lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Saber system suggestions
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 01-26-2006, 05:05 AM   #81
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I'm probably going to call it 0.0.6.

As for the swing speeds, I'll look into the actual animations (especially the wind ups) to see what we can do about balancing them. I'd rather not slow anything down if I don't have to since this was a HUGE complaint point about the earlier versions of the mod.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-26-2006, 06:38 AM   #82
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
I just had a few of my crazy ideas!! They can be used independently of eachother if only one of thems good too.

1. Targeting your enemy prevents or decreases FP drain while attacking

2. Targeting your enemy while walking increases attack power DP hit wise (or maybe its normal and not targeting is less)

3. In order for your dodge to activate when needed, you have to be Targeting your enemy (however, back kills will only kill if the attacker is walking)

4. In order to do a successful parry, you also have to be targeting your enemy (however; pressing the right parry direction will still prevent DP loss if your not targeting them).

Yep, that alot of targeting! But it might add some more depth, skill, and strategy to this saber system.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 01-26-2006 at 06:55 AM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-26-2006, 03:44 PM   #83
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I remember this whole arguement coming up during the Promod era.

Basically, I don't beleive that a person's ability to aim or more realistically, be a LPB, should be a major contributing factor in their game performance. However, you do bring up a good point that certain activities require more effort based on weither or not you're able to see the other guy.

As such, I'd probably be willing to try something like you're suggestion but be based on much more broad fields of vision requirements. IE, something like DP costs go up if you're not able to see your oppenent while dodging.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-26-2006, 06:22 PM   #84
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
I should be clear that I am not trying to turn this system into promod bya any means. I've read about it, but it basically died before I ever started playing JK at all.

While I dont know much about the old debates on this topic, I don't see why targeting benefits would be such an issue. This is still a first/third person game and most people who play have play first person shooters before where aiming is everything. Also, If we make it so it can only have any effect when the attacker or the parrier is walking, it really wouldn't be that hard I think. Although this would give first person view a bigger advantage.

Anyway...

Quote:
As such, I'd probably be willing to try something like you're suggestion but be based on much more broad fields of vision requirements. IE, something like DP costs go up if you're not able to see your oppenent while dodging.
Yeah that would be cool and more realistic.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 03:28 AM   #85
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
I have two questions and a idea.
Questions:

1. Since Enhanced didn't come out today, are you waiting a week so you have more time to do stuff to it or is it going to be released like tomarrow or something (or are you just to busy to worry about it at the moment which is understandable).

2. Is it possible to make the bounding box bigger to where the block is and maybe make the block activation area even further out, and if so, what problems might arise from this. The only reason I what to know this and whether its a good idea is because it might help stop the sabers from going through people when they are not suppose to. I was watching espisode III last night and I noticed they seem to always go back and forth between attacking and blocking. If this is possible, if we put a slight delay on a blocked followup attack for the person who just had their attack blocked (but nearly as much as a parry though) it might lead to movie like back and forth attacking and blocking by both saberists. A bigger block detention range might also help to determine who swung first. There should be no blocking detention from behind obviously (although having a manual back blocking function might be cool, but you would need a new animation for it)

Idea:

Quote:
4. In order to do a successful parry, you also have to be targeting your enemy (however; pressing the right parry direction will still prevent DP loss if your not targeting them).
Yeah ok I've already posted this one, but I think its worthy of consideration on its own. I can see why you didn't like the other ones, but this would not be too hard to do with walking attackers and it would distinguish a no DP costing block to a parry. Making the parrying a little harder to do might be an interesting change as well.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 05:17 AM   #86
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I have no idea when the next version of Enhanced will be posted. I still need to finish the viewlock revision but I just haven't had the time.

As for the blocking range, I can expand it but we have to be very careful since too large of a block area would result in players being unfairly interrupted into a block when it wouldn't be approprate. From what I can tell, the problem seems to be the bloody server frame rate rather than a weakness/delay in the hit detection.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 07:51 AM   #87
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Well, I got the viewlock working. I'm not sure it's working perfectly yet, but it does seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. Basically, it prevent players from moving or yawing their blades thru other player's sabers. It also adds a tactile "impact" to saber impacts.

