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Old 01-17-2006, 11:37 PM   #1
CadmiumRED
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Do You Think It Can Be Possible..

Would it be possible if armor and robes can be worn at the same time? Look at Ulic Qel-Droma before he was a Sith, he wore armor/robes on him, and he looked REALLY cool. Maybe it might not be for KOTOR III, but I'd love to see this happen in future KOTOR games. What do you all think of this idea?


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Old 01-18-2006, 12:54 AM   #2
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Maybe it's a good idea, but don't forget, that KotOR is a game, RPG game. If player wears an armor and a robe at the same time, armor will be too strong, player may become too strong for the game.



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Old 01-18-2006, 01:17 AM   #3
Char Ell
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IIRC Darth Bandon from the original KotOR had light armor and seemed to use force powers normally restricted from use by armor-wearing characters. Coincidentally I'm in the middle of my first DS playthru of TSL and I keep thinking how it would rock to have light armor underneath robes for my Sith Marauder PC. So I think it's a great idea.

Actually, Colma Adawin (formerly MattColejk) has a Jedi and Sith Battle Robes Mod that goes along these lines. I really like the look of it but the tslpatcher didn't seem to work right with my TSL installation, like it was installing the mod 2x. My game kept crashing to desktop after I installed it and it took me removing all my mods and reinstalling them minus Colma's battle robes mod before I could get my game to run OK again.


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Old 01-18-2006, 01:31 AM   #4
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This is something I've always wanted

The simple solution would be to add a new class consisting of light armor and robe models, with their own niche in the item statistics.

The more complex (and ultimatley more rewarding) way would be to make it possible to combine different compatible types of underwear/clothes/armor/robes with different bonuses and penalties for each combination (per class not per individual item possibilities)
One way might be to weaken the stats on most items but have a layering system...
1st layer, underwear: base layer, mainly aesthetic, no defense or attributes (with the exception of expensive units that might utilize nanobots for regeneration, insulation for resistances, etc.)...boxers, briefs or thong (female pc )
2nd layer, clothing: most common item, base defense of 1-2 (3 would be very rare) more expensive outfits would provide some attribute benefits (less than armor, more than skivvies) the main advantage of clothing would be faction/alignment/attractiveness/charisma recognizable by npcs ingame.
3rd layer, armor: most versatile upgradeable item, base defense of 4-8 (with rare armor having base up to 10) easiest to find next to clothing, would include attachments for armbands and wrist rockets (they can still be used without armor, but armor including power units would give a small bonus to attached shields and weapons)
4th layer, robes: base defense 3-6 (rarest robes may have 7) larger robes can be worn over all armor (instead of optional replacement) the "smaller" the robe the lighter the armor it can fit over, may add dexterity penalty for wearing over armor.

Redhawke can hash out the numbers with me

I also want to see "real" gauntlets and boots, and maybe some sort of amulet (you could either use it to carry you're "one ring to rule them all" or possibly austin power's male symbol chain to increase mojo )


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Old 01-18-2006, 11:13 AM   #5
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Adding another class system seems a bit much, don't it? I'm sure as to why the armour restrictions in the game but this idea might be a bit out of league for the game unless someone creates a mod.

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Old 01-18-2006, 11:29 AM   #6
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Well, the Jal Shey and Zeishon Sha armor seems to take care of that anyways. Armor, yet not restricting force powers like robes.

As for these layers, that is a bit complicated- and unrealistic. Usually the PC isn't going to be wearing four layers of clothes. Way too much more to try and deal with, and besides, who in their right mind is going to wear underwear, clothes, armor, and robes at the same time, then go on to some super hot planet and fight Sith. It doesn't make any sense.

You see, if you have armor, clothes, and robes on, your movement is going to be seriously slowed, and even more force powers would need to be restricted. So in the long run, it doesn't really make any difference.

And besides, Jedi Robes are not meant to be armor- they are just that, Robes. If you want armored Jedi gear, go wear the Zeishon Sha and Jal Shey stuff. They already fit what you seem to want.
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:10 PM   #7
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Thanks for the tip Rob and by the way, I think the Jedi Council dropped you off on Bandomeer, in the middle of the Agri-Corp project. Have fun!

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Old 01-18-2006, 07:14 PM   #8
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I would like a cape in KotOR3.

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That happen on the.. the.. that armor with a cape and a skirt in TSL, I forgot what it is called, but it has a blue cape. The cape doesn't fly but rolls over limply when you move. I like that armor alot; it's Blue!


