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Old 09-29-2005, 04:49 PM   #1
Vladimir-Vlada
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This has gone too far...

I have noticed that most people are arguing about what should be or not be in KOTOR 3. And I have changed my opinion to something different, let me explain:

KOTOR, as a game, was made to impress everyone. It was meant to have all people praise it's virtues and complain a little about it's flaws. During the development of KOTOR 1 and 2, most people didn't complain how it would look like, because no one didn't know or had any expectations, so everything was fine. But when there came a possibility of KOTOR 3 and the story, virtues and flaws of KOTOR; everyone went: "WE WANT THIS and WE WANT THAT!/YOU CAN'T HAVE THIS and YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT!" flaming and comments.

Now KOTOR 3 has been reduced from it's previous title of unique game which is favored by everyone to a giant money-bag filling fan pleaser. To worst part of it is: that now it can only please one group. So then after it's realease, some fans will be disapointed, others will be enlighted. And they will be divided into enemy groups, where they will flame each other at how is it supposed to be and how it was supposed to be.

So the honor of KOTOR has been ruined, because of our spoilness and bratiness.

So I am asking everyone these questions: "Why is everyone making such a big fuss about it? and Who is going to satisfy our expectations?"

I like KOTOR 1 and 2. And they were great unique games that were the best of all times; but now they are money-bag filling fan pleasers. But they would only please one group.

So I have thought up and think that we have ruined enough KOTOR's honor and title, so I have a wish:

I DON'T WANT KOTOR 3 TO BE MADE

This is also a message to the developer team. Dev's, don't make KOTOR 3, you will save a lot of people from disapointment, flaming and save a great games honor.

So, let's cut it out already. I think that KOTOR is good as it is.
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Old 09-29-2005, 05:43 PM   #2
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I can see where wher your coming from, but i want to know what happens to the exile and revan, they left us at a cliff hanger, they kinda have to make it


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Old 09-29-2005, 06:31 PM   #3
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I don't know why you would say that. I mean, as killwithhonor said, they left a LOT of room and unanswered questions for a sequel. Besides, I don't think that all this terrible stuff is going to happen, since I bet that there will people who thought K2 should have been different and I will also bet there are people who think it was great. I really don't think that they should leave a tremendous series unfinished just because, as you said, our spoiledness and bratiness. And if K3 came out, I don't give a care if you are playing the Exile, Revan, or a totally new PC, or if you are playing as Atton or Juhani or even Suvam Tan. I'd buy it anyways, because I have some faith that whoever will make it won't mess it up completely or leave the storyline unfinished.
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Old 09-29-2005, 08:02 PM   #4
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I personally think you're insane saying you don't want Kotor 3 to be made =/

That would have been like saying "I don't want ROTS to be released because we all know what happens" back before May. Sure we know what happens, but we want to see what other things happen, what new battles will occur etc. Sorry but I really just don't see how Kotor 3 can be a bad thing. Lucasarts hasn't let us down with the Kotor franchise yet and seeing as how K2's storyline was full of holes K3 should obviously fill in those holes.

Just my 2 cents however *sigh*


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Old 09-29-2005, 08:02 PM   #5
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I don't see a ton of flaming on this board so I don't know where you get that. I see some but I've seen a LOT worse. Not since I started posting here. I see mostly positive feedback and great ideas on this forum for the next game and the previous two. KOTOR III will be made whether you want it to be made or not Vladimir. Lucasarts makes too much money with this series and the critical accolades from leading game critics indicate that the third one is inevitable. Most of us here know it and the vast majority of us will be happy with it no matter what.
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Old 09-29-2005, 08:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The_Maker
That would have been like saying "I don't want ROTS to be released because we [i]all[/i ]know what happens" back before May. Sorry but I really just don't see how Kotor 3 can be a bad thing. Lucasarts hasn't let us down with the Kotor franchise yet and seeing as how K2's storyline was full of holes K3 should obviously fill in those holes.

