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Old 12-09-2005, 01:54 AM   #1
Darth Windu
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My KotOR3 Gameplay Ideas

Well, having played both KotOR and KotOR2 many times, I thought I may as well post some ideas I have for gameplay improvements if there is a KotOR3. Anyway, here goes.


Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.


Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Peacekeeper/Mercenary would get the same extra two-weapon fighting and weapons proficiency feat options as the Jedi Weapon Master. These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Peacekeeper/Mercenary?

- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.


Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.


Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.

- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.


Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma


Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk or whatever base you are using at the time, and then have no access to any other weapon you have picked up previously once you leave your base, much like the system used in Jedi Academy. However, if you picked up items while travelling, they would all be accessible to your party members.

- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.

- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.


NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.


Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.

- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.

- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.


Swoop racing
- Enable player to purchase or choose a swoop bike at the start of the game. Bikes could come in combinations of average acceleration/average top speed, poor acceleration/good top speed, good acceleration/poor top speed etc.

- Allow Swoop bike upgrades to be purchased.

- Enable swoop bike ‘tuning’ to fit them better to each track.


Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots. Effectively, they would be at one extreme, with blaster Rifles in the middle, and Repeating blasters at the other end. This would also lend different attack feats to different weapons. Power Blast would be very useful for Sniper rifles while Rapid Shot would suit Repeating blasters more by accentuating their strengths.

- Add Assault Rifles. Especially rifles similar to modern weapons such as the M-16/M-203 combination. This would allow NPC’s to launch grenades and darts from their weapons much like Mira’s rocket launcher in KotOR2 instead of having to throw them.

- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.


Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.

- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.


Thoughts?


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Last edited by Darth333; 12-22-2005 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:17 AM   #2
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definately a number of great ideas there, but there are a couple that i have issues with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
well, i think that having a charater use the default attack is more than adequate as the other feats such as Flurry and Critical Strike also have a couple of penalties that can be quite negative against certain opponents. in this case, i think that just having a smarter AI that recognizes the enemy its facing and then use the appropriate attack would be a much better way of doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
well, i'm not quite so sure on this one. i can understand where you're coming from, but i think the names are fine the way they are. in this case, i think its more of a matter of taste than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.
i highly disagree on this one. the current system, although slightly flawed, works quite well. if anything, the Force Point penalties should be more on a 'by-point' system where your dark/light alignment number would be the penalty number multiplied by the level of the power. ie, a LS character with 27 LS points would recieve a 54 point penalty for using Force Lightning (Level 2 DS power). and a full lightside user would (50 lightside points) would be penalized 100 Force Points for using Force Lightning, and 150 Force Points for Force Storm. this way, you can use it, but it will cost you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.
well, i'm not too sure on this one. sure, it would make those powers more exclusive, but if they use the TSL system, only the PC would be able to use those high tier powers. in that case, i definately don't agree as it severely limits the capabilities of your party members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Impose LS/DS alignment modifiers on different types of Lightsabre much like the current system in use with Force powers, with positive or negative modifiers for attack strength and hit rating. Double-bladed sabres would give bonuses to DS characters, with negative modifiers for LS players. Two single-bladed lightsabres would have the same modifiers in reverse, giving bonuses for LS and negative modifiers for DS. Single-bladed lightsabres would have no modifiers.
although this goes well with the movies, it doesn't go too well with the Kotor series. most of the Kotor-era is a lot of uncharted territory. thus, it can be perfectly plausible to have LS Jedi Masters that have extensive knowledge about different fighting styles and weapons. and, not to mention, that would add a bit of complexity to the game that a number of more casual players wouldn't go over well with.


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Old 12-09-2005, 07:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
well, i think that having a charater use the default attack is more than adequate as the other feats such as Flurry and Critical Strike also have a couple of penalties that can be quite negative against certain opponents. in this case, i think that just having a smarter AI that recognizes the enemy its facing and then use the appropriate attack would be a much better way of doing it.
True enough. I suppose either way would work, It's just a bit irritating having to constantly micro-manage your party members in battle, and rather frustrating when they use normal attack instead of attack feats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
well, i'm not quite so sure on this one. i can understand where you're coming from, but i think the names are fine the way they are. in this case, i think its more of a matter of taste than anything.
The main thing here is, as I said, Jedi Master and Sith Lord are ranks and titles. After all, Darth Maul was a Sith Lord, yet in TSL he would probably be a Marauder. All I want are slight name changes to reflect this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
i highly disagree on this one. the current system, although slightly flawed, works quite well. if anything, the Force Point penalties should be more on a 'by-point' system where your dark/light alignment number would be the penalty number multiplied by the level of the power. ie, a LS character with 27 LS points would recieve a 54 point penalty for using Force Lightning (Level 2 DS power). and a full lightside user would (50 lightside points) would be penalized 100 Force Points for using Force Lightning, and 150 Force Points for Force Storm. this way, you can use it, but it will cost you.
I get the whole LS/DS penalty system, and to an extent it works. I just have a problem with LS Jedi using Force Lightning, which isn't all that costly if you have a high Charisma. I don't really have a problem with any other powers, but I would like one 'icon' power for each side set aside to create a bit more of a difference between LS and DS which seems to be lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
well, i'm not too sure on this one. sure, it would make those powers more exclusive, but if they use the TSL system, only the PC would be able to use those high tier powers. in that case, i definately don't agree as it severely limits the capabilities of your party members.
True, but I'm not talking about TSL . I'd envisage some party members starting off as Jedi as well, and also becoming a prestige class, much like my idea for non-Jedi Prestige classes. This would also force the player to really think, do I want a Jedi Sentinel with slightly weaker force powers than normal, or do I want a Commando?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
although this goes well with the movies, it doesn't go too well with the Kotor series. most of the Kotor-era is a lot of uncharted territory. thus, it can be perfectly plausible to have LS Jedi Masters that have extensive knowledge about different fighting styles and weapons. and, not to mention, that would add a bit of complexity to the game that a number of more casual players wouldn't go over well with.
This is another one of my 'more of a difference between LS and DS' things. As I said, it's not like I'd be restricting certain lightsabres to LS or DS, just using modifiers. This would be the same sorta thing as the current force power modifiers, so for example a fully DS player would get more use out of a double-bladed sabre than a LS player would, yet they could both still use it.


