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Thread: Star Wars vs. Star Trek: THE MOD!
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:27 PM   #41
Kurgan
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True enough, across all of canon ST, there's basically just infantry, troop hoppers (mentioned in a DS9 episode but never shown), a mortar (TOS), an armed dune buggy (Nemesis), a laser cannon implacement (TOS: The Cage/Menagerie), orbital bombardments (TOS: A Piece of the Action and a few rumored episodes), base shields (Enterprise episode with the Klingon virus), transporter inhibitors/attack drones (Insurrection), and that's about it. For the most part Trek factions rely on space power, and their infantry consists of marines or warriors which are little more than glorified starship security forces.

In a game like this, that would mean the Trek forces would have great difficulty holding any planets, but oh well, it's still just an idea. You could make up stuff, or you could focus on space, or do a single player campaign that wouldn't have to be balanced.

I guess with regards to era, you would probably want to take TNG era (including the TNG movies up to Nemesis) and just retroactively throw in everything that came before, much like EaW does with the Rebellion/Empire. After all, in the classic trilogy we never see Clone Wars era ships and vehicles being used, but EaW assumes they didn't just throw them all away, recycle them or forget how to build them. So you could still say, build a Constitution class starship (Kirk's era) or a mortar, despite them never being seen in Picard and Janeway's time. And the MACO's from Enterprise fight much better than many of the security forces in the later shows, so you'd think that they would be capable of training marines who were at least as well equipped, but with "modern" (for them) weaponry and gear.


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Old 01-29-2006, 07:06 AM   #42
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The Elite Force squad is a modern version of MAKO in ST:Voy (there is a game by the same name). Ground forces would require an artistic license.

Adding a few more planets to the list:

As regards the Galaxy Map, do you think it would be possible to change the planets into star systems (such as Sol, Trill system etc.) as seen in Birth of the Federation (the only TBS and one of the greatest ST games ever created). This would increase the amount of buildings available to be built in a single system, and therefore you could add more buildings for different strategies.
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:14 AM   #43
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You could have one planet funtion as sort of a doorway, and have the other planets in a star system connect to only each other, while the doorway planets connect to the planets in a system as well as some other doorway planets. Though you might consider an asteroid field to be this doorway planet, or a sun, or deep space. We'll need to see what's available in the full game.
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Old 01-29-2006, 11:35 AM   #44
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Yeah. Sounds plausible though. However, you would probably need to scale down the planets, or increase the size of the Galaxy for it to work well (or both).
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:34 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CondorFalco
The Elite Force squad is a modern version of MAKO in ST:Voy (there is a game by the same name). Ground forces would require an artistic license.
Right, except the MAKO's are canon, while the Elite Force is not. The Elite Force was only used in a fictional segment of Voyager's history (200 years after the MACO's during the time of Enterprise). There are Federation ground forces, according to Star Trek VI and DS9's later seasons. It's also hinted at in a few TOS episodes (notably "The Cage" and the episode with the Yangs/Kohms, I forget the name of that one). The Dominion uses the Jem Hadar, and the Klingons use infantry. The Romulans use Reman infantry, according to Nemesis. The Borg of course use their Drones as cannon fodder.

It's true though, their ground forces are pathetic compared to the Star Wars factions, since they largely consist of just infantry.


