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Old 12-31-2005, 01:21 AM   #41
Rok_stoned
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Plo koon uses lightning.


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Old 12-31-2005, 09:34 AM   #42
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They aren't limiting you to use a certain color, all of them give bonuses to whoever wields them. Besides, what about MotF and HotG (those super crystals in K1)? Didn't they limit you to a cyan color and orange color? If you used another color you wouldn't get those good bonuses, so how is that any different than this, where you get bonuses on all the crystals?

Yes, that's true and i didnt like it in Kotor I , i wish those crystals werent color crystals


Actually, if you hadn't noticed, for dual sabers/saberstaff to be a practical weapon for your PC, a person needs to get the Two-Weapon Fighting feats. Otherwise, if you are using a two-handed weapon, the attack and defense have a lot of penalties, unlike the single saber.

The line of feats for the single saber actually increases attack and defense, unlike the two-handed ones which reduce a penalty. So really, a single saber > two sabers/saberstaff, because of the attack/defense penalties. You can't do much good if you can't even hit the enemy.

Besides, it makes sense the way it is. You shouldn't be able to have much success wielding a saberstaff/dual sabers, versus a single saber. However, if you can master the weapon, it should become a dangerous weapon. But near the end of TLS I could take on three Sith all with dual/doublebladed sabers, and slaughter them all with a single saber, so it really doesn't do much toward the end.

And again.. i know that u can slay 3 sith at once, i did it myself. But with 2 sabers i am much stronger. And the feat u need for dual wielding can be upgraded, for weapon masters even more. Why isnt there a singel saber prestige class upgrade for 1 saber? and i cant see where the superior attack and defense is? even with the feat is is only 3 i think!

Hm i have to find out how to quote things ..
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Old 12-31-2005, 02:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok_stoned
-Introducing scabbards for swords.

Whats a scabbard? Another word for sheath? Some kind of challange buried in the ground?
Yes, a scabbard is a sheat, or a holster for a sword. Though I'm not really sure if they are exactly the same.
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok_stoned
Plo koon uses lightning.
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

No, he doesn't. In TPM he never got out of the Jedi Temple except for the Naboo victory celebration. In AotC he fought a bit with a lightsabre, and in RotS he got shot down. So where did he use Force Lightning?


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Old 01-01-2006, 01:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi
Yes, a scabbard is a sheat
Whats a sheat some sort of a challange? another word for sheath?
j/k thanks for the clarification

Plo koon uses lightning in jedi power battle as his ranged attack.


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Old 01-01-2006, 03:25 AM   #46
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I haven't replied to this, but since I have some time to kill, I'll do it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
I think smarter AI would solve the problem. Since not every attack is fit for every situation, it's not always a good idea to make the NPC stick with a default one except the multi-purpose normal attack. Critical Strike for example, has a defense penalty and it wouldn't be suited for fighting a group of enemy, yet, the NPC might be forced to use that attack.
Either, I simply think an AI boost is all we need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)
I agree with most of it, except Smuggler for Scoundrel. A Smuggler isn't generally a good guy either. I'll think about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Peacekeeper/Mercenary would get the same extra two-weapon fighting and weapons proficiency feat options as the Jedi Weapon Master. These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Peacekeeper/Mercenary?
Wouldn't be too bad an idea, but I don't think there should be a choice between Jedi and a non-Jedi class. Why? 95% of the people will choose the Jedi one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
I agree with this. Maybe not Force Master, but something more classy and less direct to the point. I'll have to think about this too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.
I'm totally against this. It kills the purpose of choosing Jedi Guardian for example instead of Sentinel if you want to become a Jedi Weapon Master later on.
I know there will be slight advantages in terms of VP and FP, but we want the classes to be sufficiently different.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.
Absolutely not. Penalties are the way to go here. However, better penalties should be implemented. I ridiculous +75% FP cost to a 100% Light Side Jedi Master using DS Force Powers is ridiculous. Something along 200% would be a lot better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.
I don't think it's necessary for Force Powers. However, allow Masters to have better feats and maybe Force Powers based on their class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma
No way. Though it wouldn't change much, I'd rather leave bonuses to bonus crystals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk or whatever base you are using at the time, and then have no access to any other weapon you have picked up previously once you leave your base, much like the system used in Jedi Academy. However, if you picked up items while travelling, they would all be accessible to your party members.
This is actually a very bad idea for an SP RPG like KotOR. Having to go back and forth between the Hawk and X place will become a major annoyance since you actually have 3 inventory to take care of. This is something that's fitting for the MMORPG, but not for KotOR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.
There wouldn't be much point in this if you don't have a restricted inventory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.
Exactly, hold-out blasters are pretty useless, as they should be. Since there's no ammo consumption or anything, such kind of back-up weapons are not very useful, unless you want to surprise someone who cheats at Pazaak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.
I have to agree with you here. There should be a decent reaction, but it shouldn't be nothing more then simple reaction. Your clothing shouldn't determine whether or not you can get certain sidequests.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.
God yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.
I don't think shopkeepers should have an independant level, but rather the shopkeepers have their inventory evolve with your level.
What I want to avoid is areas where shopkeepers are having very good and expensive items and another where the shopkeepers have bad ones. Considering we can travel to any planet first, it would be best not to force people into a certain path just so they don't have to journey to some planet for items that are not too expensive for them.
Of course, you could say let's have many shopkeepers of different levels, but then it just becomes weird that there's many person selling the same things in the same area. True in real life, but weird in RPG.

This excludes special vendors like Suvam on Yavin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.
God yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Swoop racing
- Enable player to purchase or choose a swoop bike at the start of the game. Bikes could come in combinations of average acceleration/average top speed, poor acceleration/good top speed, good acceleration/poor top speed etc.

- Allow Swoop bike upgrades to be purchased.

- Enable swoop bike ‘tuning’ to fit them better to each track.
This isn't SW: Swoop Racers of the Old Republic. Swoop racing is fun, but it should be nothing more then a mini-game. Giving it too much importance is not such a good idea. I'm not against choosing a certain swoop bike which wouldn't be too bad, but upgrades and tuning might be too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots. Effectively, they would be at one extreme, with blaster Rifles in the middle, and Repeating blasters at the other end. This would also lend different attack feats to different weapons. Power Blast would be very useful for Sniper rifles while Rapid Shot would suit Repeating blasters more by accentuating their strengths.
I'm not sure how Sniper Rifles will work out in a turn base RPG. Remember that this isn't an FPS, where Snipers can shine and seem natural.
I just don't think it would look and feel natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Add Assault Rifles. Especially rifles similar to modern weapons such as the M-16/M-203 combination. This would allow NPC’s to launch grenades and darts from their weapons much like Mira’s rocket launcher in KotOR2 instead of having to throw them.
I'm totally against this. It makes no sense in the Star Wars universe. We've never seen something like this and frankly it would look weird on one of those KotOR blasters. Mira's rocket and dart launcher was a special ability and I think we should keep it a special ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.
I agree about Heavy Weapons feat for Repeaters, but if Sniper is in, it should be something different.
Think about it. Machinegunners have different skills then Snipers.
I'd like to add that Repeating blasters should actually have repeating properties and feel like real machine guns. Right now, they're no different then regular blaster rifles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.

- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.
Again, this is something that works well for an MMORPG where such attention to particular trade skills are important, but in SP, it becomes more tedious then anything else.


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Old 01-01-2006, 06:38 AM   #47
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Rok - as much as I enjoy it, Jedi Power Battles is not canon. This is because it gives the option of different characters doing the exact same thing. For example, you can have Mace Windu rescue the Queen, fight Darth Maul etc when clearly thats not how it happened.

Luke
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I think smarter AI would solve the problem. Since not every attack is fit for every situation, it's not always a good idea to make the NPC stick with a default one except the multi-purpose normal attack. Critical Strike for example, has a defense penalty and it wouldn't be suited for fighting a group of enemy, yet, the NPC might be forced to use that attack.
Either, I simply think an AI boost is all we need.
True, but then its a question of whether they can give NPC's a smart enough AI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Wouldn't be too bad an idea, but I don't think there should be a choice between Jedi and a non-Jedi class. Why? 95% of the people will choose the Jedi one.
Maybe so, but non-Jedi are useful as well. In KotOR, I often found that Carth with twin blasters and some good heavy armour was more useful to me than Juhani, Bastila or Jolee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I agree with this. Maybe not Force Master, but something more classy and less direct to the point. I'll have to think about this too.
Yeah, I don't really care what they change the name to, just as long as it's not Jedi Master. I mean really, are we supposed to believe that every single Jedi who has ever been on the Jedi Council is a force-based prestige class? I think not. It doesn't even make the most basic of sense, because if this was the case, the training of younger Jedi would be severely restricted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I'm totally against this. It kills the purpose of choosing Jedi Guardian for example instead of Sentinel if you want to become a Jedi Weapon Master later on.
I know there will be slight advantages in terms of VP and FP, but we want the classes to be sufficiently different.
Not true. As I said, you wouldn't be automatically getting them, but they would become available to you. Just doesn't make much sense to me that a class that is supposed to specialise in melee combat doesn't have the ability to Force Jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Absolutely not. Penalties are the way to go here. However, better penalties should be implemented. I ridiculous +75% FP cost to a 100% Light Side Jedi Master using DS Force Powers is ridiculous. Something along 200% would be a lot better.
True, that would be better than the current system. I'd still like to see LS/DS bans for these two powers though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I don't think it's necessary for Force Powers. However, allow Masters to have better feats and maybe Force Powers based on their class.
The idea here is that Master's are more powerful than Knights and Padawan's. After all, at the moment a Master can have the exact same powers as a Knight, which strikes me as a bit odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
This is actually a very bad idea for an SP RPG like KotOR. Having to go back and forth between the Hawk and X place will become a major annoyance since you actually have 3 inventory to take care of. This is something that's fitting for the MMORPG, but not for KotOR.
Well, you wouldn't have to go back and forth if you equipped your party properly . This is mainly to add some realism to the game. After all, for example, I am playing KotOR2 Onderon Mk.2. At the end of the Tomb group's mission, I unequipped them, and then used that same equipment on my Iziz group. Huh? It just doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Exactly, hold-out blasters are pretty useless, as they should be. Since there's no ammo consumption or anything, such kind of back-up weapons are not very useful, unless you want to surprise someone who cheats at Pazaak.
But then every item should have a use. This is mainly for my idea of having to equip before you leave the Hawk rather than being a walking armory. This way you would be able to have, say, two lightsabres, an ion rifle and two holdout blasters in case you needed them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I have to agree with you here. There should be a decent reaction, but it shouldn't be nothing more then simple reaction. Your clothing shouldn't determine whether or not you can get certain sidequests.
Absolutely. I'm not saying that clothing as opposed to LS/DS should determine what side-quests you get. All it would be is NPC reactions to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I don't think shopkeepers should have an independant level, but rather the shopkeepers have their inventory evolve with your level.
What I want to avoid is areas where shopkeepers are having very good and expensive items and another where the shopkeepers have bad ones. Considering we can travel to any planet first, it would be best not to force people into a certain path just so they don't have to journey to some planet for items that are not too expensive for them.
Of course, you could say let's have many shopkeepers of different levels, but then it just becomes weird that there's many person selling the same things in the same area. True in real life, but weird in RPG.
Good idea, similar to KotOR2 where you can upgrade the Rodian's shop on Nar Shadaar. Maybe when you get to a certain level, shopkeepers say 'hey, you look like you could use some advanced weapons...'

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
This isn't SW: Swoop Racers of the Old Republic. Swoop racing is fun, but it should be nothing more then a mini-game. Giving it too much importance is not such a good idea. I'm not against choosing a certain swoop bike which wouldn't be too bad, but upgrades and tuning might be too much.
I'm not proposing that Swoop Racing be a huge part of the game, but I would like to see it expanded. At least Swoop Racing, as opposed to Pazaak, requires skill instead of luck. Besides, if you didn't want to upgrade your swoop etc you wouldn't have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I'm not sure how Sniper Rifles will work out in a turn base RPG. Remember that this isn't an FPS, where Snipers can shine and seem natural.
I just don't think it would look and feel natural.
Basically they would act like Rifles, except with a longer range, more power and a longer reload time. Plus, they would suffer significant penalties when firing at close range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I agree about Heavy Weapons feat for Repeaters, but if Sniper is in, it should be something different.
Think about it. Machinegunners have different skills then Snipers.
I'd like to add that Repeating blasters should actually have repeating properties and feel like real machine guns. Right now, they're no different then regular blaster rifles.
Well the problem with different feat lines for Repeating Blasters and Sniper Blasters is that it all becomes too complex and feat-consuming. This way you still have the option of using Repeating Blasters and Sniper Blasters if you have a specialised party member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Again, this is something that works well for an MMORPG where such attention to particular trade skills are important, but in SP, it becomes more tedious then anything else.
I really don't see how. After all, in KotOR2 you can already build basic Vibro-blades etc, this would just be expanding it. As for breaking an item down to gain the ability to build more of them, its rather realistic - after all, thats how reverse-engineering works. In addition to this, you would be able to buy weapons/item plans from vendors, saving you the trouble of breaking down an existing item.