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Old 12-09-2005, 11:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
I don't think so. It would be better if the AI racked up the attacks themselves, because it is not always good for a party member to use the same special attack all the time on everyone when you don't control them. The AI that is controlling them does a good job, it racks up force powers and a range of attacks by itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced. These would be Soldier --> Bounty Hunter, Scout --> Commando, and Scoundrel --> Smuggler. These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Bounty Hunter ~snip~
Good idea, I have thought about this too. Except that Scout should go into something like Ranger if it is LS, and Soldier should go into Commando for LS and Bounty Hunter for DS. (I should think that they should make non-Jedi prestiege classes that are based on alignment too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
I have thought about that too, and it annoyed me a little bit, but I don't really care. It is fine for me if they stick with it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.
No. Not a good idea. Especially for neutral players. What you are saying is that grey Jedi can't use heal and can't use drain health. Do you realize how hard that would make it? And no, people love using stuff like Storm, even if they are LS. No way on this one, people wouldn't like it at all. The penalties are all that is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabres
- Remove short lightsabres. They are for all intents and purposes useless.

- Impose LS/DS alignment modifiers on different types of Lightsabre much like the current system in use with Force powers, with positive or negative modifiers for attack strength and hit rating. Double-bladed sabres would give bonuses to DS characters, with negative modifiers for LS players.
Another no-no. Short lightsabers are used by many people, and they do have some purpose, regardless of what you think. They shouldn't just "get rid of it." As for the LS/DS saber thing, No. Absolutely not. If so, that means that Zez-Kai Ell must be DS for him to fight that well with a saberstaff. No, this would not make people happy either with this, they wouldn't be able to choose what they wanted. Wielding a saberstaff is about skill, not alignment. That should be what the penalties are based on.

The NPC reacting to clothes would be ok, I have thought about that too. They should think differently to a point depending on who you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.

- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels.
Completely agree with this, I want this too. No more getting several "name" items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Swoop racing
- Enable player to purchase or choose a swoop bike at the start of the game. Bikes could come in combinations of average acceleration/average top speed, poor acceleration/good top speed, good acceleration/poor top speed etc.

- Allow Swoop bike upgrades to be purchased.

- Enable swoop bike ‘tuning’ to fit them better to each track.
Absolutely, I wanted this in K1 but it wasn't there. Have the different upgrades do things like increasing acceleration, increasing bike speed, improving handling, etc.

As for the last two on the workbench and the weapons I agree with that as well, I think that you should be able to construct those items. I also have wondered why there is no sniper rifle, at all. Maybe they could have it be good at critical attacks, and things like that, with an enormous attack bonus.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I don't think so. It would be better if the AI racked up the attacks themselves, because it is not always good for a party member to use the same special attack all the time on everyone when you don't control them. The AI that is controlling them does a good job, it racks up force powers and a range of attacks by itself.
The problem though is that at the moment, the AI doesn't do a good enough job of picking attacks all by itself. I've had times where, while fighting Darth Nihilus, Mandalore who has Master Power Blast will instead use normal attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Good idea, I have thought about this too. Except that Scout should go into something like Ranger if it is LS, and Soldier should go into Commando for LS and Bounty Hunter for DS. (I should think that they should make non-Jedi prestiege classes that are based on alignment too).
Good point, didn't even think about that. Thing is though, special forces are more scouts than soldiers. What other names could be used though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
No. Not a good idea. Especially for neutral players. What you are saying is that grey Jedi can't use heal and can't use drain health. Do you realize how hard that would make it? And no, people love using stuff like Storm, even if they are LS. No way on this one, people wouldn't like it at all. The penalties are all that is needed.
Not at all. Neutral players could still use every power except for Force Heal and Force Lightning. Aside from that, they could use all other powers with the same modifiers as they are at the moment. Sure, they would have a disadvantage by not being able to use those two poers, but the thing is that the force is either Light or Dark, you shouldn't be neutral and you'll have small penalties if you don't choose a side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Another no-no. Short lightsabers are used by many people, and they do have some purpose, regardless of what you think. They shouldn't just "get rid of it." As for the LS/DS saber thing, No. Absolutely not. If so, that means that Zez-Kai Ell must be DS for him to fight that well with a saberstaff. No, this would not make people happy either with this, they wouldn't be able to choose what they wanted. Wielding a saberstaff is about skill, not alignment. That should be what the penalties are based on.
I still say short lightsabres are useless, unless you're Yoda. Especially in TSL, where attack bonuses go to insane proportions.

As for the DS/LS sabres, why not? They would not stop people choosing their weapons, a LS Master could still use a double-bladed sabre, while a DS Master could still use twin single-bladed sabres. However, there would be modifiers to make the double-blade a DS weapon, much like there are modifiers to make Force Drain Life a DS power. No difference.