It's technically been in the system for sometime now, however, I could never get it to work good in my earlier attempts so it wasn't noticable until now.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 04:27 PM   #88
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Well, I got the viewlock working. I'm not sure it's working perfectly yet, but it does seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. Basically, it prevent players from moving or yawing their blades thru other player's sabers. It also adds a tactile "impact" to saber impacts.

Cool! That should help alot. Hopefully people will like it. I look forward to trying it out.

Quote:
As for the blocking range, I can expand it but we have to be very careful since too large of a block area would result in players being unfairly interrupted into a block when it wouldn't be approprate. From what I can tell, the problem seems to be the bloody server frame rate rather than a weakness/delay in the hit detection.
I might be an interesting experiment. You might want to test it out before you attempt a release of it though. I can see why this would be a risk, so if you decide to do it, just use your best judgement.

Btw, what country/state do you live in? You seem to anwser in the middle of the night where I'm at! LOL


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 05:31 PM   #89
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I'm in the Pacific time zone. Idaho to be more specific.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 11:04 PM   #90
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Wow you work late! I'm in Colorado.

Anyways, I just thought of an interesting suggestion that might help solve the "sabers still going through people" problem during the back and forth action:

While walking, the saber swing stops a little more that half way between pointing to the side at a 90 degree angle and pointing directly at the opponent (maybe around 160 degrees or so). In order to do a full swing, you would have to be running (thus still making them useful against gunners or when a person is stunned). This may mean that you might have to make the bounding box a little bigger to still allow for collisons though. Doing a full swing against a person might have to have some kind of a penalty if the opponent is not stunned, but I'm not sure what yet.

Its an idea, but I haven't thought it out too well yet so let me know if you see any problems with it.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2006, 11:22 PM   #91
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I'm not sure that's realistic or really doable since the animations are only set up for full swings.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2006, 02:15 PM   #92
Tokakeke
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I'm in the Pacific time zone. Idaho to be more specific.
Wow, where in Idaho? I live in Spokane (near the Wash-Idaho border)
Tokakeke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2006, 05:12 PM   #93
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Spokane is a nice town. I stayed there once for a day several years ago at a hotel in the down town area and played Lasertag at a really hightech (well, more than normal) laser tag place. Than it was on to Seattle. I hope the Sea Hawks destory the Steelers after what they did to us! LOL!

Quote:
I'm not sure that's realistic or really doable since the animations are only set up for full swings.
Yeah. Oh well, back to the drawing board. I do still kind of like the idea about rising the bounding box a bit and the block detection as an experiement. Even if it does make people switch to block unintentionally at a realy close range, it might help them to learn to keep their distance. Of course I'm not sure how this would effect the faster saber styles with shorter range. They may have to be confincated for if it becomes a problem for them.

I also might suggest (if it hasn't already been done) that you make kicking do no DP damage until they are at 50% DP because there should be no avantage to it aside from being able to swing at people while they are on the ground. If kicking still does a ton of DP damage, I fear this will lead to too much kicking and not enough back and forth action with the sabers.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 01-29-2006 at 05:50 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2006, 08:28 PM   #94
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Well, I'll play around with the saber block protection radius when I install Keshire's block animations.

As for kicking, I'm not sure if there is a large DP cost for dodging it. But you're right, it needs to be balanced properly. I think the balance is supposed to be that you can't saber block while in a kick.

FYI, I'm sick at the moment so I'm not sure how much work I'll get done for a while.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2006, 08:46 PM   #95
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
As for kicking, I'm not sure if there is a large DP cost for dodging it. But you're right, it needs to be balanced properly. I think the balance is supposed to be that you can't saber block while in a kick.

FYI, I'm sick at the moment so I'm not sure how much work I'll get done for a while.
We'll have to test that the next time we're both online. If it does do a lot of DP damage to kick a over 50 DP stun, than it might have to change for balance sake. At the moment, it is pretty easy to kick one of those.

