lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Saber system suggestions
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 02-14-2006, 03:22 AM   #161
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
You lost me there. So basically, the idea is that attackers would drain more DP by hitting the defender's saber vs their body? Would this be just during a knockaway animation that a player plays when they parry a blow?
Ok, I used TOO many run on sentences there! LOL.

I'm taking about after an attacker is parried at DP > 50, he enters that slow drawback animation, right? Well, if the defender who just parried the attacker attacks (becoming the new attacker) and hits the slowly drawing back saber of the former attacker (now the new defender) who is now parried, the parried defender will lose more DP.

If the defender was able to press the right parry direction as the attacker hit their parried saber, they will still lose some DP. If they don't press the right parry direction in that situation, they will lose more DP and maybe some FP as well (but that's your call). I also listed some other possibilities above.

This DP loss should only be the case when you hit a parried saber though.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 03:30 AM   #162
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
It's a good idea, but I wouldn't make it too much of a DP drain. I'd probably make it a comboed FP/DP drain to make it an additional option other than attacking their body (drain DP) or kicking them (drain FP).


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 03:49 AM   #163
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Fair enough, however, I do still think they should still lose some Dp or DP/FP even if they do parry it correctly. I think that the more the players can go for the sabers in attacking parries, the more realistic it will look.

I'm sure youre worried that too much DP or FP loss will be too much for this move, but after practicing do this for a while, it is almost hard enough to warrant a big loss if they don't parry it right because the saber is often very hard to hit in the drawback. This will especially be the case when human players no to avoid the other saber when they get parried.

It may have to work a it differently for staff and dual though since there is more serface area to hit. Maybe having no extra DP loss could be one of the benefits of the staffs extra defensive abilities and being easy to hit would be one of the downfall of Dual's heavy attacking ability.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 04:28 AM   #164
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
You can't parried while stunned so it's an all or nothing idea.

It just occurred to me that there's currently no behavior specified for getting hit on the saber while in a bounce move. It seems to me that a player that directly hits a bounced saber should cause a mishap roll for the defender. That way players have a possible way to cause actual stuns/disarms/etc while at high FP/DP levels. What do you guys think?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 04:39 AM   #165
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
You can't parried while stunned so it's an all or nothing idea.
Oh, ok. I was worried about that, but its still ok with a consistant damage. Just use your best judgement as to how much extra it should be by hitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
It just occurred to me that there's currently no behavior specified for getting hit on the saber while in a bounce move. It seems to me that a player that directly hits a bounced saber should cause a mishap roll for the defender. That way players have a possible way to cause actual stuns/disarms/etc while at high FP/DP levels. What do you guys think?
A bounced saber? Not sure what situation youre refering to. If you refering to hitting a saber on it's way back to ready position after bouncing off an opponent who just blocked, how would the opponent hit that returning saber in time?

If youre referring to getting hit while performing an attack button tap fake, have I'll have to think about that one because I like to use that as to block sabers sometimes to trip out my opponent! lol.

I'll see youre response tomarrow. Goodnight.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-14-2006 at 07:58 AM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 12:11 PM   #166
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I'm referring to when a player attacks a player's saber when they're in the slow bounce caused by avoiding a stun or knockdown with high DP/FP. I'm thinking that maybe it should cause the stun/knockdown that was avoided. That way players can still cause stuns/knockdowns at high DP/FP but only with a decent amount of skill.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 03:54 PM   #167
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I'm referring to when a player attacks a player's saber when they're in the slow bounce caused by avoiding a stun or knockdown with high DP/FP. I'm thinking that maybe it should cause the stun/knockdown that was avoided. That way players can still cause stuns/knockdowns at high DP/FP but only with a decent amount of skill.
So basically you mean that you think my idea should cause stuns and knockdowns rather than just more DP/FP loss. Maybe, but I'm not sure I would prefer it over just causing of it just causing more DP/FP loss, I'll have to think about that some more.

How about a compromise. How about if they hit it with the same style the parried opponent is using or weaker, it does more DP/FP damage; if they hit it with a style one style stronger, it knocks them over; if they hit with a style two styles stronger, it disarms them; and if they hit it with a style 3 or more stronger, it causes a big stun.