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Old 12-10-2005, 01:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Not at all. Neutral players could still use every power except for Force Heal and Force Lightning. Aside from that, they could use all other powers with the same modifiers as they are at the moment. Sure, they would have a disadvantage by not being able to use those two powers, but the thing is that the force is either Light or Dark, you shouldn't be neutral and you'll have small penalties if you don't choose a side.
But that still means that neutral players are seriously disadvantaged at force powers, which wouldn't be fair to those particular players. (You would pretty much be putting Jolee Bindo to shame, too). And it wouldn't make sense, either; it would be going against what a grey Jedi is. They are not Jedi, they are not Sith- usually the reason they are neutral is because of the fact that they see problems with both sides teachings. That means, they take parts from both that they see are worth keeping. In that case, why make it like they are some weak outcast kind of people? They draw from both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
I still say short lightsabres are useless, unless you're Yoda. Especially in TSL, where attack bonuses go to insane proportions.
To tell you the truth, I don't use them myself. But some people do, you know, regardless even if you say they are "useless." And their "uselessness" doesn't necessitate their removal from the game, you know. Some people actually use them, for one- and two, they should just be in their, they offer yet another weapon to wield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
As for the DS/LS sabres, why not? They would not stop people choosing their weapons, a LS Master could still use a double-bladed sabre, while a DS Master could still use twin single-bladed sabres. However, there would be modifiers to make the double-blade a DS weapon, much like there are modifiers to make Force Drain Life a DS power. No difference.
Not good at all, as I said. While this idea might be good with the Sith Saber on Korriban in K1, and Freedon Nadd's short saber in TSL, not with the regular sabers. As I said before, it isn't a matter of alignment; it is a matter of skill. And while this would not restrict people from choosing the sabers, it would discourage them from it. You need the choice to wield your favorite weapon, it would not be good to alienate people because you get stiff penalties to use that cool-looking saberstaff that they love to fight with. Besides, saberstaffs aren't really DS- while it says that they are "commonly associated" with the dark side, it doesn't mean that it itself is a tool of the dark side. It just says "commonly." Doesn't mean they actually are DS weapons.
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Old 12-10-2005, 08:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
.... As I said before, it isn't a matter of alignment; it is a matter of skill. And while this would not restrict people from choosing the sabers, it would discourage them from it. You need the choice to wield your favorite weapon, it would not be good to alienate people because you get stiff penalties to use that cool-looking saberstaff that they love to fight with. Besides, saberstaffs aren't really DS- while it says that they are "commonly associated" with the dark side, it doesn't mean that it itself is a tool of the dark side. It just says "commonly." Doesn't mean they actually are DS weapons.
I agree. I also cannot really see why 2 sabers should be LS while a double bladed saber is DS. Actually, (after trying it out a little ) IMO the double-bladed is the most passive weapon (little range), followed by the single saber as a medium and 2 sabers as a very aggressive variant (I think it is far harder to defend with 2 sabers, but you have so to speak twice the attack). (That is btw. also the way this is dealt with in the JK3 mod "Movie battles")
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
I thought the AI picking the attacks was just fine. When I pause to take a look I would find an interesting array of attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced. These would be Soldier --> Bounty Hunter, Scout --> Commando, and Scoundrel --> Smuggler. These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Bounty Hunter would get the same extra two-weapon fighting and weapons proficiency feat options as the Jedi Weapon Master. These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Bounty Hunter?
Good suggestion though I would have thought that a scout would more likely become a bounty hunter. But as was mentioned in a different post a consideration as to alignment LS/DS for each non jedi prestige class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
Not sure what to make of it but it does have some merit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabres
- Remove short lightsabres. They are for all intents and purposes useless.
They aren't totally useless. When playing TSL, I give available lightsabers to partymembers in the order they became Jedi. I've actually gotten some good attack bonuses with the short sabers, especially in the offhand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.


Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.

- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.

- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.
What can I say to this except yes. I hate getting 4 of the same thing that comes from one place like the Onderon repeating rifle which I would get in a place like Korriban. The Shop thing, Taris was like that, the most basic stuff.

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Old 12-10-2005, 07:59 PM   #9
Jae Onasi
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I think the non-Jedi prestige classes could be really cool.
I'd love to be able to upgrade a swoop bike and get better times, though currently I just solve the problem by using Darth333's EZ swoop mod.
While I wouldn't want to eliminate LS using DS powers and vice versa, I do think the penalties should be increased. You could make certain uber-LS or uber-DS powers more expensive for neutrals to use, too.


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Old 12-10-2005, 11:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
But that still means that neutral players are seriously disadvantaged at force powers, which wouldn't be fair to those particular players. (You would pretty much be putting Jolee Bindo to shame, too). And it wouldn't make sense, either; it would be going against what a grey Jedi is. They are not Jedi, they are not Sith- usually the reason they are neutral is because of the fact that they see problems with both sides teachings. That means, they take parts from both that they see are worth keeping. In that case, why make it like they are some weak outcast kind of people? They draw from both sides.
Sure, neutral players would be disadvantaged, and so they should. As I said, the Force is LS or DS - you need to choose. As for Jolee, although he claimed to be neutral, from his actions you can tell that he is in fact LS, whereas Kreia who claims to be neutral is actually DS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Not good at all, as I said. While this idea might be good with the Sith Saber on Korriban in K1, and Freedon Nadd's short saber in TSL, not with the regular sabers. As I said before, it isn't a matter of alignment; it is a matter of skill. And while this would not restrict people from choosing the sabers, it would discourage them from it. You need the choice to wield your favorite weapon, it would not be good to alienate people because you get stiff penalties to use that cool-looking saberstaff that they love to fight with. Besides, saberstaffs aren't really DS- while it says that they are "commonly associated" with the dark side, it doesn't mean that it itself is a tool of the dark side. It just says "commonly." Doesn't mean they actually are DS weapons.
Okay then, lets look at the films
- Dath Maul - Double-blade
- Anakin - twin single-blades
- Serra Something (RotS game) - twin single-blades
- Arena Jedi (AotC) - three or four Jedi with twin single-blades

Fact is that Jedi are never seen with a double-blade, while the Sith are never seen with twin single-blades. Besides, do you have a problem with the penalties for force powers? It would be Exactly the same thing with what im proposing for weapons.


