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Old 10-17-2005, 02:24 PM   #1
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Jedi Robe Option for KOTOR III

If they finally decide to make KOTOR III, I hope they do something different with the robe option. I loved how the TSL style Jedi robes came into play. However, I think it's time to move up a notch.

I believe that the robes should come in two parts. The torso option is the inner robe, and for the head gear option should be the hood & cape. That way you can also mix the different colors anyway you want. That way you have the option whether or not you want to wear the hooded robe, and that way you can combine the different colors in ways that will fill the individual person's style.


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Old 10-17-2005, 04:07 PM   #2
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That's very cool, and it'd be a pretty simle way to improve things without costing a whole lot of engine redevelopment. It's taking the existing system, and making it work better, which is IMHO, exactly the sort of thing they should be doing.

I'd still like to see them improve the cloth, but only because I'm very bad.

I've yet to see a cloth sim in a game that impressed me greatly. It could happen with the next gen consoles, but I don't think it will with the first wave of games. It'll take time for R&D to catch up to the hardware, though less for the XBox, than for the PS3(1).

We're still going to be faking it for some time to come. There were 0 cloth papers at SIGGRAPH and Eurographics this year. That really says something about the state of things.

I would definitely not like to see them spend too much time on engine development -- it's going to take away from time they could be spending on the story. If they just port the engine to the 360 with little or no changes, we won't see any of next gen advantages in the game, but we'll probably get a better story. Conversely, maybe we could get a cloth sim good enough deal with cloth intersections with geometry (it's not THAT hard, and I really got tired of Atton's robe sticking through the back of his chair), but it might take away from the story.

I guess we'll see what they do.

(1) Not intending to start a console war here. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, but the PS3 is farther from conventional architectures, and is going to take more R&D (and probably more misses) before it finds its killer app. I suspect that killer app will blow us all away when it does happen, though . In any case, looking forward to the process.


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Old 10-17-2005, 06:46 PM   #3
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That would be really cool. In the movies each set of robes are different and based on what the wearer wants. If you could have some way to wear a hooded robe, and then take that hood off when you wanted to, like some option on the clothes image, then you could do all kinds of things. You could just wear the robes/tunics, or you could wear the full flowing robe.

I hope that you can customize them in everything. Color, underlay, overlay, material, special parts of it that could give you regenerative ability, types of upgrades that give you more strength; stuff that makes the robes your own personal Jedi Armor, yet light and not force-power-restricting.
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:23 PM   #4
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Yeah, like custome Jedi-robes, tailored to fit the PC. That would be really cool.


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Old 10-17-2005, 08:22 PM   #5
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I am not sure I like the idea of many parts robes (or armor or whatever). Right now I am playing Neverwinter Nights. All items have several parts. For instance a simple sword has three parts. I can see where it could make it pretty difficult for us modders. Something like that may have to end up like NWN where you have to mod the module in order to mod the item. There is no simple extration tool. like Fred Tetras KOTOR Tool, for the particular files say .UTI and .GUI and change them around and stuff them into your override folder and *POOF* you have a new item (Fred Tetra Help Me! LOL). I realize that it would make it more interesting for console users, but us PC users/modders are an important consideration also.
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnosmokey02
PC modders are an important consideration also.

*Corrected.

It affects mostly you. I understand that it might mean less mods for PC but that doesn't mean PC users, in general, are instantly penalized. A lot of PC KotOR players don't use mods and never have.


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Old 10-18-2005, 02:14 AM   #7
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nah you need to be able to wear the hood and a mask, like revan. They gotta make it a simple way of doing it tho. If they overdo it, it will end up like the weapon creation system in TSL.
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
*Corrected.

It affects mostly you. I understand that it might mean less mods for PC but that doesn't mean PC users, in general, are instantly penalized. A lot of PC KotOR players don't use mods and never have.
*Correction

While it would affect me, it doesn't mostly affect me. I am just one person. There is a whole modding community out there.
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Old 10-18-2005, 03:00 AM   #9
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Honestly I don't really care about the robes and items, they could stay as-is and I would have no problems...

They need to focus on making a complete storyline, many play options, including say differing LS and DS storylines, fully fleshed out NPC's who are interesting to speak to and have more of them than availalble slots so you cannot recruit all of them in one or two games, and all the other play and replay factors of the game first, before adding such eyecandy as customisable robes and sabers, is really low on the wanted list for me.