Also, I'm wondering if we should make the powerfake do less damage than it normally does when attacking a parried person in order to promote using it more offensively and not give big, easy heavy damage to parried people that costs low FP for the attacker. The exception could be when a power fake hits the parried persons saber and it could even up the power effect of the style being used (that is if you decide to go with my last suggestion).


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-14-2006 at 06:04 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 07:21 PM   #168
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
1. Actually no, I was referring to attackin the saber while a player is in a slow bounce. Your idea sounded like it involved attacking the saber while the player is in a stun.

2. Bear in mind that there is no such thing as a "stronger" style in OJP Enhanced. I'm dead against rock-paper-scissors game mechanics. Also, when I add the keshire block animations back in, it's probably going to dramatically increase the number of times there are true saber-on-saber blocks vs the "fake" bounding box/body blocks. As such, I don't think we should do anything that could depend on weither or not the player hits the actual saber blade during a block.

3. Parried attack fakes don't currently cost the defender any DP, but it also doesn't parry the attacker. I think that's a fair trade off at the moment since attack fakes are pretty powerful as is.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 10:33 PM   #169
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Arrgh, I'm so confused! So there's a slow bounce that takes place other than when you parry someone who has DP > 50? This is the slow-bounce "stun" I've been referring to this whole time with this "hit the saber idea, not the slow, completely exposing stun that occurs after the parried person has DP < 50.

So if we were on the same page here as far as what we both we're talking in terms of the slow bounce "stuns," then you're saying that there is another circumstance in which slow bounces occur other than getting parried when you have DP > 50? If so, when? I don't remember ever seening it happen. And if it does happen, then I'll have to try it and see if your ideas are balanced.

If we werent on the same page as far as what we both were talking about, than you might want to re-read my original suggestions on it and see why I suggest doing it the way I have.

Btw, whole idea about stronger styles doing different causing different mishaps maybe rock-paper-scissors like in a sense, but it is balanced because the slower styles will will have a harder time hitting the slow drawback stun (DP > 50). If the style the parried defender is using is weaker and faster than the attackers style, the defender will drawback a bit faster and the attacker will swing slow, thus making it harder for the attacker to actually hit the defender saber as it slowly draws back

An alternative to the stronger styles cause different mishaps idea could be the angle at which you hit the parried defenders saber on the drawback, For example: if you hit it at an almost perfect perpendicular angle, it causes a disarm. This look really cool when I did something similar to it today while test this idea because it looked like he was suppose to get disarmed at that angle anyway. Of course I have the feeling that causing different mishaps based on the angle you hit at can't really be done anyway.


Oh, and btw, if you want to lose all hope in humanity and "hooked on the feeling" that we are all doomed, go here http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=Gi2CfuqcUGE


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-14-2006 at 10:55 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-14-2006, 11:04 PM   #170
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
1. right. The slow bounce is the slow recoil move that happens at 50+ DP. I guess I wasn't understanding what you meant by stun. I thought you meant of the stumbling backwards knocked animations that occur < 50 DP. So, basically, I think we're talking about the same thing at the same time.

2. There are two types of bounces. The slow bounce occurs whenever the player "avoids" a mishap by having enough DP/FP. The other type of bouncing is the regular bounces that occur whenever the saber hits something that can take damage. Normal bouncing isn't a penalty so much as the normal bounce/recoil from a saber impact.

3. As I stated earlier, it might be better to have it cause a "true" mishap vs just costing more DP/FP. That way there will be some mechanic (even if it's hard to do) to cause true mishaps at high DP/FP levels. Hopefully this would add some flavor to the game.

4. I just don't like the idea of styles being inherently "better". I like the idea of pros/cons, but I don't think any style should be a "set" counter-balance to another. My feeling is that style should be a matter of choice rather than need. As such, a player should be able to happily play while just using a single style the entire time.

Speaking of style balancing, I could use some feedback about the various single saber styles and how they should be balanced. My creative juices just aren't sparking for the single sabers. I've already finished the dual/double saber balancing and I'm pretty happy with the results. I was letting the bots just go at it for a while and the dual/double sabers don't seem to have the inherent advantage that they used to. Woot!