Anyways, sorry to hear about your sickness. I won't bug you for a while so you can get well. I'll add you to my prayer list or something. Drink lots of tea if your sickness permits it.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2006, 09:24 PM   #96
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
FYI, kicks do FP damage, not DP, to stunned players.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-30-2006, 02:32 AM   #97
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
FP?! Hmmm, that might not be as much of a problem then. I'll have to think about it from that perspective then and analyze any potential problems with that if their are any (which I can't think of any at the moment). Anyways, good luck getting unsick.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-30-2006, 09:22 AM   #98
Vruki Salet
Junior Member
 
Vruki Salet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere else entirely
Posts: 443
Yeah Razor. Take it easy & get well.
Vruki Salet is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-01-2006, 11:55 PM   #99
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Hey Razor, I'm not sure how much better you're feeling, but I thought I'd throw down a relatively uncomplex idea before I forget it:

While two people are swinging, if one of them gets hit first and they press the correct parry direction as the saber hits them or enters their block detection range, the person blocking will not lose DP but they will not parry it. Parrying will only happen if the person doing the parrying was not swinging when he got hit.

I figure that this might help make two people swinging at each other use strategy in their movement rather than just spamming with their swinging.

That's it for now. Hope your feeling better and thanks for adding that very useful server tracker thing.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 03:16 AM   #100
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Nope, still under the weather. I've been told that I might be this way until the end of the week.

As for attack-on-attack impacts, there's no DP cost as is. However, it does mean that the players have to successfully touch their sabers together.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 03:38 AM   #101
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Nope, still under the weather. I've been told that I might be this way until the end of the week.

As for attack-on-attack impacts, there's no DP cost as is. However, it does mean that the players have to successfully touch their sabers together.
Aww man. Poor Razor. You don't have the bird flu or something do you?! That would really suck. Anyway, good luck with getting well. I hope it has at least lightened up a bit.

As far as my idea is concern, I actually meant when you get hit first while swinging and parry your opponent. I noticed that I've been able to do this with the Tabbots and they seemed to get completely parried. I don't know, maybe its fine the way it is. I'll keep thinking about some logical possibilities.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 04:49 AM   #102
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
It's just the flu.

Well, that's probably occuring since there are slight mishap possibilities even in attack-on-attack impacts. I'd rather not add a directional block to that sort of situation since it would make pure blocking seem pretty pointless or that least that's what I'd be concerned about.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 04:51 PM   #103
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
It's just the flu.

Well, that's probably occuring since there are slight mishap possibilities even in attack-on-attack impacts. I'd rather not add a directional block to that sort of situation since it would make pure blocking seem pretty pointless or that least that's what I'd be concerned about.
I'm glad its nothing too serious. Anyway...

I see your concern, however the way I had envisioned this is that autoblocking would still happen regardless of whether or not you were pushing the proper parry direction. Getting hit first in an attack on attack situation would still drain your DP if you weren't pressing the proper parry direction, but pressing the proper parry direction in this situation would cause you no DP loss. The trade off is that: if you were attacking when you got hit first adn you press the proper parry direction, your opponent won't get parried. You have to not be attacking in order to actually parry an opponent.

Although I'm still not sure if this is a good idea. While it might add some strategy and technique to full on attacking, it might also change the combat a little too much in favor of swinging, so I'm not sure myself. It might be an interesting experiement though. Anyways, it's something to think about. I'm sure there would be issues with it that I haven't thought of yet.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 06:03 PM   #104
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
So, basically, you're just suggesting that a player shouldn't be able to parry if they're forced into a block while attacking, right?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2006, 06:43 PM   #105
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
So, basically, you're just suggesting that a player shouldn't be able to parry if they're forced into a block while attacking, right?
Basically yes, but if they do press the right parry direction at such a time, they will lose no DP. This just prevents them from stunning their opponent with a parry in such a situation. It turns what would normally be a parry into a swingblock that costs no DP.

Like I said before, I'm still not sure if this is a good idea or not.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-04-2006, 11:15 PM   #106
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Just a couple things:

1. I was wondering if it would be possible to have the TABbots still gain a little FP while running because they always seem to run out of steam just when our duals are getting good. Although I'm not sure if this problem will get fixed by something you already have planned for the next release.

2. I had an idea about having it so that you gain 50 FP and to bars of DP when ever you kill somebody. This might help make fighting two people a little easier and prevent anyone from getting slaughtered by someone else right after they just barely defeat someone else. Good idea?

3. Any word on the next realise of Enhanced and what it will have thats new? including bug fixes and other stuff? And hows your health btw?


