lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Darth Plagueis the Wise
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Sorry, this thread is closed. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 01-16-2006, 04:08 PM   #1
Tysyacha
One of Thousands
 
Tysyacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kirkwall/The Free Marches
Posts: 3,181
Current Game: Dragon Age II
Forum Veteran Roleplayer Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Darth Plagueis the Wise

I'm curious about this Sith Lord that Palpatine mentions in Episode III.

During what time period was Darth Plagueis alive and Lord of the Sith?

Who killed Darth Plagueis in his sleep? Palpatine?

Who was the one that Palpatine said had cheated death?
"Only one has done this", he says to Anakin.

Darth Plagueis sure didn't, but who did?
Tysyacha is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 05:43 PM   #2
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
Actually, presumably Plagueis did, several times...up until he didn't, IMHO.

I also reject the idea that Palpatine was his apprentice. There's no evidence to support that claim. When exactly he lived is unknown, though presumably after the Rule of Two was instituted.



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 05:44 PM   #3
Jeff
Rating: Awesome
 
Jeff's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 8,427
Current Game: SWTOR
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Notable contributor LFN Staff Member 
spoiler:
Darth Plaguis is Darth Sidious's master.


I believe that is revealed in Labrynth of Evil, which I am reading though haven't gotten to that part yet.


Follow me on Twitter
Follow StarWarsMMO.net on Twitter | Like us on Facebook
Jeff is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 05:58 PM   #4
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
I slouch corrected



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 07:07 PM   #5
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
if you think about it, after Darth Vader was redeemed and died, and came back resurrected as the force, didnt he escape death? if it happened, it was only because Darth Vader was sincere in what he came to before killing Darth Sidious.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 08:14 PM   #6
BattleDog
Terrible in War
 
BattleDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,923
Roleplayer 
No, Vader did not become One with the Force, Anakin Skywalker did, which is why his Force ghost is a young man. He became One with the Force because he sacrificed his life for his son. There is always the posibility that Palpatine is lying, or that the One he refers to is actually a Jedi.


Fly Fast,
Shoot Straight,
Live Long!
BattleDog is offline   you may:
Old 01-16-2006, 08:40 PM   #7
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
thats what i meant, anakin, but i still knew what i meant so its cool. thanks.

off subject: yeah i thought it cool when lucas re-released the episodes and in Return of the Jedi, hayden christensen, was standing with yoda and obi-wan.

on subject: so because, anakin, came back to the balance, it redeemed him that much to understand the true nature of the force, enought to be "resurrected?"

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 02:30 AM   #8
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
I also reject the idea that Palpatine was his apprentice. There's no evidence to support that claim. When exactly he lived is unknown, though presumably after the Rule of Two was instituted.
Its also mentioned in the Dark lord novel deffinately worth picking up and has some great quotes from plagueis

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
— Darth Plagueis

"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the Galaxy itself."
— Darth Plagueis


Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 07:35 AM   #9
MdKnightR
Senior Member
 
MdKnightR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Feeling Hosed By Your Governme
Posts: 1,859
^^^^I like those quotes! Thanks for sharing!

MdKnightR is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 08:54 AM   #10
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
An interesting interpretation of traditional Sith teaching...Thanks!

Ragnos was almost resurrected, but Tavion was cheating, IMHO...



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 09:17 AM   #11
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
— Darth Plagueis

"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the Galaxy itself."
— Darth Plagueis

and they say the Sith werent knowledgeable. this is another reason i wanted to come to this conclusion. Plagueis had to of had some idea, its obvious...and because Sidious probably was his apprentice, shows off on how Palpetine gained what Plagueis mentioned. whether Sidious really had power over himself, is probably questionable, but that doesnt mean he didnt have control of the galaxy.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 09:19 AM   #12
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleDog
No, Vader did not become One with the Force, Anakin Skywalker did, which is why his Force ghost is a young man.
It depends which version you watch.

