lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Using Canon Endings for KOTOR III
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 09-06-2005, 08:52 PM   #1
Traveler
Rookie
 
Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
Using Canon Endings for KOTOR III

I noticed that, on wikipedia's site, they seem to believe that the "canon" endings for the first two KOTOR games were LSM based. I'm not sure if they're very reliable to begin with, but in any event, I wonder if the developer would ever consider incorporating the canon stories for either the Exile or Revan into KOTOR 3.

I suppose it might piss off some KOTOR fans, but from the dev side, it would certainly make things easier. I could see the devs pouring over all the possibilities from the first two games and thinking, "Screw this. They were both LSM, ok?"

Personally, I guess it wouldn't really bother me. If the previous LSM endings are actually canon, then there really is only one legit ending anyway.

What do you think? Would it affect your decision to buy the game if they made any major assumptions about how you played the previous games( i.e. made one or both characters LSM)?
Traveler is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-06-2005, 08:58 PM   #2
Mira Dona
Rookie
 
Mira Dona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hiding in your house
Posts: 133
Personally I hate the cannon endings and as far as I'm concerned they are total crap. If the devs decided to just go with the cannon endings and "screw" everything else, I would deffinately not buy it.

But I'm sure that the devs are smart enough not to do something so stupid, and considering that they haven't done it before in K2, I doubt they will do it in k3.


"Some see how things are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that have never been and ask, 'Why not?'" - Robert F. Kennedy



In my mind's eye, 3P0.
Mira Dona is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-06-2005, 09:17 PM   #3
Commas
Junior Member
 
Commas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: If you're going to San Francisco, Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair...
Posts: 320
it wouldn't really make a difference to me since i played a LSM in both games, but there are a lot of folks who didn't, who would be angry if the devs did this. besides, considering that they were able to pull it off with K2, i doubt that they would deviate much and do the same in K3

K3 will be pretty much exactly the same as K1 and K2 were, with minor tweaks. the biggest change i could see happening would be a graphics change, but the devs know enough not to deviate from the established systems of K1 and K2, be it the way the game is played, or how the story works. they will find a way to account for all alignments and genders of the previous games.


Zaphod Beeblebrox is my hero
DOWNLOAD THE STUFF I MADE!
Commas is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-06-2005, 09:45 PM   #4
fresnosmokey02
Rookie
 
fresnosmokey02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 104
Just because wikipedia says they're canon does not make them so. They only did this to be able to put them in the whole Star Wars timeline, at least the timeline according to them. IMO no path or ending for either game is more valid than any other. When they do make K3 they will have to make *some* assumptions about the NPC's from the previous games and the Ebon Hawk and whatever else, but they will have both a dark path and a light path in the game, and the assumptions they make will not really affect the game at all.
fresnosmokey02 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-06-2005, 10:38 PM   #5
Darth333
Administraterror
 
Darth333's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In my secret dungeon...
Posts: 8,295
For me Revan is Female and the Exile male. I think it woul d be a bad move to retain the LS male for both games. They would also have to pick an appearance and after spending hours and hours building characters, a lot of players would not be happy about it.
Darth333 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-07-2005, 05:19 AM   #6
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Personally, I think LA might have to change their stance concerning cannon endings, but I think we would all have a better chance of winning a powerball lottery!

But either way I don't really care what LA calls cannon... We all know what our Revan and Exile were, and that is all that really matters, to me anyway!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-07-2005, 10:55 AM   #7
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,363
Current Game: Skyrim, Vector Thrust
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler
I noticed that, on wikipedia's site, they seem to believe that the "canon" endings for the first two KOTOR games were LSM based.
They are correct. Lucasarts has officially stated that the LSM storyline is the canon version, and that is the same for all Star Wars games where applicable, (Like the JK series). The reason they do that is so the KOTOR stories can be used in the overall Star Wars lore as a concrete series of events.

I don't see what the big deal is really. Revan is considered a LSM in the EU, but the developers still gave you the option to have whatever you want. They could have made it like the JK series and made the sequels completely disregard the dark side endings...

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-07-2005, 12:57 PM   #8
Bob Lion54
Jr. Malkavian Detective
 
Bob Lion54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the case! Both my minds!
Posts: 2,105
Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
........We all know what our Revan and Exile were, and that is all that really matters, to me anyway!
Hehehe, To me Revan will always be my PC from my first playthrough. I played the game both Male and Female with different heads, but to me, the one I used the first time IS Revan. Same goes for the Exile, too.

Although,I would like it if before you started the game, a few questions would pop up. Like so:

Was Ravan a man or a woman?
1. Man
2. Woman
3. What are you talking about?

