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Old 12-18-2005, 12:44 AM   #1
Darth Windu
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My KotOR3 Gameplay Ideas

If you're wondering 'I thought this thread was longer' then you are right. However, I decided to delete my original thread on the same topic because it turned into an argument on one point of the many I have put forward, which really should have been in another topic. That idea has been removed.

Well, having played both KotOR and KotOR2 many times, I thought I may as well post some ideas I have for gameplay improvements if there is a KotOR3. Anyway, here goes.


Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.


Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Peacekeeper/Mercenary would get the same extra two-weapon fighting and weapons proficiency feat options as the Jedi Weapon Master. These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Peacekeeper/Mercenary?

- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.


Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.


Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.

- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.


Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma


Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk or whatever base you are using at the time, and then have no access to any other weapon you have picked up previously once you leave your base, much like the system used in Jedi Academy. However, if you picked up items while travelling, they would all be accessible to your party members.

- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.

- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.


NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.


Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.

- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.

- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.


Swoop racing
- Enable player to purchase or choose a swoop bike at the start of the game. Bikes could come in combinations of average acceleration/average top speed, poor acceleration/good top speed, good acceleration/poor top speed etc.

- Allow Swoop bike upgrades to be purchased.

- Enable swoop bike ‘tuning’ to fit them better to each track.


Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots. Effectively, they would be at one extreme, with blaster Rifles in the middle, and Repeating blasters at the other end. This would also lend different attack feats to different weapons. Power Blast would be very useful for Sniper rifles while Rapid Shot would suit Repeating blasters more by accentuating their strengths.

- Add Assault Rifles. Especially rifles similar to modern weapons such as the M-16/M-203 combination. This would allow NPC’s to launch grenades and darts from their weapons much like Mira’s rocket launcher in KotOR2 instead of having to throw them.

- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.


Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.

- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.


Thoughts?


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Last edited by Darth Windu; 12-22-2005 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 12-18-2005, 01:05 AM   #2
RobQel-Droma
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Everything but removing short lightsabers and restricting force powers.
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Old 12-18-2005, 01:18 AM   #3
Darth Windu
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Rob - not sure if you saw it, but I've also added my 'Loadout' idea, that is similar to JA.


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Old 12-18-2005, 03:30 PM   #4
Darca Lar
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Well, i like the weapon idea with the contents of the gun and sword holsters, the whole idea that it shows the character with these actual things on them rather than its there one second, gone the next. Getting rid of the short lightsabers might be fine from your point of view since they are used just like a standard lightsaber only shorter, but if they changed the style to holding the saber reversed and giving it its own attacks with maybe like spd/evade is higher, but dmg/crit is lower, it could stay. And with the loadout thing, i get what your saying, and i dont think i would mind all that much to have that, but if the loading screens are still there and the return to base option isnt, then the loadout thing would kinda suck. Put in the return to base option and take out the loading screen wait times, then the loadout thing might not be a bad thing really...


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Old 12-18-2005, 05:15 PM   #5
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Hmm, I missed that Darth Windu. I'd have to say no, I guess. While I think it is a good idea and all, it still wouldn't be as fun for me. It would be more realistic, and maybe make the game more interesting, probably. But the fact is, I guess it is just my personal preference.
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Old 12-18-2005, 05:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
I say just make the AI smarter so they use the best attack anyway, what if oyu ome across a character that is immune to critical strikes and you have your NPCs using critical strike? Their attacks wouldnt do anything and you would then have to go in and change their attacks anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes.
Non Jedi prestiage classes sound good to me, just aslong as they are don well and are balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
Dont really care either way about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.
Maybe maybe not, depends what the rules for the game (the original d20 version which this is based on) says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.
NO NO NO NO NO.

"Im evil! I attack! I get hurt! I must resort to med packs to heal me! Oh noes I run out of dem! I die rather then being able to force the force to heal me to make me stronger!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.
Pretty much done. You must be a certain level before you get them anyway and your PC is usually a prestiage class at that level anyway. But yeah sounds fine on paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabre
- Remove short lightsabres. They are for all intents and purposes useless.
In your opinion they are useless. Lets just get rid of vibroblades, guns, armour etc, in my opinion they are useless because I dont use them even though everyone else might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma
No. If I use a counseller and I want them to be stronger I would have to use a red saber. What if I want them to use a veridian one but get the bonus?