Prime is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 09:29 AM   #13
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
i like both because the first was the original, which, you know the old VHS boxes and original artwork, my granny has. she is just as much of a star wars buff as i am. lol. shes the one who introduced it to me when i was like 5 years old and i have been in love ever since!

anyways.

what are all the lines of books you can read all this different stuff on? like what are the best chronicles that lead up to epidode 1, after Knights of the Old Republic 2: the Sith Lords and after Return of the Jedi?

are the games, Knights of the Old Republic even in the books, or is that where they got the game?

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."

Last edited by shaded6; 01-17-2006 at 10:40 AM.
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 11:25 AM   #14
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6

and they say the Sith werent knowledgeable.

Who says that?

I dont remember anywhere saying they dont have knowledge of course they do, but then you dont really say what they werent knowledgeable on? the force? pod racing? how a hyrdospanner works?

Cleaned up post to "stay on topic" ~ ChAiNz.2da



Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 01-17-2006 at 12:27 PM.
Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 12:10 PM   #15
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Anyway back on topic Plaguis The Wise i hope to god they start releasing more info on him soon it needs to be done!



Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 01-17-2006 at 12:25 PM.
Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 12:24 PM   #16
ChAiNz.2da
Brony 4 Life. Yo.
 
ChAiNz.2da's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tennessee (USA)
Posts: 6,845
Current Game: Minecraft MP: PynCraft|Tekkit
@shaded6
@Darth_Terros

Take it to PM's guys

I've "purged" the posts to clean up the thread....


"Eagles May Soar, But Weasels Don't Get Sucked Into Jet Engines"


| Mods (FF) (DS) | Folding | SWK.com | FB: (LF) (Me) | Steam | The Herd |
ChAiNz.2da is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 12:27 PM   #17
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
thanks chainz, yeah, Terros, peace? again, IM me and we can talk, it sounds good and i do want to know more about a lot of things. sorry about all of that chainz and, Darth Terros.

back on subject: yeah, i would really like to know his ways of thinking, especially after quotes like the ones you posted.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 01:24 PM   #18
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Nothing has really been said about his way of thinking but i guess we can assume he's pretty damn evil and probably wasnt a very nice man at all lol

From the first Quote seems he was a bit of a bastard to Sidious mocking him it seems as if to make his hate stronger Palpatine later takes these teachings and applies them to his own apprentice Vader by at first denying him the task of destroying the last jedi and taking away his freedom.

With the second quote seems it seems palapatine took this quote and used it in his plan for conquering the galaxy infact it is pretty much how he did it.

If anything i think Plagueis couldve been a Sith Lord capable of being the greatest Dark Lord Of The Sith ever known if only he hadnt taken on the young palpatine as an apprentice.


Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 03:39 PM   #19
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
Darth Plagueis might of had an evil nature to him, especially in the concept of these two quotes, but i can definately see them effecting the way Darth Sidious planned to act on his old Master's ideas. his political accomplishment had to of been some greater knowledge in how he was going to go about construction the Empire.

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
— Darth Plagueis

does this not speak volumes?

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you;"

this challenge Sidious' point of veiw in what he wants to accomplish, his lack of understanding, his ideas and train of thought, his ego, and how he was the apprentice, not, the Master. discipline.

"tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face;"

this speaks of the true nature of the dark side and how he can teach to embrace it, overcoming fear for strength and power, contemplation, and resolution; becoming one with the teaching.

"tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you;"

teaching him something he never had, and showing him the access to self control and acceptance.

"and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."

again, putting him in his place, because he is the Master, not, the apprentice, because it is the Master who understands, not necessarily the apprentice.

i wrote this out earlier but my computer was ****ed up. pissed me off because it was a different point, same base of thought, but totally different.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 04:04 PM   #20
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Once again some of the things you are saying arnt making much sense

Quote:
"tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you;"

teaching him something he never had, and showing him the access to self control and acceptance.
Unless im being incredibly dumb i dont see how you could interpret that part of the quote to how you did?

