis in Episode II as well. And in the classic trilogy, Luke kicks Vader down some stairs in ROTJ.

Edit: Also, Dooku kicks Anakin in the fight between him and Obi-Wan at the beginning of Episode III.

Quote:
The health bar issue, is another iffy one for me, while UBER realism is good, 1 they would need to make the saber contact REALLY REALLY good, in order to keep a fight going, because as soon as someone gets their hit in, its pretty much over, so I think the way it is now, works, because the animation and moves are sub par
Well if we're going for realism, it's possible to survive saber hits, though 9 times out of 10 it will take you out of the fight (Vader gets hit by Luke in ESB and just gets angrier, Obi-Wan gets hit twice by Dooku and gets taken out by lives, Anakin gets his arm cut off by Dooku also in Episode II and passes out, Luke gets his hand cut off by Vader in ESB and stops fighting of course he also lost his saber in the process, Vader's robot hand is cut off by Luke and he gives up though he lost his saber as well in ROTJ but he was fine a short time later. It took several saber hits to kill the monster (Acklay?) that Obi-Wan was fighting in the AOTC arena, though you could say it was going to die anyway and he just put it out of its misery perhaps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toms
Could i just "pull an Indy" and shoot you?
Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb (using the Buffy the Vampire engine) had a pretty robust fist fighting system, plus you could use other melee weapons and guns. I don't think there was any actual sword fighting in it (I only got partway through the game though so it could have been nearer the end) but yes, you could pick up a gun and just shoot the guy who was planning to punch you. The same is true in any Jedi game. If the other guy turns off his saber, you can still cut his friggin' head off. He was just "unwise to lower his defenses."

So the only thing stopping you from killing an "unarmed" enemy if you are armed, is personal honor, some admin threatening to ban you, or you lack ammo.

Unless you suck so much that the guy with the fists gets to you anyway before you can plug 'em...!

Quote:
I don't remember any wall running or fliping off walls in the SW movies.. though there might have been something in the end ep3 duel. But too much flipping and stuff tends to make people look like dememted bunnies rather than serious sword fighters.
You obviously don't remember Yoda in Episode II then. He flips all over the place, including flipping off a ship fighting Dooku. He does similar moves fighting Sideous in Episode III. Iirc, Palpy uses the flip move to dodge a pillar or other obstacle whilst fighting Windu earlier.

Perhaps "too much flipping and stuff" looks bad, but you can't say it wasn't inspired by the movies (unless you throw out the prequels, which, let's face it, for better or for worse have redefined how people view lightsaber fighting in Starwars now).

Actually to the people participating in the fight, it looks totally awesome and cool and exciting. Where it looks "silly" is to an observer watching (who doesn't happen to like that stuff). An important distinction.

So for playing it's no problem, if you're one of those folks who likes to watch (and record the demos for later playback) then I can sympathize. But oh well. If something is fun to play, that's a higher priority for me than if it looks totally cool to somebody not playing.

I agreed with you regarding the multiple saber opponents in the earlier games (JK/MotS), but now that so many spinning and "both sides" moves have been added in the latest installment, I don't feel that way anymore. Sure, a duel is a duel, but I don't find multiple people saber fighting at once to be blasphemous or unstarwarsy or something. Possibly "unfair" if they are ganging up on you, but still, if they decided to form a temporary alliance in a FFA to beat you or if it's a team game and your teammate refuses to help, well I guess that's how the chips fell that day!

Btw toms, what did you think of RazorAce's OJP Enhanced, saber system? Just curious.


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Old 08-04-2006, 03:11 PM   #260
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This "Star Wars Force Unleashed" is going to be console only? Forget that then...


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Old 08-04-2006, 07:56 PM   #261
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Well they say Next Gen Consoles, I dont really know if that includes next gen PCs...

Lucasarts.com ran a survey of what systems people use and 47% was held by PC users, IGN seems to think that "Force Unleashed" is going to be on PC as well, but Lucasarts would be silly not to do it, they already shafted us with the new INDY game

As for the movie specific details sure, no arguing that.