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-05-2006, 02:34 AM   #107
Lathain Valtiel
Ex-Angel
 
Lathain Valtiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 929
LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
I should be clear that I am not trying to turn this system into promod bya any means. I've read about it, but it basically died before I ever started playing JK at all.
It's a shame actually, as you missed some of the greatest straight up FFAs in Jedi Outcast or Academy. For almost every single night of its lifetime, ArtifeX's server was packed by both Jedi and gun-using badasses. That and firing rockets in close quarters was actually DANGEROUS to whoever fired it... especially if said rocket was Level 4. It also had balanced jetpacks that put those in Academy to SHAME.

The saber fights were beyond excellent, and for once Lightside wasn't a horrific handicap in 1v1 duel since Heal was buffed a bit and Drain was slightly less badass.


Kurgan's Meatgrinder (JA Server: 72.5.248.212:29070)

Player tested, Valtiel approved.

Valtiel approved downloads for Meatgrinder: http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/downloads.shtml
Lathain Valtiel is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-05-2006, 05:13 AM   #108
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
1. I was wondering if it would be possible to have the TABbots still gain a little FP while running because they always seem to run out of steam just when our duals are getting good.
I'm not sure about this one. The 1st priority with the bots is that they don't have an unfair advantage over the human players. We'll just have to live with it until I can improve the bots some more.
Quote:
2. I had an idea about having it so that you gain 50 FP and to bars of DP when ever you kill somebody.
I'd really prefer not to award players in such a way since that would be very unrealistic. However, maybe it would be wise if we just reduced the total amount of DP a player has since it seems to me that DP deaths are pretty rare at the moment.
Quote:
3. Any word on the next realise of Enhanced and what it will have thats new? including bug fixes and other stuff? And hows your health btw?
I'm feeling better but I do have to get caught up on my school work. Hopefully I'll be able to release something so. I just finished a Basic release today so that should indicate good progress.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-05-2006, 06:53 AM   #109
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
The saber fights were beyond excellent, and for once Lightside wasn't a horrific handicap in 1v1 duel since Heal was buffed a bit and Drain was slightly less badass.
Yeah, I've heard alot about how good it was. I really wish I was around to ry it out at it's prime.


Quote:
I'd really prefer not to award players in such a way since that would be very unrealistic. However, maybe it would be wise if we just reduced the total amount of DP a player has since it seems to me that DP deaths are pretty rare at the moment.
Probably a good idea.

Along those lines I do still think that the saberstyles should do slightly different DP damages, maybe like in my old idea about the styles. I also think that something needs to be done with the special moves such as either making them all cause stuns or making some of them instant kill moves that cost a TON of FP and leave the attacker vulnerable. Anything to make them have a use in this system. It might be good to make them cause stuns for the next release because It would probably be easy to do (I think) and it could be a temporary edition to the system if you don't like it. It might add some wholeness and some eye candy to the system too. Because they cost FP, they probably wouldn't be overused either.

Quote:
I'm feeling better but I do have to get caught up on my school work. Hopefully I'll be able to release something so. I just finished a Basic release today so that should indicate good progress.
Good to hear youre feeling better. Good job on making a new basic (even though I still refuse to play it because of the base saber combat! LOL ) I hope you don't have too much school work to catch up on.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by razorace; 02-06-2006 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Fixed the broken quote tags
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-06-2006, 01:55 PM   #110
The Antilles
Rookie
 
The Antilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 23
for some reason my quote is not working so "Along those lines I do still think that the saberstyles should do slightly different DP damages, maybe like in my old idea about the styles. I also think that something needs to be done with the special moves such as either making them all cause stuns or making some of them instant kill moves that cost a TON of FP and leave the attacker vulnerable. Anything to make them have a use in this system. It might be good to make them cause stuns for the next release because It would probably be easy to do (I think) and it could be a temporary edition to the system if you don't like it. It might add some wholeness and some eye candy to the system too. Because they cost FP, they probably wouldn't be overused either"

I fully Agree with this idea. Also thanks for the basic update, And I'm glad your over the flu. So get your school work done slaker!!!!!