While I like the idea, it just would take the back seat priority wise.


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Old 10-18-2005, 05:51 AM   #10
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I already posted this @ Mini games ideas, and fully agree.

We should be able to make a layer of leather over robes, like Anakin in ep 2, of make it hooded etc. It would also be nice if you could change colour etc.

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Old 10-18-2005, 08:00 AM   #11
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amen to that RedHawke, story and depth first. However, its subtleties like robe customization and so on that gives a game like KOTOR its polish
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnosmokey02
I can see where it could make it pretty difficult for us modders.
But to a large extent this kind of thing is the sort of mod people want to make. If there are more options like this were the player can get what they want, then there is less need to mod, which is a good thing IMO.

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Old 10-18-2005, 09:21 AM   #13
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This sounds like a great idea. The robes in K2 were a massive improvement on the K1 robes to be fair though.
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnosmokey02
While it would affect me, it doesn't mostly affect me. I am just one person. There is a whole modding community out there.
The "you" referred to modders.

I'll dare say that modders represent about 5% of every KotOR player, from casual to hardcore.


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Old 10-18-2005, 01:12 PM   #15
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I fully agree with RedHawke. Story first! I would like to see the robes this customizable, but only after the more important things are accomplished first.

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Old 10-21-2005, 06:15 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=RedHawke]Honestly I don't really care about the robes and items, they could stay as-is and I would have no problems...

They need to focus on making a complete storyline, many play options, including say differing LS and DS storylines, fully fleshed out NPC's who are interesting to speak to and have more of them than availalble slots so you cannot recruit all of them in one or two games, and all the other play and replay factors of the game first, before adding such eyecandy as customisable robes and sabers, is really low on the wanted list for me.

QUOTE]

I agree but to some extent I would like to see robes that better reflect what you see in the original movies. TSL came close to it but I agree on a complete story plot that differs from the gameplay of KOTOR and TSL.
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:16 PM   #17
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My only concern with the robe will be realism. And I don't mean better meshes or higher res textures but consistent folds and overlapping pieces of cloth. The tabbard-like drape on the padawan robes in TSL was cool, but where in the hell did they come from. And why did left overlap right above the belt, but vice versa below the belt? The master robes weren't much better, and don't even get me started on the K1 robes. If they want to improve the robes in K3, they could start by using a reference.
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Old 10-22-2005, 06:41 PM   #18
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ok im no modder and i dont pretend to be but achilles yopur idea has inspired me to make a suggestion about the robes ok now bear with me on this, i am sure everyone here has played kotor1 well in that game and i think it was also available in tsl there was a mandorlorian armour that covered you from head to toe helmet and all now cross that idea with a robe and mask and you could be onto a winner but i could also be very embarrissingly wrong

however all this arguing reminds me of something mark hammil said in the documentory 'empire of dreams' aparently in the making of star wars a memo went out from fox (i think) because they were worried about the fact that the wookie had no pants

of all the things to be worried about lol

my point being yes achilles i agree realistic robes would be nice, but if they spend to much time on that than the actual gameplay and plot then i'm sure you know exactly were the devs can stick their robes lol


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Old 10-22-2005, 09:50 PM   #19
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I think it's a pretty good idea, but they have to make it easy to do or people will get sick of it.

And I agree with Achilles, they should just look at some references from the movie robes for starters. I love how they do the movie robes and don't know why they just don't do that for the game.


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Old 10-23-2005, 12:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleggy
my point being yes achilles i agree realistic robes would be nice, but if they spend to much time on that than the actual gameplay and plot then i'm sure you know exactly were the devs can stick their robes lol
*shrug* They have to skin the robes anyway. It's not like it's going to take them that much time to do it right.
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Old 10-25-2005, 04:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
My only concern with the robe will be realism. And I don't mean better meshes or higher res textures but consistent folds and overlapping pieces of cloth. The tabbard-like drape on the padawan robes in TSL was cool, but where in the hell did they come from. And why did left overlap right above the belt, but vice versa below the belt? The master robes weren't much better, and don't even get me started on the K1 robes. If they want to improve the robes in K3, they could start by using a reference.
I agree that the KotOR robes were awful. I did like the TSL robes. Yes they looked different than in the movies, but it was 4,000 years before the Star Wars Saga. Styles of clothes would be changing all the time. Especially over the next 4,000 years.