Surely its more a case of tell me what you love i'll take it away thus making you feel pain and hate even more

kind of like how Padme was taken away from vader thus angering him more taking him deeper to the darkside.

How do you teach someone something they've never had?


Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 04:57 PM   #21
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
thats not obvious? by introducing it to him, because he NEVER knew it.

not saying your concept is wrong, but if something is taken away from you, something you cherrish, and it enrages you, do you act out on that rage or do you accept it? and who is it that takes it and who is it you become inraged at? under experienced, do you try and kill your Master or listen to how he instructs you to use your anger?

teaching you something you never had: can be the dark side of the force, because you have to start from nowhere, to figure out how to get somewhere. you cant just say, hey, i'm a Sith Lord, i think i'm going to kill you now....that would be foolish, no matter how angry you are, especially if you are NOT a Sith Lord, and challenge your Master, he will definately show you something you never had before. and in the example of Darth Plagueis was to "dub" Darth Sidious, wouldnt Plagueis have to know what he is talking about to teach him?

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 05:05 PM   #22
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Seriously im not gonna bother trying to discuss anything any more with you till you sort your atrocious writing style out.

Sorry but its appalling and very hard to follow, theres no real reason why it should be like that unless your from a non english speaking country?

Please dont take this as a flame or anything nasty but if your gonna post of a forum please make it more clear as to what your point is.

So im out of this discussion. until someone brings something else up


Darth_Terros is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 07:14 PM   #23
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
i wonder why its appalling, for the second time today, you've been like this, i just hope chainz does not ban us. yeah, well, anyways, what? you cant think about it because it confuses you? and because it obviously confuses you, its appalling?

lol, yeah, my ex-fiances mother used to say this word: appalling.

you want the point?

here you go....simple context, just for you.

never been down the dark side? just ask your Master and he will tell you what the dark side is. and if you cant understand that, then i dont know why you call yourself Darth Terros.

how are you suppossed to know something you've never experienced before?

just because its compelling, doesnt mean you understand it. and just because your new to the Sith code, doesnt mean you are a Sith. you have to learn something new in order to know what it means. you have to practice what is taught, so you know how to "use" it, and you have to ask questions and listen or it will never serve you any good to believe in the code you feel compelled to follow.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall set free me.

what are your thoughts on the code? they are stated plainly so, dont just blow it off, they say something you have to think about, and get, not just, what they say. but, because they say this, you also have the first understanding of what they mean, so you know what you are living by and what they say the Sith live by, from experience.

the code wouldnt be "real" if it werent something the Sith embraced, by experience and compulsion on their quest for power.

what do you need to know first about what it takes to know the ultimate power, the Sith search for? who has to teach it to you? and how is it introduced; enough to be consumed by wanting to attain that power?

"Always two there are—no more, no less: a Master, and an apprentice.

-Jedi Master Yoda, Star Wars: The Phantom Menace"

the dark side of the force cannot be learned if you never find the Master to teach you...

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."

Last edited by shaded6; 01-17-2006 at 07:38 PM.
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 08:22 PM   #24
Nedak
Beelzebozo
 
Nedak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,836
LucasCast Jingle Composer Forum Veteran Hot Topic Starter 
Heres some Info I found on Wikipedia a while back:

The Origin of Anakin Skywalker
As revealed in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, Anakin Skywalker has no biological father. His mother, Shmi Skywalker, was unable to explain to Qui-Gon Jinn how Anakin was conceived. Qui-Gon would later theorize that Anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians themselves, in accord with the will of the Force. This theory, combined with Anakin's unusually high midi-chlorian count and powerful connection to the Force, led Qui-Gon to believe that Anakin was the prophesied "Chosen One" who would bring balance to the Force.

