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Old 08-06-2005, 09:06 PM   #1
lukeiamyourdad
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A new way to look at Stealth

I was thinking about stealth in KotOR lately. I really like to have to option to play differently then the majority of users who would hack through a battalion of Sith trooper. That's why we have stealth. As we all know, stealth, in its current form, is useless.

So I was thinking, what would make stealth worthwhile without being overpowered?

So this is what I propose, no numbers here should be taken seriously as they're all arbitrary.

What if, when you attacked someone, you had a chance to remain hidden? Like 50% as a default value + modifiers and such.

What if you have a chance to do an insta-kill? Somewhere around 30% as a default value and going up as your stealth skill progresses and modifiers add up.

To sum it up easily, simply give the stealth player the ability to insta-kill and remain hidden after an attack.

Perhaps it is asking a little much, but your surroundings could come into play. If you're standing in the dark shadow of a tree, your chance of remaining hidden increases.

It's only a simple suggestion, to make stealth more enjoyable.


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Old 08-06-2005, 10:15 PM   #2
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Aye, what a brilliant idea, but how about more areas that you can get into only using stealth that are there just for a little history on who your fighting? Ya know sneaking into a sith class room and learn some history, then behead the teacher afterwards.


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Old 08-06-2005, 10:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I was thinking about stealth in KotOR lately. I really like to have to option to play differently then the majority of users who would hack through a battalion of Sith trooper. That's why we have stealth. As we all know, stealth, in its current form, is useless.

So I was thinking, what would make stealth worthwhile without being overpowered?

So this is what I propose, no numbers here should be taken seriously as they're all arbitrary.

What if, when you attacked someone, you had a chance to remain hidden? Like 50% as a default value + modifiers and such.

What if you have a chance to do an insta-kill? Somewhere around 30% as a default value and going up as your stealth skill progresses and modifiers add up.

To sum it up easily, simply give the stealth player the ability to insta-kill and remain hidden after an attack.

Perhaps it is asking a little much, but your surroundings could come into play. If you're standing in the dark shadow of a tree, your chance of remaining hidden increases.

It's only a simple suggestion, to make stealth more enjoyable.

At first, I thought you were saying that stealth as it exists now is thoroughly useless...as in it doesn't work and people see you anyway. But after reading your whole message, I understand it more. I think what you are proposing would be a great thing indeed! It would allow your character to have more Ninja-like abilities.

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Old 08-06-2005, 10:50 PM   #4
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I don't want to see KotOR turn into Hitman or Thief but I do agree that adding more viable stealth options would be very cool indeed.
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:23 PM   #5
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Insta-Kill is a bit overpowered don't you think? Stealth should be a great combo with your opening move you should not be attacking from stealth while your enemy is looking around wondering why he is dying. Skipping game content where is the fun in that?


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Old 08-07-2005, 12:02 AM   #6
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I don't think so and I have no idea what you're talking about. Skipping game content?

Insta-kill can be rebalanced. Insta-kill could reveal you to the rest of the world.

Stealth is by far the most hated skill in the game, as it does not seem to be useful enough. Doubling your damage with stealth does nothing as the second you attack, you're revealed to the whole world, often leaving you alone to face many enemies while your teammates are far away. Lone enemies are hard to find.
Placing mines around for 5 mins is stupid when you can simply run up there and kill everyone. Only a few hardcores actually use stealth in that way (myself included).

I want stealth to become mainstream though, so that everyone can consider it a good skill to invest your points into.

It's not like I want to have an insta-kill for final bosses. Important plot battles should still remain no-stealth duels/fight.


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Old 08-07-2005, 10:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Stealth is by far the most hated skill in the game,
I personally think repair is the worst in the game, but that's just me.

Anyway, I agree with your idea. It'd be nice to be able to take out a few sith troopers while still remaining invisible to the rest of the world. I personally use stealth for just about everything in the game, as it comes in very handy.

One thing I would really like though is to be able to use blaster rifles while in stealth. That'd really help in mowing down the enemy's front lines without having them realize who's firing (you could sort of use it like a sniper rifle while in stealth).

Maybe even make it so when you're surrounded by enemies, you can use stealth and they can actually not see you, instead of knowing exactly where you're going when you're invisible, but that may be a little too much. After all we want them to at least stand a chance against us while we're in stealth, right?
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Old 08-07-2005, 12:03 PM   #8
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^^^repair was the most useless in K1, in TSL you need repair if you want to break things down

back to stealth, i'd like to see the options for group stealth, the main reason i never used stealth in K1 or K2 unless i had to was that i'd have to leave everyone behind and fight all the guys on my own. what would be even better than group stealth would be more micromanaging options, like you could say "Ok, atton i want you to put on stealth and sneak around these guys while T3 runs interferance, i'll stealth up as well and come from the other side (as in atton will not follow two steps behind me) then while they investigate T3 we'll get the jump on them" or something like that. i really like the idea of when you are in the shadows you'd be harder to detect. i think you should be able to throw grenades while stealthed, it wouldn't reveal you, but it would give you like a -4 for that round or something so you would be easier to spot, but you could help negate that with mind trick. see, theres another reason to fix stealth for K3, people will actually learn mind trick. finally the biggest problem with stealth is that sure, you could sneek past all the baddies, but what about all that precious XP you'd be missing out on! some how stealth has to earn you XP, but in such a way that it couldn't become an exploit by sneaking past the same cannock thirty times and then killing him for even more XP. Right now the only way to do that is to learn confuse, the next step after mind trick and let them all kill each other.


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Old 08-07-2005, 10:02 PM   #9
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I honestly love your ideas lukeiamyourdad.
I'll be honest, I never used stealth except in KotOR2 to learn the juma juice thing in Nar Shaddaa.
I really think it's useless. But if they modify it more to look a bit how you said, it could be much better.
Cuz Stealth now, IMHO, is useless.



