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Old 01-16-2006, 02:58 AM   #81
mxsuprastang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSentinal2
. . .But had the Council been more open minded and felxable with their code. . .
Can you be flexible and still have a code? That doesn't make much sense, it's like bending the rules for one person, it's not a good idea. Anakin knew what he was getting into when training to become a Jedi, he knew the rules, obligations and yet cried about the fact that he had to abide by them. Was he powerful, yes. But for some reason he believed he was an exception to the rules when he wasn't, like the "not being granted master on the council" scene. He believed that it was his right to be a master, even though he hadn't earned it from the right people. Exceptions can't be made in rules or a 'code' if you will, nothing good can come from it. Either obey the rules and accept the good consequences or disobey them and await your punishment.

Anyways, enough about that. The Jedi have their flaws, but nobody is perfect. I've always looked at Jedi as the "uncorrupted police" They go around the galaxy making sure that justice is intact. Justice isn't revenge and isn't one sided. The Jedi protect the galaxy form what it turned into during "The Dark Times" The Jedi ROCK!
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Old 01-18-2006, 05:39 PM   #82
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Yes, Anakin's abilities made him arrogant.

Yes a flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselevs even the older, more experienced Yoda

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Old 01-18-2006, 06:10 PM   #83
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The grew too complacent. They thought that the Sith were extinct, instead of searching the galaxy for their arch enemies.


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Old 01-19-2006, 11:31 AM   #84
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What do you do when you can't sense a threat? That was why Palpatine decided to strike when he did. He knew the Jedi couldn't sense it.

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Old 01-21-2006, 10:20 AM   #85
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But they should have known not to trust their senses. Look at what haqppened during the Jedi Civil War. The Mandalorian Wars. The Great Sith War!


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Old 01-21-2006, 11:43 PM   #86
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The Jedi prefer to look at the whole picture. There was more at stake. Don't you remember what Bastilla said about something lurking out there in the Outer Rim and beyond? Sometimes the best way to fight an enemy is to make the enemy show himself by drawing him out.

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Old 01-22-2006, 09:29 AM   #87
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^ Yeah, but the remaining Jedi after the Jedi Civil War did just that and gathered on the Miraluka homeworld. Look what happened then. It would have been a better idea to do what they did after that disaster. Separate and go to places touched by war, Kavar's idea was a good one.


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Old 01-22-2006, 03:02 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by JediMaster12
The Jedi prefer to look at the whole picture. There was more at stake. Don't you remember what Bastilla said about something lurking out there in the Outer Rim and beyond? Sometimes the best way to fight an enemy is to make the enemy show himself by drawing him out.
It seemed to me that the Republic would truly have fallen if Revan, Malak and the other younger jedi had not interfered (One dialogue option in KOTOR2 is (roughly) "The Republic would have fallen if Revan had not interfered. That's a fact!" (while arguing with Atris the first time)) and I do not think that the intention to lure an enemy out of the shadows justifies the sacrifice of millions or eventually billions of lives...

I am really not sure what would have been the correct choice, and I believe that this is the way the two KOTOR games put it - there is a lot of arguing about that point (even in KOTOR 1, e.g. the 2. Bastila - Carth conversation) without a definite answer.

Remember Jolee's words: The jedi have good intentions (at least most often), but they are not perfect
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Old 01-22-2006, 06:18 PM   #89
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Jolee was right, that's why a lot of people want him to be in the new Kotor as a force ghost. Even the best intentions can have tragic consequences. I think Kreia says that in TSL on Nar Shadaa. But also doing nothing but discussing what will happen if Jedi get involved in a matter is wrong too. If the council had done a better job at training the Jedi that left for the Mandalorian War, training them to turn away from conflict once a battle has been won. The exile had to learn that the hard way. When he witnessed all those deaths at Malacor V, he closed himself off the the Force. It took Kreia's training to bring him back to the Force. If more Jedi had gone through what he did, more would turned way from war and wouldn't have had followed Revan to war. By the time some of the Jedi council members realized this, the Jedi Civil War was already in full swing.


