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Old 01-15-2006, 06:28 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by The Doctor
^Yes. I will never do anything that helps Bush.
Please leave the politics in the "Star Wars=Anti-Bush?" thread, peacenik.

Anyways, back to the topic, I agree, it's the conflict that eventually brings Anakin to tears. You see the conflict in Episode III very well, killing Dooku, "I want more," etc. And Luke taps into the conflict and eventually defeats the tormenting, evil side. Rememeber, "Father, I feel the conflict with in you, let go of your hate." "It's too late for me, Son." And in the words of Paul Harvey, "And know you know the rest of the story."


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Old 01-17-2006, 06:19 AM   #42
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Conflict scomflict, he owned Padme faster than most people would hit people they really did hate, then starts mewing like a baby that Obi made him do it. If anything he's going through a second puberty.

In Ep 6, I always thought that Vadar had the choice to be loyal to his family and his love, or to be a servant of the Emperor and give up his son.


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Old 01-18-2006, 01:55 AM   #43
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He's crying because he knows he's killed lots of good people and he will NEVER see them again. AND it wasn't for the greater good. Sort of.


Vader >
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:35 PM   #44
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I think it was a little bit of Anakin coming through Darth Vader. I think he felt the tiniest shred of shame and sorrow for what he had done and what he was going to do. After Padme showed up, however, he was too far entrenched in the dark side to realise what he was doing, especially when he saw Obi-Wan and felt betrayed by this.


There is no emotion, there is peace
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge
There is no passion, there is serenity
There is no chaos, there is harmony
There is no death, there is the Force.

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Old 03-10-2006, 08:08 PM   #45
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I think that it was him realizing that what he was doing was wrong. He realizes that he's gone too far but he "has" to stay in it to save Padme. when in reality his vision was what would happen if he made the mistake that obviously he wasn't prepared for. He feels that he must be darkside because palpatine told him it was possible to save people from death...I think that palpatine might have put the vision in Anakin's head...


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Old 03-17-2006, 10:05 PM   #46
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You ever get so swept up in passion that you literally adopt a COMPLETELY different set of values and reasoning, only to then-- after the obsessive drive has been fulfuilled-- realise the tremendous 'OOOPS' you just did? I think that it was at THAT very moment that Vader took a momentary back-seat, and Anakin came to the surface for just a fleeting moment to say his final good-bye. I believe that scene was a sort of "funeral" scene for Vader, paying final homage to his former Self, and allowing himself a moment to honour, with a bit of pity and perhaps regret, the death of Anakin Skywalker.

That was the moment when Vader became FULLY cognizant of his true destiny... perhaps sensing the future for the first time in a new, and completely black, hateful, hurtful, and destructively unhappy way.

Just MY spin on things.
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:42 AM   #47
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Well, I've had rages where I've done terrible things, if that's what you mean, but no way have I felt passion. I don't need sex "that" badly. Annakin is a wuss in that aspect. All that "fear leads to anger" BS and Annie thows his soul away because he needs to "fertilise more seeds."


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Old 03-19-2006, 09:54 AM   #48
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Ummmmm...

I don't mean that Anakin wanted sex.

PAS·SION:

1. A powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger.
2.
1. Ardent love.
2. Strong sexual desire; lust.
3. The object of such love or desire.
3.
1. Boundless enthusiasm: His skills as a player don't quite match his passion for the game.
2. The object of such enthusiasm: Soccer is her passion.
4. An abandoned display of emotion, especially of anger: He's been known to fly into a passion without warning.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:00 AM   #49
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You can tell that I'm completely heartless can't you. A girl would have empaphised with you straight.

Still, justification for a killing spree if your "ho" gets herself knocked up. :P


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Old 03-20-2006, 01:07 PM   #50
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I don't think you're heartless.

I think you're a kid.

One who isn't very experienced with sexual relationships.