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Old 08-07-2005, 10:13 PM   #10
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I've been thinking about it more. Why the do you remain stealthed when placing mines but when you use a computer, you have to unstealth?
Why not give us the option to use stealth through an area in order to get to some console and then using whatever options we get to take out enemies, while remaining undetected?

I always thought that it was ridiculous.


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Old 08-07-2005, 10:29 PM   #11
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You definately should be able to remain stealthed until damage is done to you. If sith assassins can do that, why can't your PC? I never use it except to sneak up on the few people in TSL.


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Old 08-07-2005, 11:41 PM   #12
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The stealth you want in the game is definately far from realistic ever seen anyone in Star Wars just become invisible in plain view of the enemy? I still don't see it becoming mainstream for an offline game.


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Old 08-07-2005, 11:50 PM   #13
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Why NOT make it useful for players who want to play that way?
It's already in the game, if it's there, make it right or remove it. Make it right is better.
And why is there talk about realism? Stealth in KotOR was never realistic and I never said anything about a realistic approach to it.


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Old 08-08-2005, 02:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I don't want to see KotOR turn into Hitman or Thief but I do agree that adding more viable stealth options would be very cool indeed.
I couldn't have said it better myself...

More Stealth Options = A Good Thing!


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Old 08-08-2005, 10:18 AM   #15
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Sweet idea... Although I would agree with Achilles that I would hate to see it turn into Hitman. But then you always have the option not to play that way at all.


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Old 08-08-2005, 11:29 AM   #16
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Apart from anything else, I just wish there were more options to use stealth. I think Obsidian took a step in the right direction with stuff like using stealth on Nar Shaddaa to listen in on those two conversations, and on Dxun to sneak up to the sensor, but more useage of Stealth would be nice.
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I don't want to see KotOR turn into Hitman or Thief but I do agree that adding more viable stealth options would be very cool indeed.
It shouldn't be that extreme, you still should be able to fight enemies normally without stealth. The Thief feeling as addition to current gameplay would be very interesting as alternative way to solve quests and improve stealth's significance. And as long as the current combat system isn't completely changed so that you die in one round when facing one nameless thug, then I don't see why it shouldn't make it into the game.
Yes, stealth should be enhanced both in interacting with the area and more important in combat, atm stealth is just of decent use with only few actions like opening doors or setting mines, that has to be improved in KOTOR III.
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Old 08-09-2005, 09:52 AM   #18
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Might have been nice to see the storm troopers enter the Jedi Temple with noone there while they are stealthing onto a ship and flying to Dagobah lol.


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Old 08-09-2005, 11:27 AM   #19
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Damn, why did those people at Bioware and Obsidian put stealth into the game. It's so bloody unrealistic. I mean, it does add a good gameplay element, but it f**** things up!



I don't see you whine about Stealth in the first two games. I don't see you whine about the Sith Assassins in TSL using stealth on board the Harbinger. Just as "unrealistic" but fun from a gameplay perspective.

You've got nothing. Stealth is in the game, it's there and we better make it good.


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Old 08-09-2005, 08:51 PM   #20
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Funny how you like realistic RTS but not RPG's rofl!!


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Old 08-09-2005, 09:23 PM   #21
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When they make an RPG during the OT's time, there needs to be consistency with the movies. We're 4000 years in the past right now and in somewhat of an alternate universe.
It's like EU and cannon. When it's based on cannon, it needs to be real, when it's based on EU, well to hell with it.
This doesn't mean I want an NJO game. It still needs the Star Wars feel.


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Old 08-10-2005, 04:34 AM   #22
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I'm a little confused 4000 years in the past the Republic did not exist then. Palpatine's statement " I will not let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two". Opps.


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Old 08-10-2005, 04:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FroZticles
I'm a little confused 4000 years in the past the Republic did not exist then. Palpatine's statement " I will not let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two". Opps.
You expect consistency from George Lucas? The Republic was around long before the "thousand years" laid down by Palpy in the PT. And lest your powers of observation fail you, remember that the game is called Knights of the Old Republic (referring to a specific era in the Republic). Additionally, Lucas Arts approved the marketing that stated the events in the game took place 4,000 years before those in the movies. If you'd like one of us to find you a timeline, just say the word.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:42 AM   #24
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GL is pretty consistant just the companies that make Star Wars games out of LA that are not. Old Republic was the era Palpatine ruled in........

Lucas Arts don't get told alot of things they just sell the fanchise take SWG for example its is nothing like SW cept for skins.


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Old 08-10-2005, 01:15 PM   #25
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Pretty please (with cherry on top) take the time to go educate yourself about Star Wars before you post on this subject again. You seem like a reasonable person and it pains me to see a reasonable person posting information on a subject that they don't know as much about as they think they do.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:19 PM   #26
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He did say this Republic. If he said, the Republic, it would mean that there was none before. Only one.

If anything, it means that there was one before, maybe several and that Palpatine's Republic is only one of many.


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Old 08-27-2005, 12:36 AM   #27
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^^^^
I think you might be right.

Anyways, back on topic.

Stealth would be nice if it were more useful. So I have to totally agree with you.


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Old 08-27-2005, 01:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
He did say this Republic. If he said, the Republic, it would mean that there was none before. Only one.

If anything, it means that there was one before, maybe several and that Palpatine's Republic is only one of many.
For once, I actually agree with you. When he said the Republic has stood for a thousand years, maybe he meant the modern Republic - one thousand years before he said that, there was a major turning point in Republic history - the Sith vanished, and the Republic was de-militarized.
Or he could have reffering to how it stood for for one thousand years without war.

Of course, what's a better source? The movies or KOTOR? Definitely the second.


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