However, I see no problem in adding kicks and punches as moves in the Saber fighting, like the kick for the staff in JA, but I see no point in a full fledge kung fu system or even any real fist type weapon or stance... sure Jango and Obi Wan duked it out, but thats 1 time and doesnt need to be a staple of a game.

The flipping and such, I direct you to the fact that Yoda is very small, his arms and legs are short so he cant manouver, let alone attack at chest level unless hurtling through the air... and palpatine, well they were jumping up and down falling object. All I see a good idea in that, is a saumersault where you flip over the enemy swinging your saber attempting to decapitate him, again there was a move in JA for that, or the very standard run towards a wall and vault off of it over your enemy to be at his back. But the sideways running and anything matrix doesnt belong.

As for 360 attacks, I think if they redesign the combat and animation they should accomodate for 360 degree fighting. I enjoyed squaring off with 2 or 3 reborn guys in single player. Various back defense positions are core to the jedi fighting styles, I read about it in the Star Wars insider magazine ages ago before EP3, it can be done.

and personally I like 3rd person for full movement and sword fighting because at first person you see so much less and the jumps and flips will make you dizzy, I dont go back and watch fights but I like the cinematic feel when Im in them.
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:02 PM   #262
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I don't play JO or JA in multiplayer, so i've no idea about any of the mods i'm afraid.

I'm not really at all worried about "honor codes" or demo recording either...seems to me that only people who get a bit too obsessed worry about that sort of thing. No problem with multiplayer fights either. (its just much harder to do a good system when you have to take it into account imho). You are right that things can look cool to the playersinvolved, and it doesn't matter so much what they look like to insiders.

I guess you are also right about the prequel fights. Though obi1 was fist fighting because he kept losing his saber.. and yoda flipping around (though it was the best thing in ep2) is hardly a model for all "normal" jedi.

I still think that trying to add in an entire hand-to-hand fighting system would be a waste of resources though. It must be hard enough to make a system that works without lag, works with multiple opponents, works with 1 saber, 2 sabers and a staff and is still balanced.. without trying to add in hand to hand combat that a jedi would only use if he lost his saber. (or as the odd throw in move, not a whole fighting style).

Its true i prefer the fighting style of the OT, but i guess that is gone for good. But i'm not one of those fans who insists on everything matching the films, or minor petty details. I think the more important thing is to get the FEEL and SPIRIT of the movies.
I don't know how to describe it, but i'd know it when i saw it.

I think the 360 system could work... though i think a few games have tried it before and it hasn't come off. Flips and jumps are ok, but imho they should be occasional things.. maybe one flip or jump per fight. not yoda-flipping all over the place non-stop.

(PS) they should use the Force Unleashed tech to make a Clone Wars game.. i'd be much happier using OTT powers and blasting through 100s of troops if it was in a cartoon setting.



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Old 08-04-2006, 09:36 PM   #263
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Quote:
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Well they say Next Gen Consoles, I dont really know if that includes next gen PCs...

Lucasarts.com ran a survey of what systems people use and 47% was held by PC users, IGN seems to think that "Force Unleashed" is going to be on PC as well, but Lucasarts would be silly not to do it, they already shafted us with the new INDY game

As for the movie specific details sure, no arguing that.

However, I see no problem in adding kicks and punches as moves in the Saber fighting, like the kick for the staff in JA, but I see no point in a full fledge kung fu system or even any real fist type weapon or stance... sure Jango and Obi Wan duked it out, but thats 1 time and doesnt need to be a staple of a game.
I forgot one more example in my previous post... Dooku kicks Anakin in the fight between him and Obi-Wan at the beginning of Episode III.

Punches and kicks happen a lot more frequently than you guys are willing to admit!

I'm not saying it should be a fist fighting game like Masters of Teras Kesai, but if you're using the movies to back up your contention that fisticuffs shouldn't be a part of the game, that's just not supported.