Its the same as restricting force powers based on DS or LS, not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk
Ugh no. Just no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.
I wouldnt mind seeing the weapons I give my characters on them as part of their outfit, if they were on their back / thigh as you were exploring and not in your hands. Running around with swords or blasters out looked stupid to me anyway. If just as oyu entered combat they character pulled out his swords / guns (which ever was in weapon spot 1) and started using them it would be good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.
Never used holdout blasters, prefered to use either blow the bad guys away or slice and dice them. They usually dont need to be stunned or held in place while I do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.
I dont really want to have to keep changing my clothes to "fit in" so to speak. What if oyu are suddenly ambushed by a bunch of guys carrying big heavy guns ... oopsey to fit in to the area you are wearing clothes. Not the best protection against weapon fire. It wouldnt make for much fun. Especially as you cant sudenly change your armour in the middle of combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.
Agreed, it wouldnt make sense for that evil sith saber from K1 to be spawned in the middle of Dantooine rather then the sith trial tomb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels.
Not really a good idea, there should be a chance that each shopkeeper has certain items but saying "guy with cheap stuff cant have expensive good stuff" doesnt really make for fun roleplaying, look at auctions, sometimes you find something at a auction that is really worth paying for but might be worth a lot more then the other items there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.
Agreeds mostly, dark jedi / light side jedi should drop things related to what they are wearing carrying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Swoop racing
Never bothered with swoop racing except where we were forced to so dont really care for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Add Assault Rifles.
We already have repeating blasters and heavy guns in game so another one isnt really needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.
Guess I never noticed they were mising ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.
All but lightsabers and unique items. I dont want to be able to make Jolees Robe on the Hawk' etc. But normal robes, swords, armour etc yeah sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.
Id prefer if a work bench was more like a computer that already had the plans their for you to view while you build an item. I dont want to be forced to give up some of my items just so I can recreate them, this would be a penalty to the player. ie They start the game with a vibroblade, we find a workbencha nd decide to make another vibroblade. We would have to give up the one we have, but oopsey w find we dont have enough components to make two vibroblades seeing we dont get components back from breaking the one we had down. In fact seeing we didnt have components first we cant even make one! Yah! We now have no vibroblades at all and are now weaponsless.
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:15 PM   #7
RobQel-Droma
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Meh, guess I'll give my ideas and thoughts too, since the other thread is gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Personally, I think you should change "peacekeeper" to something else, it doesn't sound right at all. How about this:

Soldier ---> Commando (LS)/ Mercenary (DS)
Scout ---> Ranger (LS)/ Bounty Hunter (DS)
~(Keep scoundrel the same)~

I know you think that "Commando" should be for scouts, but I say have a scout become a "Ranger" if LS. If you remember, in the beginning of K1, if you were a soldier, Trask remarks about you being an elite commando; He doesn't say that if you were a scout, he just says something about exploring worlds, which fits a "Ranger."

[QUOTE=Lightsabre
- Remove short lightsabres. They are for all intents and purposes useless.[/QUOTE]

As Jackel said, just because you think they are useless doesn't mean other people don't use them. They can have their uses, and they do help in the offhand, even if you don't notice it.

And they aren't exactly detrimental, so why get rid of them? You don't have to use them, you know. In fact, one thing that would be nice is to maybe make it so that if you wield two at the same time it adds another attack, or something, just to increase their usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them.
Yes, I have thought about that too. I was thinking along the lines that since blue (or shades of blue) is used by a Guardian, give bonuses that are suited to a Guardian. Same for the other classes. Also, what about giving the "in-between colors" (colors that are the combination of a Jedi color and Sith red: Orange, Purple, etc.) a combination of a Sith bonus and Jedi bonus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Swoop racing ~snip~
Yes, although I think that you should purchase one later than the beginning. I like the rest, I was dissapointed that stuff wasn't in the first two games.

To go along with that, I'll add something. What about having different races where you are actually racing other people on the track at the same time, like podracing? You'd have bigger tracks, and it wouldn't really depend on time. That is what I wanted to do on swoop racing in K1 and TSL, but it was timed races instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots.
And probably be very good at Sniper Shot, too. I've always wondered why there hasn't been a sniper weapon so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.
You know what I think, but I'll post it anyways. No. I'm usually a Jedi and I really like Force Storm. Besides, trust me, penalties are enough. One time I gave myself Force Crush as a Jedi, and I could only use it ONCE before I ran out of enough force. Trust me, its good as it is. I usually don't waste stuff on Charisma, so that is probably my lowest attribute- I don't need restrictions.

Have you ever tried using Master Heal as a super dark character? Even though you can use it, it is just plain not practical or efficient. And that is the way it should be- Sith should be able to use it, but not to any kind of efficiency. It just is anothing thing that would make the game terrible for some people, because the devs decided that they can't use a certain force power no matter what. Not to mention it would contradict everything in the last two games.

And about the grey Jedi, NO. That goes against what a grey Jedi is, in fact. They aren't outcasts that can't draw from the force, they are people who have left the Jedi because they aren't satisfied with them, nor are they with the Sith. So, they usually create their own set of beliefs about the force taking from both sides- they are the middle of good and evil, so they are drawing from both, as they see fit.
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel


NO NO NO NO NO.

"Im evil! I attack! I get hurt! I must resort to med packs to heal me! Oh noes I run out of dem! I die rather then being able to force the force to heal me to make me stronger!"
Remember that you would still have free access to Force Drain Life, and characters would still automatically regenerate health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
No. If I use a counseller and I want them to be stronger I would have to use a red saber. What if I want them to use a veridian one but get the bonus?