Just my 2 cents however *sigh*
Exactly right. Good point(s).
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Old 09-29-2005, 08:33 PM   #7
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You know, if you don't want to buy the game, don't buy it, if you don't like the posts on this site, don't read them. It's as simple as that. I am not saying this angrily, just a statement of fact. If and when K3 gets made, most people will be happy just to have the game. No matter what direction the game or the story goes. I for one will definately buy it and probably play the crap out of it, even if it doesn't follow what I want. It probably won't anyway. I am not working on the game. The vision, the scope, the storyline, and the quality are up to the developers. Quite frankly it really wouldn't be much fun to play for me if they used all my ideas and that goes the same for everyone else. You play these games to learn the story, to figure out optimum play. You can't do that if the game is made totally to your specifications. It's much more fun to go into the game not knowing those kinds of details. If one or two of my, your, our ideas do get incorporated into the game, It will be almost certainly be coincidental.

And I haven't seen anyone flame or get flamed on this board. I have seen one or two "You're a moron" or "You're an idiot". But so what? I see no anger or hatred. Just mild disagreement. Big deal.

The point is that the developers are going to make the game they're going to make. We're all going to buy it and we'll all be happy we got the game and we'll have a good time playing it. Period.
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:36 PM   #8
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I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you, Vladimir.

See, when KotOR II came out, and I saw that you were the Exile instead of Revan or Bastila or someone, I was like 'man, this is BS'. But then, I got playing it and found it just as enjoyable as K1. Albiet the story wasn't as great, but it was a very quick release date...

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that no matter what the developers do with K3, I'm sure that it will work. Just as RobQuel-Droma said, I have trust that the developer won't screw it up completely. So, while I would rather Exile be the PC, I would be just fine with a new character. Either way, I'm buying and playing that game.


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Old 09-29-2005, 10:44 PM   #9
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:15 AM   #10
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@ Vlad- but why spoil the fun for everyone else?? just because you're frustrated with everyone else's differing opinions doesn't mean the game shouldn't be made.

and i'm seriously wondering why this game can't just appeal to the fans. Kotor I recieved multiple GotY awards while Kotor II recieved many RPGotY awards which is credit to both games' abilities to appeal to a broad spectrum of gamers. if Kotor III stays true to the formula established in the previous games, i highly doubt that it wouldn't appeal to a broad spectrum of gamers.


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Old 09-30-2005, 01:22 AM   #11
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Vlad, no offense meant buddy, but what your accusing us of doing is the exact same thing that you do when you cry out against stuff like capitalism.
It's a fact that people want their voice to be heard, and they think this is the best place to do it.
We all post here because we want the game to follow (while still being revolutionary of course) what our own vision of KotOR is, wether it's stuff we wish we had before, or the purging of what annoyed us.
Even if they don't want to use our ideas, we at least have the hope that if the developers did read our posts then they may get inspiration for something even we never would've dreamed of...


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Old 09-30-2005, 04:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killwithhonor
I can see where wher your coming from, but i want to know what happens to the exile and revan, they left us at a cliff hanger, they kinda have to make it
I really couldn't care less about the exile and revan. They have already served their purpose. In my mind I already know what their fates are. Their mysteriousness is what makes them great and interesting characters.

What I want from KotoR 3 is a Star Wars Role Playing Game. In which I assume the role of a character and then have the freedom to play him in any way I want and to develop him in any way I want. I want to explore the Star Wars galaxy on my own with a character to my liking.

That's the point of a Role Playing Game.


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Old 09-30-2005, 07:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
Who is going to satisfy our expectations?"
We are. (if you mean anything beyond having a mostly-functioning game) I don't think anyone on the boards genuinely expects to be the deciding factor in any plotpoints or features or anything. Fans are excited about a new game, theres nothing wrong with that. You could find more flaming at a frat-house if you asked "Padme or Leah?"