It isn't until Revenge of the Sith that the subject is brought up again, when Darth Sidious states that Darth Plagueis was able to create life by influencing midi-chlorian. Anakin himself appears to take less interest in the conception of life than Plagueis's reputed ability to prevent death, so the subject is not further discussed. Whether or not Plagueis ever truly learned the secret to creating life is unclear. Sidious may have been lying to appeal to Anakin's sensibilities: Sidious later tacitly admits that, although he is the apprentice from Plagueis's tale, he does not actually know the secret of preventing death, so perhaps Plagueis in turn never knew the secret of creating life. It is possible that Plagueis knew this power, but did not actually share it with his apprentice. However, it is unlikely that Sidious, known for his methodical planning, would be so quick to kill his master before learning this technique (if it ever truly existed).

It has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in the womb of his mother, Shmi. According to Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology, Darth Plagueis indeed knew how to create life, and sought to create a replacement for his apprentice, Darth Sidious. In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it is revealed that Sidious did not learn Plagueis's secret for the creation of life; and alternatively to the aforementioned sources, Sidious muses that Anakin is the "one created by the Force itself to restore balance".

The true extent of Plagueis's power may never be revealed. George Lucas himself has stated that Plageuis and his possible role in the origin of Skywalker were intentionally left ambiguous.
Nedak is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 08:48 PM   #25
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
if anakin was created by Plagueis' teachings, because Plagueis isnt mentioned as Darth Sidious' Master until later; not even speaking on whether Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice, how is it that Plagueis had probably been dead long before anakins birth? couldnt this mean that he might of been created by Sidious?

if Plagueis was still alive during Senator Palpetines/Darth Sidious' political movement, why wasnt he mentioned being still alive and Darth Sidious' Master, throughout the entire trilogy, except the mentioning of Plagueis in episode 3? when Sidious said that Plagueis' apprentice killed him in his sleep?

and if Sidious had always known that power to create life, why would he say:

"to cheat death is the power only one has achieved, but, if we work together, i know we can discover the secrets." Darth Sidious. he knew that Plagueis knew this power, enough to say, "only one has achieved," doesnt mean that Sidious knew that power.

doesnt this mean he doesnt really know that power? if it does, does this mean that it could have been Plagueis who gave birth to anakin without Sidious knowing, if he was indeed still alive during the episodes?

plus, if you get into what Shmi said:

"There was no father. I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him. I can't explain what happened." Shmi Skywalker

how would Plagueis use this power from a long distance, maybe even systems away from Tatooine? did he ever visit Tatooine?

"Overview
Son of Shmi Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker is born in 41 BBY. Shmi claims that there was no father and that her pregnancy with Anakin resulted from a virgin conception. Some viewers have drawn parallels between Anakin's origin and the New Testament stories of Jesus' conception and birth, as well as classic mythological stories. Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn suggests that Anakin might have been conceived by the midi-chlorians — the implication being that Anakin is a creation of the Force itself. (According to Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis learned to provoke midi-chlorians into producing life—some have viewed this as a clue to Anakin's origins.) Lucas has said that all these issues were left deliberately ambiguous, and that it has been left for the audience to decide how Anakin was created. Still, controversy rages over Anakin's origins, and producer Rick McCallum's recent DVD commentary has added fuel to the fire."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker


seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."

Last edited by shaded6; 01-17-2006 at 11:21 PM.
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 11:06 PM   #26
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
We all know by now that Plagueis had no role in Anakin's birth whatsoever, so it's pointless to speculate.
TK-8252 is offline   you may:
Old 01-17-2006, 11:48 PM   #27
Nedak
Beelzebozo
 
Nedak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,836
LucasCast Jingle Composer Forum Veteran Hot Topic Starter 
^ How can we be so sure?? Also the ability to manipulate mediclorians does not matter how far away you are from the birth carrier.
Nedak is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 12:04 AM   #28
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
no, we dont know that. just because it isnt written anywhere, atleast not officially, doesnt mean it couldnt of happened. unless it is written somewhere.

the subject was on Darth Plagueis the Wise, this also involves, who he was, what he was capable of, who he was involved with; his apprentice; Darth Sidious, and his teachings.