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Old 01-30-2006, 02:41 AM   #46
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Very true, however the Jem-Hadar use various heavy weapons as well, and they are even tougher than the Klingons, so they would probably be as close to an even match against Stormtroopers as possible, and I suspect that they would almost destroy a rebel infantry squad quite quickly. They are also cloned, with the only two downsides being their addiction to Ketracel White, and their short life-span (max 6yrs I think). They also use cloaked hovering mines (can't remeber their name), that are incredibly deadly. I do not believe that the Feds have very heavy handheld weaponary, and I suspect that the Klingons do have heavy weaponary, although they do not use it as much since they prefer melee combat.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:17 AM   #47
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The problem with only infantry is that an AT-AT or tracked tank (what was it called again a T3-B or is that the thing from Force Commander, damn numbers?) can quite easy flatten your infantry forces. Vehicles are needed. So you may want to design some stuff on your own, though somebody mentioned that that would require some sort of licence. Though I believe there are quite some fan designed ships in A2. And when designing vehicles you may also need to figure out what looks fit in with the faction.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:52 AM   #48
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Well, to start off with, I think somebody has already mentioned the Argus and the speeder buggy seen in Nemesis, so they could be used as a quick insertion vehicle and scout vehicle. Tanks etc, well they could be evolved forms as what were scene in New Worlds.
I suspect that the Romulans would use combinations of incredibly heavy firepower combined with cloaking swift strike forces, and almost all of their units would be able to cloak somehow (giving a very large tactical advantage).
The Klingons would most likely resort to troop transports to insert their brave warriors onto the field, with medium sized vehicles making the bulk of the tanks, etc.
The Federation would have a mixture of artillery, close combat vessels and all-purpose attack craft, all being high-tech. These would probably be the weakest, since the Feds are not accustomed to fighting ground battles post TOS (Klingons vs Feds) - with the exception being the Dominion War of course. So you could argue that the Feds would be developing on the ground attack front.
The Romulans would probably have artillery as well, with it being very high-tech, and the Klingons would most likely not have any meaningful artillery since they prefer close quarters battles.

Last edited by CondorFalco; 01-30-2006 at 06:56 AM. Reason: Forgot to add a few thoughts, and tidy the message up.
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:47 AM   #49
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I agree with you on the units. For a general layout of the units I'd use

I think the feds would mostly use fast repulsorlift vehicles, giving them a huge disadvantage when fighting on planest where repulsorlifsts are disabled. They would also use some wheeled vehicled for these planets. Most fed vehicles, if not all of them, would be shielded, but lacking in raw firepower and armor. I think the feds would also use some type of flying units, the way the rebels use their speeders. The fed would have a well balanced force, but individual units would be relatively weak in combat compared to the others. They also would be slightly more expensive, for the technology. The boost shields special abilty would be one the feds would most likely use. I think the feds would use mostly energy weapons

I think the klingons would use tracked vehicles and walkers, but no repulsorlifts. I also don't think the klingons would use shields a lot. I suspect they rely on pure armor. I think the klingons would use a lot of firepower, but with short ranges compared to the others. I don't think the klingons would use artillery. I think some of the Harkonnen units from Emperor:Battle for Dune would fit in with the klingons. Mostly the buzzsaw. The klingons would probably use the boost weapons special ability. The klingons might also use a lot of shield penetrating weapons. They also would use somewhat cheap stuff.

The romulans would most likely use repulsorlifts and tracked/wheeled vehicles, but no walkers. All of these in a well balanced mix. They would also use a lot of sneaky stuff, such as a cloaking device, and ion cannons, as well as shield penetrating guns. The rommies would have quite some firepower as well as longer ranges. So they don't have to engage in close combat, but can bombar them from a safe distance. Their main army would be based on the protection of the artillery, as well as a spotter to find the targets. I think the rommies would keep a few bombers in reserve during a defending spacebattle, so that if they lose they can use those bombers during the groundbattle that usually follows. I think the romulans should have a special unit that functions the same as their cloak enhencer from their A2 frigate. They would also have a cloaked spotter for their artillery.

Romulan space forces should be able to retreat even if there is a gravity well active, by cloaking. Though I am thinking about countering this one, by for example destroying their cloaking device, or have some cloak detect units. I also don't know wheter it's possible to initiate battle with only cloaked units. Undetectable units present when building a space station should not prefent the construction, but I believe they already don't.

The cardassians would use really cheap units, and mainly skirmisher type units. This would be artillery with some really fast hit and run units. These guys would most likely have the longest ranges and the fastest units. Though the damge they do with each shot is somewhat weak, and when surrounded they are really in trouble. They would probably use their infantry as cannon fodder and as spotter units. Their infantry should not have a lot of firepower, and their squads should come in small numbers.