I'm here to kick butt, and chew bubble gum..... and I'm all out of bubble gum
The Antilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-06-2006, 06:23 PM   #111
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll work on my school work.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-06-2006, 10:28 PM   #112
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Antilles
I fully Agree with this idea. Also thanks for the basic update, And I'm glad your over the flu. So get your school work done slaker!!!!!
I'm glad you like this idea. Although I did just notice that special moves only use 4 FP. This might need to be increased a bit (maybe 8-10 FP) to make them less used or spammed. It might also be cool to have the special moves (including the rollstab) kill the opponent when they get Long stunned at below 50 DP but only if they hit perfectly or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorace
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll work on my school work
Yeah, me too! I look forward to trying out Enhanced 0.0.6...... when class is over!


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 03:22 AM   #113
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Great improvements on this version of enhanced. I especially like the new stances and the new walking. Also great work on the saberthrow and not penalizing blocking with FP pauses.

There is still one thing that desperately needs fixing though more than anything. That is: Something has to be done about blue style!! I fought Plo-koon again (the freak Tabbot that uses Blue) and he still tore me to streads until I started swing spamming him with blue aswell. I decided to watch my DP meter as I fought him strictly defensively and even when I moved perfectly into his swing, I still lost nearly 1 and 1/2 full bars of DP at least 2/3 of the time and only parried him about 1/6 of the time! Any bot I swing spammed with blue no matter what style I were using (except blue) I tore to shreads very quickly as well.

I'm not sure why this happening but the blue style strikes do seem to spend longer inside the opponents defenses longer then any other style. If you would like to get together an test this out again, let me know here or on the scheduling thread.

Btw, I did just have an interesting Idea for saber style diversity. This idea comes from when I use to fight in Tae Know Do tournaments years ago and shorter opponents use to get really close to me to make me unable to kick them. The idea is this:

Basically, all styles have "sweet spot" ranges to them. Too close will do no damage and too far will do less damage. The styles would differ something like this:

Tavion and blue would have a very small sweet spot in the middle of their saber and do very little damage further up.

Yellow would have a medium size sweet spot in the middle and do marginal damage further up.

Desann have a large sweet spot in the middle and do marginal damage further up.

Red Would do full damage from the middle of the saber to the tip.

I think this idea would help players not to get too close to eachother and allow for some strategy in positioning.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-08-2006 at 03:38 AM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 03:57 AM   #114
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can impliment the range idea accurately enough to make it fair/fun for the players.

As for blue, I'll double-check blue's animation speed compared to the other styles.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 05:05 AM   #115
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can impliment the range idea accurately enough to make it fair/fun for the players.
Hmmm, that's a good point. Because players are always moving it might end up being more frustrating than anything if the "sweet spot" is to small or too particular. Maybe if we combined a similar but larger and less particular version of this idea with the a style varying DP damage idea maybe like one of the ones I written before, it might balance itself out without being frustrating. I still especially like the idea of no damage being done at too close of a range and making the faster styles require more acquiracy somehow.

As far as blue style is concerned, if worse comes to worse and you can't figure out a way to balance it through the animations to where it is more parryable, I think Vruki's old idea about penalizing several swings in a row with a ton of FP might help resolve this issue a bit.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 05:08 AM   #116
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Well, I looked into it a bit and it looks like the actual attack animations are a bit faster than the yellow style. I slowed just the attack animation speed by 20% and that appears to have helped the problem.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 05:36 AM   #117
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Well, I looked into it a bit and it looks like the actual attack animations are a bit faster than the yellow style. I slowed just the attack animation speed by 20% and that appears to have helped the problem.
Great! I don't suppose you could make a patch or something like that for 0.0.6 could you? It might be nice to destroy that problem while this version is still new so people aren't wondering why they keep killing everything with blue. Although I haven't seen too many problems when using tavions style, it might be a good idea to check that one too.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2006, 04:53 PM   #118
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
mmm, it would be too much of a hassle to do. It will just be in the next version.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2006, 02:36 AM   #119
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
I've been brainstorming several very large ideas for the sabersystem that I think would make it reach its greatest potential as a truly superior sabersystem to anything available.

One of the biggest strengths of the base sabersystem was its sheer variety of ways to go about attacking and this is what is currently lacking in this system. Eventhough the back and forth action awsome in this system, it still has its limits because you learn to know what to expect. If we can come up with more variety and unique characteristics to all the styles. I have come up with a possible plan of how to do this.