5. As for doing something angle based, I'm not sure how the math would work for something like that. Raven tried something similar for some of their code but it's really complicated and I'm not sure I could do any better than they did on that sort of thing.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 12:52 AM   #171
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
3. As I stated earlier, it might be better to have it cause a "true" mishap vs just costing more DP/FP. That way there will be some mechanic (even if it's hard to do) to cause true mishaps at high DP/FP levels. Hopefully this would add some flavor to the game.
The thing I'm worried about is that it would end up being not too hard for a vet to hit the opponents saber in this situation. I myself have been getting very good at hitting the tabbot's saber in this situation all ready. For example: if a person is using red and gets slowbounce parried by a person using yellow, the guy using red will slow bounce very slowly and easily get hit by the person using red. same would go for yellow vs tavions. Are you starting to see why I suggested that stronger styles only cause the mishaps?

Quote:
4. I just don't like the idea of styles being inherently "better". I like the idea of pros/cons, but I don't think any style should be a "set" counter-balance to another. My feeling is that style should be a matter of choice rather than need. As such, a player should be able to happily play while just using a single style the entire time.
The pro of stronger styles is that they cause mishaps in this situation and the con is that they are much more easily hit by a faster, but weaker style when they get slowbounce parried. I also think that having still having DP/FP drain happen for hitting a slow bounce with the same or weaker/faster style should be this way because it would keep this back and forth action going strong when players get good at hitting eachothers sabers (and like I said, its really not that hard with styles of the same speed or faster). If it turns out that it is still too easy to hit the opponents slowbouncing saber with a style that is only one style slower/stronger we could also make it two styles stronger to cause a mishap.

Quote:
Speaking of style balancing, I could use some feedback about the various single saber styles and how they should be balanced. My creative juices just aren't sparking for the single sabers. I've already finished the dual/double saber balancing and I'm pretty happy with the results. I was letting the bots just go at it for a while and the dual/double sabers don't seem to have the inherent advantage that they used to. Woot!
Hmmm, well I've suggested making the DP damages based off the speed of the style, I.E. tavion the fastest and weakest, and red the slowest and strongest. I think as far as how to implement the DP damage differences, I think that the differing damages should be as little as possible without making the differences insignificant. Example: tavion does 1, blue 1.5, yellow 2, desann 2.5, and red 3. This still might be too much, but use your best judgement.

As for specials in these styles, you already mentioned that you are implementing the blue lunge for all the styles (which I would also suggest finding alternate animations for each, like tavions becomes stab, desanns becomes the staff spinning special, etc.) I would also suggest either having all these styles have two specials including the lunge (or substitute animation) and something else (that you have unimplemented like that spinning DFA you thought about adding to desanns style) or maybe just making the a style that one has one special be given a more powerful move (like making blue lunge stronger than other and tavions roll stab stronger) if you would like to make new specials for a style that only has one, you could also look around for new animations and see if you can just get some of the animaitons for the special moves of JA+ 2.4 or the chaos mod......or ask Keshire if he has any new ones.

I hope that helps. It doesn't I can keep thinking about it.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 01:24 AM   #172
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
The thing I'm worried about is that it would end up being not too hard for a vet to hit the opponents saber in this situation. I myself have been getting very good at hitting the tabbot's saber in this situation all ready. For example: if a person is using red and gets slowbounce parried by a person using yellow, the guy using red will slow bounce very slowly and easily get hit by the person using red. same would go for yellow vs tavions. Are you starting to see why I suggested that stronger styles only cause the mishaps?
Right now the bounce animation speeds/lengths are pretty much the same so I don't think there's a huge difference between the styles. I conceed that it might be too easy to get the bounced saber during a slow bounce but since getting into a stun/knockdown isn't that bad of a situation I think it would work out. How about we possibly try it and see what happens?