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Old 01-01-2006, 01:39 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
True, but then its a question of whether they can give NPC's a smart enough AI.
I'd rather live with the idea that they can improve the AI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Maybe so, but non-Jedi are useful as well. In KotOR, I often found that Carth with twin blasters and some good heavy armour was more useful to me than Juhani, Bastila or Jolee.
I don't doubt that some more hardcore players would find it better to change some of their NPC to non-Jedi prestige classes, but it's a question of whether or not make the option useful enough for a good amount of people to use it.
Remember the dual pistol and saber wielding debate? It was even agreed by the pro party that it should be nerfed to the ground making it only a aesthetic choice for some people.
If not enough people use the option, then there's a failing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Not true. As I said, you wouldn't be automatically getting them, but they would become available to you. Just doesn't make much sense to me that a class that is supposed to specialise in melee combat doesn't have the ability to Force Jump.
Well, that's the thing. You're not a melee combat specialist. Well, not a full one. That's what class mixmatching is all about: making a certain hybrid, not bad at this but not bad at that either.
This is something natural in RPGs. When you match different classes, you try to create a hybrid, bringing the abilities of say the Sentinel and the ones of the WeaponMaster classes together.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
The idea here is that Master's are more powerful than Knights and Padawan's. After all, at the moment a Master can have the exact same powers as a Knight, which strikes me as a bit odd.
Well, more or less odd since something like Force Telekinesis wouldn't change much between a Master and a Padawan. Anyway, it would be a lot better if Masters only got special powers and feats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Well, you wouldn't have to go back and forth if you equipped your party properly . This is mainly to add some realism to the game. After all, for example, I am playing KotOR2 Onderon Mk.2. At the end of the Tomb group's mission, I unequipped them, and then used that same equipment on my Iziz group. Huh? It just doesn't make sense.
Actually, you've just proven why it's not a good idea. You're actually managing a total of 6 inventories in that situation. It becomes more tedious then anything. Even on your first playthrough, you might not even know what's waiting for you and you might pack the wrong equipment.
It might be more realistic, but it certainly is more tedious then anything else.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
I'm not proposing that Swoop Racing be a huge part of the game, but I would like to see it expanded. At least Swoop Racing, as opposed to Pazaak, requires skill instead of luck. Besides, if you didn't want to upgrade your swoop etc you wouldn't have to.
Yes, but tuning and upgrading involves getting better performances which in turn might make it a little too much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Basically they would act like Rifles, except with a longer range, more power and a longer reload time. Plus, they would suffer significant penalties when firing at close range.
Yeah, but in KotOR, you actually have to enter combat mode before firing a shot so range is more or less unimportant thus why I'm not too sure about this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Well the problem with different feat lines for Repeating Blasters and Sniper Blasters is that it all becomes too complex and feat-consuming. This way you still have the option of using Repeating Blasters and Sniper Blasters if you have a specialised party member.
Yes and no. Maybe like right now, still allow basic feats like pistols and blaster rifles but make two "specialist" feats being Sniping weapons and Repeating weapons. That way, it would make sense and not restrict people too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
I really don't see how. After all, in KotOR2 you can already build basic Vibro-blades etc, this would just be expanding it. As for breaking an item down to gain the ability to build more of them, its rather realistic - after all, thats how reverse-engineering works. In addition to this, you would be able to buy weapons/item plans from vendors, saving you the trouble of breaking down an existing item.
Like I said, it's actually more tedious then what you make it sound like.
In an MMORPG, you actually have to get a recipe for an item you want to make, gather the ingredients and then build it. It is natural for an MMORPG as it can focus on these elements.
SP RPGs tend to be different, and such kind of recipe looking becomes more tedious and might even bog down the story over keeping a decent pace.


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Old 01-01-2006, 11:17 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I'd rather live with the idea that they can improve the AI
Me too, but in the meantime this idea would be useful. Besides, all of the combat feats aside from Critical Strike are way more useful than 'attack' so it would still easily work, especially if you use something like Master Flurry which gives you an extra attack with no penalties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I don't doubt that some more hardcore players would find it better to change some of their NPC to non-Jedi prestige classes, but it's a question of whether or not make the option useful enough for a good amount of people to use it.
Remember the dual pistol and saber wielding debate? It was even agreed by the pro party that it should be nerfed to the ground making it only a aesthetic choice for some people.
If not enough people use the option, then there's a failing.
Perhaps, but then you're assuming there will be a choice between Jedi and non-Jedi. What about Mandalore for example? He can't be a Jedi, so you could turn him into a non-Jedi prestige class.
As for the duel-wielding debate, I'm a relative newbie here so I've never heard of it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Well, that's the thing. You're not a melee combat specialist. Well, not a full one. That's what class mixmatching is all about: making a certain hybrid, not bad at this but not bad at that either.
This is something natural in RPGs. When you match different classes, you try to create a hybrid, bringing the abilities of say the Sentinel and the ones of the WeaponMaster classes together.
You're a Weapons Master but not a melle specialist? As said, you'd gain the ability to learn but not gain automatically like the Guardian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Actually, you've just proven why it's not a good idea. You're actually managing a total of 6 inventories in that situation. It becomes more tedious then anything. Even on your first playthrough, you might not even know what's waiting for you and you might pack the wrong equipment.
It might be more realistic, but it certainly is more tedious then anything else.
It may be tedious, but the fact that I can do it at all is bizarre. It's like you teleporting these items from one place to another, which gets ever wierder when you consider you are teleporting them back in time as well, since the two missions happen simultaneously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Yes, but tuning and upgrading involves getting better performances which in turn might make it a little too much.
It's like sabre upgrading in KotOR2. You don't have to do it to beat the game, but it helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Yeah, but in KotOR, you actually have to enter combat mode before firing a shot so range is more or less unimportant thus why I'm not too sure about this.
But then a lot of the time you get into combat range without being in weapons range. In addition you could just increase combat range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Like I said, it's actually more tedious then what you make it sound like.
In an MMORPG, you actually have to get a recipe for an item you want to make, gather the ingredients and then build it. It is natural for an MMORPG as it can focus on these elements.
SP RPGs tend to be different, and such kind of recipe looking becomes more tedious and might even bog down the story over keeping a decent pace.
Not as complicated as you think. For example, you want to build single-bladed lightsabres. You go to your workbench and break one down, losing it forever. In exchange you get the plans to build single-bladed lightsabres. Then, you can go to the workbench at any time and, using the same 'compnents' system from KotOR2, you build as many as you want. See, easy.


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Old 01-01-2006, 11:32 PM   #50
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[Quote]Rok - as much as I enjoy it, Jedi Power Battles is not canon. This is because it gives the option of different characters doing the exact same thing. For example, you can have Mace Windu rescue the Queen, fight Darth Maul etc when clearly thats not how it happened/[Quote]

Doesn't change the fact that he can use lightning, I mean its not rewriting the history of the characters before episode I.


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Old 01-01-2006, 11:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Rok_stoned
Doesn't change the fact that he can use lightning, I mean its not rewriting the history of the characters before episode I.
Actually yes it does change it. As I said, Jedi Power Battles is NOT canon - ie, nothing that happens in the game really happened in the SW universe. As that is the only time Plo Koon is seen or referred to using Lightning, it is irrelevant. End result is that no Jedi uses Force Lightning.

As for your second post, don't spam.


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Old 01-02-2006, 12:23 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Hm i have to find out how to quote things ..
Here is how you do it: Type "
Quote:
what you are trying to quote
". Except, without the quotation marks, and the "quote" inside the brackets has to be capitalized.

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Originally Posted by Valaelastraz
Yes, that's true and i didnt like it in Kotor I , i wish those crystals werent color crystals
Well hey, for one: You don't have to use them, and for two: There are always mods. But it doesn't matter if you didn't like it, that was just the way it is, and it makes sense too- you are never, ever going to get a perfect combination of bonuses and look. Meaning that while you make like the look of say a Jedi Knight Robe, it isn't going to be able to be upgraded as much as regular armor is.