"Future plans for Anakin Skywalker
Palpatine knew he would need the aid of someone with extraordinary power and strength with the Force if he was ever to defeat his enemies. After Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul during the Battle of Naboo, Palpatine set his sights on recruiting another, even more powerful force-user: Anakin Skywalker.

The true extent of Palpatine's influence on Anakin's life remains unclear. It has been suggested that Palpatine created Anakin by manipulating the Midichlorians; it has also been theorized that Palpatine used his power to kill his former mentor.

When Anakin was brought before the Jedi Council by Jinn, they initially refused to allow him to be trained, because they sensed a dark cloud surrounding the boy's future."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine

so if he was(?) created by the power of Darth Plagueis, being a dark side power, wouldnt it explain his {Anakin Skywalker} nature towards the force when yoda said:

"Everything! Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you." Master Yoda

it might not be a main role in the nature of things, but if one of the things yoda spoke of was a problem anakin had been fighting, from the beginning, wouldnt you think this could also explain anakins nature especially if he was concieved by the force?

"And you, young Skywalker; we shall watch your career with great interest." Senator Palpetine/Darth Sidious

did Sidious know what he meant when he said this? did he have the same idea Qui-Gon Jin had when he first met anakin because Sidious also sensed the force being strong with skywalker?


seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 07:57 AM   #29
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Umm... we do know that Plagueis didn't create him. George Lucas as said that Anakin is the Chosen One, and if you listened during TPM, you'd know that means that the Force created him.
TK-8252 is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 08:06 AM   #30
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
shaded with the wiki again

TK, everyone etc.

There is ONE source of evidence that clarifies what GL thinks about whether the sith created anakin.... In a rolling stone interview around the time of the release of ROTS, Lucas was plainly asked "Did the sith create anakin" Lucas said he shot the scene to make it ambiguous, the more important thing being that Palpatine was basically throwing out lures to anakin to see which one he would bite. Whether or not it was actually true becomes irrelevant, as Palpatine succeeds in ensnaring Anakin.

Even then, after hinting to anakin he could tell him "the secrets of life and death", and after Anakin slays Mace, sidious backs out saying they'll need to work together to learn the secret. Even here, Sidious could be lying as it would definitely not serve his interests to have anakin get his way and have Padme saved. Sidious is relying on Anakins pain and rage, simple as that.

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 10:01 AM   #31
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
here we go again:

"Overview
Son of Shmi Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker is born in 41 BBY. Shmi claims that there was no father and that her pregnancy with Anakin resulted from a virgin conception. Some viewers have drawn parallels between Anakin's origin and the New Testament stories of Jesus' conception and birth, as well as classic mythological stories. Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn suggests that Anakin might have been conceived by the midi-chlorians — the implication being that Anakin is a creation of the Force itself. (According to Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis learned to provoke midi-chlorians into producing life—some have viewed this as a clue to Anakin's origins.) Lucas has said that all these issues were left deliberately ambiguous, and that it has been left for the audience to decide how Anakin was created. Still, controversy rages over Anakin's origins, and producer Rick McCallum's recent DVD commentary has added fuel to the fire."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker

is that not a good source of information to back you up Astrotoy7? just for clarification.

and i can see why Sidious would want to provoke anakin to embrace his pain and rage: this is the Sith's prime teaching.

"The Sith also believe that instead of living alongside the Force, one must master it and use it as a tool."