Its the same as restricting force powers based on DS or LS, not a good idea.
No. If you had a consular and you wanted them to be stronger, you could use implants, robes etc. As for your Veridian comment, I don't follow. The idea here is that, as KotOR pointed out, Lightsabre colours are linked to certain classes. Therefore, if colour crystals had bonuses, they should reflect the class they are linked to. Hence, as the Consular is force based, Green and Veridian would boost Wisdom. Sentinel is skills based, so Yellow and Orange boost Intelligence. Guardian is combat yet as Jedi are supposed to use it for defence, Blue and Cyan add to dexterity, while the Sith who use the force to attack get an addition to strength for Red and Purple. As the others don't fit in well elsewhere, they get an addition to charisma.

In terms of restricting force powers, it's completely different. There would be no penalties or restrictions as to what sabre colour you use, just bonuses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
I dont really want to have to keep changing my clothes to "fit in" so to speak. What if oyu are suddenly ambushed by a bunch of guys carrying big heavy guns ... oopsey to fit in to the area you are wearing clothes. Not the best protection against weapon fire. It wouldnt make for much fun. Especially as you cant sudenly change your armour in the middle of combat.
Uh, well then you're an idiot for not wearing armour/robes in that area now aren't ya? Just seems to me that it would add more depth to the areas you're wandering around in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
Not really a good idea, there should be a chance that each shopkeeper has certain items but saying "guy with cheap stuff cant have expensive good stuff" doesnt really make for fun roleplaying, look at auctions, sometimes you find something at a auction that is really worth paying for but might be worth a lot more then the other items there.
Perhaps, but this isnt an auction. In general, shops are divided into categories depending on what they sell. For example, you're not going to find Diamond Rings worth thousands of dollars at Kmart now are you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
We already have repeating blasters and heavy guns in game so another one isnt really needed.
Sniper Rifles are completely different, as are Assault Rifles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
Id prefer if a work bench was more like a computer that already had the plans their for you to view while you build an item. I dont want to be forced to give up some of my items just so I can recreate them, this would be a penalty to the player. ie They start the game with a vibroblade, we find a workbencha nd decide to make another vibroblade. We would have to give up the one we have, but oopsey w find we dont have enough components to make two vibroblades seeing we dont get components back from breaking the one we had down. In fact seeing we didnt have components first we cant even make one! Yah! We now have no vibroblades at all and are now weaponsless.
Well then you're an idiot for breaking down your only weapon. You're assuming that people won't think about these things - I'm sure they will. It doesn't take a great deal of intelligence to figure out that if you break down your only weapon, you won't have a weapon anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Personally, I think you should change "peacekeeper" to something else, it doesn't sound right at all
Yeah I know, I can't think of anything else though.

As for the Scout --> Commando, if you're a Scout in KotOR, Carth says you 'have the skills of an elite Commando'. Besides, Commandoes really do have more in common with Scout's than Soldiers. As for 'Ranger', the problem with that is it's US-specific. Everyone knows what a Commando is, but the Rangers aren't as well known. Funnily enough, the reason the US forces are called Rangers is because the Brit's already had the name 'Commando'


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Old 12-19-2005, 01:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)
Mmm, not quite. Smugglers and commandos could be evil. I like that idea, but I don't think the alignment part is needed. Best to save that for the Jedi classes. It might be best like this:

Scoundrel -> Smuggler

Scout -> Mercenary

Soldier -> Commando

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
I disagree. I would not like my character to be classified as a "Sith Force Master".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma
That is unrealistic. Simply using different color crystals does not affect the properties of a lightsaber. Red crystals actually do slightly more damage, but apart from that, none of them have any unique attributes apart from color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.
Some shopkeepers should have better items than others, but there is no reason to give them levels.

What I did not quote I agreed with.


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Old 12-19-2005, 01:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
As for the Scout --> Commando, if you're a Scout in KotOR, Carth says you 'have the skills of an elite Commando'
I don't really remember him saying that. I do remember Trask saying that you are an elite commando if you are a soldier. Of course, you could look at it one way and say that just because Carth said you had the "skills" of one didn't mean he said you were one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackel
No. If I use a counseller and I want them to be stronger I would have to use a red saber. What if I want them to use a veridian one but get the bonus?

Its the same as restricting force powers based on DS or LS, not a good idea.
Not really- with anything else can you choose what bonus you get? No, you can't. And the idea isn't restricitive, it is adding something to you. May not be what you want, but still; Any bonus is better than no bonus, and the idea doesn't penalize someone.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I don't really remember him saying that. I do remember Trask saying that you are an elite commando if you are a soldier. Of course, you could look at it one way and say that just because Carth said you had the "skills" of one didn't mean he said you were one.
Carth only says that if you're a male character.


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Old 12-19-2005, 02:42 AM   #12
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My humble suggestion Darth Windu is to go out and find a copy of the Basic Star Wars D20 RPG Book (by Wizards of the Coast), read it and soak in how the game works and it's rules, then re-work your ideas to fit into that system.

As things like assault rifles don't exist in that game system, you want Repeating Blasters for this weapon type, a Light Repeating Blaster is equal to an Assault Rifle.