Quote:
As for specials in these styles, you already mentioned that you are implementing the blue lunge for all the styles (which I would also suggest finding alternate animations for each, like tavions becomes stab, desanns becomes the staff spinning special, etc.) I would also suggest either having all these styles have two specials including the lunge (or substitute animation) and something else (that you have unimplemented like that spinning DFA you thought about adding to desanns style) or maybe just making the a style that one has one special be given a more powerful move (like making blue lunge stronger than other and tavions roll stab stronger) if you would like to make new specials for a style that only has one, you could also look around for new animations and see if you can just get some of the animaitons for the special moves of JA+ 2.4 or the chaos mod......or ask Keshire if he has any new ones.
Right now all singles have the lunge and the overhead flip. The flip currently has two variations, a flip stab for the "lighter" styles and a overhead slash for the "heavier" styles. As for the DFA, red is currently the only style that does it but I plan to expand it to include purple (desann) with the spinning DFA move and possibly yellow.

In addition, I reworked things so that DFAs and overhead flips can be done with the same stance. DFAs can now be done in mid-air and now require a top swing windup before they will work. But you do have to be moving at run speed for it to work.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 01:26 AM   #173
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Hmmm, well I've suggested making the DP damages based off the speed of the style, I.E. tavion the fastest and weakest, and red the slowest and strongest. I think as far as how to implement the DP damage differences, I think that the differing damages should be as little as possible without making the differences insignificant. Example: tavion does 1, blue 1.5, yellow 2, desann 2.5, and red 3. This still might be too much, but use your best judgement.
Actually I've been trying to make the styles all move at about the same speed. Unfortunately, the swing speeds are a bit deceptive since the windup speeds vary quite a bit.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 02:21 AM   #174
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Right now the bounce animation speeds/lengths are pretty much the same so I don't think there's a huge difference between the styles. I conceed that it might be too easy to get the bounced saber during a slow bounce but since getting into a stun/knockdown isn't that bad of a situation I think it would work out. How about we possibly try it and see what happens?
Oh alright, it's your call. But I'm still worried about putting too many gaps in the back and forth combat as well as the fact that faster styles will be able to hit the slowbounces of slower styles much easier than vice versa. I don't know, maybe if the slower styles do more DP damage in general, that could be the balancing factor.

Quote:
Right now all singles have the lunge and the overhead flip. The flip currently has two variations, a flip stab for the "lighter" styles and a overhead slash for the "heavier" styles. As for the DFA, red is currently the only style that does it but I plan to expand it to include purple (desann) with the spinning DFA move and possibly yellow.

In addition, I reworked things so that DFAs and overhead flips can be done with the same stance. DFAs can now be done in mid-air and now require a top swing windup before they will work. But you do have to be moving at run speed for it to work.
Wow, interesting. You're ahead of me on that one.

Quote:
Actually I've been trying to make the styles all move at about the same speed. Unfortunately, the swing speeds are a bit deceptive since the windup speeds vary quite a bit.
Honestly, unless you really do some serious tweaking to the windup speeds, I don't think they'll ever move at the same speed. The number of frames of each style seem to vary alot as well so it would be really hard for them to move at the same speed from that standpoint as well.

But honestly, I would rather them not move at the same speed so making different DP damages is reasonable. I think varying speeds and varying DP damages allows for a lot more variaty in individual styles and tactics. If they do all move at the same speed, red is also always going to have an advantage over the others because of its reach. I suppose if red was just a slight bit slower than the others and tavions was just a slight bit faster, it would balance out, but those windup animations kill.

Another possibility is varying FP damages amoung the styles, but this would have to be only if you decided play with default FP gains otherwise, everyone would run out of steam way too quickly.

I also think it would be interesting to choose maybe three of the existing singles when using single kind of like how force mod 3 did it. It would also open up the possiblity of making weaker single saber styles based on staff and dual moves. This would allow for custimization for peoples individual styles.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 03:49 AM   #175
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Other than the tavion/blue style, the styles are pretty synced up now. As for balance, I think the windup periods for the larger swing styles will simply have slower windups. This balancing has been done for the most part already. It's really just a matter of tweaking the overall speeds and the speeds of individual windups that don't quite move right. For this purpose, loads of feedback on the style speeds would be great.