That's totally O.K. We're in a Star Wars forum. I really don't think anyone here is going to like you more knowing how much you "don't need sex that badly", or how removed you think that Anakin is from the responsibility of his "ho getting herself knocked up".

Again. It's a Star Wars forum, Kid. The topic of the thread isn't about "fertilizing seeds"-- and bringing such hormonally-charged topics into an innocent thread like this just might make you look like a lonley, horny kid who's trying to look cool.

I don't know you, and it really doesn't mater to me either way... I'm just letting you know how it looks from my perspective. Again, this is a Star Wars forum, and we're talking about Anakin becoming Vader.

By the way, it's "Empathized", not "Empaphised". No empathy was actually even needed... I only gave the definition of a word you used, because it seemed clear that you didn't actually know it. I have no feelings either way regarding your vocabulary skills, so I don't require any empathy, here... "girlish" or otherwise.

:?)
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Old 03-21-2006, 08:29 AM   #51
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Erm, I'm 23 years old, despite my lack of "experiance", you'd be grossly surprised at my antics. As Clinton would say "I ain't ashamed".

As a Brit, I use more 'esses' the 'Zees' and I can't "speel" brilliantly despite me knowing some really weird meaning. If you check my previous posts, I tend to be a 'firestarter' in my posts, it's a learning technique which should be done more in demoracies: If I shout something people disagree with, then they're more inclined to tell me why they agree with something and either way I learn something constructive. Being a devil's advocate is a good way to understand people's ideas without resorting to being a troll and unwilling to accept people's opinions, even if I may strongly disagree with the notion.

Also, regardless of my opinion, Annakin is not a character with a great amount of depth. It seems that he goes from being a really stupid kid given a load of responsibility, to becoming a bad-ass who kills people who annoy him just because. It's not something you can really rationalise. I mean, Annakin commits horrible acts to his own friends, then cries after wiping out his enemies? I'm an Obi fan and there's a man who really does develop, it's quite saddening when he looses faith in his own best friend, but I can't connect with someone who can't shout "I hate you!" without making me laugh.

If they wanted to play the shallow male role, they might as well as used a Black character and played to the Hip-hop theme, because I swear that 50 cent could have pulled off the role except for the intro, which is where I'm convinced his character really started off "better" than Ep 2.

Also, if you've ever lived in a country with an insane teenage pregnancy rate, you see it first hand how often people resort to insane rages of violence just because their G/Fs have got pregnant, which seem more "justifiable" if you tried scriptwriting that into the film, but I think I've already started an argument on Annakin vs domestic violence elsewhere.


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Old 03-21-2006, 11:31 AM   #52
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Wow! That was great! You rock, Bro!

I guess I got a bit reactive, back there... I've grown weary of coming to a forum and finding words of hate, depraivity, and senseless dribble that deviates from the topic at hand. I'm really glad you kept everything in check, and didn't fly off the handle in a display of insult and degredation.

Quote:
As Clinton would say "I ain't ashamed".
Good. I'm not into the Shame Game, myself, and wish that more of us would simply be mindful of our experiences, and of the effects that arise from our choices, so that we may learn whatever "Lesson" we can, and move forward without guilt or shame for ANY of the things we do.

Quote:
I tend to be a 'firestarter' in my posts, it's a learning technique which should be done more in demoracies: If I shout something people disagree with, then they're more inclined to tell me why they agree with something and either way I learn something constructive.
Right on. I tend to be a 'firequencher' in some of my own posts. I sometimes speak strong words when the fire seems consume the thriving potential of a thread. The points you've made are equally as valid as my own and anyone elses. I think that making your point about Anakin's rage likely would have been percieved cleaner if your words didn't allude that the conception of children in a loving relationship is akin to a "ho getting herself knocked up".

Quote:
All that "fear leads to anger" BS and Annie thows his soul away because he needs to "fertilise more seeds."
This, to me, suggests that Anakin went on an unprecedented galactic killing spree because he just needed to get his pipes cleaned.