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Old 01-23-2006, 11:35 AM   #90
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You may have a point there. I sense you may be a gray jedi or rather you see more gray than dark or light and both extremes annoy you Anyway that is valid. Even Zez-Kai Ell said something along the lines that perhaps the teachings had become arrogant and even the Order itself. My question to you is this: what about Kreia telling Atton that it is conflict that strengthens us while isolation weakens? Or does Kreia not count because of her hatred for the Force itself?

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Old 01-23-2006, 04:41 PM   #91
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You are right JediMaster12, I am a Grey Jedi. You must be truly intune with the Force.

To answer your question, yes, Kreia was right in a way. Conflict can strenghten a Jedi, but only if that Jedi is strong enough deal with that conflict after the fact. A true Jedi can turn away from conflict once it has been dealt with. Kreia also said " What is a Jedi without the Force? Just a man, just a woman." Jedi are only human, and as humans, they are not perfect. That's why some Jedi can "walk within the light", and some (like me) become Grey Jedi. We are viewed as "misguided" by the Jedi council and the Sith see us as Jedi no matter what.
Then there are the Jedi that "fall to the darkside". They let conflict consume them and eventually feed upon it. IMO, those Jedi should have never been trained in the ways of the Force. Their masters should have seen the personality traits in those Jedi, and should have refused to train them. Like I said before, the Jedi council hasn't always done their job.

Isolation isn't the answer either. Jedi are supposed to help the weak and protect the innocent. If the Jedi didn't, we would be like the Baran Do or the Matukai. We are neither, WE are Jedi. We help those who are in need of us, whoever they may be.

And remember, Kreia didn't always hate the Force. She was a Jedi once and a Sith. Being cast out of both is probably the source of her hatred.


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Old 01-24-2006, 09:49 AM   #92
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How do we know that the Republic would have fallen if the young, restless jedi wouldn't have interfered at that particular time?

The Mandalorians had only taken three systems way out in the outer rim,
systems that weren't even apart of the Republic.
(Does anyone know which ones they were?)

The Mandalorians are masters at war, their culture is defined by it. It was a dangerously masterful stroke to lure the jedi out. A brilliant move, if you play Chess, Go, or Dijarik.

Unfortunatly for them, Revan was the one to answer the call.
I wonder, would things have been different if Kavar had been the one?

I also wonder what would have happened if the strongest and most talented of the jedi would have stayed behind and made a concerted effort with the Republic forces and the resources and approval of the jedi counsel.

Steve-O Kreesh, Why put the blame of jedi falling to the darkside on the masters? Masters aren't omnipotent. They can't see everything.

Look at Qui-gon Ginn.
Do you think he would have still had Annakin trained if he could see what was going to become of him?
If the masters can sense every little thing about a person, then why couldn't they sense Sidious standing right next to them? ...bit of a stretch.

Oh, and about Kreia.
I think Kreia's hatred goes a bit deeper. Kreia is tormented by her belief that she once was and still is (like all jedi) a slave of the force.
...and she is fatally jealous of the Exile's ability to not only live without it,
but become stronger for it.


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Old 01-24-2006, 01:48 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O Kreesh
You are right JediMaster12, I am a Grey Jedi. You must be truly intune with the Force.

To answer your question, yes, Kreia was right in a way. Conflict can strenghten a Jedi, but only if that Jedi is strong enough deal with that conflict after the fact. A true Jedi can turn away from conflict once it has been dealt with. Kreia also said " What is a Jedi without the Force? Just a man, just a woman." Jedi are only human, and as humans, they are not perfect. That's why some Jedi can "walk within the light", and some (like me) become Grey Jedi. We are viewed as "misguided" by the Jedi council and the Sith see us as Jedi no matter what.
Then there are the Jedi that "fall to the darkside". They let conflict consume them and eventually feed upon it. IMO, those Jedi should have never been trained in the ways of the Force. Their masters should have seen the personality traits in those Jedi, and should have refused to train them. Like I said before, the Jedi council hasn't always done their job.