I can appreciate you wanting a more free RPG experience in the EU. Being an old-school role-player, I'm with you. In the same light, the more the merrier. as long as we can mod. However, that sounds like a more complicated and costly product, that tech and method may not be up to yet... not to mention the original creator's desire for continuity within the inspired story-line. ...and since they're all made to make a profit, I don't understand where the honor comes into it, except perhaps from the untold hours of passion-driven, FREE, work done by the mod-com. theres honor... the rest was business. If you honor the original inspiration, then why are you so eager to make it 'entirely' your own with a free-rein-RPG in which, it would be impossible to maintain the aforementioned continuity, without limiting your gameplay to 'small' events? in which case try galaxies. at any rate...It seems kinda petty and spiteful to request not developing a game because fan discussions offend your fan sensibilities, and because LA hasn't catered to your desires more. spoiled brattiness indeed. ease up, dude... maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from the threads that frustrate you for a while.
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Old 09-30-2005, 10:21 AM   #14
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I think it should be made. It will be fun.

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Old 09-30-2005, 10:37 AM   #15
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I would like to be a wookiee though.... rip off arms and club people with them.


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Old 09-30-2005, 10:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CrudeMatter
if you asked "Padme or Leah?"
To which I happily reply, "Both!"
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BumpoTheHutt
To which I happily reply, "Both!"
lol I sit corrected. who's gonna disagree with that? I was going to say "new thread?" lol...but, thats pretty much the thread, no?
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:54 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
To worst part of it is: that now it can only please one group. So then after it's realease, some fans will be disapointed, others will be enlighted.
A game can never please to everyone, there will always be people who will like it and others who will not. If they were to only make games that please to everyone, there would be no games at all. I consider that having no Kotor 3 would be a greater disappointment than having one...

Quote:
And they will be divided into enemy groups, where they will flame each other at how is it supposed to be and how it was supposed to be.
It's not because someone doesn't like something that I like that he/she becomes my ennemy debating is not flaming. A good old debate can be fun when the discussion remains civilized.
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:41 PM   #19
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Making a game that everyone likes is impossible. For one thing, there are people that will hate it no matter how good it is. There are also people who will like it no matter how crappy it is.

Hmmmmmm..........

Maybe they should stop making games all together. Sports should be outlawed, too. For that matter, we should hunt down and kill all politicians. While we're at it, lets just kill the whole human race. Its not like we are ever going to all get along. If we are all dead, then we can't disagree. No, we shouldn't do that. Then we would have to argue about how to bring about Armageddon.....


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Old 09-30-2005, 01:55 PM   #20
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Making a game that everyone likes is impossible. For one thing, there are people that will hate it no matter how good it is. There are also people who will like it no matter how crappy it is.
Quote:
A game can never please to everyone, there will always be people who will like it and others who will not. If they were to only make games that please to everyone, there would be no games at all. I consider that having no Kotor 3 would be a greater disappointment than having one...
Exactly what I was trying to say. The fact is, some people won't like it and some people will. Do you really think that just because of what is going on here that suddenly we caused the game to be "not perfect"!!! I don't really think that we were able of ruin it-it is going to be ruined for other people already!!! I will bet you everything that some people out there are going to hate KotOR III's guts, even if only just a little bit.
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:55 PM   #21
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If you don't want Kotor 3, don't buy it if it is made. Very simple.

I loved Kotor 2, and so did many of my friends. The ending definately calls for a sequal. Kotor 2 didn't please everyone, but many fans of Star Wars loved it. A game can't please every single person who buys it.
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Old 09-30-2005, 07:05 PM   #22
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No offense, Vlad, but video games aren't about honor. They're supposed to be fun, which is what KOTOR 1 and 2 have been, and which (hopefully) KOTOR 3 will be. Making KOTOR 3 will be a great conclusion to a great trilogy, and there is no reason not to do so just because some people aren't satisfied. If you're angry about all the debates going on, then you shouldn't come to this part of LF.