Now about the cloaking, I think all infantry should be able to detect cloaked units in their LOS. Also all scout units should be able to detect them. The spotter units that comes with artillery should also be able to detect cloaked troops. The other units should be able to detect them only if they are really close to them. When a units is disabled it should also not be able to cloak, and if it already was cloaked it should immediatly decloak, with shields down.
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Old 01-30-2006, 10:05 AM   #50
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I pretty much agree with what you have said. However, as regards to cloaking, their is the Tachyon Detection Grid as featured in TNG which renders cloaking useless, and this would probably be only equipped on the spotters and scoutcraft. Infantry would not be able to operate such a device since it requires a lot of power, and a deflection grid/deflector, so unless say a group of scouts were specialised and carried the equipment around (say, 6 of them) and deployed, it would not fit. And yes, as in A2, units that have the ability to cloak and have been disabled, will decloak without shields.
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Old 01-30-2006, 10:26 AM   #51
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I think your eyesight should be able to detect cloaked units, possibly by disturbances in the terrain (suck as dust clouds). You generally can't see very far, unless the terrain is wide open. Or you might hear them. Still I don't know what the possibilities are with cloak, as it is not in the game. So that is quite important to find out. There is also the possibility of using Force sensitive units to detect cloak. They should feel the presence of life through the Force.
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:18 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CondorFalco
Very true, however the Jem-Hadar use various heavy weapons as well, and they are even tougher than the Klingons, so they would probably be as close to an even match against Stormtroopers as possible, and I suspect that they would almost destroy a rebel infantry squad quite quickly. They are also cloned, with the only two downsides being their addiction to Ketracel White, and their short life-span (max 6yrs I think). They also use cloaked hovering mines (can't remeber their name), that are incredibly deadly. I do not believe that the Feds have very heavy handheld weaponary, and I suspect that the Klingons do have heavy weaponary, although they do not use it as much since they prefer melee combat.
If you wanted to, you could incorporate the Ketracel White into the game by say, having it be part of a troop training facility for those units or something (a prerequisite for building Jemmies).

What "heavy weapons" did the Jem Hadar soldiers employ? When I checked they still only had hand held weapons (basically small arms and knives, and by "small arms" I mean a pistol, a rifle, etc). The Klingons had mortars in one episode of DS9. Sure they (JM) had the "natural ability to shroud" (a type of personal cloak) but that's hardly a "heavy weapon" (and scanners can beat it apparently it only fools the naked eye). Those mines you're talking about are the "Houdinis" (randomly teleporting cloaked anti-personel mines). Again, that's not really a "heavy weapon" like artillery or a combat vehicle... The reliance on melee combat is a distinct disadvantage, since it means you have to get close to use it. If your troops are smartly commanded, you just set up position and mow them down, like the troops in WWI charging machinegun nests... In game you could fudge it a little more of course.

A "heavy weapon" isn't a handheld device. But anyway, you could talk about the various handheld weapons that the Federation has like the Type I and Type II phasers, the various phaser rifles, the "rocket launcher" type weapon that Worf happened to have with him in Insurrection (rather weak, but good range). In the original pilot for TOS ("The Cage", also featured in The Menagerie for obvious reasons) they had a laser cannon that was powered by a Starship in orbit which otherwise seemed rather powerful compared to anything else they had at the time. TOS had a mortar, only seen in one episode. Enterprise featured "stun grenades" but one could argue they were only used then because their "phase pistol" stuns weren't very advanced (or not). The MACO's carried early pulse phaser rifles (they also had phase rifles, an early version of phaser rifles, in Enterprise).

But anyway, we're still talking small arms (carriable by a single trooper) in all these cases, and still talking infantry. If it were just infantry vs. infantry it wouldn't be so bad, but the general lack of vehicles is a major problem. You have "hoppers" for moving troops and the Argo (dune buggy), that's about it, and maybe if you used shuttles in a support role.

Hence the need to invent new units for the ST ground forces... the more they would seem to "fit" the better, of course.


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Old 01-30-2006, 03:07 PM   #53
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To help with unit creation/design for the MOD, here are two websites with a decent amount of Star Trek military information:

www.ditl.org AND www.treknology.org.

The treknology website has grounds units, but most are non-canon, they do, however, conform to canonical standards.

Hope those links help!

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Old 01-30-2006, 04:59 PM   #54
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Yeah, non-canon firepower figures can be ignored (I believe DITL differentiates between canon and speculation), essentially we need something that works for THIS game. But that could be a good source for ideas on how to fill in the gaps. None of this crazy "turbolasers would go right through Federation ships without damage" stuff.