First off, before reading about the change to the individual styles, a few things need to be changed in order to make these ideas balanced:

1. Parrying for most styles costs a little DP, like it did in 0.0.4. Perfect blocking (that costs no FP or DP) by DP costing parrying styles can be done by faking into the opponents on coming saber as it can right now.

2.The special moves cause regular stuns and have the following characteristics: Roll stab and Blue uppercut do 25% DP damage and cost 10 FP, Yellow overheadslash does 50% DP and costs 20 FP, Red leap slash does 100% DP damage causing death in most cases and costs 30-40 FP (lets face it, only noobs will be hit by this for the most part). However, special attacks will only do half their normal damage if they hit someone who is in a 50+ DP stun.

3. Each additional chained slash will cost 10 FP after 2 slashes for tavion and blue and 3 for yellow and red (I'll esplain desann's change in the next section)

4. Hits to the back 180 degrees of an opponent will cause 50% DP damage.


Ok, Now for the individual characteristics of the styles:

Tavion: The fastest style which will do the weakest DP damage by default, but will do Yellows amount of damage if the opponent is targeted when hit. Roll stab will do 50% Dp damage with this style as well. These changes are to make this the perfect fencer's style and get the old promod fans a style of their own (they will love you for it!!! LOL).

Blue: Does more DP damage than not targeting with tavion but less damage than yellow. This style, however, will have its FP jumping drain reduced by 75% or more, thus making it like yoda's style. Back hitting is the key to this style, which will be hard to do against bots sadly.

Yellow: Moderate DP damage given. No FP penalties for preforming fakes and no DP penalties for parrying. Obiwan like Balance is the key to this style

Desann: Does the same damage as yellow, but is endlessly chainable in swings without the large FP costs of the other styles. Swings still cost 1 FP though. Agression is the key to both offense and defense in this style

Red: Highest DP damage and no penalties for parrying. The slowest but most powerful Anakin/Sidious like style.

I'm still not sure about Staff and Dual yet other than staff being the best defensive wise and duel the best offensive wise.

Well there it is, my most complex but hopefully balanced and benefitial idea set yet. If anything, I hope it will give you an idea of what direction to take this system next.

Question: Did you ever find out if turning swings can be eliminated or not. I ask this because I'm pretty sure my old more powerful but more risky turn swing idea will only work with our current system if a button is pressed to activate them, otherwise people will be doing them by accident too often.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-09-2006 at 03:37 AM. Reason: Forgot an important balancing factor
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2006, 04:13 AM   #120
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I looked into the transitions stuff and there simply aren't the animations nessicary to pull out the spin moves without seriously hampering the moves that a player can make.

Thank you for making an attempt at quantifying the differences between the styles. Hopefully this will finally get the ball rolling. However, I do have some issues with some of your suggestions.

1. I don't think a swing chaining limit is nessicary since players can already reverse the tables pretty easily by simply parrying one of the attacks. Adding in a increasing FP drain would only drive newbies away from the game.

2. The FP jump reduction for Blue is an interesting idea, but not a realistic one. I don't want to grant magical abilities based on whatever style the player is using. Style differences really need to just be saber combat related and hopefully something that make logical sense.

For example, I think any move in any stance where the player is holding the saber with one hand should have a very large disarm penalty since two handed grips are much better than one handed ones. Ideally this penalty would be carefully tuned to the individual animations but I might just have it be based on style for starters.

3. I'm still musing about the special moves. Your suggestions are good ones, but I'm really worried that the special moves would be totally spammable. The best that I can come up with so far is that a blocked special would automatically result in a stun. Maybe specials should just cause different mishaps in the defender based on their FP/DP status. For example,

Blue Lunge:
A blue lunge is seen in the movies to be a disarming move. It should cost double DP to saber block and cost 3 FP to the attacker. If the defender is hit while stunned, it costs double the normal Body Dodge cost. If the player doesn't have the DP or if they're fatigued, the player automatically loses their saber hand and dies.

4. All the saber damage is lethal. As such, we can't really tweak saber damage levels since they are all lethal to start with.

Anyway, I'm running out of musing steam and I have some homework so I'll call it quits for now. Thanks for the stimulating debate.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > Saber system suggestions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:40 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.