Quote:
The flipping and such, I direct you to the fact that Yoda is very small, his arms and legs are short so he cant manouver, let alone attack at chest level unless hurtling through the air... and palpatine, well they were jumping up and down falling object.
Right, but Yoda isn't the only one flipping around, was my point. Dooku does it, as does Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Anakin (plus various no-name Jedi of course). About the only character who really does it in the classic trilogy is Luke, but still. In the Prequels, even the old decrepit characters are capable of some high flying antics that put Michael Jordon in his prime to shame...

Quote:
All I see a good idea in that, is a saumersault where you flip over the enemy swinging your saber attempting to decapitate him, again there was a move in JA for that, or the very standard run towards a wall and vault off of it over your enemy to be at his back. But the sideways running and anything matrix doesnt belong.
I agree that "wall running" was clearly thrown in due to the popularity of The Matrix, but still. The other stuff is not out of character for Star Wars.

Quote:
and personally I like 3rd person for full movement and sword fighting because at first person you see so much less and the jumps and flips will make you dizzy, I dont go back and watch fights but I like the cinematic feel when Im in them.
I think removing first person view for lightsabers from JA was a big mistake on Raven's part. They claimed they didn't want to do it because it would have involved creating custom 1st person textures for the "arms" you see for all the possible color and texture combinations of all the different characters you could be, or it wouldn't look right. They had a point, that would have been a lot of work. However RazorAce's solution implemented wonderfully in OJP Basic and looks great. Just change the camera position, so simple.

Unfortunately you're still stuck with third person only in JA single player (though with cheats you can come pretty darn close to perfect with it).

I think preserving the first and third person for all weapons is a must for any future Jedi Knight game, as is keeping multiplayer, and the ability to use Guns+Sabers+Force, and editability.


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Old 08-05-2006, 08:10 AM   #264
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Okay, heres the deal, WE CANT DECIDE HOW THE GAME IS GOING TO BE.

These are opinions.

Again, I acknowledged the kicking and hitting, but again this was all done during a saber fight, with the saber out. There was a kick move for the saber staff, thats great, more of that sure whatever, but there is no need for a *fists* weapon, as in an entry where all you have equiped is your bare hands. Jango wasnt a jedi and Obi Wan lost his saber, in JKA, you could drop it and be defenseless until you pulled it back, *solution* The Jango and obi wan was the ONLY instance I can think of where there was a proper fbare handds fight, FINE, but because its in the movie doesnt mean it should be a part of the game, ITS JUST A GAME. Lots of other things happened in the movies, Luke blocked shots from a training droid, with a blast helmet on while blind. Luke climbed a vine with yoda on his back. Obi Wan hung from a thing in the Pit while fighting Darth Maul. IT all happened in the movie but I dont see people complaining about that. Jango and Obi Wan duked it out, I cant deny that, but why have that stuff in the game? Its about force powers and light sabers.

I had no problem with flipping, you could do it in JA and JO, but nothing over the top boardering on floating, or wall running, no Matrix moves. In JA you could do saumersaults and flips, and big jumps, I never criticized that, but flying kicks and kung fu matrix... no.
Yoda was a special case, the other characters did flips and stuff, but something as erratic as yodas fight would ruin the game, because then everyone would be flipping and lolly gagging around and there would be very few proper sword fights.

I think it would be cool if there was a first person view, I like 3rd as well, have both and everyone is happy.

and finally, the SUPPOSED TITLE, of this GAME that is NOT a Jedi Knight game, is FORCE UNLEASHED. which means there is going to be a big focus on force powers and all the TINY details such as punching and kicking may be overlooked to make force integration better. Its next gen, its new, but you cant go from something, to everything in one jump.

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Old 08-05-2006, 03:58 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortune Hunter
Okay, heres the deal, WE CANT DECIDE HOW THE GAME IS GOING TO BE.

These are opinions.