Essentially, I don't really see how the drive for sex played any part in his fall to the Dark Side... which IS what we were talking about. I percieved your message to be propogating an irresponsible perspective towards pregnant women. Perhaps these aren't your genuine feelings towards "hos", but the only insight I have about anyone, here in forum, are the words they choose to use.

Also, I believe that if we take care to courageously explore the origins of anger, we'll find that, in fact, it IS rooted in fear. Fear of not being loved, fear of abandonment, etc. I've been fortunate to learn that it isn't really BS at all.

Quote:
Also, regardless of my opinion, Annakin is not a character with a great amount of depth. It seems that he goes from being a really stupid kid given a load of responsibility, to becoming a bad-ass who kills people who annoy him just because.
The character had potential for alot of depth, I think, but I agree that Christian Haydenson didn't actually BRING such depth to the character. I'm not so sure he was just killing people who simply annoyed him, but I DO agree that he was quick to throw away years of Jedi dicipline in patience quite easily when Padme went the distance to prove her love for him.

Quote:
I mean, Annakin commits horrible acts to his own friends, then cries after wiping out his enemies?
THAT's what the discussion was about! See, I don't think he was crying about wiping out his enemies, do you? I think the tears MAY have been towards his enemies-- that whole "love thy enemy" concept-- but even if it WAS, then I'm pretty certain there were AT LEAST some tears there for his friends. Again, I personally think he began to see the Whole of Everything, and the realization (or belief) that there was no turning back, and that Anakin, himself, was to no longer be.

It's true that Obi Wan was a charachter that doveloped greatly throughout the trilogy, though I'm not so sure he did so any MORE than Anakin. Again, I think that proper casting and excellent acting are the big factors, here. Ewan McGregor is a very good actor, and I think he was PHENOMINAL as Obi Wan. It was the ACTOR-- with all the charm and behind-the-eyes emoting that really brought that character out. Otherwise, it'd just be a guy with a concept and a bunch of scripted lines.

Anyways, it's been great discussing this with you... agreements and disagreements alike. Sorry if I seemed too presumptuous earlier on... You've handled it all like a Jedi, and set a good example of how to debate a point without giving insult.
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Old 04-01-2006, 07:40 PM   #53
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After Vader slaughters the remaining Confederate leaders they show him overlooking the lava river on Mustafar, but you can tell he's crying by the tears that are running down his face, but why is he crying? I would like for everyone's opinion..
Remember, he is only a young adult. At that point in his darkside turn, he could be feeling the last of his innocents being pulled from him. All that he knows to be pure is now gone, and it is not leaving without scaring his psychy. Deep inside he knows what he did was wrong, but he also is under the false impression that there is no turning back. The darkside currupts absolutely, and leaves scars that will not heal.

Vader is a classic Shakespear tragedy. Your hero knows that if he follows a certain path, his fate will be one of death and chaos. Just like the old English poems and stories, the hero treads down the path nievely (But Knowingly). Once he gets to the end, the fate he was told comes true. Justice is a dish served cold. Everyone, except for Luke Skywalker, had died when they returned to the lightside after walking the dark path. Falling to the darkside is one of pain, regret, and death.



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Old 04-02-2006, 11:49 AM   #54
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I think if we could all stop arguing about stupid things like who's a kid and whose not, or passion, your obth right now get over it...


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Old 04-03-2006, 05:07 AM   #55
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i thought thios whole thread was about vader crying!?!? not small 8 year olds.


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Old 04-03-2006, 12:34 PM   #56
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Ever played Chinese whispers? I see no comments about 8 year olds.