Was the Exile a man or a woman?
1. Woman
2. Man
3. Still no clue?!?!

Same goes for DS/LS endings. To me, Atton's questions seemed akward. I'd rather just chose the options from the "get go." Plus, IF they make more than three games, it might be easier that way as they get to game 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11.......35............(hehehe, yea, I wish!)


Bob Lion54 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-08-2005, 01:30 AM   #9
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
^^^^
Unfortunately, most players don't want to take an exam just to play a game.

The way they did it with Atton was about as slick as they could do it, since all it does is set global numbers... I would expect some more conversations like this with an NPC or two in the third installment.

It really isn't that bothersome, we know what the conversation is doing and at least it is a softer blow than a blatant 20-questions session at the games beginning, for a FPS sequel to like JK:JA this would be acceptable, but that would be a lot less professional for an RPG to do, to me anyway.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-08-2005, 02:55 PM   #10
IndianaSolo
Rookie
 
IndianaSolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
They are correct. Lucasarts has officially stated that the LSM storyline is the canon version, and that is the same for all Star Wars games where applicable, (Like the JK series). The reason they do that is so the KOTOR stories can be used in the overall Star Wars lore as a concrete series of events.
Actually, I don't think the Exile's gender has been 100% finalized yet. Revan is LSM, but Exile is still being debated about. Tasty Taste (Lelland Chee, the continuity guru for LFL) on the official Star Wars forums said he's pushing for a female Exile to be canon.

As for the topic, IMO whichever works best for the story. If they can craft a beautiful story around having the gender being open to choose from, great. But if the story would be that much better if they chose the canon gender/alignment for Revan and Exile, great. I see Revan and the Exile as a specific alignment and gender, but I'm flexible enough to overlook it if the story makes sense.
IndianaSolo is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-08-2005, 04:45 PM   #11
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,363
Current Game: Skyrim, Vector Thrust
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaSolo
Actually, I don't think the Exile's gender has been 100% finalized yet. Revan is LSM, but Exile is still being debated about. Tasty Taste (Lelland Chee, the continuity guru for LFL) on the official Star Wars forums said he's pushing for a female Exile to be canon.
Do you have a link for that? I'd like to read it.

In any event, Lucasarts stated stance on games and canon is that the Male Light Side version is canon. Whether they follow that for TSL remains to be seen.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-09-2005, 08:46 AM   #12
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
First of all I don't think LA or anybody else should declare one ending canon. And I really don't want to see fixed endings for K3, all endings should remain possible. I also don't want them to change how the characters feel, like they did in K2 with Revan (the whole he went DS to save the Republic BS). Quite simply Revan went DS because he felt like it. And I'm not really in the habit of having my characters go through surgery if that is required for the story. With the exception of Carth who instead of being killed can go through surgery in front of the Sith troops, during the DS K1 ending.
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-09-2005, 02:36 PM   #13
IndianaSolo
Rookie
 
IndianaSolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Do you have a link for that? I'd like to read it.
Ask and ye shall receive:

Tasty Taste states he's pushing for female Exile here.

Excerpt:

Quote:
I'm certainly pushing for the KOTOR2 player character to be female, but nothing yet has been decided. Coming up with a name would be a whole 'nother issue though.
There's also some links within that thread where some of Tasty Taste's other posts point towards the various questions of what gender/alignment Revan was, etc.
IndianaSolo is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-11-2005, 08:02 PM   #14
BattleDog
Terrible in War
 
BattleDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Roleplayer 
I think there's a subtle hint to what Reven was in K2 manual. On page one there's a picture of a Jedi, its the shaved-headed-white-guy-with-scar-under-eye from K1. You know its from K1 because the similar head in K2 is blond.

I know there's a corrupted dark side version of the same guy on page twenty three but the light sider is the first thing you see when you open the cover of the manual.


Fly Fast,
Shoot Straight,
Live Long!
BattleDog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-12-2005, 04:11 AM   #15
REDJOHNNYMIKE
Destroyer of Burfday!
 
REDJOHNNYMIKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Your liver... and a hobgoblin's jugular... simultaneously
Posts: 2,967
The simple solution which is the most likely, due to time and work, will be to play as one, with a few very early options in which your actions will determine your previous character, something will happen, and you'll be back at level 1 again, then you'll talk to someone, during conversation you'll explain your history and how and why you are where you are, then, this could be either immediate, or worked in slowly, you will eventually explain the other's history or follow the pattern of TSL, either way you will learn something you never would have dreamed of before (they did leave that open for both characters)

My choice though would be to choose Revan or Exile at the start of the game and have two different stories playable, you will use each of them to piece events together, and as a combined product, you will partake of a third story which you use both, one, or the other, every single variation of these will yield a unique story, resulting in replayability hours in the high hundreds, with a streamlined version for the impatient (all side quests optional)

I would have to disagree with D though about Revan, simply because Bastila is a better story choice than Carth, there didn't seem to be as much interaction with him as Bastila, leading me to believe that male was the intended gender, even though there was good support for female as well,
I think it is the reverse, Revan M, Exile F, seeing how their respective strengths are Power and Manipulation (yeah kinda a joke, but still a little sense to it.)