The SUPPOSED TITLE, of this GAME that is NOT a Jedi Knight game, is FORCE UNLEASHED. which means there is going to be a big focus on force powers and all the TINY details such as punching and kicking may be overlooked to make force integration better. Its next gen, its new, but you cant go from something, to everything in one jump.
We don't know what the title is going to be named.

And I believe they will really be making a mistake with this game if forget to focus on lightsaber combat too.

Figthing with a lightsaber is what most jedi prefer and if they only focus on force powers more and not both, this game is going to really be a disappointment to most jedi fans out there. Who want a complete jedi knight experiance. So with that said, playing a force power focus game and only having medicore lightsaber combat is going to send this game to the trash compacter very quick.

So if they are going to make another jedi knight game they need to learn from their mistakes from previous jedi theme games and put in everything a jedi have been seen to do in past movies, EU novels, and games to form the complete package.

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Old 08-05-2006, 06:33 PM   #266
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I completely agree, they would be extremely foolish to not improve Saber combat, and I am almost certain they will, I would just be skeptical if full fledge punching and kicking gets added too.

Im just guessing here, we dont know what the game is about, that was just a force power demo pre render... that means very little really on the game itself
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Old 08-05-2006, 07:18 PM   #267
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Again, I acknowledged the kicking and hitting, but again this was all done during a saber fight, with the saber out.
Well not completely accurate... for much of the Grievous/Obi-Wan and Jango/Obi-Wan barehanded fights no sabers were ignited. So fisticuffs happened both in addition to saber dueling and in place of saber dueling.

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There was a kick move for the saber staff, thats great, more of that sure whatever, but there is no need for a *fists* weapon, as in an entry where all you have equiped is your bare hands.
Well what if you want to throw in a punch somebody when you've dropped your saber? Or how about a hiltbash or backhand or something for stealth (with saber off)? There could be reasons to use a less lethal and less noisy action in a game.

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Jango wasnt a jedi and Obi Wan lost his saber, in JKA, you could drop it and be defenseless until you pulled it back, *solution* The Jango and obi wan was the ONLY instance I can think of where there was a proper fbare handds fight, FINE,
Don't forget Grievous vs. Obi-Wan. Grievous wasn't a Sith/Jedi either, yet he knew how to fight with lightsabers and had at least FOUR of them. They had a barehanded/legged fight as much as Jango and Obi-Wan did.

If memory serves, there is a scene where Obi-Wan and Anakin exchange punches with each other, even though they both have their sabers armed as well.


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but because its in the movie doesnt mean it should be a part of the game, ITS JUST A GAME. Lots of other things happened in the movies, Luke blocked shots from a training droid, with a blast helmet on while blind. Luke climbed a vine with yoda on his back. Obi Wan hung from a thing in the Pit while fighting Darth Maul. IT all happened in the movie but I dont see people complaining about that. Jango and Obi Wan duked it out, I cant deny that, but why have that stuff in the game? Its about force powers and light sabers.
True, I'm just saying that to the people who say that "Movie realism" would entail no fisticuffs or kicking at all, for Jedi/Sith, or at least when they have sabers out. Game balance can let us do anything we want, I'm saying you could fit them in without ruining that as well and perhaps add some fun and variety in the process. Those things like training droids, ledge hanging, and swinging on vines don't need to be in the game, but they could be very cool if they were in and done properly.

Fisticuffs are one thing that were in the movies, and featured in the games, that some people are saying should be taken out and many of them are doing so on the basis that it is "more true" to the movies NOT to have them, that is the notion I was challenging, since the movies seem to say otherwise.

It's not JUST about force powers and lightsabers, but also guns. That's been the JK series since 1997. Before that it was pure guns (and bombs and fists, with no multiplayer). I just think turning it into a purely sabers+force game, as some are suggesting would be a mistake. It would deviate too much from the established series. It would be a "jedi" game but it wouldn't be a proper "Jedi Knight" (series) game...