Class names cannot be changed as they are fixed classes bound by the system. in D20 D&D a Paladin is a Paladin, you can feel free to call your Paladin character a High Templar if you want to in the game as you are roleplaying him/her, but your actual class is fixed as a Paladin, the same applies to D20 Star Wars. A Sith Lord is a Sith Lord, you can call yours a High Priest of Wacca Wacca if you want to in-game, you are still a Sith Lord Class.

Also basic weapons (aka Color Crystals, Basic Sabers) cannot possess any "Magical" type bonuses, remember this only applies to the basic ones, not unique ones you could find later, like say a Marka Ragnos Vein of Hate Color Crystal. It can have bonuses, but basic weapons do not.

Lastly, your whole Force and Feat adjustments are out of place because you lack an understanding of the game system itself, but once you read up on it I think this part could change.

Little things like this. Once you read up a little and see what the games rules say or don't say, if you adhere to those rules when re-working your ideas you will be far better off.

Again just a humble suggestion!


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Old 12-19-2005, 03:56 AM   #13
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RedHawke - how do I find a copy of the D20 rules?

As for the colour crystals, are they not magical? After all, if bonuses were added to them, then they would be no different to any of the other crystals in terms of modifiers.

With the feats, why wouldn't that be possible? I've actually just modified the feats.2da file for TSL which should give, for example, Force Jump feats to Weapons Masters at levels 18, 24 and 30. Whether it works or not is another thing.

Oh yeah, why can't an Assault Rifle exist? Firstly, it's not a light repeating blaster - different weapon. The Assault Rifle would have the same properties as the normal Blaster Rifle, but with the added ability to fire grenades like Mira's launcher.


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Old 12-19-2005, 05:00 AM   #14
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RedHawke - how do I find a copy of the D20 rules?
Your best bet is either a Bookstore, RPG Game Shop, or EBay.com... Or here at Amazon.com

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Originally Posted by Darth Windu
As for the colour crystals, are they not magical? After all, if bonuses were added to them, then they would be no different to any of the other crystals in terms of modifiers.
Any bonuses on a color crystal or saber, especially ones that add an attack/defense bonus, attribute bonuses, or blaster bolt deflection bonus are considered supernatural or "Magical" in game terms. Attribute bonuses are among the most powerful bonuses you can give an item.

Stock normal game items almost never have these kinds of bonuses. And the basic color crystals create the basic sabers listed in the RPG book and the game, they have no bonuses for a reason as they are meant to be starting equipment, and in RPG terms you never give starting characters equipment with those kinds of bonuses. The add-on crystals and upgrades that you find or make later on are the actual "Magical" bonus adding part of the lightsaber process, it should stay that way.

While unique color crystals should exist that give bonuses, bonuses should never be applied to the standard saber color crystals.

While there is no problem finding a Vein of Evil, or Source of Light unique color crystal during play that gives huge bonuses to my saber, you should never apply any bonuses to base game items. This is what we in PnP RPG circles call a "Monty Haul" type game, with beginning equipment like this why go adventuring?

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With the feats, why wouldn't that be possible? I've actually just modified the feats.2da file for TSL which should give, for example, Force Jump feats to Weapons Masters at levels 18, 24 and 30. Whether it works or not is another thing.
Just because you can do it in a 2da files does not mean it fits the games rules system... Class Feats are almost never available to anyone else for the simple reason there is no need to play a certain class if everyone can get those Feats, even Prestiege Classes (Who have their own bonuses).

Also remember in the eyes of the game system when you switch to another class or Prestiege class you no longer gain expirience as your previous base class, that is why Force Jump will not be able to be improved by even a synergious class like a Jedi Weapon Master or Sith Marauder, you have become another class completely, and immediately halt any and all advancement in your previous class, you don't lose anything, but the old classes abilities and bonuses will never improve. This is all part of the necissary checks and balances in a game system, without these the game loses it's fun factor, believe me.

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Oh yeah, why can't an Assault Rifle exist? Firstly, it's not a light repeating blaster - different weapon. The Assault Rifle would have the same properties as the normal Blaster Rifle, but with the added ability to fire grenades like Mira's launcher.
Simple, it is Star Wars, there are no "Assault Rifles" that is very much an Earth based weapon term. Not to mention it isn't on the base weapons list.

But I never said the weapon "couldn't exist" I just was saying to you that the term wouldn't exist and what it would be called in Star Wars. (See Below)

Under barrel (M-203) Grenade Launchers are not standard game Blaster Rifle components as they have limited use in Star Wars compared to our world. But they are an optional Blaster Rifle attachment (At least we use them in our games, but we play D6 Star Wars so there are differences)... but these are House Rules at best. I have just looked and there are no listed Grenade Launchers in the base equipment, while I'm sure they do exist in D20 SW, they aren't in the base book.

Just for FYI and some typing fun, some simple Star Wars RPG to Our World Weapon class equivalents... What you call them in Star Wars.