But still, even if you didn't like those crystals, this is still different. While the MotF and HotG limited you to cyan and orange, these crystals give bonuses to every color crystal, or at least a shade of it, so you get the full range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok_stoned
Doesn't change the fact that he can use lightning, I mean its not rewriting the history of the characters before episode I.
Yes it does, actually. You never see Plo Koon use lightning in any movie, so why base it on number one, a game that has no connection with the game we are talking about, and two, something that doesn't even connect with the movies? I'm not saying that we need restrictions for force powers, I just don't agree with your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
This is mainly to add some realism to the game. After all, for example, I am playing KotOR2 Onderon Mk.2. At the end of the Tomb group's mission, I unequipped them, and then used that same equipment on my Iziz group. Huh? It just doesn't make sense.
But then again, many things don't make sense- kind of like living through someone throwing a plasma grenade at you, so you really can't base it on realism in a game. It is good the way it is, I don't really think they need to change it. As LIAYD said, it would be very tedious to go through the whole system taking certain items with one party and then getting others for a different party. Its bad enough trying to keep track of upgraded armor and robes, and who is using what.
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Old 01-02-2006, 01:56 AM   #53
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Me too, but in the meantime this idea would be useful. Besides, all of the combat feats aside from Critical Strike are way more useful than 'attack' so it would still easily work, especially if you use something like Master Flurry which gives you an extra attack with no penalties.
Well, according to the manual and various guides, Power Attack is used for low armor enemies with lots of VP and flurry for high armor enemies with low VP.
It's a bit stretched, but each and every one of the attacks serve different purposes.
Like I said, improved AI is all we need.
And there's no "in the meantime" because it would technically assume that the AI in K3 will suck and let's just be optimistic enough to assume that it will be actually good.

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Perhaps, but then you're assuming there will be a choice between Jedi and non-Jedi. What about Mandalore for example? He can't be a Jedi, so you could turn him into a non-Jedi prestige class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Peacekeeper/Mercenary?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
You're a Weapons Master but not a melle specialist? As said, you'd gain the ability to learn but not gain automatically like the Guardian.
Nope. That's what mix-matching RPG classes is all about. Core RPG convention. Unmovable or it debalances everything.

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Originally Posted by Darth Windu
It may be tedious, but the fact that I can do it at all is bizarre. It's like you teleporting these items from one place to another, which gets ever wierder when you consider you are teleporting them back in time as well, since the two missions happen simultaneously.
Bizarre or not, making the gameplay as smooth as possible is preferable. What you're proposing is too many inventories. It is extremely tedious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
It's like sabre upgrading in KotOR2. You don't have to do it to beat the game, but it helps.
Yes, but sabre and combat are what? 90% of the non-dialogue game time? What about Swoop Racing? 1%? 2%? Doesn't justify the time investment especially since it's only a mini-game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
But then a lot of the time you get into combat range without being in weapons range. In addition you could just increase combat range.
Well, you walk maybe 4 steps before getting into blaster range so...increased combat ranged might not be good either. If the areas are not too big, you'll be in combat mode all the time without resting if the range is too large.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Not as complicated as you think. For example, you want to build single-bladed lightsabres. You go to your workbench and break one down, losing it forever. In exchange you get the plans to build single-bladed lightsabres. Then, you can go to the workbench at any time and, using the same 'compnents' system from KotOR2, you build as many as you want. See, easy.
I'm not saying it's complicated, I'm saying it's yet more tedious work for nothing. It's an idea that raises the question:"Why would I invest time into making objects when I could simply buy them or expect them to drop when looting corpses?"
So basically, you're just breaking it down to make the exact same weapon later, when you have enough parts.
Frankly, losing it forever is also pretty weird. I mean, what did you do with it? Carefully disassemble the thing or smashed it with a hammer?
Technically, you should be able to reassemble the thing.
Anyway, I think this is a really minor thing that you want to make bigger. In an MMORPG, yes, it's excellent, people spend time gathering things to make weapons but in SP, your goal should be to move forward in the story.


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Old 01-02-2006, 01:59 AM   #54
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I'd like to see the radial menu from NWN in KotOR III, it makes things more organized.



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Old 01-02-2006, 06:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jmac7142
I'd like to see the radial menu from NWN in KotOR III, it makes things more organized.
Now that's a superb idea! I luuurrrved the NWN radial menu... I'd like to see this option, or something similar to it's design incorporated as well..

Though, the only drawback is the players that have "grown up" along with the KotOR gameplay will be fiddling around with the controls unless they ever played any of NWN series... I'd love it, it's so much more user friendly, but unfortunately I don't think the devs would go in and re-code that part of game..

but if they did.. wow..


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Old 01-02-2006, 12:00 PM   #56
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I'm playing NWN for the first time now. I have to say, apart from being a great game, there are some excellent interface ideas I'm surprised didn't make it into KOTOR.

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Old 01-02-2006, 01:04 PM   #57
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As for your second post, don't spam.
I wasn't spamming, for some reason my stuff wouldn't work when I tried to edit it and I reloaded my browser several times tried to edit several times so I tried a bunch of things to see I if Icould even post; it worked. But I deleted it.

And also Kyle katatarn uses lightning in JKII:Outcast.

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Old 01-02-2006, 09:43 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
Though, the only drawback is the players that have "grown up" along with the KotOR gameplay will be fiddling around with the controls unless they ever played any of NWN series... I'd love it, it's so much more user friendly, but unfortunately I don't think the devs would go in and re-code that part of game..
They're going to have to do that anyway, it's going to be on a new engine(hopefully it's an Electron-derivitive, but it will definitely be a new engine). That sort of thing would be the least of their work load, especially if it's an enhanced Electron Engine and it already has the radial menu, and it probably will.



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Old 01-02-2006, 10:20 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Rok_stoned
And also Kyle katatarn uses lightning in JKII:Outcast.
Perhaps, but then Kyle isnt technically a Jedi in JK2 now is he? Besides, those events take place over 3000 years later, so it's irrelevant.

Jmac - I disagree. While the NWN interface is good, I prefer the KotOR system.

Prime - I'm playing NWN for the first time too, and I like it. I was really suprised how extensive the character creation, skills, feats etc were especially considering was made before KotOR.


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Old 01-03-2006, 12:54 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Perhaps, but then Kyle isnt technically a Jedi in JK2 now is he? Besides, those events take place over 3000 years later, so it's irrelevant.
I agree 100% percent, he technically wasn't a Jedi. In fact, if I remember, doesn't he say at a point that he isn't "a Jedi, just a guy with a lightsaber"?

And as JO isn't KotOR, and isn't ever remotely related, it really doesn't matter. While maybe he does use it, it really doesn't mean anything to this.
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Old 01-03-2006, 05:13 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I agree 100% percent, he technically wasn't a Jedi. In fact, if I remember, doesn't he say at a point that he isn't "a Jedi, just a guy with a lightsaber"?

And as JO isn't KotOR, and isn't ever remotely related, it really doesn't matter. While maybe he does use it, it really doesn't mean anything to this.
Well, the JK series builds up a bit of its own philosophy concerning the Force. In JKA Kyle literally tells you: "Remember: Powers are not inherently good or evil - it's how you use them."
This is IMHO ... not quite true to say the least. Using the Force to choke or electrify someone is most often not necessary and thus an act of evil.
Also, in my imagination the use of a Force power is related to an emotional involvement, e.g. to tap into the Dark Side to use the Force destructively you must conjure a certain hatred and will to destroy.(see e.g. the emperor's face when he uses lightning - it is stated that the Sith call upon their darker emotions to fuel their abilities)
IMO one of the main differences between jedi and Sith is that the jedi do not believe the end justifies all means (believing that the use of an evil mean while sooner or later corrupt the user) while the Sith do.
In short: I agree with the above posters that the use of Dark Side powers should not only cost additionally, but should either give the user Dark Side points after a while (which would IMO be more "realistic", but less comfortable for some I guess) or at least be restricted to a certain degree of evilness(I'm at a loss for the correct term ), depending on the power.
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Old 01-03-2006, 06:08 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
They're going to have to do that anyway, it's going to be on a new engine(hopefully it's an Electron-derivitive, but it will definitely be a new engine). That sort of thing would be the least of their work load, especially if it's an enhanced Electron Engine and it already has the radial menu, and it probably will.
Then I'd have to say "I've got my fingers crossed"

If they incorporated a radial menu.. well then, ChAiNz would be one happy camper hehehe...