Isolation isn't the answer either. Jedi are supposed to help the weak and protect the innocent. If the Jedi didn't, we would be like the Baran Do or the Matukai. We are neither, WE are Jedi. We help those who are in need of us, whoever they may be.

And remember, Kreia didn't always hate the Force. She was a Jedi once and a Sith. Being cast out of both is probably the source of her hatred.
Yes, I am in tuned with the Force as my brother tells me. You are right about the Jedi. I have watched the prequels Ep 1-3 and I find myself noticing the arrogance of the Council concerning the Sith. I have no problems in being neutral when it comes to diplomatic affairs and seeing both sides but as a Jedi I need training. If you would become my master, I would accept your teachings. I know of a sacred river and clearing where ritual meditation is held by the hunters on my homeworld Avalon.

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Old 01-24-2006, 02:55 PM   #94
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To Cygnus Q'ol: Are Jedi Masters perfect? No, far from it. But as a group, they can identify potential Padawans by using their other senses, their instincts. True Masters know that you can't always rely on the Force. As people they should have good judgement on who they should train as apprentices. As supervisor at a business, wouldn't you want the best people to do the job required? Yes.

Your question on Qui-gon is a good one. IMO, he was to focused on the here and now. He saw Anakin as the Chosen One, and at that point and time he saw fit to have Anakin trained. Did he see the risks? No, but the council did. Yoda himself sensed much fear in young Skywalker. Mace Windu was adament in refusing to train Anakin. They sensed something not quite right with Anakin, they were right to refuse to train him. It took Obi-Wan to promise Qui-Gon to train young Skywalker, when Qui-Gon was dying. Obi-Wan then threatened the council to train Anakin with out the council's approval, which forced their hand. They were not going to let a promising young Jedi like Obi-Wan leave the order. Only then did they agree to allow Anakin to be trained.

Now about Darth Sidious. There are techniques to allow you to close yourself off from the Force. These techniques effectively hide yourself within the Force. By focusing inward, you can mask your Force signiture. I believe Sidious used a something similar to hide himself from the Jedi. It must be a Sith technique I'm not familar with.

I agree with you on Kreia. But she also loved the exile for turning away from the Force and then becoming stronger for it. I agree she was jealous of the exile, but she also loved the exile for the same reasons.

To JediMaster12: I could take you on as an apprentice, but before we travel to Avalon, you must first meet me here on Onderon. There is much to learn here, as I have done myself in my solitude. Plus the nearby moon of Dxun has much offer as well in lessons of the Force.


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Old 01-24-2006, 07:03 PM   #95
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You would be wrong in my opinion, Steve-o-Kreesh. The Jedi needed to be destroyed, so did the Sith, and Kreai did what needed to be done, not willingly, no, but the Force works in mysterious ways. The Force created her, it seems, to hate the Force, and to attempt to kill off the Jedi and the Sith. I am currently learning about the White Current,a different part of the Force, and it seems that if you master it, you could see clearly into the future. The Light and Dark sides allow you to see dimly, not clearly. Jacen Solo knew this, and I see him with higher respect than Luke Skywalker or Revan. Steve-o-Keesh, I will learn about the Force with you, if you will allow me to, because my view is imperfect. It always will be. But with further study, I may be able to grasp its full nature. My sig says May the Force guide you! because the Force is always with you,t hough it might not always guide you.


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Old 01-25-2006, 11:24 AM   #96
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@Steve-O-Kreesh: I will travel there on my ship The LoreSeeker

@Revan Skywalker: Just remember the Force is in all of us. To be able to see the flaws is not a sign of clouded view. Remeber TSL how they were quick to punish the Exile. To me that holovid was not really a trial more like a character bashing. I guess I am us to a trial by jury kind of thing. What I saw there was nothing more than an attempt to get things done and over with.