FYI, I've already tweaked the blue attack swings to make them more at the speed of theo the styles.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 04:23 AM   #176
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Other than the tavion/blue style, the styles are pretty synced up now. As for balance, I think the windup periods for the larger swing styles will simply have slower windups. This balancing has been done for the most part already. It's really just a matter of tweaking the overall speeds and the speeds of individual windups that don't quite move right. For this purpose, loads of feedback on the style speeds would be great.

FYI, I've already tweaked the blue attack swings to make them more at the speed of theo the styles.
I still think if your going to have slower windups you need more DP (or FP) damage done with that style other wise no one is going to want to use it. The last time I tried to fight you with red style, I got my arse kicked because I could not react fast enough or do enough DP damage so I really think something should be done balance wise until all the speeds are perfectly match or at least much closer than they are now.

Btw, for one of the up coming versions of Enhanced, I'd like to make a professional looking manual for the saber system and other important changes. I already have to make some kind of manual as an assignment for my Technical Writing class, so I figured I'd use OJP Enhanced for it. If you would like to use it with the release of v0.0.7 or 0.0.8 you'll have to describe in detail what the changes are or let me play around with it before the release. My manual assignment is due March 15, so it will have to be about a version released before then if you want to use it. If you did decide to use it, I would update it for each release.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 05:46 AM   #177
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
We will have to see about the saber swing speeds. Red's main problem at the moment is that some of the windups in certain directions are just insanely slow. I can fix those issues as people figure out which swing directions have the crappy windups. If it ends up not being enough, I'll add in the DP differences.

As for a manual, that would be awesome. OJP has been lacking a well done manual since...ever! Are you sure that your teacher would count this as an acceptable project for the assignment?

Anyway, I suggest that you just grab the new release when it comes out this week and go from there. I don't think I can describe things in enough detail have you just transcribe them into a manual. There's been a LOT of changes since the last version, but I beleive I'm pretty good about documenting the changes in the changelog. You could use that as a starting point for your manual.

FYI, in terms of the changelog entries, 0.0.7 will be the largest release yet. I currently have over a page worth of changelog info for it.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 06:26 AM   #178
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Ok, the bots are currently totally rocking my socks now. They're pretty wicked fighters with the latest changes and this is dispite the fact that they don't use any of the special moves.

I think my bug fixes combined with the simplifed saber behavior mechanics has made a notable improvement to the back/forth action. Most notably, I fixed it so that players can't parry when being forced into a block from an attack or bounce. As such, players have to be physically on the defense before they can do a parry and this fixes a problem where players were able to parry blows while swing spamming their opponent. The players are forced to actively attempt to block before they can get another good swing attempt in. Swing, Swing, Block, Block, Parry, Swing, Swing, Attack Fake, Lunge Finisher! Woot!


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 06:43 AM   #179
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Well, color me impressed, the saber sounds from http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/3909.html are pretty good. But there's a question of either or not we should change the sounds away from the defaults. Plus,we'll have to get permission from the author to use the sounds if we decided to use them.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 02:31 PM   #180
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
As for a manual, that would be awesome. OJP has been lacking a well done manual since...ever! Are you sure that your teacher would count this as an acceptable project for the assignment?
Last time I asked my teacher, she said it was ok as long as the manual didn't end up being too long. I'll ask her again today. I may also change up the wording a bit for the release to make it more fun to read because as most technical writing documents go, they are pretty boring to read.

Have you done anything to the slow bounce vulnerability yet? You should try attemping to hit one of their slow bounces before you make a final decision on how it will work as far as what Dp damage or mishaps happen an when. If it seems good to you, go for it. Although I don't think it should be able to cause DP < 50 like stuns because you can often get more than one swing in cause too much DP loss and they are better "finish him!" poses anyway. I think it should just be knock downs or maybe disarms........or DP/FP loss with the same style!

And just out of curiousity, will the low jumps like cartwheels, wall jumps, and backflips have les FP drain in time for the next release? What about that killer backflip kick absorbing idea you had?

Quote:
Well, color me impressed, the saber sounds from http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/3909.html are pretty good. But there's a question of either or not we should change the sounds away from the defaults. Plus,we'll have to get permission from the author to use the sounds if we decided to use them.
Yeah I thought you'd like Clouds Sounds. They sound really good when combined with a few of the movie sounds noises too (especially the wall hit). Until we get the authors permission, I would suggest putting a link to it in the read me saying that these sounds are good to use with Enhanced.