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Old 01-03-2006, 07:10 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Perhaps, but then Kyle isnt technically a Jedi in JK2 now is he? Besides, those events take place over 3000 years later, so it's irrelevant.
Alright then, Kyle is a Jedi in Jedi Academy and he uses lightning in that.



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Old 01-03-2006, 08:02 AM   #64
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I like it all! I think its a great Idea


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Old 01-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineCult
Alright then, Kyle is a Jedi in Jedi Academy and he uses lightning in that.
But does he use it in the cutscenes? No, he doesn't. He only uses it in-game; because he has the force power, the AI naturally will use it sometimes when fighting. If you notice, the devs never have him use it in a cutscene (like I said), or anything where the characters are following a predetermined battle.
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Old 01-03-2006, 04:14 PM   #66
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He didn't fight in any cutscenes. The devs set the NPCs force powers individually, Luke only used light side powers, Kyle had light side powers and Lightning.



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Old 01-03-2006, 06:16 PM   #67
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This thread is too long. I can't comment on everything I don't agree with! Oh well, let me just say a few things.

First off, powerful items are kinda tricky. If they weren't random you would ALWAYS get them, and always getting the same thing would get boring. If they make it so things are random, but the game is designed to only spawn one in the whole game, that would work better, this way you might end up with it or not. However, powerful items should have more restrictions. I'd also like more offensive Light Side powers. Also just improve the general quality of things. Graphics, fix glitches, make NPCs and characters react better to your actions (like others have said, when in TSL you go DS, Atton might go DS too if you have inf with him, yet he still talks like a good guy.)
More animations couldn't hurt, as I'm tired of seeing a character say he's gonna do something, have the screen go black, and then they go, "Ok I'm done!" Can we at least see what happened? I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of em now.


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Old 01-03-2006, 06:28 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
If you're wondering 'I thought this thread was longer' then you are right. However, I decided to delete my original thread on the same topic because it turned into an argument on one point of the many I have put forward, which really should have been in another topic. That idea has been removed.

Well, having played both KotOR and KotOR2 many times, I thought I may as well post some ideas I have for gameplay improvements if there is a KotOR3. Anyway, here goes.


Attacks
- Player should be able to chose default attack for all NPC party members and self. For example, player could choose a party member to use Flurry as their default attack, which that character would use without any external input.
You can. It's called the "Tab" button.

Quote:
Classes
- Non-Jedi Prestige classes should be introduced with LS and DS variants. These would be

Soldier --> Peacekeeper (LS) / Mercenary (DS)
Scout --> Commando (LS) / Bounty Hunter (DS)
Scoundrel --> Smuggler (LS) / Slaver (DS)

These classes would give access to various feats/abilities similar to those obtained in the Jedi Prestige classes. For example, the Peacekeeper/Mercenary would get the same extra two-weapon fighting and weapons proficiency feat options as the Jedi Weapon Master. These would also provide an option in terms of training NPC party members. Do you want to train a Soldier as a Jedi Guardian, or as a Peacekeeper/Mercenary?
Bad idea. Means overly-complex start-up, and it also means you can't decide to change course midway.
Quote:
- Jedi Master should be renamed Jedi Force Master, while Sith Lord should be renamed. These titles are indicative of Rank, not ‘path’. For example, irrespective of what class you are, you will still be either a Jedi Master or Sith Lord.
Perhaps....But who ever heard of a Sith Lord who was bad at using the Force?

Quote:
Feats
- Allow associated Prestige classes access to class-specific feats. For example, if player chooses Jedi Sentinel --> Jedi Weapon Master, player should be able to choose Force Jump feats. These would not be automatically granted however.
Why do that, though? Surely it would make more sense to go Sentinel==>Watchman? And in any case, you get the JWM's special feats, don't you.

Quote:
Force Powers
- Restrict certain ‘iconic’ force powers to either Light Side or Dark Side. In this case, Force Heal could only be used by a LS Jedi, while Force Lightning could only be used by a DS Sith. Neutral players would not be able to use either.

- Restrict the final tier of force powers, eg Master Force Speed, Master Force Valour etc to Prestige classes only. This would show a much greater difference between Masters and Knights/Padawans.
1) Pretty much in the game, or did you not notice the Force Point modifiers?
2) Why? You're Lvl 15 already by the time you can get Master Speed/Valour anyhow. What would one more level make?

Quote:
Lightsabre crystals
- Give colour crystals small bonuses that reflect the Jedi/Sith that would be using them. These would be

Blue, Cyan = +1 Dexterity
Yellow, Orange = +1 Intelligence
Green, Veridian = +1 Wisdom
Red, Purple = +1 Strength
Silver, Bronze etc = +1 Charisma
Sorry, but no. They power your lightsabre...isn't that enough?

Quote:
Loadout
- Party Members should have to load up on weapons/items before leaving the Hawk or whatever base you are using at the time, and then have no access to any other weapon you have picked up previously once you leave your base, much like the system used in Jedi Academy. However, if you picked up items while travelling, they would all be accessible to your party members.
That would just be annoying.

Quote:
- Add more weapon-carriage places for party members, such as Pistol Holsters (thighs) and a backstrap for Blades, Rifles etc.

- Allow party members to carry 'holdout blaster's' on their arms, where Energy Shields are carried, much like Mira's rocket launcher. At present, 'Holdout' blasters are useless because they are simply not powerful enough, especially considering there are many much more powerful pistols out there.
Yeah, it would be make a nice doohickey-addon, but at the end of the day, it's hardly vital...

Quote:
NPC reaction to player’s clothes
- NPC’s should react to what the player is wearing, which currently does not happen. For example, an NPC will react exactly the same to you regardless of whether you are wearing Dark Jedi robes with a Red double-bladed lightsabre, or wearing Jedi robes with a Blue or Green lightsabre. This would be similar to how NPC’s react to you on Taris in KotOR if you are wearing the Sith Uniform or not.
See above. Anyway, that would take a lot of programming, extra dialogue, and more than one set of basic clothing - at the end of the day, is it worth it?

Quote:
Random Item placement
- All unique items, such as Onasi Blaster, Jolee’s Robes etc should be non-random.
Play KotOR.

Quote:
- Shopkeepers and items should be divided into levels. For example, a level 1 shopkeeper would stock very basic items, but they would be completely random basic items. To the same extent, a high level shopkeeper would stock only the best items, but would have randomised selections of the best items.