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Old 01-25-2006, 11:55 AM   #97
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I have a problem with the way the counsel went about the Exile's so called trial. Jedi Master12 is right. That really didn't seem like a trial.
They all ganged up on the Exile, spit their un-researched accusations, took the lightsaber, and sent him packing without so much as a explanation or goodbye.

(In the movies)The counsel on Coruscant seemed to at least try to understand the threats they faced before they went into action.
...sending Kenobi on fact finding missions like Geonosis and such.
Like finding Dooku and hunting down Grievious.

Why didn't they at least try to understand what happened with the Exile?
I may be wrong, but I don't think any of those masters were at Malachor.
Nor did they investigate afterwards.
It just didn't add up to what my thoughts on the intelligence of the counsel really was.

In KotOR they acted too slow and Revan could wait no longer. Either they really were acting too slow, or their teachings weren't good enough to have instilled enough discipline to check Revan's actions.

In TSL, they acted too fast without thinking.
...almost as if they were in fear.

What would Yoda have done with the Exile?
What about Windu? Would they have acted as brash and ignorant?


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Old 01-25-2006, 01:52 PM   #98
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Also remember that Zez-Kai Ell said something along the lines insteading of trying to understand why the Exile did as he did they punished him instead. That sounded like regret and remember he said he was Jedi no longer. Could that be a hint that he took a leaf out of Jolee's book? What about Kavar? He knew about war himself having fought in what was it Exar Kun? Anyway Kavar seemed to understand better the choices the Exile made but he may have been driven by fear.

I think you were right in the fact that the Jedi may have acted in fear with the Exile. It seemed to show again at the final meeting on Dantooine. Fear does tend to make a person act rashly without weighing the consequences.

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Old 01-25-2006, 04:29 PM   #99
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To Revan Skywalker: I'm sorry you disagree, but this is a forum, so I'm not surprised.
If you look at it from a certain point of view, Kreia did destroy the Jedi and the Sith. Kreia taught Revan, Sion, and Nihilis. All three killed many Jedi. She taught the exile, who effectively killed the Sith in known galaxy. He killed Sion and Nihilis and their followers. Kreia also corrupted Aeris, which the exile could choose to kill. Kreia herself killed the last three council members still alive. All that was left was the exile, the "Lost Jedi", and Kreia. It was up to the exile to start over, whether to rebuild the Jedi or the Sith was your choice.

I too hold much respect for Jacen Solo, he truly is what a Jedi is meant to be. He has an understanding of the Force.



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Old 01-25-2006, 06:42 PM   #100
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I never thought of it that way Steve-O-Kreesh. Jacen Solo I'm guessing he was different from the start from his twin sister Jaina. From what I understand, he can see that there are no definite lines. Like you he sees more grey. As for Kreia, she was a manipulative witch trying to destroy the Force because she hates it yet she can't bear the thought of it being lost. Sounds like she has psychological issues and needs a therapist but how can someone be like that? Did it have to do with the betrayals of Sion and Nilhilis?

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Old 01-25-2006, 07:20 PM   #101
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I still have much to learn, Steve-o-Kreesh. I ask you, may I become your Padawan? You seem to have some of the same views as me. And you are right, Jacen Solo knew that the Force did not have a light or Dark Side, it was just a metaphor. The Force users have a light and dark side. This is why I do not use the Force as my one only option. I use the White Current, Dathomiri Force spells, and the Force. You could teach me about the Force, and I could teach you about the Current and the Force Spells. (I don't know how to do smiley's so here it is. Smiley face.)