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Old 09-30-2005, 07:38 PM   #23
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I think no matter what, everyone is pleased with both of the KotOR games. Everyone bought them for a reason, played them for a reason and is looking forward to a third for a reason. . .THEY LIKE THEM! So to say that only one group will be pleased, I think, is inaccurate. Sure, some would rather have certain features, but everyone has that about every game. I wish BF2 had certain things, and if they make another BF, that one may not be perfect either. The point is, there is no perfect video game for everyone. . .but what's the harm in trying?
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Old 10-01-2005, 09:59 AM   #24
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Exactly what I was trying to say. The fact is, some people won't like it and some people will. Do you really think that just because of what is going on here that suddenly we caused the game to be "not perfect"!!! I don't really think that we were able of ruin it-it is going to be ruined for other people already!!! I will bet you everything that some people out there are going to hate KotOR III's guts, even if only just a little bit.
YES. It's OUR fault. Our bratiness and spoilness are really a thing that we are all supposed to be ASHAMED of. I mean, I can only imagine what kind of complaing and arguing that the developers have on THEIR forums. It's enough for them that they have to make it because Lucas Arts forces them to do it, but now WE are forcing hem to do it. When they look somewhere, like here, they think :"HOLY S**T! I better not mention KOTOR 3 here, it's enough that those guys at my forums complain and argue." And the worst part is: that if they are really trying to pick up ideas and sugestions out of all fans, then they will have to draw out aspects out of EVERY SINGLE idea that has been posted by us. And in the end, they end up drinking sleeping pills, we end up with even MORE complaints, unsatisfactory and wants.

I think that the developers have a right to tells us after all the comotion about KOTOR 3, to tell us to PISS OFF. And it would be like this, and I believe that they have a right to say this:

"You want KOTOR 3, huh? You want to find out what happened to Revan and the Exile? Here's an idea: Go and write S**TTY Fan Fiction and make worthless mods! That way you'll make all of us happy."

And if they said something like that, then I would consider them some of the greatest people that have ever lived.

So here's my worry (NOTE: I know that I had an opinion contradicting this, but I changed my mind): If they listen to fans, it would only ruin it for everyone, or only a half of it; anyway you look at it, is BAD. SO:

DEVELOPERS, DON'T MAKE KOTOR 3 IF YOU ARE GOING TO LISTEN TO FANS, YOU WILL RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE IF YOU DO THAT

But if they do deciede to make it, then:

DON'T LISTEN TO FANS, I TRUST INTO YOUR CREATIVITY AND SKILLS

And for the rest of us, is this:

PEOPLE, LET'S ALL JUST SHUT UP, STAY PUT AND HOPE FOR THE BEST

That's all what I am going to say, for now. I hope that I cleared my opinion on this matter.
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Old 10-01-2005, 10:43 AM   #25
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i dont wanna disrespect you, but this is the worst sh*t i ever read in a game-forum.
its up to the devteam if they want to create another part of the story and to come up wit ideas, it doesnt depend on anyone here.
sure, they listen to fans and want to satisfiy them, but its still their decision what to do. so if they wanna surprise us with not mentioned stuff its still all good even if they decide to choose another way which is not wanted by the fans. it all depends on the result. nothing more nothing less. this way they made up the other 2 titles and this way will it be for a third part.
so stop bullsh*ttin here like this would be the most important thang.
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Old 10-01-2005, 10:49 AM   #26
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Vlad tone down a little please. Those caps look pretty bad. And don't worry, the devs would never listen to everyone. They know their job and ther's nothing worng with people telling what they would like to see in the game.
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:17 AM   #27
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FunSolo, you wouldn't mind reading my post above yours as a favor, would you?^_^

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Vlad tone down a little please.
Sorry.

Quote:
Those caps look pretty bad.
Oh, sorry about that. I'll get to editing those caps locks as soon as I can.

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And don't worry, the devs would never listen to everyone.
Well, I think that the best thing is that they don't listen to anyone. They did a great job without listening to us in the first place. That's all.

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They know their job and ther's nothing worng with people telling what they would like to see in the game.
True. But it is bad that they put that in the game, they will make a game the way that they think that it will be for the best.