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Old 01-30-2006, 06:00 PM   #55
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That alternate reality from Trek you mentioned, Kurgan? It's now in the Star Wars universe too! Read my fic!

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. I would love to be able to pwn a star destroyer with Voyager or the Enterprise!
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:15 PM   #56
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Well I think "pwn" is too strong a word in this case, but we'll let it slide. Such a small ship probably couldn't take on an ISD on its own, even in this game!


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Old 01-30-2006, 06:31 PM   #57
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Well, I gave those links just as references, I.E. conceptual ideas for units. It'd be pretty hard to model this game after a realistic interpretation of the two universes (calculations from on screen evidence -- yes there's people that calculate it -- show a strong indication that Star Wars ships have powers well beyond anything in Star Trek), since Star Trek would be wiped out in the first few seconds. :-D.

Rather, whoever is working on this MOD will have to figure out a proper balancing scheme, but right now, I just hope we fill in the gaps for all the Trek races included.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:39 PM   #58
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Smile

I agree. Credit should of course be given to the folks on those sites who came up with the ideas in question if they are used. I agree, this would probably be "fudged" in favor of gameplay balance rather than "realism" based on calculations from canon. I mean after the mod is finished (if it's ever started and finished) you COULD sit down and make your own version that was more "realistic" by adjusting the stats. Just for fun... But the main work is creating the models and textures with the new faction, once you've decided which ones you're going to make and how they'll work.

I still think the easiest way to do it would be just to combine the Trek "races" together into one side. Unless you wanted to do a "Star Trek Total Conversion" where everything was changed into something from Star Trek, which would be a whole different animal. But I think ST vs SW is just a cooler idea.

So somebody get those former ST vs SW modders on the phone and get them in here...


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Old 01-30-2006, 06:41 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Well I think "pwn" is too strong a word in this case, but we'll let it slide. Such a small ship probably couldn't take on an ISD on its own, even in this game!
I've seen that argument before somewhere.... the Trekkies won.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:59 PM   #60
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I thought it would be cooler to have multiple sides involved in the conflict. Get the Imperials, Rebs, Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (or whomever) in one big free for all (assuming the game is moddable to that faction extent).

This would also add expanded capability to the skirmish mode, where players could play just ST battles if they wanted, or Empire vs (spinoff -- not just Fed) battles, etc.

Yeah, it's more work, but it would make the mod far more worthwhile in the long run. Although, I suppose just to start it off, you could do Empire versus Federation -- since those two sides are the first thought to clash, etc.
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:41 PM   #61
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I've seen that argument before somewhere.... the Trekkies won.

I'd like to see it. From where I'm standing, even if the ISD somehow never fought back, the Enterprise (E? D?) or Voyager would simply run out of ordinance before the ship was destroyed (and I don't mean completely vaporized, because that would be impossible for the tiny ship, rather I mean unable to fight or escape... I mean sure they could ram the bridge with self destruct on, but even that action would not stop the ship since they could still continue to fight, though losing your primary bridge crew certainly isn't anything to sneeze at, and that's all assuming they can even break through the shields beforehand). The rationale people use to defend the incredible power of the ISD has to do with its surviving asteroid hits and destroying asteroids so easily (plus there's numbers stated in official sources, but I'm saying based on direct observation of the movies alone). It's sheer size alone compared to the common Trek ships makes a big difference!

I'm not wishing to get into a numbers war on ST vs SW, but go see for yourself for the size comparison.

Here's a pic I made from that very site for easier comparison.


And yes, that tiny blob in the upper right is Voyager! I suppose you might try to argue that Voyager has taken on large ships before, like Borg cubes, but remember how nerfed they had to be for Voyager to be able to take them on (it took entire FLEETS to beat Borg cubes previously in the show), and in almost all cases they used some kind of technobabble to win anyway, which can't really be used in a discussion like this, or else you'd have to give that benefit to the Empire as well (besides, who's to say they know as much about the Empire as the Borg, whom they've been fighting for decades).