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Old 04-05-2006, 12:05 AM   #57
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Holy crap I never realized one question would last for 4 months. I didn't understand it then, but now I understand it. Thank you, but i'm so surprised it lasted this long.. o_O

Although it's now a little out of hand -_-


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Old 04-21-2006, 07:27 PM   #58
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hes probally crying because no one likes him or maybe its because his eyes have gone wered or just missing Padme or maybe its coz he murdered inicent like 4 year olds who where under attack by a large army that will soon take over the galaxy! You know one of those little things
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:46 PM   #59
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George Lucas finally broke it to him that he couldn't act.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:05 PM   #60
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vader was crying and i saw it on dvd on original cd ................it s conflict beetween his good and dark side he isnt dark by nature and he knows that what he s doing is very wrong!!!!!!!!!! that s conscious


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Old 06-12-2006, 05:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Raevan
vader was crying and i saw it on dvd on original cd ................it s conflict beetween his good and dark side he isnt dark by nature and he knows that what he s doing is very wrong!!!!!!!!!! that s conscious
What he said.


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Old 06-13-2006, 04:34 PM   #62
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Maybe cause he is still feeling "Love" ??

Note that Love is for some reason discouraged by BOTH Jedi and Sith.

So, Ani jumps out from the pot of emoionless Jedis thinking he can finally love, and drops to another pot of love-hating Sith.
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:34 PM   #63
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So, Ani jumps out from the pot of emoionless Jedis thinking he can finally love, and drops to another pot of love-hating Sith.
Ahhhhh... The tangled webs we weave...


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Old 06-13-2006, 10:24 PM   #64
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I have skimmed over this thread and I saw no reference to the main reason Anakin turned...loss. If you remember in Ep 2 Anakins path started when he slaughtered the Sand People after attempting to rescue him mother. Loss is the fundamental factor that Anakin turned as he was accutely aware of what it meant and he was not going to go through that again, or fail the person who he lost. His late entry into the Jedi order precipitated this vulnerability because Jedi are generally cut off from any emotional ties from a much younger age. Yoda says in Ep 3 that loss is not necessarily bad but why would the order not allow relationships or take jedi from their parents so young....because its natural to have emotions and they are not so easy to kill off.

However this is not itself why Vader cries. He understands what he is doing and its agonizing for him to betray everything he ever stood for, but believes it is the only way for him to save Padme. This is exactly what Palpatine wants as he can take advantage of Anakin while he is in this tormented state. I really did question whether he believed Palpatine about the Jedi trying to take over and he was in fact defending the Republic or he just used that as his pretext to emerse himself in the Dark Side. The way it is portayed he agrees with Palpatines assessment (just after he is annointed his new name). I think he realises it is all BS but he has to do it anyway because he cannot lose Padme, since he tries to cover what he has done. Its got nothing to do with sex or having a baby, which he is genuinely happy about. It gives him even more reason to want to save Padme. When Padme dies he has nothing left but the Dark Side and he gives himself to it but not completely; hence the inner conflict.

Those of you who have experienced alot of death will know what Im talking about. That my take on it anyway.
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:17 AM   #65
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I reckon KOTOR 1 solves the whole "love" issue, despite being "Z canon".

I dunno about loss really. I've had a lot of people and animals get fragged on me, it makes you cold and careless. It makes more sense if he turned after his mum died.


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Old 06-14-2006, 11:15 AM   #66
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"Your Focus Determines Your Reality"

WOW, Rust Lord... Very well said! I couldn't agree with you more. Very insightful. I see that you, too, see the deeper layers of the Star Wars saga.

EVERYONE here, I think, loves the movies in thier own unique way, for thier own unique reasons.

Since I was a child, I've been hooked. And then, back around 1989 or so, I had the privelage of watching the trilogy again-- back-to-back-- on what was then the largest movie screen in New England, and it was like I was watching a whole new series of films... suddenly seeing it with new eyes, and and a new mind.