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Old 12-11-2005, 01:03 PM   #11
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IDEAS 4 KOTOR 3 - U begin as a Jedi/Sith, already trained in the arts. Ready to embark on the journey of becoming a Master – but u need guidance and further training but u can already handle ur self – ur a rogue Jedi, oozing potential but require much needed guidance and to find purpose again. The galaxy is over run by evil, ur an outcast of the galaxy long forgotten, but still feared by those who remember the forgotten stories. Once again u can choose light / dark. Character customisation should be key (I can not stress this enough just go mad on the character customization other wise u get board of looking at urself). U should be able to customize, ur face, body, stance, dress as much as possible even ur species!!, as well as weapons and even voice. Skills feats and force light/dark should effect, ur movement ur stance, ur attack and defensive abilities as well as force devastation, we wanna see real facial mutation as a result of being evil, and movement like darth maul if ur heavily skilled in combat. We wanna see better clothing, we wanna see cloaks with hoods that hide ur face, and there should be a button to toggle hood up and down, as we as to toggle sabre on or off. Combine this with the story line of kotor 1 and the world detail moment capabilities of darth maul in battlefront 2. Kotor3 needs a drastically improved combat engine also. We also need some cool bady and goody chrators - with defining characteristics, and movements and improved interactions with ur environment. Maybe other skilled jedi/sith can teach you there moves so u can add them to ur own. I love the fact that u can play around with ur lightsaber even when not in battle - more of this please, let the character show off his skills in bars and clubs, have intimidation and respect as feats as well as persuasion this can affect conversations and may even say u from even having to fight because ur that feared - Also we wanna see, limbs cut of by sabers and decapitations and death moves with a saber - through all of this into 1 almightily kotor three and ur blow people minds. Cheers for listening Kevin Mitchell.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:27 AM   #12
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Kevin - that probably belongs in a thread all by itself. This one is just for gameplay ideas, not storyline etc.


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Old 12-12-2005, 02:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Fact is that Jedi are never seen with a double-blade, while the Sith are never seen with twin single-blades.
Ummm.... Wrong. Absolutely wrong with the "never seen" stuff. How about we look at some other characters, shall I? For the Jedi:
Zez-Kai Ell - Saberstaff
Bastila Shan - Saberstaff

Now for the Sith:
Asajj Ventress: Dual Sabers.
Several Dark Jedi and Sith Masters in KotOR and TSL: Dual Sabers.

So you can't really base it on usage, can you? Several from each sides have used the opposites of what you say, so that really isn't reliable. And just in case you start about these things: 1) Bastila Shan started using the Saberstaff when she was LS, and especially if you turned her back in K1 she kept using it, and 2) Asajj could use her sabers to form a saberstaff, but normally/mostly, she used them in the dual configuration. So you are wrong about "never."

Besides, a lightsaber is a tool, not a force-filled Jedi/Sith artifact, unless it was something like Nadd's short lightsaber. It wouldn't make sense, because many of the sabers built are personalized by the person who built them, and it wasn't based on alignment, just whatever the character wanted. You can't lump them in a broad category and say a certain type is "dark", and another type is "light."

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Sure, neutral players would be disadvantaged, and so they should. As I said, the Force is LS or DS - you need to choose. As for Jolee, although he claimed to be neutral, from his actions you can tell that he is in fact LS, whereas Kreia who claims to be neutral is actually DS.
Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds like you have something against neutral players, or don't like the idea of grey Jedi. Because if so, that is a pretty poor thing to base this on, if it is just because you don't like it; some people do, and you would not be making them happy just because you didn't like the idea.

Secondly, if what you are saying is true, that Jolee and Kreia all are really LS and DS, that even if you level yourself out you are still in fact on one side or the other, then: Why even use your idea, if there really is no "true" grey Jedi who are neither LS or DS? What would be the point, if no one really is in fact a neutral Jedi?
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:35 AM   #14
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NPC's should definately react to what you are wearing, if you are dressed as a jedi then you should be respected as a jedi, if you are dressed as a mandalorian you should be feared/acknowlegded as one.

Whlie being a jedi is cool, being a bounty hunter, and learning their special feats is better.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:33 AM   #15
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Whlie being a jedi is cool, being a bounty hunter, and learning their special feats is better.
But the game isn't Bounty Hunters of the Old Republic now is it?


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Old 12-12-2005, 12:36 PM   #16
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But the game isn't Bounty Hunters of the Old Republic now is it?
Quoted for emphasis!

Besides, I disagree with it being better to be a bounty hunter. Maybe if you are Sith, or not a force-user yet, but no otherwise...
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Qel-Droma
So you can't really base it on usage, can you? Several from each sides have used the opposites of what you say, so that really isn't reliable. And just in case you start about these things: 1) Bastila Shan started using the Saberstaff when she was LS, and especially if you turned her back in K1 she kept using it, and 2) Asajj could use her sabers to form a saberstaff, but normally/mostly, she used them in the dual configuration. So you are wrong about "never."
Really I think you should use whatever rocks your boat.

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Old 12-13-2005, 07:15 AM   #18
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Rob - I was actually talking about the films, not EU.

Fett, Hawke - Remember, the player would have to be Jedi, only party members could be a Bounty Hunter.

Jedi - sure, it's just like force powers - you can use whatever you want, but there are LS/DS modifiers.


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Old 12-13-2005, 03:12 PM   #19
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NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.
Some of the ideas are good, but this one I just wanted to comment on.