In a real fight, the ISD is bristling with turbolasers, each with enough power to disable an unshielded ship the size of the Enterprise-D quite easily in one shot (notice how they did just that to the Tantive IV, which is about the size of Voyager). Forget what you've seen in Rogue Squadron and the X-Wing games. A single snub fighter cannot take down a capital ship in combat unless the people on the capital ship commit suicide! In the movies it took other capital ships and/or concentrated bombardment by bombers to do that kind of damage. Likewise an exploration warship like the Enterprise couldn't do it alone.

And if their goal is simply destruction, target their warp core, boom! The ISD also has tractor beam projectors, ion cannons and can launch fighters. Perhaps a fleet could stand a better chance, but anyway, this is really a job for the game, not debaters.


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Old 01-30-2006, 11:44 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyraeth
I thought it would be cooler to have multiple sides involved in the conflict. Get the Imperials, Rebs, Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (or whomever) in one big free for all (assuming the game is moddable to that faction extent).

This would also add expanded capability to the skirmish mode, where players could play just ST battles if they wanted, or Empire vs (spinoff -- not just Fed) battles, etc.

Yeah, it's more work, but it would make the mod far more worthwhile in the long run. Although, I suppose just to start it off, you could do Empire versus Federation -- since those two sides are the first thought to clash, etc.

Well once you create the new unit (i.e: rather than just replacing the in-game ones with Star Trek ones) you could use the level editing capability (when we get it) to create new levels with those Trek units, and thus your Trek only missions or whatever. But see most people are going to want to see what happens with those other factions. So you'll need to do all the popular matchups. Borg vs. Rebels, Dominion vs. Empire, united Alpha/Beta Quadrants vs. the Empire, Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta quadrants vs. the Empire, etc.

It'd be like doing a Marvel Vs. DC grudge match and only getting to see Superman vs. Hulk! You've got to eventually do the other stuff...


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Old 01-31-2006, 03:24 PM   #63
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sounds like an interesting idea

well, i am not that deep into Star Trek, but i am also no uberb00n

if we would concentrate on the space fight, the federation has no chance against the empire / new republic (even the old republic)

maybe the cloaking devices are quite helpful as there is nothing similar in Star Wars (at least not in the movies)
beaming could enable hit and run attacks

but i think that the borg would have a quite good chance
they could lose one or two cubes due to the death star but if they get used to it, no chance

all in all, you guys have forgotten one big thing

the almighty force
could a borg stand against a lightsaber?
maybe, but let's not forget lightning and grip and mind control

and as there are no small ships (except the shuttles), they couldn't even attack the vulnerability of the death star
or what would they do against enemy fighter squadrons (like the X,Y,A,B-Wing?)

doesn't matter, they don't even have something against the good ol force
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:04 PM   #64
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Ok im somewhat of a Trekkie, and in the EU of star trek, most starships are equipped with marine corps and fighters. which makes them someone of a formidable force. the sovereign class alone could take out the heavy frigates with 1/2 torpedos and its phaser banks could easily target the fighters, but might be hard to actually use them. Now there are the Jem Hadar fighters of the Dominion who could infact be the leading force against rebel/imp fighters


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Old 01-31-2006, 04:50 PM   #65
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Well, I'll throw in my two cents...

To make this sort of thing feasible we need some sort of tie in, I mean we can't just say "Ta-Da, Star Wars vs Star Trek"... No... So, since Star Wars is a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we can build on that... So... Eliminate the 'Long Time Ago' factor and we're left with "Far, far away"... With that said, depending on what the game can allow, we could create a "planet" and call it a wormhole, with the ability to build a space station around it, this wormhole would lead to our galaxy, which on the other end would be an area which another space station could be built (See Deep Space Nine), and restrict movement so that all intergalactic travels MUST go through that point... (Man I'd enjoy writing the story on this, mission by mission....)

Now we have the universes connected... Then comes the balancing act... Because of how complex the Star Wars ships are, they take longer to build, this is proven through Rebellion, so keep Star Wars ship priced higher and take longer to build, while the Star Trek vessels would take less time and be cheaper do to their ease of construction...