- All other loot etc should be random, but in keeping with where the loot is coming from. For example, Dark Jedi wielding Red lightsabre’s shouldn’t drop Jedi robes and Blue/Green sabres.
1) Erm, this pretty much is so anyway...
2) NO! I do NOT want to carry on finding droids with medpacs and sith soldiers carrying a lightsabre, a Ruusan crystal and the robes of an ancient Jedi mystic. It spoils the immersion completely.

Quote:
Swoop racing
- Enable player to purchase or choose a swoop bike at the start of the game. Bikes could come in combinations of average acceleration/average top speed, poor acceleration/good top speed, good acceleration/poor top speed etc.

- Allow Swoop bike upgrades to be purchased.

- Enable swoop bike ‘tuning’ to fit them better to each track.
Would be nice, yes.

Quote:
Weapons
- Add Sniper rifles. These would have a very long range and high power, but ineffective at short range and a long time between shots. Effectively, they would be at one extreme, with blaster Rifles in the middle, and Repeating blasters at the other end. This would also lend different attack feats to different weapons. Power Blast would be very useful for Sniper rifles while Rapid Shot would suit Repeating blasters more by accentuating their strengths.

- Add Assault Rifles. Especially rifles similar to modern weapons such as the M-16/M-203 combination. This would allow NPC’s to launch grenades and darts from their weapons much like Mira’s rocket launcher in KotOR2 instead of having to throw them.

- Re-introduce Heavy Weapons feats for Repeating blasters and Sniper blasters.
Modern rifles are useless compared to Star Wars rifles. Why would you want them?

Quote:
Workbench
- Allow player to build all basic weapon types eg. Vibro-blades, blaster pistols, blaster rifles, Lightsabre’s etc.

- To be able to build basic weapons, player should have to break down one example first with no components received in order to learn how to build that type of weapon.


Thoughts?
1) I think you can pretty much do this already.
2) No, that's an extremely annoying and silly idea, particularly if you're going to have a loot randomiser.



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Old 01-03-2006, 10:30 PM   #69
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You can. It's called the "Tab" button.
Not what I'm talking about. My idea here is to reduce micro-management of party members during battle.

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Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Bad idea. Means overly-complex start-up, and it also means you can't decide to change course midway.
Huh? Did you read my idea properly? This system, for party members, would be exactly the same as the prestige class in TSL. As a certain point, you would be able to either turn them into a normal Jedi class or non-Jedi Prestige class, or in cases like Mandalore, just a non-Jedi prestige class. It would add nothing as start-up, and would give you the option to change your characters through the game, which you currently can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Perhaps....But who ever heard of a Sith Lord who was bad at using the Force?
Ever heard of a Jedi who was bad at the Force? Seriously, Darth Maul would be a Sith Marauder class, yet he's still a Sith Lord. It's like saying the available classes are 'Infantry, Driver, Pilot and Colonel'. Huh? It just doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Why do that, though? Surely it would make more sense to go Sentinel==>Watchman? And in any case, you get the JWM's special feats, don't you.
That's relevant how? As for the Sentinal --> Weapon Master it gives you good skills and melee combat. As the weapon master is supposed to be unmatched at melee combat, you'd think they'd have the opportunity to learn Force Jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Pretty much in the game, or did you not notice the Force Point modifiers?
2) Why? You're Lvl 15 already by the time you can get Master Speed/Valour anyhow. What would one more level make?
1. No, it's not. I'm not talking about force point modifiers, I'm talking about stopping LS players using Lightning, and DS players using Heal
2. Then it doesn't matter if my idea is put in now does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
That would just be annoying.
If by 'annoying' you mean 'realistic', I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
See above. Anyway, that would take a lot of programming, extra dialogue, and more than one set of basic clothing - at the end of the day, is it worth it?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Play KotOR.
isn't an argument. It really annoys me when people come up with moronic comments like that. If you don't like the idea, argue against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Erm, this pretty much is so anyway...
2) NO! I do NOT want to carry on finding droids with medpacs and sith soldiers carrying a lightsabre, a Ruusan crystal and the robes of an ancient Jedi mystic. It spoils the immersion completely.
1. No, it isn't, which is the problem.
2. Huh? Please, read my ideas properly before responding. I said that I would like random loot to be relevant to the source they are coming from. This would mean lightsabres only on Jedi/Sith, only droid stuff on droids etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Modern rifles are useless compared to Star Wars rifles. Why would you want them?
Huh? I don't want modern rifles, I want sniper rifles. HK tells us they exist, and really do you think they wouldn't be in the SW universe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) I think you can pretty much do this already.
2) No, that's an extremely annoying and silly idea, particularly if you're going to have a loot randomiser.
1. Not with lightsabres you can't
2. What does the loot randomiser have to do with it?


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Old 01-04-2006, 09:14 AM   #70
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Please don't just flatly contradict me and call me a moron.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
You can. It's called the "Tab" button.


Not what I'm talking about. My idea here is to reduce micro-management of party members during battle.
Hardly necessary, unless you are chronically lazy, in which case lie in bed all day until you die of starvation - then you won't need to make effort again!

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Bad idea. Means overly-complex start-up, and it also means you can't decide to change course midway.


Huh? Did you read my idea properly? This system, for party members, would be exactly the same as the prestige class in TSL. As a certain point, you would be able to either turn them into a normal Jedi class or non-Jedi Prestige class, or in cases like Mandalore, just a non-Jedi prestige class. It would add nothing as start-up, and would give you the option to change your characters through the game, which you currently can't.
I did read it, but it wasn't very clear. Anyway, it's a useless doohickey-addon.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Perhaps....But who ever heard of a Sith Lord who was bad at using the Force?


Ever heard of a Jedi who was bad at the Force? Seriously, Darth Maul would be a Sith Marauder class, yet he's still a Sith Lord. It's like saying the available classes are 'Infantry, Driver, Pilot and Colonel'. Huh? It just doesn't make sense.
That's got a lot more to do with the Rule of Two than with rank. Since there are only two Sith, both hold the title of Sith Lord. Or it might be that Qui-Gon simply guesses he's a Sith Lord (He's not named as such by himself or by Siddy, IIRC), since knowledge of the Sith is so scarce. It's open to speculation.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Why do that, though? Surely it would make more sense to go Sentinel==>Watchman? And in any case, you get the JWM's special feats, don't you.


That's relevant how? As for the Sentinal --> Weapon Master it gives you good skills and melee combat. As the weapon master is supposed to be unmatched at melee combat, you'd think they'd have the opportunity to learn Force Jump.
Maybe so, but if the JWM is so awesome at combat he doesn't need to charge, does he?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Pretty much in the game, or did you not notice the Force Point modifiers?
2) Why? You're Lvl 15 already by the time you can get Master Speed/Valour anyhow. What would one more level make?


1. No, it's not. I'm not talking about force point modifiers, I'm talking about stopping LS players using Lightning, and DS players using Heal
2. Then it doesn't matter if my idea is put in now does it?
1) Then that's a completely crap idea. Never heard of "Electric Justice"? It also means being grey is impossible, and makes the game less fun.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
That would just be annoying.


If by 'annoying' you mean 'realistic', I agree
No, I mean irritating. You can change that anyway in the inventory screen while aboard the Ebon Hawk - it's another lazy arse's doohickey-addon of no real use.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
See above. Anyway, that would take a lot of programming, extra dialogue, and more than one set of basic clothing - at the end of the day, is it worth it?