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Old 01-25-2006, 07:49 PM   #102
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Well Jedimaster12, having her head bashed into a stone pillar didn't help with her psychological issues either. Or the shots to the abdomen or the choke hold Sion put on her too.
Was she manipulative? Yes. But calm yourself my apprentice, she was no witch. If it wasn't for Kreia 4000 years ago(as the time line goes), the Jedi would have died out long ago. She trained the exile and brought him back to the Force. She gave him the knowledge to rebuild the Jedi (or the Sith) and start a new Jedi order with what he (or she) learned from her. If it wasn't for Kreia, the Jedi order would have died on Peragus II. For that and that alone, do I respect her.

As for the council at the exile's trial, I have no respect for them at all. They sent the exile packing because Revan didn't come back to stand trial. The exile was the only one that did come back to face trial, unlike Revan. The exile was a scapegoat for Revan. They had no right to make the exile leave the order for doing what he believed in, protecting the the innocent. Then they betrayed him again, when they tried to strip him of the Force. They were afraid of him because of what he did and what he became. They thought him a wound in the force but they were wrong. He was the only hope for the Jedi and the Force. Was Kreia right in killing those Masters? No, but in your own words, she was a manipulative witch.

I await your arrival to Onderon, my apprentice.

To Revan Skywalker: I would welcome you if you decided to join me and JediMaster12 for training. You may study and train with us on Onderon. I sense there is much for you to learn. No one's view of the Force is perfect. We are only human after all. Perhaps the time on Onderon will help you find what your looking for in the Force. But I must warn you that I will teach you as a Jedi teaches an apprentice. Unlike the Dathomiri, I am not an isolationalist. We will help those in need and protect others from harm. That is the way of a Jedi.


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Old 01-25-2006, 08:09 PM   #103
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I will protect them too. All I am saying is that I focus on more areas than just the Light and Dark Sides of the Force users. I don't believe the Force has a Light and Dark Side. I am jumping into hyperspace right now, on my ship, the Truth. I will be on Onderon in two minutes. I have already built a lightsaber, so don't worry about that, Master. It has a blue blade, and a compact handle. I also carry a blaster. When we are done with training, you must come with me to Dathormir, where the Force whiches have many spells to teach you, such as a sphere of light. Then we must go to the Fallenasi, where they will give you the ability to see into the future brightly. a.k.a. my sig. Thank you for exeptinbg me, Master.


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Old 01-26-2006, 11:02 AM   #104
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Yes Master Steve-O-Kreesh, I see that as well. She did bring the Exile back to the Force. I'm not sure about Master Vrook. He seemed a bit like Master Windu when he was adamant against training Anakin. There were times when you kind of liked him and other times when you lose respect for him, like he is so mired in his opinion. Maybe he is like that because he lost a padawan at Malachor like so many others. If that were the case, he would be the male version of Kreia except he has no hatred of the Force. Atris I thought was too rash, like she had a hatred for the Exile for not obeying the Council.
I believe the Jedi as guardians of peace and justice; they protect the innocent when able. I see that they are not perfect because I took a leaf out of Jolee's book about the concept of love how in the end it would save you. I think that is what made the Exile and Revan able to leave those they loved behind to protect them from a greater evil to come.
As for calling Kreia a manipulative witch, I was merely quoting Atton, but then again h was a strange character, even after the Exile trained him as a Jedi.
My astro droid tells me that we are coming up on Onderon in three standard hours.

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Old 01-26-2006, 01:56 PM   #105
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I've been following this thread for some time, and now that I have my thoughts coalesced into something (hopefully) coherent, I think I can share them.

As has been previously stated, I believe Master Vandar's description of the Jedi as the "defenders of the galaxy and sworn protectors of the Republic" is a good starting point. However, that only describes the role they play, not "who they are." Republic soldiers also play that role, but they are not Jedi. The Jedi are people who are able to feel The Force and use it. They formed an order so that they could teach their ways and establish guidelines for the behavior of their members. Anyone who calls himself a Jedi, must accept the teachings of the Order and agree to live by them to the best of his ability. Does that mean you never vary from the Code? Certainly not. It means that you try to follow the Code, and when you do violate it, you feel remorse at doing so. If you take issue with something in the Code, you try to change it from within. That is why I dislike the term "Dark Jedi." If you are dark, you have rejected the teachings of the Order and are therefore no longer a Jedi.