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Old 01-18-2006, 07:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
If you want armored Jedi gear, go wear the Zeishon Sha and Jal Shey stuff. They already fit what you seem to want.
*** looks around *** Uhh, you talkin' to me?

Actually no, these armors don't fit what I want. While I like the fact that OE included some non-force restricted armor suits like the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey ones you refer to, I believe I've already pointed out a mod in post #3 of this thread that is more along the lines of what I would really like. Simply put, robes with light armor underneath. I'm thinking this parallels with rangers wearing leather armor underneath a forest cloak, affording a high degree of mobility and flexibility yet more protection than the cloak (a.k.a. robes) by itself. Besides the fact that IMO it just looks way cool.


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Old 01-18-2006, 08:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
I think the Jedi Council dropped you off on Bandomeer, in the middle of the Agri-Corp project. Have fun!
What the ****!!! Those stupid moronic idiots! I thought they sent me to Dantooine! Grrrhh...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
*** looks around *** Uhh, you talkin' to me?
More to everyone in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I believe I've already pointed out a mod in post #3 of this thread that is more along the lines of what I would really like. Simply put, robes with light armor underneath. I'm thinking this parallels with rangers wearing leather armor underneath a forest cloak, affording a high degree of mobility and flexibility yet more protection than the cloak (a.k.a. robes) by itself.
But what I said still stands- it is no longer a Robe. It is light armor with a cape. In fact, it still is similar to the armors I mentioned, if you think about it. It has a robe/cloak/skirt, whatever, connected to a lightly armored suit. So there is no Robe/Armor combination like you seem to want.
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Old 01-18-2006, 10:39 PM   #11
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Robes and armour at the same time is a bad idea. As Rob pointed out, if you want to wear non-restrictive armour, then wear the Zeison-sha armour.


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Old 01-19-2006, 10:43 AM   #12
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What is the pupose of armor?
To increase the defense rating, correct?

The trade off for increased defense is that some of your force abilities are negated. Zeison-Sha Jedi robes are a great way to raise your defense rating while maintaining your force capabilities. Unfortunately, they are very ugly. I hardly use them.

Jal-Shey robes are similar in that they don't restrict force capabilities but provide somewhat adequate protection. Unfortunately, these are ugly also. These two robes are also upgradeable to a point to make them a bit more effective. If you can stand the sight of them.

I was really dissapointed when I aquired Darth Bandon's armor and was force power restricted. It would be really sweet to aquire the armor/robes, and weapons of a fallen opponent though. I really wanted to wear Nihilus' mask.


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Old 01-19-2006, 11:01 AM   #13
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I don't like them either so I guess that's two for us. I use robes anyway.

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Old 01-19-2006, 08:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-QelDroma
More to everyone in general.
OK. Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-QelDroma
But what I said still stands- it is no longer a Robe. It is light armor with a cape. In fact, it still is similar to the armors I mentioned, if you think about it. It has a robe/cloak/skirt, whatever, connected to a lightly armored suit. So there is no Robe/Armor combination like you seem to want.
Have you checked out my link to Colma Adawin's mod in post #3 of this thread? Those battle robes look like Jedi robes to me, not a cape. When I used the word parallel it was meant to draw a similarity, not say they would be exactly the same. Instead of just the regular Jedi tunic underneath the robes they have an armored vest but other than that I think the outfit looks fairly Jedi-like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Robes and armour at the same time is a bad idea. As Rob pointed out, if you want to wear non-restrictive armour, then wear the Zeison-sha armour.
IYO, not mine. I believe I've made it abundantly clear in this thread that I like the idea of light armor (or armored vest if you will) underneath Jedi robes. I don't know where you and Rob get off on telling those of us who like the armored robes to just deal with it and wear Zeison Sha or Jal Shey armor. Have you somehow missed the whole purpose behind modding? What if I told you, Darth Windu, that violet lightsabers is a bad idea and to use green or blue ones instead? Would you like that? I'm somewhat surprised at your temerity seeing as you're what I consider a forum veteran. I guess I should read more of your posts to see if I should have been surprised or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus Q'ol
I was really dissapointed when I aquired Darth Bandon's armor and was force power restricted. It would be really sweet to aquire the armor/robes, and weapons of a fallen opponent though. I really wanted to wear Nihilus' mask.
Yeah, I was disappointed too. Not only that it had the force power restrictions of normal armor but that when I equipped my PC with it he didn't look the same as Bandon did when he wore it.