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I had no problem with flipping, you could do it in JA and JO, but nothing over the top boardering on floating, or wall running, no Matrix moves. In JA you could do saumersaults and flips, and big jumps, I never criticized that, but flying kicks and kung fu matrix... no.
Obi-Wan does a flying kick on Jango in AOTC. He does a double aerial split kick on some battle droids in TPM. Another unnamed Jedi does a roundhouse kick on a droid in AOTC, and of course you're familiar with Darth Maul's spins, twirls, cartwheels, high kicking and hilt bashing in TPM. Luke side kicks Vader down the stairs in ROTJ. A lot of the other attacks lack real finesse (more like street fighting manuvers rather than proper martial arts), but they're there, the backhands and such.

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Yoda was a special case, the other characters did flips and stuff, but something as erratic as yodas fight would ruin the game, because then everyone would be flipping and lolly gagging around and there would be very few proper sword fights.
Yeah, but one person's "erratic" is another person's "true to the movies." If movie realism is our objective, than stuff like that has a proper place. A lot of the moves currently in the Jedi's arsenal were never shown in the movies at all. They were put in there to try to pad out your repetoire, add variety and because the developers thought they looked cool. Of course if we are going strictly by movie realism, these moves would need to be removed, and some others added. Same with the weapons. Many people on the SWBF2 boards for example, forget that rocket launchers never appear in a single Star Wars movie (they are strictly an EU invention), and yet I don't know of a one of them, even the strictest movie purists, who suggest they should be removed based on that.

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I think it would be cool if there was a first person view, I like 3rd as well, have both and everyone is happy.
Agreed. In terms of "realism"... first person is always more realistic. Unless of course we're saying that the Jedi has one some opaque goggles that give him a video feed of a cloaked droid flying above and behind him.

Quote:
and finally, the SUPPOSED TITLE, of this GAME that is NOT a Jedi Knight game, is FORCE UNLEASHED.
It's supposedly a "working title" and might not even be the real final title. They could call it "Jedi Knight III: Force Unleashed" for all we know. I am not going to assume at this point it is THE sequel to Jedi Outcast/Academy though.

Quote:
which means there is going to be a big focus on force powers and all the TINY details such as punching and kicking may be overlooked to make force integration better. Its next gen, its new, but you cant go from something, to everything in one jump.
Perhaps, but what's in a name? "Dark Forces" wasn't really about the Dark Side of the Force, it was about the Dark Trooper project and Kyle Katarn trying to stop it. "Jedi Knight" was about a Jedi yes, but there were actually seven Dark Jedi, Qu Rahn who instructs Kyle as a spirit, plus thousands of Jedi spirits, and Kyle himself who becomes a Jedi (presumably the title is about Kyle's progress as a Jedi). "Mysteries of the Sith" was definately about the Mysteries of the Sith, I agree (even though that only took up the last few levels, ie: the climax, of the game, the rest was about Kyle fighting the Imperial Remnant and Mara going on random missions for the New Republic as she grew in the ways of the Force). Jedi Academy wasn't much about the Academy, though you were IN the Academy and went on missions as part of your training. Jedi Outcast's overarching plot was about Desann, an outcast from the Jedi Order, but the first part of the game had little to do with him. It was more about Kyle returning to the ways of the Force and fighting for the New Republic with his partner Jan.

Of course now looking at these games from a MULTIPLAYER standpoint, all bets are off. Dark Forces had no multiplayer. JK was about Jedi running around killing each other and capturing flags. MotS was about Jedi and non-Jedi playing games of tag with a Ysalamiri and killing each other for points. Jedi Outcast, much the same as JK but it also had dueling with sabers and/or guns, a King of the Hill style contest between one powerful Jedi and lots of non-jedi (Jedi Master), lots of low level force/saber and gun users vying for holocrons (Holocron FFA), and a CTF variant with Jedi (CTY). Jedi Academy eliminated the Jedi Master, Holocron and CTY, replacing them with a 2 on 1 Jedi contest (with or without a blaster backup weapon, though you could also play as a person with fists and force with no saber), and Siege which had a mixture of Jedi and non-Jedi fighting on teams to accomplish objectives (perhaps the most "realistic" multiplayer contest in the series yet).