Assault Rifle = Blaster Rifle (Small Calibur, M-16) or Light Repeating Blaster (Large Calibur, AK-47)
Sniper Rifle = Blaster Rifle, Sporting
Small Caliber Pistol = Hold-Out Blaster
Target Pistol = Blaster Pistol, Sporting
Med. Cal. Pistol = Blaster Pistol
Magnum Pistol = Heavy Blaster Pistol
Machine Gun = Heavy Repeating Blaster
Light Machine Gun = Repeating Blaster or Light Repeating Blaster
SMG = Blaster Carbine
Anti-Tank Weapon (Bazooka, RPG, LAW, HAW) = Blaster Cannon

You can acertain this from the item descriptions in the game book, but I put this here to give you a head start.

I hope this helps explain some of the things!


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Old 12-19-2005, 01:29 PM   #15
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Talking about classes, there is something else I would like to know. Since Redhawke seems to know everything about RPGs, is it possible to make it so you could level up a character as a previous class: for example, leveling up Bao-Dur one time as a Tech Specialist even though his current class is Jedi Guardian?

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Oh yeah, why can't an Assault Rifle exist? Firstly, it's not a light repeating blaster - different weapon.
There I disagree with you, I think that an "Assault Rifle" is pretty much the repeating blasters. Besides, why do we really need a weapon that is pretty much the same as another? The grenade thing doesn't do much, besides a different animation- you might as well just throw them.

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As for the colour crystals, are they not magical? After all, if bonuses were added to them, then they would be no different to any of the other crystals in terms of modifiers.
Well, I don't think they are magical, although I like the idea. But as far as realism I agree with Redhawke, the crystal in itself wouldn't have special powers. Of course, he also said something about "Marka Ragnos's Vein of Hate Crystal", and I think that is a good idea, having special crystals, for instance: Bring back the MotF and HotG, have other special crystals, like the one mentioned (VoH) and perhaps others, to have even more special color crystals.
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:36 AM   #16
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Well with the colour crystals, thats why I liked KotOR a bit better. It made sense to me that the normal colours - Red, Purple, Yellow, Green, Blue do normal stuff, while the oddly coloured ones like Cyan had some special properties.


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Old 12-20-2005, 12:43 AM   #17
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Talking about classes, there is something else I would like to know. Since Redhawke seems to know everything about RPGs, is it possible to make it so you could level up a character as a previous class: for example, leveling up Bao-Dur one time as a Tech Specialist even though his current class is Jedi Guardian?
Nope, once you accept the new class you are literally forgoing any further advancement in your previous class... this has to be done for game balance issues.

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Well, I don't think they are magical, although I like the idea.
Anything supernatural I refer to Magical simply because D20 has it's roots in Dungeons & Dragons, and items with properties like those were called "Magic Items"... in the eyes of the D20 game system they are "Magic" because of this relation to it's Fantasy cousin, so is the Force the realm of Magic.


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Old 12-20-2005, 10:56 PM   #18
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Okay, I've now refined my idea for 'loadout'. What I'm thinking now is that you have different weapons-carrying places. These would be

1. Thighs (new) - can carry two single-handed weapons such as vibro-blades, lightsabres, blaster pistols etc

2. Back (new) - can carry one two-handed weapon such as double-bladed lightsabre, blaster rifle etc

3. Forcearms (old) - in addition to energy shields, can carry two 'holdout' (aka miniature) blasters

This would fit in with the KotOR2 system of carrying two weapons you can quickly switch between. So, for example, if carrying two lightsabres on your thighs and a rifle on your back, your sabres would be your primary weapon and your 'switch' weapon would be the rifle.

Thoughts?


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Old 12-20-2005, 11:27 PM   #19
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Well, seeing as how I don't really like the idea, I couldn't really offer anything. But if it was implemented, what about this: You know those "metal cases" that were lying around in TSL? What if you got to take x many of those for every character you take out, along with a backpack on each of them. The metal cases and backpacks would have to have a item limit, but it would still work.

After all, it is a good bet that your party members could carry something like that around, as long as it wasn't so heavy or filled with 40 or more items. Just have a rating for the items, like "heavy," "light", "medium", "miniscule." Then have a value you could get it up too before you couldn't fit anything else. Have the option to take things out of there like it was your regular inventory, but then make it so they would go straight back to that same case/pack, just to not have so much micro-managing every time you leave.

As for your idea, you could have that too- alternate weapons on your back or belt. And I bet that belts, implants, stims, medpacks, shields, and maybe another set of gloves could all be carried on you or on pouches in your clothes.

The only problem with having all of this (beside the fact that I'm not too keen on the idea) is the amount of complexity and time it would add too the game, and all the managing you would have to do just so you could set foot outside the Hawk. So, I don't really want this idea too happen, but if it does, I'll just have to hope that something like what I suggested will be used.

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Mmm, not quite. Smugglers and commandos could be evil.
Umm... What do you mean? Commando doesn't really imply any side at all, it is not an "evil" name like Assassin; Soldiers could be evil too, if they were Sith. So what you are saying doesn't really mean anything. A lot of other names for classes "could" be evil people, possibly. It is just a rank, one that isn't usually thought of as evil.