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Old 01-19-2006, 09:00 PM   #15
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Calm down Hai Wan. You're acting like he openly insulted you. He never said deal with it either. Just that the Zeison Sha stuff is a good substitute for now.


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Old 01-19-2006, 11:13 PM   #16
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Perhaps you're right, Clone L68362. But you're not helping matters...

From my perspective there is a big difference between "___ is a bad idea" and "I think ___ is a bad idea" If someone has an opposing opinion to mine I strive to respect that. I will argue my point but if someone doesn't see it my way then I accept their decision as their right and prerogative. But it bothers me when people make statements as if what they say is absolute truth. Statements like that don't sit well with me (as if you couldn't tell already)

I get that Rob Qel-Droma and Darth Windu poo-poo the robes+armor idea. Obviously I won't be asking them to make any robes+armor mods for me as I believe that would be a waste of my time. But it seems to me like neither took the time to consider my argument that the robes+armor concept is feasible and in fact has already been done. I guess that is what really irks me. If they had come back and said, "Yeah, I checked that out but I still don't like it" then it would have been end of argument for me.


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Old 01-19-2006, 11:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I don't know where you and Rob get off on telling those of us who like the armored robes to just deal with it and wear Zeison Sha or Jal Shey armor. Have you somehow missed the whole purpose behind modding? What if I told you, Darth Windu, that violet lightsabers is a bad idea and to use green or blue ones instead? Would you like that?
Clone is right: CALM DOWN, I wasn't insulting you, and I wasn't insulting anybody. But now you have gotten me a bit ticked off with what you have said.

For one, I never said "deal with it." And I am a bit annoyed at your "I don't get where DW and you can get off telling us to deal with it when we like the armored robes." I have said this before- THERE ARE NO ARMORED ROBES, unless you count the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey Armor, which is really light armor with a cape. Which is why I said that you should stick with those armors since they seem to fit what you want.

And that is just it- they are no longer considered "Jedi Robes" if they are armor, otherwise, just like I said before (I'm repeating myself) they are some kind of armored superman costume.

I don't have a problem with ZS/JS stuff, I have a problem with these so-called "armored robes", for my above reasons. I also have a problem with all these layers, which I explained my reasons for above, also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
ut it seems to me like neither took the time to consider my argument that the robes+armor concept is feasible and in fact has already been done. I guess that is what really irks me. If they had come back and said, "Yeah, I checked that out but I still don't like it" then it would have been end of argument for me.
*ahem* Those are MODS. Just that, GAME MODIFICATIONS. They have nothing to do with what would actually make sense and fit in the game. You could make a mod that made guantlets turn you into a storm beast (I've seen one). But does that mean that they would be feasible, and "already done"? No, they wouldn't.

Don't start acting like you know what we did and what is going through our minds, and we are just ignoring your "evidence"; it was irrelevant. Mods can do all sorts of things, many of which make no sense and do not fit into Star Wars. So the fact the somone has made a mod for it means nothing, since mods can and have done crazy things which really aren't "realistic" in the SW sense, or are no longer really what you are talking about.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:56 AM   #18
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OK. I'm calm. At least I feel like you're paying somewhat closer attention now. It is unfortunate that my getting ticked off and in turn ticking other thread contributors off is what it took to get here but here we are now.

So let me get this straight RobQel-Droma. You believe that once the tunic/shirt is replaced with a light armor vest or suit underneath Jedi Robes then this no longer constitutes Jedi Robes, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
THERE ARE NO ARMORED ROBES, unless you count the Zeison Sha and Jal Shey Armor, which is really light armor with a cape. Which is why I said that you should stick with those armors since they seem to fit what you want.
Umm.. you must be speaking to CadmiumRED or someone else on this thread, right? I believe I've already stated that while I like the Zeison Sha/Jal Shey armors they aren't what I really want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
They (the armored robes) have nothing to do with what would actually make sense and fit in the game.
I wholeheartedly, but respectfully, disagree. I believe that this concept is quite feasible, makes great sense to me and I like it. However I fully understand that you are diametrically opposed to this. So be it.


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Old 01-20-2006, 01:28 AM   #19
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If you all are talking D20 Rules wise, Armored Robes that would allow the use of Force Powers are possible... sort of a sci-fi equivelant of Elven Chainmail.

So we got the ugly Zeison Sha and Jal Shey model in TSL, if they exist so can other ones as well. They are basically Armored Robes, even though the game gave us an ugly skirted light armor model for them they are supposed to be, at their core, Armored Robes. Hence why they allow the use of Force Powers, but the other basic armors do not.