Yes, that is a legalistic view, but I also believe you can be a Jedi in spirit if you feel The Force and use it and follow the Jedi teachings while not officially swearing loyalty to the Order. Much good can be accomplished by these individuals, as well. However, this is a dangerous path because having another to teach you and hold you accountable can help prevent you from straying to false teachings (the Dark Side).

While I believe the Jedi Order is a good insitution full of good people, I also believe the Order made some big mistakes. They became arrogant and underestimated the strength of those who used the Dark Side. Why did they not see the rise of Darth Sidious? They were not looking in the right places. They thought the enemy would fight them on their terms, not his. This is the classic blunder of almost every institution that gets overthrown. They also became too concerned with the preservation of their Order, rather than the protection of the galaxy.

However, I think the greatest mistake of the Jedi Order was their stubborn insistence upon avoiding relationships with others. Just because relationships bring entanglements, does not mean they must be avoided. Relationships can bring weakness, but they are also a source of great strength. Just ask any soldier, and he will tell you that he is often inspired to do things he never thought he could do because he wanted to protect those he loved and make them proud. That is where Anakin and Luke Skywalker finally brought balance. Luke used his relationships as a source of strength. In ROTJ, Luke says to the Emperor, "Your arrogance is your weakness." The Emperor responds, "Your faith in your friends is yours." That is where he was wrong, and why he ultimately failed. At the end, the love between a father and son prevailed over lust for power. It was that love that kept the Jedi Order from becoming extinct and did lead to the extinction of the Sith Lords.


Show me a man who is twenty and not a liberal, and I will show you a man with no heart.
Show me a man who is forty and not a conservative, and I will show you a man with no brain.


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Old 01-26-2006, 02:07 PM   #106
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I see that you follow some of Jolee Bindo's advice. You make a good point though about the Jedi and a soldier for the Republic with the defenders of the Galaxy. I often find myself saying such arrogance on the part of the Council. As we have heard from various others, the Jedi are not perfect; they are human, or whatever they are. I think the biggest debate is over the issue of relationships and love. I stick by what Jolee says and what you see to say too. I've seen it countless times where someone gets that last ounce of strength to triumph because of love.
I must sign off because I'm approaching Onderon.

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Old 01-26-2006, 10:13 PM   #107
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I am looking forward to meet you, Jedi Master12 and Master Steve-o-Kreesh.


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Old 01-26-2006, 10:46 PM   #108
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To jimbo fett 66: You are a very wise individual. You have a good grasp on what it means to be a Jedi. It is true that the Order was founded by people who wanted to feel and use the Force. But when we Jedi are not defending the galaxy, we must spend our time studying and learning more about what Force has to offer. There are many techniques to learn, almost too many to learn in one lifetime. And that is just the Jedi teachings. There are the teachings of the Baran Do, the Matukai, the Zeison Sha, the Jal Shey, and the Dathomiri to name a few. It is my belief that a person cannot resrict themselves to just the Jedi teachings. Like Jacen Solo, I believe Jedi must study with other orders in order to have a wider view of the Force. A diverse understanding will help every Jedi in the long run.
jimbo fett 66 I think if you ever decided to, you would make a very good addition to the Jedi order. I sense you have been through a lot in your life and that you try to follow many of the Jedi beliefs already. You will always be welcome to Jedi order if you choose to join us.

I must go now, my new apprentices are arriving to my location. I must go to Iziz spaceport to welcome them.


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Old 01-27-2006, 10:11 AM   #109
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I am pleased to meet you, Master, in person. What is it you wish me to do?