As for Smuggler, well, what about Scoundrel? Scoundrel doesn't really sound like a LS person, although they might not be DS necessarily. Han Solo was a smuggler, and he wasn't evil. Smugglers aren't mostly evil people, just kind of law-breakers- much like a Scoundrel is. Again, not relevant that they "could" be evil, and mostly not true.

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That is unrealistic. Simply using different color crystals does not affect the properties of a lightsaber. Red crystals actually do slightly more damage, but apart from that, none of them have any unique attributes apart from color.
So is living through 5 plasma grenades- and living to do it again. Many things are "unrealistic." But anyways, I understand what you are saying, and it might be "unrealistic" in a KotOR sense, but still- most color crystals are found on certain planets (green/blue on Ilum, purple on Hurikaine, etc.), so it isn't that farfetched that they might inherit small properties.
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Old 12-20-2005, 11:35 PM   #20
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Well Rob, as I said, the system would be like JA. In that game, you get to take your lighsabre (or sabres), a blaster pistol, two extra weapons, and some grenades. Obviously that's too much to be realistic, but just having the items limited a bit adds some realism.

In that sense I wouldn't have a problem with ading more items but as I said, while you're wandering around, any items you found would be useable in the same way they are in the previous games, it's just that you can't take lots of items from the Hawk, not that you can't carry them.


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Old 12-21-2005, 12:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Lightsabre
- Remove short lightsabres. They are for all intents and purposes useless.
They are NOT useless. With the right upgrades, they can be made into some deadly weapons especially if used in the Off hand

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Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma
I'll give you credit on this mainly because the power crystals used to enhance the blade work similarly, mostly for attack/defense mods but I think one plays to your attributes. So 10+ points for you

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Old 12-22-2005, 05:29 AM   #22
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Alright, main post has now been changed to remove the 'remove short sabres' bit. Obviously some people want them and really it doesn't affect those who don't use them.


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Old 12-22-2005, 02:39 PM   #23
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You've seen the light! Exactly as you said, some people use them, and the people that don't don't have to use them- there's no skin off of anyone's nose.
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Old 12-23-2005, 12:33 AM   #24
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See Rob, I can be reasonable every now and then


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Old 12-23-2005, 12:35 PM   #25
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You- you can? *jaw drops*... Just kidding.

Now, don't you think that you ought to follow that up by dropping the saber idea...
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Old 12-23-2005, 06:07 PM   #26
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Sorry for not replying sooner - was away for several days on holiday and had no access to a comp at all! (bad idea that , must by a laptop :P)
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Remember that you would still have free access to Force Drain Life, and characters would still automatically regenerate health.
But forcing someone to choose Power X and saying "you cant choose power z" is not a roleplaying thing, I want to roleplay a slightly evil guy who still uses force heal as it is part of his background story, bring told "nope you cant do that" breaks immersion in the game and forces me to end up using certain force powers, this would make all "bad guys" exactly the same, they would have access to only powers that are restricted to darkside and no access to lightside powers. As someone else stated, you are already penalised for using lightside powers when darkside, banning darksiders or lightsiders from using certain powers is an extra penalty.

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No. If you had a consular and you wanted them to be stronger, you could use implants, robes etc. As for your Veridian comment, I don't follow. The idea here is that, as KotOR pointed out, Lightsabre colours are linked to certain classes. Therefore, if colour crystals had bonuses, they should reflect the class they are linked to. Hence, as the Consular is force based, Green and Veridian would boost Wisdom. Sentinel is skills based, so Yellow and Orange boost Intelligence. Guardian is combat yet as Jedi are supposed to use it for defence, Blue and Cyan add to dexterity, while the Sith who use the force to attack get an addition to strength for Red and Purple. As the others don't fit in well elsewhere, they get an addition to charisma.
This has already been dealt with by Red, I agree with what he said.

I never really liked the "guardians use blue, sentinals use yellow etc" thing anyway, my character is my character, and my character will use what ever colour they like because it fits the character which is what I would be roleplaying, not the class.
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In terms of restricting force powers, it's completely different. There would be no penalties or restrictions as to what sabre colour you use, just bonuses.
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Uh, well then you're an idiot for not wearing armour/robes in that area now aren't ya? Just seems to me that it would add more depth to the areas you're wandering around in.
And your an idot for making the suggestion, anyway your suggestion was NPC's react to what you wear, to make them feel more comfortable around you wearing clothes/robes would be better then wearing heavy armour, if you are wondering around in an area in your clothes having people like you and bad guys appear your stuck in your clothes.
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Perhaps, but this isnt an auction. In general, shops are divided into categories depending on what they sell. For example, you're not going to find Diamond Rings worth thousands of dollars at Kmart now are you?
Depends on how badly your local K-Mart is run

Thats the thing though, the mercahnts int he game ARENT chain stores selling the same goods on every planet, they are individuals seeing what comes in to their possesion, if a thief has to get rid of an item that is worth a pile of money he might sellit to that semi dodgy guy in the under world of coruscant, who you then come across and he offers to sell it to you. Your way of doing it would mean you would have to keep going to different mercahnts trying to find someone that sold "level 3" goods, not fun.