Just my 2 cents!


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Old 01-20-2006, 01:59 AM   #20
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*GAAAGHH*
Redhawke, I was sure you were going to go RP agro on this
What attributes would need to be modified to balance my multi-layer suggestion, to make it all d20ish?

@Rob, If I want more protection or simply a different look, It's my choice to wear all that (if I was in SW) and as for it being hot, depending on the materials and equipment contained in the suits it would provide much superior environment control than a jedi robe.

So, a combat suit with a jedi robe over it has worse flexibility than Mandalorian armor?

The JS and ZS don't fit what I want (or what CRed originally posted, "armor and"), they aren't armor with a robe over it.

@Windu, the point isn't always to wear non-restrictive armor (if you're talking about force restriction, you're not always a jedi and your party isn't always jedi)

@Cygnus, Another purpose of the armor is to provide a platform for support systems (regeneration), more layers, more upgrade room, movement will be restricted, but this will be compensated for by having more in-armor gadgetry than Q-branch.


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Old 01-20-2006, 10:04 AM   #21
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Yeah REDJOHNNYMIKE, I would enjoy the support systems that would allow for upgrages and such. I wouldn't even mind the restrictive movement because of the compensation of in-armor goodies. (gimme, gimme, gimme).

But, if it's as ugly as the Jal-Shey or Zeison-Sha armor, what T'wilek dancer is gonna want to talk to me?


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Old 01-20-2006, 10:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I wholeheartedly, but respectfully, disagree. I believe that this concept is quite feasible, makes great sense to me and I like it. However I fully understand that you are diametrically opposed to this. So be it.
I realize you like it- but I just don't see that it is feasible. Once you put armor "under" robes, you have force power restrictions, movement restrictions, etc. It becomes more trouble than what it is worth to try and have all these different layers. Combine Jedi Robes, however light, with light armor, and it gets to be pretty bulky, and restricting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDJOHNNYMIKE
So, a combat suit with a jedi robe over it has worse flexibility than Mandalorian armor?

The JS and ZS don't fit what I want (or what CRed originally posted, "armor and"), they aren't armor with a robe over it.
Try this: get a set of medieval armor, put it on, and wear a bunch of clothes and blankets (robes) over it. Now try to move (or just imagine). Having multiple layers is not a good idea, since it does not make sense when you have those kind of combinations. To have it make more sense, you get all the restrictions I talked about earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
So let me get this straight RobQel-Droma. You believe that once the tunic/shirt is replaced with a light armor vest or suit underneath Jedi Robes then this no longer constitutes Jedi Robes, right?
Yes. Once you have armor all mixed up with the original robes, it is no longer a regular plain Jedi Robe. I never said you wanted the ZS/JS armor, I was just saying that that type of armor was probably the closest you will get to what you want. Ok, so instead of talking about this "layer" idea, which I have already explained my reasons for not liking it above, why not try and get some other ZS/JS-like armors that have a better look?
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:17 AM   #23
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A voice of reason, yes. I can see Rob's point on the resrictions. As I said before, I tend to stick to Jedi robes. I thought they looked cool and forced me to think defensively when dealing with multiple enemies.

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Old 01-21-2006, 01:35 AM   #24
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@Rob, Some knights did wear clothing over their armor, wether to show their personal symbols, distinguish between combatants, etc.
And the situation you describe is the most extreme (the equivalent to wearing Revan's Robes over Mandalore's suit) you could easily layer a jedi robe over light armor,
light armor (going by the skins and models) is pretty much a bulletproof vest over heavy duty clothes (think police) A jedi robe over that wouldn't add that much restriction.
And those restrictions are offset by bonuses unique to each item and your chosen upgrades.


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Old 01-21-2006, 03:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Try this: get a set of medieval armor, put it on, and wear a bunch of clothes and blankets (robes) over it. Now try to move (or just imagine). Having multiple layers is not a good idea, since it does not make sense when you have those kind of combinations. To have it make more sense, you get all the restrictions I talked about earlier.
Actually your comparison made no sense. Under the plates, they often wear chain mail and under that some sort of light shirt.
By the way, those things are actually insanely flexible. Well, not insanely, but a lot more then you think.

This is not a bad idea. I think some people focus too much on the possible combination of stats between the armor and the robe, which doesn't have to even exist.
It could be nothing more the aesthetic.

The other very feasible possibility is two different slots, one for armor, one for cloak. This actually would fulfil many people's demand.
You could then have the Jedi Robe without the cloak without creating a new type of armor and have regular armor with a cloak.