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Old 01-27-2006, 11:03 AM   #110
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Just remember the Jedi Code. Even Master Zhar said that they were to be used as a guide towards every decision a Jedi makes. We have basic guides, it just depends on our judgment, our choice. Choices decie where your path leads you. Only the journey is written, not the destination.

I await at Iziz and I'm not sure if the Port Master will give me a starport visa.

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:36 AM   #111
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I once harboured the calm stoicism of the order. Once, long ago.
There was a time when I followed the whim of my masters without hesitsation.
...without thought. ...without conscience.

For an outsider, the connection I had with my masters could have easily been mistaken for love, for I would have given my life for theirs. As time went on, however, my eyes were open to the complacency and destructive self absorbtion I saw in the order.

With nothing more than a conversation and the relenquishing of my lightsaber, I left the order of my own accord and with no bad feelings. I am no longer a jedi, but I am an accomplished sabarist and force adept. I no longer hold all of the same ideals as the order, but I am not a sith. My connection to the force is as strong as it ever was. Does that make me a dark jedi?

I don't feel dark. I'm not evil. On the contrary, occasionally, I'll hire out and hunt sith. Unlike other masters of the force, a darkside presence hardly escapes my notice. It is a gift I have which helps me in my quests. Perhaps it's what keeps me from crossing over and into the darker realm. Some of the dreams I have are quite...

...anyway, I still have much to learn.

But, even as ignorant as I am, I still use what talents, skills, and force powers I've aquired to help those in thie galaxy that are less fortunate. What good is spending your life studying countless teachings if they are not used in preserving the qalaxy?

Jimbo fett 66 hit on a very good point. You don't have to be of the jedi order to lend a hand in defending those less fortunate in this galaxy. Soldiers, pilots, engineers, droids, and yes even civilians do thier part too.

I happen to be on Onderon for a conference. Perhaps we will run into each other. Perhaps not. I know you jedi usually travel alone, or in pairs. But if you ever need assistance tracking or hunting sith, I am at your service.
...FOR THE REPUBLIC !


.

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:54 AM   #112
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I see you may be a fan of Trask. I said it as well that I saw the point on you don't have to be a Jedi to help others. In a book I read it mentioned that those younglings who weren't chosen as padawans were sent to help others like at the Agri-Corps project on Bandomeer. I believe Kreia said that every action sends repercussions across the Force, touching all that it contacts with. Maybe the Jedi see this repercussion more clearly, I don't know.

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Old 01-27-2006, 12:33 PM   #113
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I haven't read the whole thread so I might mention something has been said….

I agree that the Jedi code and the sith code have flaws, but that’s the point of it, I mean that there are no perfect things in life and so are these teachings…

The jedi: they say that they are the guardians of the galaxy and protectors of the republic, well that’s foolish because the republic got them at last, so the things they were defending are proved to be wrong, I know that the sith were ruling by that time, but it is really a foolishness to protect a system based on politics which based on return on lies and cheatings, and the last two are the way of the sith, so we see that this cycle will lead us to a dangerous info : the Jedi are protecting the sith…

Another thing, in the conversation between Obiwan and Anakin, the last one said "if you are not with me then you are my enemy" and Obi responded "only a sith deals with absolutes" which is an absolute statement itself…and in another part of their battle Anakin said "from my point of view the jedi are evil" and Obi responded "then you are lost" and this is another absolute statement…not just that the idea of evil and good, is an absolute idea, so the whole absolute thing is wrong.

The sith: they are living only to have more power, greed is their way and death is their fate, for none can last in power forever, and that’s a flaw, they hate and hate and hate…and that will lead them to nothing, they are strong and they might be stronger than the jedi, but they will always lose because they don’t love eachothers, if they unite they would have destroyed the jedi, that’s why the jedi order lasted for years, because they don’t depend on one master, while the sith depend on one and only one, the dark lord of the sith, which means that they will fall right after the fall of this lord.