The Binary Theory of Life: Inside the box = bad... Outside the box = good...
Sanity is the highest form of oppression.
REDJOHNNYMIKE is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-12-2005, 07:43 PM   #16
Traveler
Rookie
 
Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13
That's an interesting idea, but it would be virtually impossible to script for all of the possibilities from the first two games while including both the Exile and Revan as playable characters in the third game. You would almost certainly have to make some assumptions about the way the previous games were played to make that happen.

That said, I would ultimately rather see the devs incorporate a canon ending into a K3 game instead of trying to handle completely open ended stories from both games. I know that leaving both characters ambiguous avoids offending anyone, but the story could turn into an unintelligible mess as a result. But, who knows, maybe they'll come up with something more clever than I think.
Traveler is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-12-2005, 07:57 PM   #17
Jamps
Junior Member
 
Jamps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 440
For 'canon' purposes, why not make them both LSM? Since there are problems in both games which refer to them as he, just set it up as the 'canon' way of the story.

But that doesn't mean people can't enjoy the game with any gender/alignment. It's just the light side male thing seems to be 'canon' as far as the storytelling and dialogue problems go.

Oh, as for K3, forget forcing one alignment/gender to the previous characters. Have the quiz thing for people so they can enjoy the previous characters. Let everyone continue as they played the first two. A female player who did darkside is going to have NO idea what people are talking about, but of course set a 'canon' for the character.
Jamps is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-12-2005, 08:43 PM   #18
Soogz
Forumite
 
Soogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 506
Current Game: Fifa 09
Seriously I don't realy care, considering I play Light Side.


Soogz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-13-2005, 02:30 AM   #19
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sooges
Seriously I don't realy care, considering I play Light Side.
Me neither, and I play DS Females!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-13-2005, 03:02 AM   #20
REDJOHNNYMIKE
Destroyer of Burfday!
 
REDJOHNNYMIKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Your liver... and a hobgoblin's jugular... simultaneously
Posts: 2,967
Well, a quiz will totally screw up the experience for a newcomer, which is something you always want, newcomers, not bad experiences.

@traveler, it wouldn't be that bad if it was done as a continuing part of gameplay mechanics, it doesn't have to be to detailed, the history probably won't remember wether or not you talked with a janitor, or helped some guy who was getting mugged.

Look at the series as a tree, with KI as the stump, each branch will require more work, but there will be a comfortable branch for everyone.

@redhawke, BRILYUNT


The Binary Theory of Life: Inside the box = bad... Outside the box = good...
Sanity is the highest form of oppression.
REDJOHNNYMIKE is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-13-2005, 09:45 AM   #21
fresnosmokey02
Rookie
 
fresnosmokey02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 104
Quizzes really aren't necessary. In K2 you have to answer a couple of questions from Atton, but I noticed it really doesn't matter. When talking to people, Revan sounds vaguely darkside no matter how you answered the questions from Atton. It would be an easy thing in K3 to say that Revan accomplished this and that task and Exile accomplished this or that thing and be vague about their alignments or even not mention them (the alignments) at all.
fresnosmokey02 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-14-2005, 12:49 AM   #22
REDJOHNNYMIKE
Destroyer of Burfday!
 
REDJOHNNYMIKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Your liver... and a hobgoblin's jugular... simultaneously
Posts: 2,967
I think the reason Revan sounds vaguely darkside, because that was the galactic public opinion of him, all people know is that he attacked the republic, even though their were implications that he could have had a more lightside reason that the war in some way fought or defended against a "greater evil" somewhere, if that was the case, it wouldn't be public knowledge as secrecy would be key to it's success.


The Binary Theory of Life: Inside the box = bad... Outside the box = good...
Sanity is the highest form of oppression.
REDJOHNNYMIKE is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-14-2005, 07:10 PM   #23
Soogz
Forumite
 
Soogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 506
Current Game: Fifa 09
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Me neither, and I play DS Females!


hahah same here. When I need to play darkside. I only play female.


Soogz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > The Unknown Regions > Using Canon Endings for KOTOR III

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:44 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.