Yes.
At the expense of a decent plot? No. If you want a game with all the doohickeys and no decent plot play JKA.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Play KotOR.


isn't an argument. It really annoys me when people come up with moronic comments like that. If you don't like the idea, argue against.
It was a suggestion, not an argument. If you can't tell the difference, don't post, and certainly don't accuse others of being morons.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Erm, this pretty much is so anyway...
2) NO! I do NOT want to carry on finding droids with medpacs and sith soldiers carrying a lightsabre, a Ruusan crystal and the robes of an ancient Jedi mystic. It spoils the immersion completely.


1. No, it isn't, which is the problem.
2. Huh? Please, read my ideas properly before responding. I said that I would like random loot to be relevant to the source they are coming from. This would mean lightsabres only on Jedi/Sith, only droid stuff on droids etc.
1) Yes it is. Can you buy heavy repeating blasters and uber-powerful upgrade crystals on Telos? Hmm....let me see...NO!
2) Don't patronise me. What you are talking about would mean individually inventorying every single placeable and character in the game - so it wouldn't be random loot anyway.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Modern rifles are useless compared to Star Wars rifles. Why would you want them?


Huh? I don't want modern rifles, I want sniper rifles. HK tells us they exist, and really do you think they wouldn't be in the SW universe?
I referred to your comment on assault rifles. Darts and grenades are supposed to be separate weapons - otherwise it would be way too easy to get a frag grenade launcher...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) I think you can pretty much do this already.
2) No, that's an extremely annoying and silly idea, particularly if you're going to have a loot randomiser.


1. Not with lightsabres you can't
2. What does the loot randomiser have to do with it?
1) Then there's a mod which fixes this, and really you could do it yourself without breaking a sweat.
2) Because you mightn't get a vibroblade until your on the last planet, meaning you can't have vibroblades through the entire game.



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Old 01-04-2006, 02:59 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Insidious
I did read it, but it wasn't very clear. Anyway, it's a useless doohickey-addon.
And your basis for this is... Would you say that the prestiege classes Sith Lord, Jedi Watchmen, etc. are "useless doohickey-addons"? For those people like Hanharr and Mandalore in TSL, wouldn't you like it if they could go from Soldier and Scout to, say "Mercernary" and "Bounty Hunter"? I don't see this as useless, and I don't really see how it would really take anything away from the game. On the contrary, it would add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Insidious
That's got a lot more to do with the Rule of Two than with rank. Since there are only two Sith, both hold the title of Sith Lord.
But this isn't about rank, it is about class. Sith Lord is the name of a rank, but it is the name of a class, too. Sith Lord (the rank) doesn't have anything to do with force ability, although Sith Lord (the class) does. As Darth Windu said, Darth Maul was probably one of those not good in force ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Insidious
At the expense of a decent plot? No. If you want a game with all the doohickeys and no decent plot play JKA.
While I don't really see the total use of this idea, I suppose their should be some clothes that are partly important storywise, like the Sith Armor and the Sand People clothing. But it doesn't necessarily have to take away from the plot; Personally I would think that they would give OE or whoever is making it a bit more time to do this "useless doohickey-addons" thought up by "lazy arses."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Insidious
It was a suggestion, not an argument
Just a little thing- why in the world did you post that "Play KotOR" when we are talking about improvements in KotOR III? No offense, of course, but it was kind of stupid comment that had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Insidious
Modern rifles are useless compared to Star Wars rifles. Why would you want them?
An Assault Rifle is just a type of weapon, it has nothing to do with slugthrower ammo. You can have futuristic Assault Rifles shooting blaster bolts.
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:14 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
  • It really annoys me when people come up with moronic comments like that. (ChAiNz.. Darth Windu posted this one!) -RH
  • No offense, of course, but it was kind of stupid comment
RobQel-Droma,

Please refrain from "flame-type" namecalling.

The "no offense" line doesn't really do the trick in this instance... it is an offense and there are other words out there that can be used.

Flaming, namecalling, etc. are against Forum Policy... I understand, and hope you weren't trying to intentionally insult Darth InSidious, just please try to be more careful next time... I'm not involved in the discussion, but even I found the comments to be offensive.

You 2 have a really good debate going on and I'd hate to have to end it prematurely. Carry on gents, and keep it civil


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Old 01-04-2006, 06:02 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
And your basis for this is... Would you say that the prestiege classes Sith Lord, Jedi Watchmen, etc. are "useless doohickey-addons"? For those people like Hanharr and Mandalore in TSL, wouldn't you like it if they could go from Soldier and Scout to, say "Mercernary" and "Bounty Hunter"? I don't see this as useless, and I don't really see how it would really take anything away from the game. On the contrary, it would add.
Only if it's not done at the expense of storyline.

Quote:
But this isn't about rank, it is about class. Sith Lord is the name of a rank, but it is the name of a class, too. Sith Lord (the rank) doesn't have anything to do with force ability, although Sith Lord (the class) does. As Darth Windu said, Darth Maul was probably one of those not good in force ability.
Um....that's pretty much what I said: Both Sith are called Sith Lord as a rank, regardless of class

Quote:
While I don't really see the total use of this idea, I suppose their should be some clothes that are partly important storywise, like the Sith Armor and the Sand People clothing. But it doesn't necessarily have to take away from the plot; Personally I would think that they would give OE or whoever is making it a bit more time to do this "useless doohickey-addons" thought up by "lazy arses."
Please don't misquote me. It just makes you look stupid
Sure, some plot important clothing, fine. But every time you wear something different, having an NPC react? Not worth the effort, IMO.

Quote:
Just a little thing- why in the world did you post that "Play KotOR" when we are talking about improvements in KotOR III? No offense, of course, but it was kind of stupid comment that had nothing to do with what we were talking about.
I was making the observation that, if Darth Windu wants to play a game where special items are not randomised, he might like to play KotOR. Furthermore, KotOR has everything to do with KotOR III – without it, III couldn’t even be a glint in the programmer’s eye.

Quote:
An Assault Rifle is just a type of weapon, it has nothing to do with slugthrower ammo. You can have futuristic Assault Rifles shooting blaster bolts.
Sure, but the way Darth Windu posted, it sounded to me more to me like he wanted some slugthrowers.