On the face of it, I like the idea. But I think it would be incredibly difficult to implement, considering the vast amount of different clothes you can equip over the course of a game.

It worked on Taris because all they had to code was (I'm simplifying, but you get the point) "Sith uniform=yes, any other uniform=no". In other words all the game had to do was see if you were wearing a Sith uniform. In your suggestion, it would have to determine your outfit, your lightsaber, etc. and how they all correlate to the given planet's alignment.


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Old 12-13-2005, 08:45 PM   #20
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Your whole 'force is ls/ds' thing is wrong, as has been made clear in the new jedi order era, the force IS NOT Ls or DS, the actions you take can be evil or good, but the unifying force is without light or dark side, it's simply that through emotion the force is easier to tap into. Maybe you don't take the books as cannon, but that's your problem.

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Old 12-13-2005, 09:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3yks
Your whole 'force is ls/ds' thing is wrong, as has been made clear in the new jedi order era, the force IS NOT Ls or DS, the actions you take can be evil or good, but the unifying force is without light or dark side, it's simply that through emotion the force is easier to tap into. Maybe you don't take the books as cannon, but that's your problem.
Actually it appears they're going away from that in the newest novels and that once again there is a distinct LS vs. DS action, regardless of intent.

If you don't believe that, check out the Dark Nest books and Luke's view that they may have erred in their thinking about the NJO way of thinking.


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Old 12-13-2005, 09:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Rob - I was actually talking about the films, not EU.
Um, Darth Windu, Serra whatshername isn't in the movies, she is in the games- so why are saying you were only talking about from the movies?

Secondly, we aren't talking about the movies, we are talking about an EU game. So, since we are playing an EU game, that is why I took a look at some EU characters. That would make sense, wouldn't it? Especially when those characters I brought up are from that particular game?
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Secondly, we aren't talking about the movies, we are talking about an EU game. So, since we are playing an EU game, that is why I took a look at some EU characters. That would make sense, wouldn't it? Especially when those characters I brought up are from that particular game?
*quoted for emphasis

It would be weird to have double-bladed LS Jedi in both first games just to see them being disadvantaged in the third one.

I'm a double-bladed hilt user and a LS. I would in no way want a penalty when I'm using my double-bladed saber.


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:24 AM   #24
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Rob - even ignoring whatshername, the fact is that the Sith are seen with Single-blades and double-blades, while Jedi are seen with single-blades and two single-blades. As I have also said, this would in no way restrict a LS player from using a double-blade, much like being LS doesnt restrict players from using Drain Life etc. Did I mention the modifiers, like force power modifiers would be modified by your Charisma?

Solo - quite true, but really i'd be more looking at it as a 'Good, Bad, Neytral' thing. So if you're wearing Jedi stuff, you're good, if you're wearing Sith stuff, your bad, and if you're not wearing either, you're neutral. To be good/bad/neutral, i image each type of clothing would have its own 'ranking' in terms of LS/DS which would determine how you're percieved. The main reason i came up with this is especially on Korriban in KotOR, there you are in a Sith academy wearing Jedi robes and using Blue and Green Lightsabres, and no-one thinks 'gee, maybe they're Jedi?'

3kys - Lucas says its LS/DS. Enough said.


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Rob - even ignoring whatshername, the fact is that the Sith are seen with Single-blades and double-blades, while Jedi are seen with single-blades and two single-blades. As I have also said, this would in no way restrict a LS player from using a double-blade, much like being LS doesnt restrict players from using Drain Life etc. Did I mention the modifiers, like force power modifiers would be modified by your Charisma?
Modifiers =/= no penalties. You're proposing penalties that simply wouldn't go in well.
Again, we see LS Jedi using double-bladed sabers without trouble in the first two games, why would we need penalties in a third one?
Penalties are made to be deterrents, to make you opt for something else, something with bonuses or without disadvantages. This makes perfect sense in the case of Force powers.
Sabers are another subject however as saber skill isn't fueled by the Dark Side or the Light Side.

I think it is rather dumb to try and apply movie cannon to an RPG that is set 4000 years before the Prequels.


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:46 AM   #26
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Those are great ideas, but I dont agree with some of the names you sugested for the prestige class, "Bounty Hunter" gives me a negative feeling, almost an outlaw.
"Jedi Force Master" is a senseless name.
I'm agaist penalities for double-bladed sabers for LS, I think that Bastila is(was) a Jedi, at least at the begining, and she used a double saber.
Colour Crystals shoud have bonuses to the differents paths they represent, a blue crystal shoud give some bonus for saber combat, for example.

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Old 12-14-2005, 12:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Modifiers =/= no penalties. You're proposing penalties that simply wouldn't go in well.
Again, we see LS Jedi using double-bladed sabers without trouble in the first two games, why would we need penalties in a third one?
Why did we need to be able to upgrade normal Blaster Rifles and Vibro-blades in the second one? Why did we need Influence in the second one? If we had a KotOR series that didn't change anything except the story and characters, how long do you think it would last?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Penalties are made to be deterrents, to make you opt for something else, something with bonuses or without disadvantages. This makes perfect sense in the case of Force powers.
Sabers are another subject however as saber skill isn't fueled by the Dark Side or the Light Side.
Says you. Where is your evidence? As I have already pointed out, in the films double-blades weapons are used by the Sith while twin single-blades are used by Jedi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I think it is rather dumb to try and apply movie cannon to an RPG that is set 4000 years before the Prequels.
lol, and I think it's dumb not to apply movie cannon to the series. What's your point?

Nazgul - If 'Jedi Force Master' is a senseless name, then isn't 'Jedi Weapon Master' also? I actually had an idea regarding colour crystals, but I was thinking more along the lines of 'Blue = +1 Dexterity, Yellow = +1 Intelligence, Green = +1 Wisdom, Red = +1 Strength, others = +1 Charisma'.