"It is largely based on emotions and passion rather than peace and serenity which are preached by the light side of the Force."

and even the 2 quotes Terros posted make you think on the True Nature of The Dark Side:

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
— Darth Plagueis

"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the Galaxy itself."
— Darth Plagueis

so self control can also be an asset towards gaining more power over yourself, your capabilities in the force, and using it for what you would use it for; good or evil. and because you realize your own self control, you realize your place as the apprentice, not yet the Master. but because you are taught in the ways of the dark side of the force, as Vader was consumed, it consumes you to the point to want to become the Master; which includes your own ideas on the dark side of the force, your own power, and your own will to do whatever the hell it is you want to do with that power.

are there anymore teachings on Darth Plaugeis' mindset? i can see this in Darth Sidious also, especially using anakins emotions against him, so anakin can learn to embrace them (referring to Plagueis' quotes). here is an instance also, on the nature of Sidious' teachings:

"Born circa 57 BBY, Darth Maul was the first known apprentice to Darth Sidious. A Zabrak originally from Iridonia, Maul had no memories of his homeworld or family, having been kidnapped as an infant by Sidious."

"Indoctrinated in the ways of the Dark Side from youth, Maul had no emotion aside from bloodlust and rage. By the time Maul was an adolescent, his master had already forged him into a weapon of pure hatred.

The ultimate test came when Maul was abandoned by his master on an isolated Outer Rim world, forced to survive alone while being hunted by hordes of assassin droids. After a month's time, his master returned and challenged his apprentice to a duel, one which Maul lost. Sidious then told Maul that he had failed and he had been secretly training a replacement for him. Rage and hatred overwhelmed Maul, and, in one final act of defiance, he nearly defeated his master. When Maul's emotions were finally spent, he prepared himself for death, yet his master laughed instead. By wanting to kill his own master, Maul had in fact passed the final test. His master proclaimed him Darth Maul, Dark Lord of the Sith and took him to a new home on Coruscant. Unlike later apprentices, Tyranus and Vader, Maul had no ambition to strike down his master. He did realize, however, that Sith tradition required the death of his master before he could acquire an apprentice of his own."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Maul

this can also speak volumes on the Sith code, the gaining of control over oneself, by embracing it and using that control for your own power, the influence of the dark side and the Sith tradition. not much different then the thought of Sidious' Master and his own idea. to convert someone to the dark side, you have to be able to teach them to embrace it; while, in that process, it consumes you.

so Darth Plaugeis' teachings werent necessarily vain if Sidious had no ****in clue on how to attain them, it just means, the Master always has a greater understanding then his apprentice; (this could make the apprentice impatient and jealous) but because that Master has that apprentice he is given the oppurtunity to explain to the apprentice everything he knew, as in the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise:

"Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? No? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life.... He had such a knowledge of the dark side he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. [smiles] How ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself." Supreme Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Sidious, Plagueis' apprentice;

this explains much on the ways of the dark side.

"the dark side of the force is the pathway to many abilities that some consider unatural." Supreme Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Sidious.

does this mean he had the ability that Plagueis had? when Sidious said more on different subjects that involved this power, and never admitting to having it himself?

"Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn the Dark Side of the Force and you will save your wife from certain death." Supreme Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Vader

putting a perspective out there for anakin to contemplate; misleading him (now) later by saying:

"to cheat death is the power only one has achieved, but, if we work together, i know we can discover the secrets." Darth Sidious

anakin pledged himself to Sidious' teaching, maybe in hope of attaining his power to save padme? then later misleading him again saying:

"Lord Vader, can you hear me?" Darth Sidious
"Yes, master." Darth Vader
"Where is Padmé? Is she safe? Is she all right?" Darth Vader
"It seems in your anger, you killed her." Darth Sidious
"I? I couldn't have! She was alive! I felt her!" Darth Vader
[things begin to implode in the room, including droids. Vader breaks loose from his restraints, takes his first steps, and then rears back in anger and pain while the Emperor smiles] (Sidious smiles, wickedly).
"Noooooo!" Darth Vader

as if Sidious no longer has to try and teach Vader what he originally promised and suceeding in anakins full conversion.

in a way, yes, anakin contributed to padme's death: she had lost the love of her life, the father of her children, anakin had turned to the dark side. but because all this happened, Sidious straight up lied to anakin about how she died. she lost the will to live. i dont blame her; everything that had happened probably devistated her to that point because of the way the dark side of the force was judging anakins character, after his conversion.