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Sniper Rifles are completely different, as are Assault Rifles.
I was going to write something about siper rifles in my original post, but forgot to and now cant recall what it was ...

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Well then you're an idiot for breaking down your only weapon. You're assuming that people won't think about these things - I'm sure they will. It doesn't take a great deal of intelligence to figure out that if you break down your only weapon, you won't have a weapon anymore.
You're an idiot for assuming everyone knows they wont get components for breaking down their first type of a weapon, It doesnt take a great deal of intelligence to know your idea is stupid.
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Old 12-23-2005, 10:01 PM   #27
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Rob - what Sabre idea? You mean the LS/DS modifiers for twin blades/double-blade? I've already dropped that.

Jackel - in terms of armour, thats not what I mean. I'm talking about LS/DS, not looking heavily armed. For example, if you were in Iraq and a US/Australian/British etc soldier turned up with their whole kit - kevlar vest, M-16 etc - would you be frightened or reassured?

Also for the 'breakdown item to learn how to build it' - you would think that, as with KotOR and KotOR2, there would be a small tutorial section that would introduce players to the changes made in KotOR3. Besides, you would be able to buy plans for weapons as well.


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Old 12-24-2005, 12:08 AM   #28
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*Puts on new moderator cap*

Lay off the name calling ("idiots" comments) in your posts folks...


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Old 12-24-2005, 01:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
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You're an idiot for assuming everyone knows they wont get components for breaking down their first type of a weapon, It doesnt take a great deal of intelligence to know your idea is stupid.
Well, I'm not quite sure what that means. It does tell you how many components you'll get from breaking down a weapon, so I must be missing something here... If I'm not, I'd have to agree with Darth Windu- if you didn't pay attention, that is your fault. BTW, I'm intelligent and I agree with him.
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:34 AM   #30
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Okay windu most of these ideas are awesome and Iv'e thought of them too, others are awesome and completly undreamed of by most. However I think some need a bit of tweaking For example Mercenaries and bounty hunters are neutral maybe for scout it could be "infiltrator", or "spy" and for soldier it could be "spartan" "Warrior" "Myrmidon" (yeah my soldier names suck)

wahtbut about your RPG attachement thingie MARK VI What if there was a weapon slot in your... weapon that you could place attachements like a bayonette (melee penalties removed) laser sight (+accuracy) or stun attachement (stun chance).


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Old 12-28-2005, 09:29 PM   #31
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Rok - thanks, and that bayonet attachement is actually a pretty good idea, maybe with a small penalty for ranged shots due to the added weight and unbalancing effect.


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Old 12-29-2005, 12:28 PM   #32
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Thanx I suggested that stuff months ago and it never caught on... I never thought of the weight thing tho yeah it might and penalty to pistols (especially holdouts!).


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Old 12-30-2005, 01:37 AM   #33
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Well I was thinking more of bayonets on Rifles, not pistols - they can't handle them.


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Old 12-30-2005, 10:20 AM   #34
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I agree with most of the ideas.

But:
Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma

No, i'd like to choose my saber color without being limited to certain colors to become stronger... even if i play as a sith i want to use a blue saber because I like a dark dressed jedi/sith with a blue saber. Saber upgrades are nice but leave the colors out.

Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.

No! On the contrary, iam really for the possibility to play a "Gray" jedi, someone who knows the light side as well as the dark side (like Revan or Jolee). Why taking away the fun to use many force powers?


All your other ideas are nice.
I've also an idea:

Make using 2 Sabers, Double bladed saber AND one saber alone equal. I Dont want to be forced to use 2 sabers to get the maximum of stat boosts (crystals). Why should a master of 2 sabers be more powerful than someone who mastered using only 1 Saber?
I Dont want them to be exactly the same but i wish the decision between 1 saber 2 sabers or double saber would be only a matter of personal preference.
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:17 PM   #35
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First let's start with Windu's ideas

- Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.

I think this is quite usefull. I always hated it when my other charactes ran out of attacks, or when you just killed one enemy and attacked the next one automaticly with normal. I also think Force Jump should be attached to this list, I wouldn't want my NPC's to go run off for Flurry when they can open with FJ.

- Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

I agree with ED here

- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.

I can see your point here, though I don't have any good names for the Sith Lord. Still any Sith class is a Sith Lord. As well as Any Jedi with a prestige class is a Jedi Master.

- Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.

With RH on this point

- Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.

Bonusses and penelties are fine by me, I also want to be able to choose freely from any Force Powers. If you ask me it's not the power you use, but it's the reasoning that makes it LS or DS

- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.

I think it works fine the way it is. No need to change it, but I wouldn't be against this idea either.

- Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma

I don't really like the idea of a preset bonus to preset color crystals. Please chech my posts here for what I would have done.

- Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk or whatever base you are using at the time, and then have no access to any other weapon you have picked up previously once you leave your base, much like the system used in Jedi Academy. However, if you picked up items while travelling, they would all be accessible to your party members.

I don't really think this is a good idea, going back to get other weapons is something I don't really want to see. Though I do generally only use one set of weapons.

- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.