So I think that it is pointless that any of us say anymore: "Who would like what in KOTOR 3." And argue who is right about thinking what would have and what will be. So let's just stop fighting and be at peace. All right?
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:21 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
So I think that it is pointless that any of us say anymore: "Who would like what in KOTOR 3." And argue who is right about thinking what would have and what will be. So let's just stop fighting and be at peace. All right?
We're not fighting, just having fun giving our ideas. It's not because the opinions are different that we fight...

and it's good people show an interest in the game.
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:28 AM   #29
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plus it shows the passion for a game they made, i think thats the second biggest compliment for a creator. (first would be imitating :P)
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:31 AM   #30
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It's not because the opinions are different that we fight...
Hmmm... Then it is obvious that you aren't aware of the situation that was occuring in the 'KOTOR 3 guessings' thread. So when you read the posts of me, LIYAD, RedHawke and so on, you'll understand what I mean.
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:41 AM   #31
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C'mon, that's just friendly poking. They do this you because you bite There's nothing agressive in their posts. Lighten up a bit Vlad and have some fun instead of making a drama out of that.
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:51 AM   #32
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C'mon, that's just friendly poking. They do this you because you bite There's nothing agressive in their posts. Lighten up a bit Vlad and have some fun instead of making a drama out of that.
You're right, it's just that I get a bit uptight sometimes (family characteristic). I just think that it's better that the developers think what is KOTOR 3 going to look like instead of us.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
You're right, it's just that I get a bit uptight sometimes (family characteristic). I just think that it's better that the developers think what is KOTOR 3 going to look like instead of us.
And I'll bet that that's exactly what they will do, would have done, regardless of what is or is not posted here or anywhere else.

We're just a group of people who like to discuss something that we commonly enjoy. And as long as we all stay respectful, we should have the right to say whatever we want.

Lighten up, Vlad. It's just a game. And we're all just sharing opinions.

Have a great day.
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Old 10-01-2005, 02:12 PM   #34
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After all is said and done about Kotor III, I don't want them to ever stop making new stuff from the original inspiration.(movies, series', games, etc.) The Star Wars universe has been a fixture in the whole lifespan (so far) of an entire generation(older than many of you). Its just plain classic. There have been countless parodies, imitations, and quotings, and thats just fine. Long Live the EU! Theres plenty of room. ...and I have little doubt that being included in the phenomenon in any way(working at ILM, being a Lucas-approved author, or even seeing one tiny thing of yours anywhere in it...) would be nothing less than a dream come true, for any fan. I've never known anyone that would actually expect it. To bid that it stop is tantamount to fan-heresy.

-for the record... I am not a blind loyalist type fan... I actually resent some things about the phenomenon. eg. I will never forgive them for not including more fencing technique in the movies' saber-play(esp. the earlier trilogy). There seems to be an undue dedication to kendo and/or broadsword technique. I know little girls that could've beaten Vader with the fight-choreography he was given... and thats just not right. Aldo Nadi, Cappo Ferro, Silver, Musashi, and all the old masters probably spin in their graves. It even bugs me that they spell it "saber" rather than "sabre".lol- ...but I still love them for what they brought us, and it's hard to imagine the rest of my life without more when its been there all along. Regardless of the resentment I would be absolutely honored to be given the opportunity to choreograph 1 duel, whether it made it to end-production or not....and I would make damn sure it was the best stuff I'd ever done.
I say keep on truckin'. I'll take kotor MCXXVII if I'm still around...and I might bitch to high heaven about it, but I'll never want them to stop.
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Old 10-01-2005, 03:17 PM   #35
Kain
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Yea, I could see Darth Vader with a hand over his head or on his hip as he does lil hops back and forth with his blade out in front of him going *breath*En garde*breath*

Doesn't exactly do the films justice. Besides, no sword fight really looks like that. Even the most finesse fights are still rather sloppy.
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Old 10-01-2005, 03:27 PM   #36
Darth InSidious
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If discussion=argument, and argument=row, what is the point of a forum and visiting one, Vlad?