I look very forward to trying out 0.0.7 and posting the changes at the MB site, I think these changes will really give Enhanced the versitility it needs to impress alot more people.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-15-2006 at 04:00 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 04:21 PM   #181
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Have you done anything to the slow bounce vulnerability yet?
Not yet. I'm trying to make sure that all the special moves have been retooled for OJP first.

Quote:
Until we get the authors permission, I would suggest putting a link to it in the read me saying that these sounds are good to use with Enhanced.
Speaking of which, if you got the time, would you mind contacting the author? I don't seem to have the recruiting "touch".

Say, does anyone know if pcgamemods.com is accepting uploads again? It looks like other authors are submitting now.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 04:40 PM   #182
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Not yet. I'm trying to make sure that all the special moves have been retooled for OJP first.
No problem. One thing at a time is always good.

Quote:
Speaking of which, if you got the time, would you mind contacting the author? I don't seem to have the recruiting "touch".
LOL, Ok I'll see what I can do.

Quote:
Say, does anyone know if pcgamemods.com is accepting uploads again? It looks like other authors are submitting now.
Don't know. I checked to see if the new authors have posted things in the past and many of them haven't. Of course this could mean that they just traded out a previous release of theirs as Lathain suggested. You might want to give it a shot.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 04:48 PM   #183
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I'll try it when I release the next Enhanced version.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 05:15 PM   #184
Lathain Valtiel
Ex-Angel
 
Lathain Valtiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 929
LFN Staff Member 
Yeah. What they're doing is updating an old release.


Kurgan's Meatgrinder (JA Server: 72.5.248.212:29070)

Player tested, Valtiel approved.

Valtiel approved downloads for Meatgrinder: http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/downloads.shtml
Lathain Valtiel is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 05:20 PM   #185
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
F.Y.I. After a little bit of research I found Cloud's email address (I think) and sent him an email requesting the use of his saber sounds. If he responds and says yes quickly, we might what to include them in v0.0.7. as a thankyou or something.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-15-2006, 06:52 PM   #186
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Sounds like a good plan.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 05:38 AM   #187
Greiver
Rookie
 
Greiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: the dark place in your mind
Posts: 41
holy crap i go away for a couple of months thinking OJP had died but now your working on a sabersystem.

time to bring out my old copy of JK:JA an get ready to test test test untill sleep is only a memory


quote
"Though steel thy flesh divide"
Greiver is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 05:43 AM   #188
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
It's not dead yet. It's normally just a matter of bugging me to release the crap I've finished. Lately, JRHockney and Lath have lit a fire under my butt so things have actually been getting done and released.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 06:45 AM   #189
Greiver
Rookie
 
Greiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: the dark place in your mind
Posts: 41
any hints you'd be ablt to give with the sabersystem that could help me not get my ass kicked by bots would be handy,

and as a suggestion you could restrict styles to specific saber handles and make the sabers have different attributes like in Kotor where certain saber mods make the saber better for bolt deflection or saber on saber fighting, also you could speed up red style a little because it always felt weighty and light has no weight, it would still be easyer to block then yellow or blue but it wouldn't be as easy to get out of the way as it is in base Jk:JA just a suggestion cause i always smacked my head into the table if i got hit with red style cause no matter how close you are you can get out of there cause of how slow it was.

i havent played the new enhanced yet so im not sur how it will effect gameplay


quote
"Though steel thy flesh divide"
Greiver is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 04:10 PM   #190
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Yes Greiver, join us into in the butt burnination! LOL

As far as tip for killing bots, always (even when youre swinging). When you parry them, hit where there saber isn't and also occasionally kick them and swat at them when they are on the ground. Other than that, just use good strategy overall and be creative. These strategies will become a lot more complex with the next build though.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 04:54 PM   #191
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
From my experience with the latest build, I'd recommend that you don't run while fighting and to stop attacking until you parry if your opponent happens to force you into a block. With the way things work, the dude who is blocking isn't going to be able to hit the attacker from a block with an attack unless he parries the attacker or is really good with the quick swing attacks.