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Old 10-25-2005, 05:58 AM   #22
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i reckon that you should be able to conceal your face with a hood that would be cool cause itt would make you look mysterous


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Old 10-25-2005, 10:57 AM   #23
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There is a mod for TSL that does that reasonably well already...

http://warpedproductions.echonetwork...hots/hoods.jpg

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Old 10-25-2005, 11:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediShemL
I agree that the KotOR robes were awful. I did like the TSL robes. Yes they looked different than in the movies, but it was 4,000 years before the Star Wars Saga. Styles of clothes would be changing all the time. Especially over the next 4,000 years.
Did you even read my post? Where did mention the movies or the movie robes?
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Did you even read my post? Where did mention the movies or the movie robes?
I sure did. Let me quote some things by you that suggest you are talking about the movies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
My only concern with the robe will be realism.
What do you think that tells me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
And I don't mean better meshes or higher res textures but consistent folds and overlapping pieces of cloth. The tabbard-like drape on the padawan robes in TSL was cool, but where in the hell did they come from. And why did left overlap right above the belt, but vice versa below the belt? The master robes weren't much better
What are you basing this off of if it isn't from the movies?


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Old 10-25-2005, 09:46 PM   #26
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Err...how about the robes from the game
How in the heck you made that leap is beyond me.

Yes, my concern is realism; cloth that is skinned to behave like it would in the physical universe. Realism. Spend some time actually looking at the textures and look for the things I pointed out in my post. I'll provide a visual aid to help you.

EDIT: Thought I posted this link...sry

http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=robes2hw.jpg

Last edited by Achilles; 10-25-2005 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Oh man, that is messed up! How I missed that before is beyond me...


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Old 10-26-2005, 04:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Err...how about the robes from the game
How in the heck you made that leap is beyond me.

Yes, my concern is realism; cloth that is skinned to behave like it would in the physical universe. Realism. Spend some time actually looking at the textures and look for the things I pointed out in my post. I'll provide a visual aid to help you.

EDIT: Thought I posted this link...sry

http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=robes2hw.jpg

Now that is more clear to me to where you are coming from. That way I know what you are comparing it to. I appreciate that. Anyway, be careful in the future how you approach people. Some may not be as nice as I am. Saying stuff like, "Did you even read me post" is very insulting and stirs up angry and bitter feelings. Not just by the person who feels insulted, but others who read it and feel the negativity. All this over a misunderstanding. Is it really worth it? What good can come out of it? That is not needed here or any place. Try to keep it friendly, and that way people who browse feel this is a helpful and warm place to be apart of, not a place to feel discouraged.


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Old 10-26-2005, 10:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Oh man, that is messed up! How I missed that before is beyond me...
Yeah, now go back and look at the Master robes

Whomever skinned the Onderonian clothing should have been put in charge of all the clothing textures in the game...

@JediShemL: You know what happens when you assume right? You make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". I can't be held responsible for your leaps in logic. Glad to hear pictures helped.
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Old 10-26-2005, 01:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I can't be held responsible for your leaps in logic.
True. But you can help see where you are coming from. Like say, "I think you misunderstood me. This is what I meant..."