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Old 01-04-2006, 11:13 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Please don't just flatly contradict me and call me a moron.
I wouldn't contradict you if you didn't post contradictory things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Hardly necessary, unless you are chronically lazy, in which case lie in bed all day until you die of starvation - then you won't need to make effort again!
This is about micro-management during battle, thats all. Also, I do not appreciate comments such as the 'chronically lazy' one. Do not post it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
I did read it, but it wasn't very clear. Anyway, it's a useless doohickey-addon.
Then you should have asked for clarification before passing judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
That's got a lot more to do with the Rule of Two than with rank. Since there are only two Sith, both hold the title of Sith Lord. Or it might be that Qui-Gon simply guesses he's a Sith Lord (He's not named as such by himself or by Siddy, IIRC), since knowledge of the Sith is so scarce. It's open to speculation.
No, it doesn't. Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious are all Suth Lords. However, Darth Maul and Darth Vader aren't particually strong in using the Force, while Darth Sidious is extremely strong with the Force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Then that's a completely crap idea. Never heard of "Electric Justice"? It also means being grey is impossible, and makes the game less fun.
Nope, never heard of 'electric justice'. It also does not make being Grey impossible. As for less fun, I think the added realism would make it more fun, so what's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
No, I mean irritating. You can change that anyway in the inventory screen while aboard the Ebon Hawk - it's another lazy arse's doohickey-addon of no real use.
So hang on, having to determine the inventory of each party member before you leave the Hawk as opposed to not having to would make you lazy? How on Earth did you come to that conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
At the expense of a decent plot? No. If you want a game with all the doohickeys and no decent plot play JKA.
And how, exactly, would this come at the expense of a decent plot? The two have very little to do with each other. Again, cut it out with the 'go and play...' comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
It was a suggestion, not an argument. If you can't tell the difference, don't post, and certainly don't accuse others of being morons.
I didn't accuse you of anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Yes it is. Can you buy heavy repeating blasters and uber-powerful upgrade crystals on Telos? Hmm....let me see...NO!
2) Don't patronise me. What you are talking about would mean individually inventorying every single placeable and character in the game - so it wouldn't be random loot anyway.
1. Again, not what I'm talking about. Telos is different because you must visit that plent second, but the others you can do in any order.
2. No, it wouldn't. There would be 'classes' of random loot, such as 'droid', 'jedi', 'soldier' etc, so the loot would be relevant to the victim, but you wouldn't have to code for every individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
I referred to your comment on assault rifles. Darts and grenades are supposed to be separate weapons - otherwise it would be way too easy to get a frag grenade launcher...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Sure, but the way Darth Windu posted, it sounded to me more to me like he wanted some slugthrowers.
Then you should have specified that. How did you come to the conclusion that by 'Assault Rifle' I mean projectile weapons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
1) Then there's a mod which fixes this, and really you could do it yourself without breaking a sweat.
2) Because you mightn't get a vibroblade until your on the last planet, meaning you can't have vibroblades through the entire game.
1. Not good enough. A game should be made properly, and shouldn't require mods to be complete. I probably could do it myself, assuming of course that KotOR3 was already out, which it isn't.
2. Oh good grief. Vibro-blades are the most common weapon along with Blaster Rifles in KotOR, so that argument just went out the nearest airlock.


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Old 01-05-2006, 12:50 AM   #75
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DarthInSidious, you see ChAiNz post? Right above yours?

It tells Rob to not resort to flame-type name calling?

The very next post you type...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthInSidious
It just makes you look stupid
When a Moderator adresses something you also need to heed the warnings, I know you were replying to Rob, but you needed to ignore that part and move on.

@ Darth Windu, this is where the "moron" comment came in from you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
It really annoys me when people come up with moronic comments like that.
This is where Darth InSidious is getting this from. This won't be tolerated either Darth Windu.

Keep it civil everybody... Last chance for this thread, any more flame like remarks and


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Old 01-05-2006, 05:08 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
  • It really annoys me when people come up with moronic comments like that. (ChAiNz.. Darth Windu posted this one!) -RH
^^^
corrected (Thank you RedHawke)

My mistake, and my apologies to RobQel-Droma about the mis-quote..

However, as RedHawke has stated, and this goes to you too Darth Windu & DarthInsidious and everyone else, ignore a warning again, and this discussion ends.. period.


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Old 01-05-2006, 07:33 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
No, it doesn't. Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious are all Suth Lords. However, Darth Maul and Darth Vader aren't particually strong in using the Force, while Darth Sidious is extremely strong with the Force.
!!! Darth Vader was extremly strong in the Force and so was Maul I would guess, although we do not see him use it much. IMO the way the movies show it the outcome of a lightsaber fight is primarily determined by the skill and strength in the Force and not by the physical possibilities of the opponents: We e.g. see Dooku being stronger than Obi-Wan (Ep.2 the saberlok in the end), which is physically pretty impossible. (as he was in his 80s while Obi was in his 30s)
Quote:
Nope, never heard of 'electric justice'. It also does not make being Grey impossible. As for less fun, I think the added realism would make it more fun, so what's your point?
In this point I have to agree with you. The idea of "electric justice" is in my eyes just an excuse of bringing in another cool ability without having to think about consistency
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:04 AM   #78
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RedHawke, Chainz - I said the comment was moronic, not the person making it - there's a difference. I'll freely admit that I've made some pretty stupid statements at times, but does that make me stupid? No.

Chainz - as for warnings, I didn't ignore them, nor do I appreciate the inuendo that I did.


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Old 01-05-2006, 08:42 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
RedHawke, Chainz - I said the comment was moronic, not the person making it - there's a difference. I'll freely admit that I've made some pretty stupid statements at times, but does that make me stupid? No.
Darth Windu, you said it, and it was taken otherwise by the other person. That is what we have to go with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Chainz - as for warnings, I didn't ignore them, nor do I appreciate the inuendo that I did.
There was no inuendo, you need to take a different tone when a moderator warns you, you are warned. I posted my first warning on Page 1, ChAiNz posted his initial warning a few posts up, yet the problem persisted. No matter if it was you who ignored the warning or not. ChAiNz post singled out no one and covered it's bases, that is what he is supposed to do, I don't care if you feel somehow insulted by it, it is a warning to everyone... period!

I then tried to give the thread a second chance out of respect to you, but I see now that I was wrong.

You do not argue with any of us publicly when we issue a warning.

If you have a problem with this decision feel free to PM any Mod/SMod/Admin about it and plead your case.

This thread has ended.

Edit: (Clairification for Darth Windu, and anyone else interested.)

Page 1, I posted this... clearly saying to not name call anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
*Puts on new moderator cap*

Lay off the name calling ("idiots" comments) in your posts folks...
That was #1,

Page 2, ChAiNz posted his warning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
RobQel-Droma,

Please refrain from "flame-type" namecalling.

The "no offense" line doesn't really do the trick in this instance... it is an offense and there are other words out there that can be used.

Flaming, namecalling, etc. are against Forum Policy... I understand, and hope you weren't trying to intentionally insult Darth InSidious, just please try to be more careful next time... I'm not involved in the discussion, but even I found the comments to be offensive.

You 2 have a really good debate going on and I'd hate to have to end it prematurely. Carry on gents, and keep it civil
This was chance #2... as the flame type name calling continued. (Thread on last legs here.)

Then our posts #75 and #76... chance #3, this put the thread beyond it's last legs.

Instead of taking offense at a harmless warning Darth Windu, you posted something regarding them that you should have just PM'd, had you simply continued the discussion and followed the warnings, this thread would have remained open... simple as that.


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Old 01-05-2006, 08:46 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Chainz - as for warnings, I didn't ignore them, nor do I appreciate the inuendo that I did.
Sorry you're taking it personal, but my statement is regarded towards everyone as a general warning to not ignore warnings despite who they are initially given to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
However, as RedHawke has stated, and this goes to you too Darth Windu & DarthInsidious and everyone else, ignore a warning again, and this discussion ends.. period.
However, since you are part of the 3 that has been involved in this altercation, I felt the necessity of including you. People around here seem to think that if a warning isn't directly stated to them, then it's "ok" if 'they' do it...

We've had alot of people here recently disregarding multiple warnings, and have been dealt with. This will no longer be tolerated.

If you think I have misjudged, or you disagree with my decisions.. then you (and anyone else) are always free to contact (PM) myself, a Super-Mod or Admin to state your case.


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