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Old 10-01-2005, 03:45 PM   #37
CrudeMatter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain
Yea, I could see Darth Vader with a hand over his head or on his hip as he does lil hops back and forth with his blade out in front of him going *breath*En garde*breath*

Doesn't exactly do the films justice. Besides, no sword fight really looks like that. Even the most finesse fights are still rather sloppy.
If you'd care to discuss this, I think it should be a new thread.
no need to hijack.
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Old 10-01-2005, 09:49 PM   #38
lukeiamyourdad
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sabre=British spelling

saber=American spelling

Star Wars was made by an american, K1 was made by Canadians, who don't know which spelling style to use, so they picked one and K2 was made by a bunch of American guys.

So...


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Old 10-01-2005, 10:15 PM   #39
RobQel-Droma
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YES. It's OUR fault. Our bratiness and spoilness are really a thing that we are all supposed to be ASHAMED of. I mean, I can only imagine what kind of complaing and arguing that the developers have on THEIR forums. It's enough for them that they have to make it because Lucas Arts forces them to do it, but now WE are forcing hem to do it. When they look somewhere, like here, they think :"HOLY S**T! I better not mention KOTOR 3 here, it's enough that those guys at my forums complain and argue." And the worst part is: that if they are really trying to pick up ideas and sugestions out of all fans, then they will have to draw out aspects out of EVERY SINGLE idea that has been posted by us. And in the end, they end up drinking sleeping pills, we end up with even MORE complaints, unsatisfactory and wants.
I don't think that it has been any different in any other types of games there have been in the past, and I am not talking about just Star Wars games. And no, they are definitely not going to take ideas from ever single idea, that would be pointless, and it is completely impossible any ways because ideas will contradict.

OUR fault? I have said this before, but come on, just because we got into arguments doesn't mean anything, even if we shut down the whole website and never said anything, and just let them deliver, there are going to be those who will be dissapointed. I don't really understand where "fighting" is going on that you keep mentioned. What do the thread names say!?!!??
KotOR III GUESSINGS
Want you would LIKE in KotOR III
KotOR III story IDEAS
You know what, I do not see one single What BETTER be in KotOR three, and I do not see any What the KotOR III Story BETTER Be!!! I am not holding my breath to see if my ideas are used, the devs might have better ones!!! Most of the reason I posted stuff was just to present what I thought would be kind of cool and see if any body else had some good or cool ideas, not to scream and shout at the devs and say, "IF THIS IS NOT IN HERE...!!!" and then add in whatever you want.

Quote:
Hmmm... Then it is obvious that you aren't aware of the situation that was occuring in the 'KOTOR 3 guessings' thread. So when you read the posts of me, LIYAD, RedHawke and so on, you'll understand what I mean.
I was posting stuff in there during that whole debate or argument, whatever you want to call it, over Revan vs. New PC, although there might be others you are referring to. If you ask me, I was not this huge screaming fight with people shouting at each other saying, "YOU IDIOT!!!!!!, or YOU MORON!!!!!." It wasn't that long of a time that I personally thought that there was kind of a argument going on.

Finally, games are not made to please everyone. Since that is hopeless, it is better that half of the people love it, and half of them hate it, as long as it is a suitable ending for a GREAT series of games. I don't really care if my ideas were used or not, if all of them were the game probably would have been made to just please me. I hope that the devs are not going to listen to us and try to please us, as you said, that is what mods are for. The maximum, and the only, expectation I have of them is not that they put the things in and make the game and the ending the way I want it to be, I only want them to put the things in and make the game and the ending the way in needs to be.
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Old 10-02-2005, 02:09 AM   #40
SITHSLAYER133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killwithhonor
I can see where wher your coming from, but i want to know what happens to the exile and revan, they left us at a cliff hanger, they kinda have to make it
i think killwithhonor is right theres nothin worse than an incomplete storyline
with out k3 being made it would be like watching a 3parter pf stargate and missing the finish which would suck majorly


People in life Should Be given A single Choice where do they want to be Shot!
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