Rob- How is the layer system less realistic then what we currently have? To be realistic, I'd have to run naked without any kind of armor on Tatooine because it's too hot. At least with layers, I'd actually be able to remove my bigger armor to cope with the heat, but I won't, because it's a game and I can't feel the heat
Also, too complicated? I don't think adding one armor slot will make things complicated.
Lastly, what do you think crusaders and arabs wore when they fought in the harsh heat of the middle-east? Light silk shirts?


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Old 01-21-2006, 04:55 AM   #26
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Well, in most Starwars stories/films, people wear some kind of extra protection over their robes.
For Example: Anakin wears a leather band over his upper tunic. Not only does it look cool, i bet it would give some extra protection. Also, Obi Wan wears a mixture of Clone Trooper armor and Jedi Robes, for it's protection in the battle of Mullinist (Clone Wars cartoon). I think adding such robes would be very cool, and give your more the feeling of being a 'general.'

They should go with some penalties though. Force should be usable, since it's ridiculous someone would lose all his force powers because he/she wears an other armor. Penalties on movement speed and dexternity could be an idea...

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Old 01-21-2006, 03:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
Well, in most Starwars stories/films, people wear some kind of extra protection over their robes.
For Example: Anakin wears a leather band over his upper tunic.
He doesn't actually wear anything else than other Jedi wear. That "leather band" was just a part of the regular Jedi Robes, except made of synthetic material to offer more protection. Being able to change/wear different materials on your robes might be a good idea, but that really isn't what this is about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Actually your comparison made no sense. Under the plates, they often wear chain mail and under that some sort of light shirt.
By the way, those things are actually insanely flexible. Well, not insanely, but a lot more then you think.
Sorry, probably not the best example. I'm just saying that layers present a lot of difficulties with movement, force powers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
The other very feasible possibility is two different slots, one for armor, one for cloak. This actually would fulfil many people's demand.
You could then have the Jedi Robe without the cloak without creating a new type of armor and have regular armor with a cloak.

Rob- How is the layer system less realistic then what we currently have?
Here is what I am trying to say. Jedi Robes have no armor, that goes against what a Jedi Robe is made for. Armor with a cloak doesn't make it Jedi Robes, it is just a different armor. You guys keep talking about having layers with a Jedi Robe and a Light armor, that would seriously complicate things:

For one, think about all the different possible complications that one could put in all these different slots. Would they all make your character have unique looks depending on the combination? You would almost double or triple the amount of appearances that your character would be able to have. It would also complicate things because now their is two-three clothing spots, and to make it at all feasible, you would have to keep in mind all the different bonuses and penalties.

A cloak, one connected to some kind of light armor, is not some all powerful object that causes the armor to be "Jedi Robes", and therefore not force-restricting. This would make the armor even more force power restricting, and it would ultimately be an absolute pain to try and fight with it. Why not just wear heavy armor?

Not only that, you don't need all this to have these "armored robes." As I said before, you guys are making it waaaay too complicated. I am fine with having ZS/JS armor, or that stuff that you wanted Hai Wan: Jedi Robe-like armor, some kind of "Jedi Armor" that has, say, a light chest plate, guantlets, and so on. You don't have to have these ridiculous "layers" to have that. Just make some more armor types, that in bonuses and type are basically the ZS/JS stuff, but look more like what you want. Wouldn't that be better than adding all this unnecessary stuff?
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Old 01-21-2006, 03:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Here is what I am trying to say. Jedi Robes have no armor, that goes against what a Jedi Robe is made for. Armor with a cloak doesn't make it Jedi Robes, it is just a different armor. You guys keep talking about having layers with a Jedi Robe and a Light armor, that would seriously complicate things:
I think you misunderstand. All I can see from Hai Wan's example is that he wants some sort of ZS/JS but good looking and ressembling a Jedi Robe. Basically, a non-force restricting armor with a Jedi Cloak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
For one, think about all the different possible complications that one could put in all these different slots. Would they all make your character have unique looks depending on the combination? You would almost double or triple the amount of appearances that your character would be able to have.
Inherently bad because? You've just said what a lot of people wanted to hear. Better clothing customization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
It would also complicate things because now their is two-three clothing spots, and to make it at all feasible, you would have to keep in mind all the different bonuses and penalties.
Which is bad in an RPG? That's actually what you should be doing in an RPG. Keeping penalties and bonuses in mind. Besides, on your character screens, you have a quite easy to understand summary of the different bonuses and penalties.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
A cloak, one connected to some kind of light armor, is not some all powerful object that causes the armor to be "Jedi Robes", and therefore not force-restricting. This would make the armor even more force power restricting, and it would ultimately be an absolute pain to try and fight with it. Why not just wear heavy armor?
Of course not, but one could say the same about the ZS/JS armors. Yet, they're all powerful objects and you have stated you were ok with those.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Not only that, you don't need all this to have these "armored robes." As I said before, you guys are making it waaaay too complicated. I am fine with having ZS/JS armor, or that stuff that you wanted Hai Wan: Jedi Robe-like armor, some kind of "Jedi Armor" that has, say, a light chest plate, guantlets, and so on. You don't have to have these ridiculous "layers" to have that. Just make some more armor types, that in bonuses and type are basically the ZS/JS stuff, but look more like what you want. Wouldn't that be better than adding all this unnecessary stuff?
Actually, your claims of complications make no sense. In fact, many RPGs do use many armor slots with great success.