On a different topic, I've done some thinking on Rob's suggestion that there ey LS/DS non-Jedi Prestige classes. This is what I've come up with.
- Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
- Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
- Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

Thoughts?


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Old 12-14-2005, 01:19 AM   #28
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You're right 'Jedi Weapon Master' sucks, but I really dont care too much about names, it was just a commentary, so dont give it too much importance.
About the crystals and the LS/DS non-Jedi prstige classes, I agree
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Hawke - Remember, the player would have to be Jedi, only party members could be a Bounty Hunter.
Windu, I wasn't talking to you. See I quoted LegendaryFett's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
The main reason i came up with this is especially on Korriban in KotOR, there you are in a Sith academy wearing Jedi robes and using Blue and Green Lightsabres, and no-one thinks 'gee, maybe they're Jedi?'
This is easily explained, as you are a Jedi, Yuthura even states something recognising you to that effect, remember that in KotOR I many Jedi had went to the Sith side, so having a Jedi training at the Sith Academy on Korriban wasn't all that unusual. Quite clever on Biowares part using a story point to save themselves some work, IMHO.

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Says you. Where is your evidence? As I have already pointed out, in the films double-blades weapons are used by the Sith while twin single-blades are used by Jedi.
Well, as far as the Saber Staff being a DS weapon, I might not be LIAYD, but my evidence is clear... The D20 Rules.

There are no penalties or restrictions to using any type of Lightsaber in the D20 rules. So the makers of KotOR III will also have to use these rules.


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Old 12-14-2005, 01:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Why did we need to be able to upgrade normal Blaster Rifles and Vibro-blades in the second one? Why did we need Influence in the second one? If we had a KotOR series that didn't change anything except the story and characters, how long do you think it would last?
Totally different stories. Since when does upgrading weapons is equal with disadvantaging LS double-bladed saber users?

Besides, "it's a change for gameplay" is a poor explanation as to why we see many Jedi use double-blades in the first games and then poof, they shouldn't use it anymore.

Quote:
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Says you. Where is your evidence? As I have already pointed out, in the films double-blades weapons are used by the Sith while twin single-blades are used by Jedi.
Ok, so where is the evidence that the Dark Side fuels double-bladed saber skill? We see only one Dark Sider use it. Note one.


Quote:
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lol, and I think it's dumb not to apply movie cannon to the series. What's your point?
It's 4000 years before. Things change in 4000 years. You simply cannot apply cannon by the letter. Oh and by the way, if you really want to apply cannon by the letter, there should be two Sith in the game. No more, no less.


By the way, considering how unpopular that idea is, it is obvious that it isn't the way to go.


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Old 12-14-2005, 02:14 AM   #31
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I have read the first of the new serie's, but jsut because luke 'thinks' they might have erred doesn't necissarily mean they HAVE erred.

And as for 'lucas says ... [insert anything here]' lucas hasn't said a thing since making RotJ that was worth one ioda of crap, next you're gonna claim that the ep1-3 are good movies.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:21 AM   #32
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next you're gonna claim that the ep1-3 are good movies.
You don't want to say that to Windu


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Old 12-14-2005, 02:24 AM   #33
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A pure, unaltered, simple double-bladed lightsaber has no DS tendencies. It is not a sentient being, and it is not an artifact of the darkside. So why apply penalties to it like it is?

Wielding one is a matter of skill, not of alignment. It has nothing to do with your alignment, unless you are drawing from a certain side of the force, and that has nothing to do with the weapon.

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Says you. Where is your evidence? As I have already pointed out, in the films double-blades weapons are used by the Sith while twin single-blades are used by Jedi.
Since when does that have any relevance with what we are talking about? As LIAYD and I have already pointed out, it has nothing to do with an EU game, especially one that is 4000 years before the movies. So what, in the movies you see about 4 total Sith Lords- with only one of them wielding a saberstaff.

Come on, in TSL you have Sith Assassins wielding metal sticks and you wielding that mining laser torch thingy (the one you get from the corpse in the Peragus Morgue). And Sith Assassins are never seen wielding anything but metal sticks, and you never see anyone else in the game wielding that torch weapon either. And does that mean that sticks are DS weapons, and mining torches are LS? Absolutely not.

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next you're gonna claim that the ep1-3 are good movies.
I don't know about you, but I actually liked them.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:37 AM   #34
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Totally different stories. Since when does upgrading weapons is equal with disadvantaging LS double-bladed saber users?
Never said it had anything to do with it. The point I was making was that just because something wasn't in the previous game doesn't make it a bad idea, which you seemed to be implying was the case.

Quote:
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Besides, "it's a change for gameplay" is a poor explanation as to why we see many Jedi use double-blades in the first games and then poof, they shouldn't use it anymore.
*sigh* how many times do I have to explain the same thing? LS uses could still use the double-blade, while DS users could still use twin blades. Same as LS users using DS powers and vice versa.

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Ok, so where is the evidence that the Dark Side fuels double-bladed saber skill? We see only one Dark Sider use it. Note one.
Never said the DS fuels double-blades sabre skill, just that it was connected to DS users. As for evidence

Single-sabre users
- Jedi = too many to count
- Sith = three of four

Twin single-blade users
- Jedi = anywhere between 3 and 5
- Sith = None

Double-blade users
- Jedi = None
- Sith = 1 of 4

Seems pretty clear to me.

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It's 4000 years before. Things change in 4000 years. You simply cannot apply cannon by the letter. Oh and by the way, if you really want to apply cannon by the letter, there should be two Sith in the game. No more, no less.
Yep, things change. Thats why weapons, ships, propulsion technologies etc are all the same 4000 years later. As for two Sith, the games do actually abide by that. We have

Reven and Malak
Malak and Bandon
Traya and Sion
Sion and Nihilus
Traya and Sion

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By the way, considering how unpopular that idea is, it is obvious that it isn't the way to go.
Just because it isn't popular doesn't make it a bad idea.