Quote:
and as a suggestion you could restrict styles to specific saber handles and make the sabers have different attributes like in Kotor where certain saber mods make the saber better for bolt deflection or saber on saber fighting, also you could speed up red style a little.
I'm not really big about assigning anything really important to the hilts (.sab files) since they could be easily abused. Plus, doing so takes a fair amount of control away from the players ingame.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 06:08 PM   #192
Greiver
Rookie
 
Greiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: the dark place in your mind
Posts: 41
oh no the autorun is not a valid win32 function oh no oh no oh no
bloody scratches oh well ill have to try my mint copy

.........

yay its working


quote
"Though steel thy flesh divide"

Last edited by Greiver; 02-16-2006 at 06:21 PM.
Greiver is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 07:57 PM   #193
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Ok, I can't get it out of my mind, red style is going to get plastered everytime if it doesn't have some kind of attack advantage! Since you can no longer parry while attacking, red will have little or no defense against a faster style when a red fighter starts a swing and because it have no DP damage advantage. If there still will be no DP damage variation amoung the styles and the red windup is still slow, it needs something else. Longer reach just ins't enough of an advantage in this saber system at the moment. Possible suggestions:

1. make red cause longer slow bounces

2. give red a knockdown bonus when the opponent has 75 FP or maybe even DP.

3. More DP points for that style

4. Anything!!! We're going to lose possible Base JA players if they come here and their beloved red style sucks!

Of course these possible alternatives may also vary amoung the other styles as well. Desanns style may get overpowered as well.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 08:19 PM   #194
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I'll make fixing the windup speeds a priority.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #195
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Ok, I did the math and I dramatically increased the speed of the red/purple's returns and windups. That seems to have fixed things up nicely.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 10:31 PM   #196
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Ok, I did the math and I dramatically increased the speed of the red/purple's returns and windups. That seems to have fixed things up nicely.
Good job. Thats a heck of an accomplishment all things considering. I just hope red style doesn't become over used now! LOL

Any chance you'll get to lowering the FP costs for cartwheels, backflips and wall jumps and also the idea about hitting the slow bounces before the release?

I have a quick thought in case hitting the slow bounce is too easy (which i have a feeling it will be): how about if hitting the slow bounce with a normal swing does more DP/FP damage and hitting it with a power fake causes the mishap? This might add veriaty to how to attack, help the back and forth action, and make it a little harder, yet more realistic to cause the DP > 50 mishap.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 10:42 PM   #197
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
The cost for backflips appear to be linked into the jump costs so I don't think I'll be able to change it before the release tonight.

As for your idea, I like it. I might go with that.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 10:52 PM   #198
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
The cost for backflips appear to be linked into the jump costs so I don't think I'll be able to change it before the release tonight.

As for your idea, I like it. I might go with that.
Cool!!! Oh wait.......here it comes............here it comes!!..............THIS IS WORTHY OF A STRONG BAD DANCE!!!

So are cartwheels and wall flips linked as well?

Oh, I almost forgot. If you can't get to making the backflip absorb kicks before the release of v0.0.7, you might want to give a temporary means of block so it doesn't become too used as a means of attacking slowbouncing opponents. I might suggest pressing forward to absorb a kick because at least for me, its not as natural of a block/parry direction. This could also be the parry direction for lunge if it isn't already.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 02-16-2006 at 11:12 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-16-2006, 11:30 PM   #199
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I have no idea about the cartwheels/wall flips.

As for blocking kicks, I think we're going to have to wait until after the next release. I'm kind of overloaded with getting the knockdown code cleaned up in time.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-17-2006, 01:49 AM   #200
Tapela
Rookie
 
Tapela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Strongbad is cool . Can't wait for the new version of OJP, you're awesome Razorace. Wish I could support with as many ideas as JRHockney but I don't think I could write so many specificly without getting way too confusing and unbeneficial/unusuable.



Anyway thanks again for your work, I greatly appreciate it and look forward to future releases, maybe I could catch a game with JRHockney or something too :P.

...Too excited to sleep
Tapela is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > Saber system suggestions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.