1, either hiding the truth in what Sidious' original comment was to convert anakin to the dark side for more power and to save padme, when he {anakin} knew she would die, and 2, Darth Sidious killed Plagueis because he either couldnt understand what his Master tried to teach him; couldnt master the ability for his {Sidious'} own gain, consumed with whatever emotion it is he went through and killed Plagueis, losing the knowledge of "life and death." if you want a key record of Palpetines ruthless behavior;

click here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine

did anakin ever learn this power from Sidious, when Sidious had promised him a way to attain it?

yes, it is pointless now because padme is already dead, but the fact of it is that Sidious probably never spoke on the subject again.....ofcourse after anakin had been completely converted to the dark side.

and just because Sidious didnt know the power, doesnt mean Plagueis didnt.

and what if another reason for killing Sidious was because of all the lies he had lead Darth Vader to believe in his quest for more power; never really achieving this power, because in all the episodes, except for 3, where we truely saw Vaders strength as the young Sith Lord, he was more misplaced towards being in control of the Empire and not his gain of additional power. more of a slave then an apprentice.

"Shira Brie (a.k.a. Lumiya) was a Force adept and Emperor's Hand who was trained in rudimentary Sith knowledge by Darth Vader. After the Emperor and Darth Vader died in the Battle of Endor, she inherited the title Dark Lady of the Sith, as she had been quietly instructed by Lord Vader in the basics of Sith teachings in a violation of the "Rule of Two"; and in what was possibly a prelude to his own attempt to assassinate Darth Sidious and take Lumiya as his apprentice (before encountering Luke and offering him that position during their duel at Bespin)."

one way or the other, Darth Vader got his revenge, found redemption and went on to become one with the force he was created by; fulfilling his "Chosen One" identity.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 04:07 PM   #32
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
No, wikipedia is not always a reliable source. ANYONE who wants to can edit the pages on wiki.
TK-8252 is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 05:38 PM   #33
Nedak
Beelzebozo
 
Nedak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,836
LucasCast Jingle Composer Forum Veteran Hot Topic Starter 
^ Thats true.... If someone like Supershadow got on the Wikipedia website their could be problems.
Nedak is offline   you may:
Old 01-18-2006, 11:10 PM   #34
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
hmmmm, yeah i thought about it, but then where is the legit information?

this is why i used mostly quotes then wiki. and even if the information i used from wiki, doenst mean it doesnt make a good point.

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 01:25 AM   #35
swphreak
My cabbages!!!
 
swphreak's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,510
10 year veteran! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
I think we can infer that Darth Plagueis was Darth Sidious/Palpatine's master. And since ever Sith Master is overthrown by his apparentice, yes, we can assume Sidious killed Plagueis after he learned everything he needed from him.

I believe Palpatine already knew how to cheat death, and just lied to Anakin. I also wonder if Palpatine used the death-cheating power to keep Anakin alive after the duel.

Also, you can get legit information from any official Star Wars website, and supershadow should be a censored word on this forum.
swphreak is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 05:54 AM   #36
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
lolz... I dont even see any point being discussed here that is not blatantly obvious ...

That Plageuis is Sidious Master is absolutely official and unequivocally established.

and this isnt wiki crap
http://www.starwars.com/databank/cha...ous/index.html

Everything else is conjecture, and cannot be stated clearly by anyone at this stage,as that is how GL has wanted it to pan out for the sake of anakins character development in ROTS.

We may only find out more in upcoming EU focusing in the sith lords

Now, I'll give this thread one more chance to not become a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sithy
juvenile nerd fest
-awesomez sithy

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 08:48 AM   #37
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
alright, between, Astrotoy7 and Insane Sith, if we cant get into a good conversation about star wars theory, the website shoudlnt even be in existence; no offense. also, no offense, the person who wrote the thread asked questions on the subject, if it becomes a nerd fest because we give our opinions and answers, as lucas wants us to do, its because either you, Astrotoy7 and Insane Sith, think that its a nerd fest. we're just getting into it all; lol, thats what we're suppossed to do.