3yks - actually, I think RotS is the best out of the six films. As for what Lucas says, that is opinion, not fact. Irrespective of what you think of him, Lucas = Star Wars.

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A pure, unaltered, simple double-bladed lightsaber has no DS tendencies. It is not a sentient being, and it is not an artifact of the darkside. So why apply penalties to it like it is?

Wielding one is a matter of skill, not of alignment. It has nothing to do with your alignment, unless you are drawing from a certain side of the force, and that has nothing to do with the weapon.
I agree, to wield one you need not be LS or DS. However, the double-blade is, even as Atton points out, a more aggressive weapon that is designed primarily to destroy, not protect. Hence, it is a weapon more in tune with the DS, and so the more DS you are, the more use you will get out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Come on, in TSL you have Sith Assassins wielding metal sticks and you wielding that mining laser torch thingy (the one you get from the corpse in the Peragus Morgue). And Sith Assassins are never seen wielding anything but metal sticks, and you never see anyone else in the game wielding that torch weapon either. And does that mean that sticks are DS weapons, and mining torches are LS? Absolutely not.
Irrelevant. The Lightsabre is the weapon of a Jedi, as Obi-Wan points out. All other weapons are just tools.


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Never said it had anything to do with it. The point I was making was that just because something wasn't in the previous game doesn't make it a bad idea, which you seemed to be implying was the case.
No, I'm implying the inconsistency of your idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
*sigh* how many times do I have to explain the same thing? LS uses could still use the double-blade, while DS users could still use twin blades. Same as LS users using DS powers and vice versa.
*sigh* How many times do I have to explain that we don't want penalties to double-bladed LS saberists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Never said the DS fuels double-blades sabre skill, just that it was connected to DS users. As for evidence

Single-sabre users
- Jedi = too many to count
- Sith = three of four

Twin single-blade users
- Jedi = anywhere between 3 and 5
- Sith = None

Double-blade users
- Jedi = None
- Sith = 1 of 4

Seems pretty clear to me.
No it isn't. Double-blades don't seem fit to deflect blaster bolts like a single blade. The arena, that shows dual wielding Jedi, might have contained double-bladed saberists who only used one of the two sides of their sabers.
Besides, there is no solid base that double-bladed sabers are only used by Sith.
By the way, it's one Sith. Such a vast generalization is woefully unscientific.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Yep, things change. Thats why weapons, ships, propulsion technologies etc are all the same 4000 years later. As for two Sith, the games do actually abide by that. We have

Reven and Malak
Malak and Bandon
Traya and Sion
Sion and Nihilus
Traya and Sion
Hah, weird how you only fought a total of 5 saber wielding Sith in the whole two games.
What was on Korriban? An academy full of Sith !



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Just because it isn't popular doesn't make it a bad idea.
Usually yes. Marketing says so.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
I agree, to wield one you need not be LS or DS. However, the double-blade is, even as Atton points out, a more aggressive weapon that is designed primarily to destroy, not protect. Hence, it is a weapon more in tune with the DS, and so the more DS you are, the more use you will get out of it.
It was more a question of game mechanics. The double blade does more damage.
We can go as far as saying that two single blades are just as aggressive.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Irrelevant. The Lightsabre is the weapon of a Jedi, as Obi-Wan points out. All other weapons are just tools.
How is it irrelevent? He pointed how our logic was actually quite flawed.


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Old 12-14-2005, 01:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Irrelevant. The Lightsabre is the weapon of a Jedi, as Obi-Wan points out. All other weapons are just tools.
On the contrary, I think it is quite relevant. You are basing it on usage, so did I. In KotOR, most of the weapons/items that are said to be DS or LS, as far as restrictions especially, isn't the lightsaber. Most of them are robes and vibroblades, in fact- not lightsabers. So it is in fact very relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Single-sabre users
- Jedi = too many to count
- Sith = three of four

Twin single-blade users
- Jedi = anywhere between 3 and 5
- Sith = None

Double-blade users
- Jedi = None
- Sith = 1 of 4

Seems pretty clear to me.
.
*sigh* How many times do we have to tell you that it doesn't matter about the movies? This is KotOR, EU, 4000 years before Luke. Instead of 2 Sith we have 100+ plus Sith, and we have 100+ Mandalorians instead of one, etc. It doesn't matter. Many Sith in KotOR use dual blades, and same with the Jedi.

You have ignored this so many times- We are playing KotOR, and in KotOR people use the saberstaff and dual sabers, even to the opposite of the alignment you give them. So why go on about the movies, this is KotOR, and in KotOR LS Jedi use the saberstaff, and DS Sith use dual sabers- A fact which you fail to realize.

I don't care if Sith used water balloon launchers and the Jedi used golf clubs in the movies, and neither should you. This is KotOR, as I have said countless times. Stop basing it on the movies! I could give you way more examples as to force-users using the "wrong" saber type than you can give me using the "right" saber type. And since this is EU, it doesn't mean what you are saying about the movies; Not that is irrelevant
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Never said the DS fuels double-blades sabre skill, just that it was connected to DS users. As for evidence

Single-sabre users
- Jedi = too many to count
- Sith = three of four

Twin single-blade users
- Jedi = anywhere between 3 and 5
- Sith = None

Double-blade users
- Jedi = None
- Sith = 1 of 4

Seems pretty clear to me.
Perhaps you should not base a general rule on a single observation .... would you say "All swans are black" after seeing one of this kind?
I believe the main reason why we do not see too many jedi using a double bladed saber is that it is difficult to construct and to master, requiring a lot of focus on martial skills, while most jedi prefer to focus on other things and follow the ideal of pacifism.
However this IMHO does not make the construction or use of a double-bladed saber DS - just like being a guardian/weaponsmaster does not make you DS.