It should also be pointed out that Jedi Outcast had no "fists" weapon. In single player, before you got your lightsaber, you were stuck with blasters and the "stun baton" (which was a close range melee weapon that was fairly weak). Multiplayer you could only use the stun baton if you got rid of your saber (either as a Jedi with no force points assigned to Saber attack, or as a "Mercenary" in the hidden Jedi vs. Merc bonus gametype, a variation of FFA.

In Jedi Academy, single player you never had fists unless you entered a cheat or used a mod that enabled it. In multiplayer, fists were reserved for non-Jedi classes, in Jedi Vs. Merc or Siege; and for Jedi who took all points away from saber attack (which you couldn't do in Duel, but I think you might have been able to do in PowerDuel, my memory is a little hazy on the last point... it may be that you could go without a saber, but only if you were on the "two man" team).


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Old 08-05-2006, 10:42 PM   #268
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Woah nice post Kurgan, the way I see it much time should be spent on developing saber combat. But that's no reason not to enhance it with some melee . Like Qui-Gon's backhand in his saberlock with darth maul, or in the game you may have your lightsaber destroyed or lost or you just want to quietly take out enemies that you don't want to kill (maybe lightside bonuses?).


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Old 08-06-2006, 07:06 AM   #269
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It would be nice if you could have melee from the start. If not it would be great if upon losing your saber or holstering it (in JA SP the holster button is = by default) you would instantly gain melee.

It would be nice if with all sabers you could do melee attacks, and not just kicking either. Being able to punch or backhand with a saber would be nice. But punching and kicking during saber duels should happen less often, if you don't time it right and hit them while their open there's a good chance your foot or hand could get cut off.


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Old 08-06-2006, 06:22 PM   #270
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Hmm

I dont know if this is just me, but i really think the sequel of Jedi Academy should go off of the Dark Side ending of Jedi Academy.

It just seems to me the DS ending in JKA expands more on Kyle's character, and leaves more of a opening for a sequel. As for the whole Jaden customization, all you'd have to do is put on robes similiar to revan's that cover the entire body, and give him an artifical voice, since his face is covered by a mask.

I just think a sequel of the Jedi Knight series would be better off if they went with the DS ending of JKA, it really adds to the series and expands on Kyle's character, imo anyways.


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Old 08-06-2006, 06:54 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRF_Vader
It just seems to me the DS ending in JKA expands more on Kyle's character, and leaves more of a opening for a sequel.
While I agree with what you're saying, it cannot be like that. The light-side ending of JA is officially canon. The dark-side ending is meant to be just a twist, much like the dark-side ending for the original Jedi Knight which also is not canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRF_Vader
As for the whole Jaden customization, all you'd have to do is put on robes similiar to revan's that cover the entire body, and give him an artifical voice, since his face is covered by a mask.
Either the player would be able to customize Jaden how they want, or a specific canon Jaden would be used. Officially, Jaden is male, but his species is not yet known.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:59 AM   #272
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Well, one more thing about the saber melee, the AI Jedi (both Dark and Light) kick way too much no matter what saber they have.

I noticed that sometimes my character will force push someone by himself sometimes and knock them over by timing it right, it usually happens when I'm fighting a Reborn Master or boss.

It would be cool if there was an automated melee system where your character would automattically punch/kick the enemy saberist when they are open and depending on the where the enemie's saber is and which part of him is open he would either punch or kick.


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Old 08-08-2006, 02:08 PM   #273
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You know... i really can't remember any punch ups in the films.. but i'm assuming kurgan knows more about it than me so he'd be right. But whatever there was sure can't have made a big impression.