Not really sure how you mean that, if it is to actually carry weapons, I think 2 sets of weapons are fine. However I would like to see the weapons holstered when out of combat. Introducing scabbards for swords and holsters for guns where they are actually holstered would be a good idea.

- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.

Sounds like a good idea to me, however I don't think they should replace your bracers/shields.

- NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.

Some form of recognition would be nice, but I don't think it should be taken too far. I think the Sith uniform on Taris would be too much, however if it has a purpose (game wise, like the uniform had) it would be fine. Otherwise/in other places a simple comment would be enough. Not restricting information you get, and not resulting in extra attacks.

- Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.

I agree, I always though it was somewhat silly that personal items were quite common.

- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.

I think this would make sense, I've never bought a Ferrari at Burger King

- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.

A good idea, I also think some attacks should be random (like the sandpeople on Tatooine) and maybe even get upgrade parts (but not 2 of the same from somebody with 1 saber)

- Swoop racing
I never did that, I don't care what you do with it.

- Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots. Effectively, they would be at one extreme, with blaster Rifles in the middle, and Repeating blasters at the other end. This would also lend different attack feats to different weapons. Power Blast would be very useful for Sniper rifles while Rapid Shot would suit Repeating blasters more by accentuating their strengths.

- Add Assault Rifles. Especially rifles similar to modern weapons such as the M-16/M-203 combination. This would allow NPC’s to launch grenades and darts from their weapons much like Mira’s rocket launcher in KotOR2 instead of having to throw them.

Sounds good to me, but just as extra weapons, not with their own line of feats. Also I think sniper shot should be usefull for sniper rifles, instead of powerblast.

- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.

Agreed

Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.

- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.

I think the workbench works fine the way it is (K2). I don't need extra items as there are plenty of everything in the game.

Now something I'd like to see as well is that armor absorbs damage, and not increases the change you avoid getting hit.
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Old 12-30-2005, 04:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
No, i'd like to choose my saber color without being limited to certain colors to become stronger... even if i play as a sith i want to use a blue saber because I like a dark dressed jedi/sith with a blue saber. Saber upgrades are nice but leave the colors ou
They aren't limiting you to use a certain color, all of them give bonuses to whoever wields them. Besides, what about MotF and HotG (those super crystals in K1)? Didn't they limit you to a cyan color and orange color? If you used another color you wouldn't get those good bonuses, so how is that any different than this, where you get bonuses on all the crystals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Make using 2 Sabers, Double bladed saber AND one saber alone equal. I Dont want to be forced to use 2 sabers to get the maximum of stat boosts (crystals). Why should a master of 2 sabers be more powerful than someone who mastered using only 1 Saber?
Actually, if you hadn't noticed, for dual sabers/saberstaff to be a practical weapon for your PC, a person needs to get the Two-Weapon Fighting feats. Otherwise, if you are using a two-handed weapon, the attack and defense have a lot of penalties, unlike the single saber.

The line of feats for the single saber actually increases attack and defense, unlike the two-handed ones which reduce a penalty. So really, a single saber > two sabers/saberstaff, because of the attack/defense penalties. You can't do much good if you can't even hit the enemy.

Besides, it makes sense the way it is. You shouldn't be able to have much success wielding a saberstaff/dual sabers, versus a single saber. However, if you can master the weapon, it should become a dangerous weapon. But near the end of TLS I could take on three Sith all with dual/doublebladed sabers, and slaughter them all with a single saber, so it really doesn't do much toward the end.
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:33 PM   #37
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I like most of those ideas but the bonus for sabre cystals isn't really a great idea while idea of resricting Force powers is just bad. The modifier is good enough to discourage you but consider these points:

1. Each "power" is just a use of the Force, you don't really learn new spells.

2. In the films/books powers aren't restricted, Luke uses choke in ROTJ.

3. Drain life, Force Speed, Wound, and Heal all use the same Force skills. Jump, choke and sabre throw are also the same.

4. What if you change alignments, all those points you spent were wasted.


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Old 12-30-2005, 08:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleDog
2. In the films/books powers aren't restricted, Luke uses choke in ROTJ.
Huh? You must have the super special edition or something, because as I remember, Luke never, ever chokes anybody in RotJ. I think you must be confused with something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleDog
3. Drain life, Force Speed, Wound, and Heal all use the same Force skills. Jump, choke and sabre throw are also the same.
Don't quite understand this... What do you mean?
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Old 12-30-2005, 09:25 PM   #39
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No he's right Luke uses choke. Think back, when Luke enters Jabba's palace, Luke points to pig-man guy and he staggers back grabbing his throat and gagging.

-Introducing scabbards for swords.

Whats a scabbard? Another word for sheath? Some kind of challange buried in the ground?


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Old 12-31-2005, 01:17 AM   #40
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Rob - yeah Luke does use Force Choke on the Gamorean guards in Jabba's palace, and he uses 'force peek' on Leia

BattleDog - yes Luke does use Choke, but look at it this way. Two of the Four Sith Lords we've seen use Force Lightning, yet no Jedi ever uses it. To me, that says that it resricted to the Dark Side, while other DS powers like Choke are not.


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