Since then, the layers and layers of meaning and depth just CONTINUED to unfold-- still to this very day. It's absolutely staggering how genius Lucas actually is... how brilliant this whole story is, and how it's been delivered. There are many readers, I KNOW, who disagree, and can knit-pick and rip on Lucas or the films until they're blue in the face... That's O.K. All opinions are valid... Again, we each percieve out of our own unique "reality tunnel", and I cannot expect everyone to see what years and years of heart-felt "study" have brought me... I realize that the spiritual truths that this story has unfolded FOR ME are not shared by most of the people who still enjoy the films in thier own way, for thier own reasons.

Mythic archetypes affect our own psyches in ways that are unique to the individual. Some people percieve the films merely as good sci-fi flicks... others of us can completely relate with any number of characters, as-- being archetypes-- they exist within us all. It just depends on what the individual is actually looking at, or looking for.

"Your focus determines your reality."
................................Qui Gon Jinn, Jedi Master, Episode I


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Old 06-14-2006, 01:52 PM   #67
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In order to fully embrace the Dark Side, one must endure terrible pain...at least...that's what I always thought...



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Old 06-14-2006, 02:36 PM   #68
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In order to fully embrace the Dark Side, one must endure terrible pain...at least...that's what I always thought...
Why would you think that?



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Old 06-14-2006, 05:10 PM   #69
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Why? Darkside gives you candies!!
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Old 06-15-2006, 08:07 AM   #70
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Nah, by that rank, I would join the darkside because I've had 10+ pets die on me over my lifespan.

True evil is doing it because you think it's the right thing. (There's a war on terror reference in there). Reminds me poetry about the loving father who loves is family and a centre of his community and is buying presents for his wife who adores him...

...and he runs the Belsan concentration camp.

Anyway, I'd love yellow eyes and a red lightsabre...killing things is gooooooood!


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Old 06-22-2006, 10:05 PM   #71
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I think that just because it is painful and costly to get what you want...also, betraying what you have known basically your whole life has to hurt...but that's just me...



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Old 07-13-2006, 07:46 PM   #72
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Actually Whats worse is that after all he has done to help save Padme, he ends up hurting her, and Padme is not amused by what he has done.

Oh well, if he would ever tell Obi, or Obi confronting him early on for that matter, then things can be worked out. Its not like Obi did not have his fair share of romance, and he would be at least supportive of the two lovers, even covering for them.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:45 AM   #73
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he's crying because he broke his "Kick Jedi butt" video game CD

or maybe he just poked himself in the eys.


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Old 07-29-2006, 03:53 PM   #74
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Nah, I say he's sweating. A bunch of unarmed Nemoidians would have been quite a workout for him, eh?

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Old 07-29-2006, 11:33 PM   #75
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Damn! that's what I was going to say... It could be Really hot in there and his eyes are sweating!




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Old 07-31-2006, 03:56 PM   #76
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i think that padme should have accepted that he was gonna do anything at all to save here but she got here head stuck up her ass over it and she didnt listen!!
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:58 PM   #77
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and if he wouldnt have jumped so low and if i jumped higher on the lava bank he could have got obi wan and then sidious came gave him his new saber he killed sidious clones try to kill him and he turns back to lite side and padme forgives him they have child and tada perfect life right there
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:33 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by darthyorktown
and if he wouldnt have jumped so low and if i jumped higher on the lava bank he could have got obi wan and then sidious came gave him his new saber he killed sidious clones try to kill him and he turns back to lite side and padme forgives him they have child and tada perfect life right there
That makes no sense.



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Old 08-01-2006, 11:11 AM   #79
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hmm sorry that what happened in video game
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Old 08-01-2006, 11:54 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineCult
That makes no sense.
i think he's referring to an alternate-ending-for-the-vidoe-game fan film that was released quite some time ago. it showed that Obi Wan missed his swing at Ani's legs and the latter stabbed Obi Wan in the back (literally) with his blade. He then met up with Sidious, who gave him his new red blade, which anakin took and used it to kill sidious in one sweep. sidious' escorts were about to shoot anakin, but the latter said "no, the galaxy belongs to me" and they relaxed. actually, i would have preferred that ending to the real one


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