In olden games it was easy to add lots of stuff.. because you didn't have to do it in muc detail. JK had a "fists" weapon. It was incredibly basic and i doubt anyone used it. but it was OK. But with modern games, that are much more detailed and realistic if you add something, you have to do it well and balance it well. So you really have to think whether its worth spending a lot of time on implementing something well.. or better just to skip it and do something else instead. But hey, i've no problem with tem adding a kungfu engine too.. as long as it doesn't mean they spend less time focusing on the important things.

(its a bit like loosing the 1st person view because they implemented a pointless, and not very well done, customise your character option. )
(though i wasn't that bothered about that as i never used the 1st person view cos it wasn't much good.. but since JA a few games have shown that 1st person melee combat CAN be done well so i'd like to see it done properly now).

NOTE: When i'm chucking out random thoughts on what i'd like to see I'm NOT talking about Force Unleashed. Its posible they'll link that up to JK.. but i doubt it, and from everything i've heard it looks like the sort of game i'd hate anyway.
I'm talking about ideas for any possible "spiritual successor" to JK. I think the JK plot and characters are kinda played out now, and think they need a new start.. but i'm talking about a game with the feel of JK. I just don't get the sense FU is going to be anything like that.

If they are going to take a dark side ending, they sould run with the JK dark side ending.. kyle killing Jan, beating Jerec, Teaming with Saris and then attempting to take over the remnant and use it to rule the galaxy. (actually, since he might then get the power from the ValleyOTJ that could even be "Force Unleashed". Nah...)



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Old 08-08-2006, 02:16 PM   #274
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The one thing I hate about melee is the game considers it a weapon you have to obtain somehow. Why can't you just put your weapon away (you can) then make your dude make fists if you want to punch and kick.


Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:42 AM   #275
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You know, it just now struck me, toms, that the abbreviation of "Force Unleashed" is "FU"... maybe it's because I'm tired and my immature mind is taking over, but I found that incredibly humorous (and/or scary).

Hopefully it isn't just a big joke on us!

Get it? :P


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Old 08-09-2006, 01:12 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
the abbreviation of "Force Unleashed" is "FU"
Woah that's more scary than funny Kurgs. Perhaps we shouldn't get our hopes up after all.


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Old 08-09-2006, 08:18 AM   #277
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I thought you might like that. Wasn't sure whether to leave it or write out the whole name.. but it was just so much hard work to change it...

Maybe i should check out some of those JO mods.. sounds like they might have already tried a lot of the ideas i've got for how i'd like the combat to work. I thought of a pretty good system that kinda combines Soul Calibur with Might and Magic/Riddick/Halo and a bit of JO.. but these things never work as good in practice as they sound on paper.

One thing I would really like is if they put the old JK style force jump back in... the JO one seems too slow and floaty.. the JK one took more skill and time to charge correctly. Thats probably just me though...



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Old 08-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #278
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I can see the press conference now....

Reporters: So can you tell us about the next Jedi Knight game?

LucasArts: FU!!!!

Reporters: *writes down "Force Unleashed"* Wow, amazing!


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Old 08-10-2006, 05:17 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toms
I thought you might like that. Wasn't sure whether to leave it or write out the whole name.. but it was just so much hard work to change it...

Maybe i should check out some of those JO mods.. sounds like they might have already tried a lot of the ideas i've got for how i'd like the combat to work. I thought of a pretty good system that kinda combines Soul Calibur with Might and Magic/Riddick/Halo and a bit of JO.. but these things never work as good in practice as they sound on paper.

One thing I would really like is if they put the old JK style force jump back in... the JO one seems too slow and floaty.. the JK one took more skill and time to charge correctly. Thats probably just me though...
What is "FU" I don't think the title is going to be called, "Force Unleash" . Besides that not a very good name for a jedi theme game.

It seems to me by looking at the game skeckches that they have shown on the internet, seem to confirm my belief that this game may probably be base on the upcoming live action T.V. series.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:28 PM   #280
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they never said it was going to be a jedi game or jk sequel.

seems to be more of an rts or (mmo)rpg


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