Next part? The forces involved. The two universes pretty much have diplomacies inorder to make things happen... So, if the Federation and the Empire were to meet, we'd need some kind of ground that makes them have to have a war for inter-galactic domination... The Empire generally views non-humans as slaves or low on thespecies chain, except some such as Thrawn, and so on... So, Empire meets Federation, Federation is an alliance of planets of humans and non-humans... Empire doesn't like this and goes to war on two fronts, againt the Rebel alliance, and the Federation Star Trek Universe... We will assume the Emperor is alive at this time and that he is the driving force of this war... As the Empire begins invading the Star Trek galaxy, the Empire outsources some of the jobs relating to the harvesting of money, and such, to the Hutts, who contract jobs out to smugglers, who encounter and bring back Ferengi, who piss off the Hutts who really begin to back the Empire, as the Ferengi now back the Federation/their own cause..... As the Rebels send a fleet to investigate they discover the worm hole on their own get attack by cloaked Romulans... The Rebels forge a temporary alliance with the Empire combining both Imperial and Alliance forces in a joint attack on the Star Trek galaxy... With the Romulan scouts being destroyed the Romulans fight the Federation and its cohorts for control of the worm hole, while eventually giving in and forging their own temporary alliance against the Star Wars Universe....

Enter the Borg.... As the Star Wars galaxy pushes their way deeper and deeper into the Star Trek galaxy they finally encounter traces of the borg, who have gained an interest in this battle and begin to assimilate both sides... And so on...

Species 8472 would be kept out of all of this because although they're neat and would give the Star Wars empire a run for their money, they would not align themselves with either side, so if they WERE included, they'd need to be the pirates, where they go in **** all over the fight and leave....
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Old 02-12-2006, 05:25 AM   #66
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**** the storyline, who needs one. Federation vs Empire/Federation vs Rebellion simple as poo.
You could then go on to add the borg as a forth faction as it would be interesting to use. Balance the sides forget the 'real' figures

i would work on this mod (coder) i am experienced with Cnc Generals ini and can do most of EAW xml
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Old 02-12-2006, 05:16 PM   #67
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Wouldn't the Federation join on the rebel side and not the Imperial side?




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Old 02-13-2006, 01:39 AM   #68
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I would have thought so. Although I have seen a couple of mods that have Feds vs Rebels vs Imperials (ie free-for-all).
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Old 02-13-2006, 05:56 AM   #69
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well maybe in the campains (if any) and galactic conquest but in skirmish it should be free for all. there need be no story there need be work models etc to get people interested
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:49 AM   #70
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A simular mod was created for the Star Trek Armada games. It'll be good if you can pull off a well balanced game especially since the Star Trek technology is supposed to be far more advanced than Star Wars.

Best of luck.

Last edited by rderveloy; 02-14-2006 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:48 PM   #71
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Arrow

They just announced a new Star Trek RTS game called 'Star Trek: Legacy'.
Here is the link:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...acy/index.html
so I hope that this can please you trekkies.

*btw, I think that Empire at War will kick the above games' ass!


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Old 02-16-2006, 02:02 PM   #72
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Based on?


Anyway, that game looks good to, it sounds like it'll be more in-depth than Armada and the ships will have more staying power, especially interested in the idea of spanning the entire period between Enterprise to post-Nemesis.
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Old 02-16-2006, 02:16 PM   #73
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Yeah, there have been rumours of it being a ST:FC and Armada cross. I just wish the graphics were much better.
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:05 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
I'd like to see it. From where I'm standing, even if the ISD somehow never fought back, the Enterprise (E? D?) or Voyager would simply run out of ordinance before the ship was destroyed (and I don't mean completely vaporized, because that would be impossible for the tiny ship, rather I mean unable to fight or escape... I mean sure they could ram the bridge with self destruct on, but even that action would not stop the ship since they could still continue to fight, though losing your primary bridge crew certainly isn't anything to sneeze at, and that's all assuming they can even break through the shields beforehand). The rationale people use to defend the incredible power of the ISD has to do with its surviving asteroid hits and destroying asteroids so easily (plus there's numbers stated in official sources, but I'm saying based on direct observation of the movies alone). It's sheer size alone compared to the common Trek ships makes a big difference!

I'm not wishing to get into a numbers war on ST vs SW, but go see for yourself for the size comparison.

Here's a pic I made from that very site for easier comparison.