Quote:
I agree, to wield one you need not be LS or DS. However, the double-blade is, even as Atton points out, a more aggressive weapon that is designed primarily to destroy, not protect. Hence, it is a weapon more in tune with the DS, and so the more DS you are, the more use you will get out of it.

Irrelevant. The Lightsabre is the weapon of a Jedi, as Obi-Wan points out. All other weapons are just tools.
Again, all I can say is "Try it out!"
IMO the lesser range and steadier grip make the double-bladed saber better for parrying than attacking, while it is pretty hard to parry with 2 sabers, forcing you to attack rapidly in order to not grant the opponent an opportunity to strike.
Btw. I also think the way double-bladed sabers (and other double-bladed weapons) are handled in the KOTOR games are not too representative ... IMHO the stats should be more like +1 attack, -2 attack malus, +2 defense or something like that...
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:44 PM   #38
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Leave the lightsabers alone PLEASE!!! I like them just the way they are however I do like the idea of the colored crystals giving bonus to attributes. The support crystals do something similar to the hit and damage bonus.

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Old 12-14-2005, 10:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
*sigh* How many times do I have to explain that we don't want penalties to double-bladed LS saberists.
Perhaps. But then politics shows us that people will many times say they don't want something simply because they are afraid of change, and then find out they like it. Aside from that, only a very small sample has said no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
No it isn't. Double-blades don't seem fit to deflect blaster bolts like a single blade. The arena, that shows dual wielding Jedi, might have contained double-bladed saberists who only used one of the two sides of their sabers.
Besides, there is no solid base that double-bladed sabers are only used by Sith.
By the way, it's one Sith. Such a vast generalization is woefully unscientific.
Your point about deflecting blaster bolts is exactly my point - the double blade isn't defensive, it is aggressive, which is why it is more in-tune with the DS. As for the arena Jedi, show me a single example of a Jedi using a double bladed lightsabre and I will concede the point. Even if they aren't using both sides, the hilt is quite a bit longer so it should be easy enough to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Hah, weird how you only fought a total of 5 saber wielding Sith in the whole two games.
What was on Korriban? An academy full of Sith !
and seeing as how I'm a purist, you can tell how much that annoyed me. Really though, they weren't Sith - they were bad Jedi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
How is it irrelevent? He pointed how our logic was actually quite flawed.
It's irrelevant because they aren't lightsabres, which are intricately tied to force users. Other weapons are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Stop basing it on the movies!
What?!?!?!?!?!?! Um, let me think about that for a second - no. EVERYTHING in Star Wars is based on the films. If you don't like it I suggest you get over it.

If you can show me a single piece of evidence from the films that says I'm wrong, then show me where it is and, as I said to luke, I will remove this idea and never speak of it again.

Just looked at the starwars.com Datbank, which specifically calls the double-blade the "Sith Lightsabre". Link is http://www.starwars.com/databank/tec...ber/index.html

Also says that it was only seen in TPM so luke, I doubt you'll find any Jedi using it in the arean.

Finally - still looking for comments about my other ideas, such as the new LS/DS names for non-Jedi Prestige classes.


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Last edited by Darth Windu; 12-14-2005 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Perhaps. But then politics shows us that people will many times say they don't want something simply because they are afraid of change, and then find out they like it. Aside from that, only a very small sample has said no.
Actually, a lot of people said no, and if you look at the history of the double blade in games, they have rarely been exclusively given to Dark Side users. They weren't in Jedi Academy and they aren't in both KotOR games.

Besides, it's a bad idea because it's a penalty against LS double-bladed saber users. It is used to penalize those LS who want to use something they're not supposed to use. There is nothing that indicates that only Sith use double blades.

Oh, and by the way, this isn't the realm of politics, it's the realm of marketing and in this realm, popular opinion is the rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Your point about deflecting blaster bolts is exactly my point - the double blade isn't defensive, it is aggressive, which is why it is more in-tune with the DS. As for the arena Jedi, show me a single example of a Jedi using a double bladed lightsabre and I will concede the point. Even if they aren't using both sides, the hilt is quite a bit longer so it should be easy enough to find.
I would search it now, but I'm busy.
Sometime I might look at it more closely.
Also, if "agressive" is in tune with the Dark Side, we should remove the Jedi Guardian and Weapon Master.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
and seeing as how I'm a purist, you can tell how much that annoyed me. Really though, they weren't Sith - they were bad Jedi.
Yeah, they learn the code of the Sith, are lead by two Sith masters, have Sith teachers but aren't Sith
You just refuse to see the truth.
By the way, it would be wonderful fun if we only fought two lightsaber wielding opponents in the whole game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
It's irrelevant because they aren't lightsabres, which are intricately tied to force users. Other weapons are not.
Actually, it is. You're saying that a double-bladed saber can only be used by Dark Siders because we see only one of them using it.
Note one.
He says that since we see only one person using a plasma torch, that weapon must be related to the Jedi.
Note one.
He's only applying the same logic of generalization on one person.

It's like saying one white man is a racist so all white men are racists.
You're making a very vast generalization based upon one person.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
If you can show me a single piece of evidence from the films that says I'm wrong, then show me where it is and, as I said to luke, I will remove this idea and never speak of it again.
Your "evidence" and your entire idea is based on one person out of four.
I'm sure you know a bit about statistics as I assume that you've been to Uni and can make a good reasoning. When the sample is so small, you simply cannot make a correct conclusion.


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