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Old 10-26-2005, 02:22 PM   #31
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I hope they do make it realistic, I liked the look of the TSL robes, but looking at the pic Achilles provided, there are several problems. I would like it if there are certain ranks of robes that you get as a Jedi at the beginning; However, along the way, you get to build your own robe s that can only be worn by you. Kind of like the Star Forge/Revan's robes, but you actually make them yourself.
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediShemL
True. But you can help see where you are coming from. Like say, "I think you misunderstood me. This is what I meant..."
Yeah and you could have said "Excuse me Achilles, I'm not exactly sure what you are referencing. Could you please clarify?". So, is this there going to a point to this conversation or can we drop it now? This is sure to be deleted by the mods at some point, so feel free to reply via PM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQelDroma
I hope they do make it realistic, I liked the look of the TSL robes, but looking at the pic Achilles provided, there are several problems. I would like it if there are certain ranks of robes that you get as a Jedi at the beginning; However, along the way, you get to build your own robe s that can only be worn by you. Kind of like the Star Forge/Revan's robes, but you actually make them yourself.
Understanding that there are model limitations, I'd like to see more visual representation of the of the various upgrades. Along the lines of your ranking suggestion, maybe have it to where the outer robe is wearable by masters and knights, but padawans are stuck with the basic garment, etc.
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:10 PM   #33
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^^^^
Yeah, the padawans would have just a little 1+ defence robe that was little more than the K1 tunic, not necesarily in look, but in layers. Then, as you progressed, you would be able to get more layers and a bit more complicated robes. Perhaps add head and cold resistance, after all, they are supposed to guard against harsh weather.
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Old 10-27-2005, 07:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
While I like the idea, it just would take the back seat priority wise.
Agrees with Hawke as usual. I'm more interested in a complete story than playing 'Jedi Dress up'.

I'm not saying the ideas should be trashed, their just on the very bottom of the list.

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Old 10-28-2005, 08:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediShemL
If they finally decide to make KOTOR III, I hope they do something different with the robe option. I loved how the TSL style Jedi robes came into play. However, I think it's time to move up a notch.

I believe that the robes should come in two parts. The torso option is the inner robe, and for the head gear option should be the hood & cape. That way you can also mix the different colors anyway you want. That way you have the option whether or not you want to wear the hooded robe, and that way you can combine the different colors in ways that will fill the individual person's style.
yea that would be wicked being a sith with sith robes (black) and witht he black hood up, you'd look so menacing!


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Old 10-28-2005, 10:34 AM   #36
RobQel-Droma
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I agree with you all. I think that the idea should go in the back seat, along with some other features in other threads that would be really good, but keep them back. Spend a LOT of time on the story and gameplay! I don't really care if they take a long time, just make it good; I wouldn't mind if I got to play a game three years or more later that was super good. After that, then take some more time to put all the extra stuff in! If this is going to be the finisher of the KotOR series, then they have to make it good. If not, well, it wouldn't be good to have two not-so-great ones in a row anyways, so either way- spend some time on it!
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Old 10-29-2005, 09:32 PM   #37
Samurai DD
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Better animations for robes would be great. And the color combinations would sure be neat. And Ive always wanted the option to use hoods.
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Old 11-11-2005, 01:45 PM   #38
JediMaster12
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I'll just come right out and say it: THE ROBES FROM TSL WERE BETTER THAN KOTOR AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF FOLDS IN THE ROBES!!!

What I think they should do is boost the stats on basic padawan robes and maybe upgradeable. The TSL robes looked more like Jedi robes and they shoud stick with that in KOTOR 3. The option to put the hood up is a good one, could add to maybe disappearing into crowds or somehting.

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Old 11-11-2005, 02:13 PM   #39
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Well, it was kind of noticable the unrealisticness of the robes and all the problems with parts of the robes coming out of nowhere. But first of all, it is not that big of a deal. I actually like the K1 robes, they could do with some improvement, but they were ok. Of course, the TSL robes are WAY better and more Jedi looking.

As for upgrades, I think that the padawan robes should pretty much be almost the thin tunics from K1, except a little bit more like real Jedi robes. That is all a padawan would probably have, anyways. And have Jedi robes that are from different planets, or academies/enclaves that are a different style. The "rank" robes would be a little bit different depending on where they are from. And have robes that are from certain force-using groups. And have robes for different ranks (Jedi Knight Robe from somewhere, then Jedi Master robe from somewhere), and then for the different classes. That would be nice.
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Old 11-11-2005, 04:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by JediShemL
If they finally decide to make KOTOR III, I hope they do something different with the robe option. I loved how the TSL style Jedi robes came into play. However, I think it's time to move up a notch.

I believe that the robes should come in two parts. The torso option is the inner robe, and for the head gear option should be the hood & cape. That way you can also mix the different colors anyway you want. That way you have the option whether or not you want to wear the hooded robe, and that way you can combine the different colors in ways that will fill the individual person's style.
Couldn't agree more... I've missed hooded Jedi robes since the release of KotOR1. And the color combine idea is great too.


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