And yes, that tiny blob in the upper right is Voyager! I suppose you might try to argue that Voyager has taken on large ships before, like Borg cubes, but remember how nerfed they had to be for Voyager to be able to take them on (it took entire FLEETS to beat Borg cubes previously in the show), and in almost all cases they used some kind of technobabble to win anyway, which can't really be used in a discussion like this, or else you'd have to give that benefit to the Empire as well (besides, who's to say they know as much about the Empire as the Borg, whom they've been fighting for decades).

In a real fight, the ISD is bristling with turbolasers, each with enough power to disable an unshielded ship the size of the Enterprise-D quite easily in one shot (notice how they did just that to the Tantive IV, which is about the size of Voyager). Forget what you've seen in Rogue Squadron and the X-Wing games. A single snub fighter cannot take down a capital ship in combat unless the people on the capital ship commit suicide! In the movies it took other capital ships and/or concentrated bombardment by bombers to do that kind of damage. Likewise an exploration warship like the Enterprise couldn't do it alone.

And if their goal is simply destruction, target their warp core, boom! The ISD also has tractor beam projectors, ion cannons and can launch fighters. Perhaps a fleet could stand a better chance, but anyway, this is really a job for the game, not debaters.
You are forgetting that in 'Our' galaxy, the Star Trek galaxy (I refer to 'ours' because Star Trek is set in our galaxy...etc.) lasers are COMPLETELY obsolete.

If you really wanted a critical, scientific look at it, read the 'story' on that dtl.org or whatever...>_>...about the fight between Federation and Empire.

The Federation has superior technology, centuries ahead of the Star Wars universe. Why?

Four words.

'A Long time Ago...'

Yeah, so seeing as how Star Trek is in the future, and Star Wars is in the past, I'm going to have to agree with that story. But on the same note, Star Trek universe would lose a lot of ground since it doesn't have enough numbers to combat the hundreds of thousands of Imperial/Republic ships.
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Old 02-17-2006, 04:29 PM   #75
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Really a great idea !

It was always my dream to mix the two universe so where's the link to download it :P
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Old 02-17-2006, 07:05 PM   #76
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Star Wars lasers were more than 5 Trillion times powerful than Star Trek lasers. http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html



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Old 02-20-2006, 06:33 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Kurgan
Well once you create the new unit (i.e: rather than just replacing the in-game ones with Star Trek ones) you could use the level editing capability (when we get it) to create new levels with those Trek units, and thus your Trek only missions or whatever. But see most people are going to want to see what happens with those other factions. So you'll need to do all the popular matchups. Borg vs. Rebels, Dominion vs. Empire, united Alpha/Beta Quadrants vs. the Empire, Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta quadrants vs. the Empire, etc.

It'd be like doing a Marvel Vs. DC grudge match and only getting to see Superman vs. Hulk! You've got to eventually do the other stuff...
No, no, no, you're missing the point. ;-). The idea is to setup all the sides and let players choose their matchups. Play the galactic conquest game with all the factions, or setup a skirmish between the Borg vs. Empire, Rebels vs. Borg, Federation vs. Empire, etc.

Yeah, I really hope this MOD undergoes development.
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:16 AM   #78
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Balance > Lore. Nuff said.

TB.
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Old 02-21-2006, 03:06 PM   #79
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I think that a SW vs. new battlestar galatica universe would be better, the ships would be of comparable size, the galatica type of ships don't use energy based weapons and even have nukes (at least not the new ones and I like the new series way better then the old) not to mention that if you also brought the cylons into it. But they dont have shields.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:41 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Sith
Star Wars lasers were more than 5 Trillion times powerful than Star Trek lasers. http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Major races in Trek use phasers, polaron beams and disruptors, not lasers.

Anyway, I've seen that site, I do agree that the Empire would likely be able to defeat most of the major powers in Trek (excluding God beings and super races like the Borg and Species 8472 of course), but then again the Star Wars galaxy dwellers have had FTL capability for THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of years, it's not surprising they would be able to overpower the Federation which has only existed for several hundred years.

Although, I will say that I think the Federation is progressing at such a rapid rate (supported by fleeting glimpses of the future such as the 31st Century) it won't be long before they surpass their counterparts in the Star Wars galaxy.
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