"juvenile nerd fest" right.....well, i'm 20, so i lack the possibility of being a juvenile, ever again....

would you rather talk about Full Metal Alchemist? "winks at StarWars Phreak..."

seth

p.s and if we never get to a conclusion of the questions asked, then the person who wrote the thread never gets their answers; making every thread, even mine, pointless.

come on! let us get into it.....Astrotoy7, you have to admit, if you get into the conversation, that makes you just as much a nerd as everyone else, lol, especially if it comes to star wars. i actually enjoy talking with you, seriosuly, 1, your a moderater and you have some good info, 2, i'm here to ask questions, and 3, i'm here to find out information and try to answer those question; of either the person who asked or myself.

no one can say Sidious knew the power because he never proved it. we cant say why he didnt prove he did, didnt matter when he said:

"Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn the Dark Side of the Force and you will save your wife from certain death." Supreme Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Vader

he never proved that he knew. all he proved was that he knew force lightning, blue lightning, and was okay with a lightsaber. and granted, padme died, but this does not mean anything, even if he did know the power, it became pointless to use it. probably another reason why Sidious didnt need to teach Vader.

in the original trilogy you wont even see Sidious pick up a lightsaber, he has Vader do all that kind of thing.

sorry, i HAVE TO USE THIS....dont be mad, Astrotoy7.

"SW is testimony to sticking to a creative vision, and backing up your belief in it by risking your entire livelihood on it. Thats what GL did, and in the process he revolutionised the whole media of film and the film making process. I find that part of GLs story quite inspiring.

But Sw is special to me for many reasons, but most of all, the films, cartoons books games etc are FUN

mtfbwya" nerd........see, what that says, is exactly why i am into star wars and everything about it. i just have to get a good source of information.

"takes a hit from a cigarette"

seth


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."

Last edited by shaded6; 01-19-2006 at 09:35 AM.
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 09:45 AM   #38
swphreak
My cabbages!!!
 
swphreak's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,510
10 year veteran! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaded6
no one can say Sidious knew the power because he never proved it. we cant say why he didnt prove he did, didnt matter when he said:
What about at the end of the duel? Don't make me put in my ROTS DVD. I can swear Palpatine said stuff like "Live" or whatever. It sounds to me like he was using the power to cheat death for anakin.

Ok, maybe it was in the book, but I'm too lazy to search for it.
swphreak is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 09:49 AM   #39
shaded6
Rookie
 
shaded6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lake wales
Posts: 172
he did? yeah, your theory about how Vader lived might of been that power, i totally agree, i'll turn the movie on too myself just to check, but yeah. maybe he did. meet you back here in like a few minutes....

p.s off subject: Scars brother went absolutely ****in nuts! but somehow found his sanity. those alchemy tattoos were ****in awesome, especially when he was in contact with the stone, they raditated orangish red light, ****in awesome looking. i want to make a star wars anime, and my testimony into an anime.


"there is darkness in you Jedi Knight, i can feel it...."
shaded6 is offline   you may:
Old 01-19-2006, 09:54 AM   #40
ChAiNz.2da
Brony 4 Life. Yo.
 
ChAiNz.2da's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tennessee (USA)
Posts: 6,845
Current Game: Minecraft MP: PynCraft|Tekkit
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak
What about at the end of the duel? Don't make me put in my ROTS DVD. I can swear Palpatine said stuff like "Live" or whatever.
I think it was "He's alive.." but not sure..


"Eagles May Soar, But Weasels Don't Get Sucked Into Jet Engines"


| Mods (FF) (DS) | Folding | SWK.com | FB: (LF) (Me) | Steam | The Herd |
ChAiNz.2da is offline   you may:
Post a new thread. Sorry, this thread is closed. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Star Wars > The Cantina > Darth Plagueis the Wise

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:51 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.