The jedi are arrogant, yes that’s true and the sith are stupid because they think that they are clever while they fight eachothers and that's not cleverness, so I will form my own order based on my own ideas, I am with the shadow side.
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Old 01-27-2006, 06:28 PM   #114
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Ah hard to see the darkside is. Maybe you would be better off training on Onderon. The grey Jedi as mentioned by my master are seen as misguided but the sith see them as Jedi. The grey Jedi see neither light nor dark. Think of Jacen Solo. He could see that there is no lightside or darkside of the Force, the Force is the Force but there are lightside and darksides of a person. It is the person, not the Force, that the Republic has been broken and rebuilt with. TSL was trying to emphasize that it was choice because every decision we make sends repercussions across the galaxy. That is a lesson to think on.

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Old 01-28-2006, 04:22 AM   #115
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thats the point i wanted to clear...the force is one but we defer, but i dont agree with you that a shadow (gray) cant see light nor dark...my openion that he know themboth and see them both and thats why he stays neutral for he knows that if he choosed to enter one of these sides he will be consumed by it forces which will make him forget about himself and the fact that every person has two sides within him...
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:25 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O Kreesh
To jimbo fett 66: You are a very wise individual. You have a good grasp on what it means to be a Jedi.
Thank you. I cannot tell you how much that means to me.
Quote:
jimbo fett 66 I think if you ever decided to, you would make a very good addition to the Jedi order. I sense you have been through a lot in your life and that you try to follow many of the Jedi beliefs already. You will always be welcome to Jedi order if you choose to join us.
Thank you again. I have wanted to become a Jedi Knight ever since my junior high school days, when I first saw Star Wars in the theaters nearly thirty years ago.


Show me a man who is twenty and not a liberal, and I will show you a man with no heart.
Show me a man who is forty and not a conservative, and I will show you a man with no brain.


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Old 01-28-2006, 04:54 PM   #117
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Sorry I haven't posted lately, I've been busy training my apprentices.

To Korfreedonn The Ecclesiastes: If you haven't done so, please read this thread in it's entirety. If you do, you will understand my own beliefs and those I try to teach my Padawans. I am a Grey Jedi, not in the highest standing with the Jedi council. I serve the Order & the Force, but not the council. They see me as misguided with my views and see me as a sort of troublemaker. You may not agree with me and that is fine (this is a forum after all!). But I urge you to read the entire thread before you post again, this has been a very interesting topic to discuss.

To Revan Skywalker: Your first lesson is to join JediMaster12 and seek the beastriders. They have taught me some very useful things about Onderon. The lessons they teach you are essential in learning later lessons with me. Listen and do as they, and treat them with the same respect that you do me.
May the force be with you and guide you, my apprentice.


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Old 01-30-2006, 12:49 PM   #118
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Thanks steve, you have a great ideas but its not similar to mine (well most of it)...you work for the order and the force...i work not for an order, i am alone and i want to keep still in this way, now i want to master the force in my solitude and after then...who knows i might join you...
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Old 01-30-2006, 02:52 PM   #119
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Korfredonn The Ecclesiastes, there is much to learn of the Force and the Jedi. When a Jedi interacts with other people, they learn much too. You learn how the galaxy is formed through all individuals. The beastriders are ineresting people. They spend much of their lives trying to tame the beasts of Onderon, considering they once lived in Iziz. I remember what Kreia told Atton that he could survive in place where Jedi couldn't simply because they don't hear the Force as he does. Interesting no?

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Old 01-30-2006, 06:33 PM   #120
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How true you are my apprentice, but if Korfredonn seeks solitude in order for a better understanding of the force, then he may find the answers to the questions he has. Remember that I myself sought solitude here on Onderon before I took you on as an apprentice. I was able to find many answers to the questions I had, and I see no wrong in someone who follows a path that I once traveled myself.

To Korfredonn: May the force be with you and guide you. I hope you find the answers you seek in the Force. If you decide to join me and my apprentices on Onderon, I think I'm going to have to build an enclave for those who wish to study with me.


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