I think you focus too much on the thought that an additionnal layer of clothing means more complication. Then I ask, where is actually the complication? Yes, you'd have to get a cloak to go with your armor and put it in your cloak slot. That's it.
How is it complicated? It doesn't even have to be a special Force cloak or anything.

I think your claims of overcomplication are based on absolutely nothing. Having different clothing layers is nothing new, increases customization and is very easily doable.


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Old 01-21-2006, 09:07 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Yes. Once you have armor all mixed up with the original robes, it is no longer a regular plain Jedi Robe.
Congratulations to us! We are finally communicating.

OK. I can see the whole "you can't call it a Jedi Robe if it has armor" concept. I think calling it something like Jedi Battle Robes would introduce a degree of separation that should be sufficient to distinguish from the classic Jedi Robe. In fact that is what Colma Adawin calls his mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Combine Jedi Robes, however light, with light armor, and it gets to be pretty bulky, and restricting.
I don't see this at all. In KotOR and TSL you equip the PC and NPC's with armor and they fight in it. Adding a Jedi cloak to the mix shouldn't really do anything at all in the way of restriction, except maybe get in the way sometimes with all their swishing around. If we're talking downright realism here then IMO Jedi shouldn't be fighting in the style of robes shown in TSL to begin with. But of course most like the way TSL robes look more than the KotOR robes. I know I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
All I can see from Hai Wan's example is that he wants some sort of ZS/JS but good looking and ressembling a Jedi Robe. Basically, a non-force restricting armor with a Jedi Cloak.
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.
I envision having the two regular armor upgrade slots but no upgrade slots for the robe/cloak itself but the armor having some level of energy resistance built into it in consideration of lightsaber dueling and blaster attacks. And I'm not thinking medium or heavy armor for this (sorry REDJOHNNYMIKE). This definitely would have to remain light class armor or it loses realism for me. But maybe a max dexterity bonus of +6 or something like that but with no force restrictions. I really thought the +4 DEX bonus limit on the JS/ZS armor was a bit too restrictive.

So yeah CadmiumRED, I'm with you on this. If this battle robes concept made it into the next KotOR that would be suh-weet indeed! The devs did it with the force pike in TSL, right? Maybe, just maybe, they will do it here too.


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Old 01-22-2006, 02:43 AM   #30
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One thing I'd like to see, that would decrease the need for a model of every outfit variation....seperate physics based clothes/robes (like on your G.I. Joe dolls), you could have a base model for the clothing/underwear layers, and attach a seperate robe/armor model to it (clipping would be a project) if you used a sizing system where medium robes cover light armor, heavy robes cover medium armor this could work, this would also make possible one of my previous suggestions about degradeable armor.

Robes would still retain their slots, so you can swap robes and or armor for different attributes, since all moddable items retain their upgrades (wether or not you have them equipped

Maybe force restriction should be dropped entirely, Vader can choke you through a life support suit, while fighting you with a saber, after suffering critical injuries, if armor cuts your connection to the force then a helmet which both PC's and Vader use would decrease it drastically, not to mention hampering the force sight power.
And even if armor were to be a force "insulator" if it actually does "flow through living things" you could use the the force in your body internal to the suit to "force heal" yourself, thereby providing at least one exception to the restriction rule.
I don't think you can look at it as detaching a load from a circuit and cutting current through it, otherwise the second any jedi put on armor they would start to experience what exile did. Also, why can you feel the force through a robe and not the clothing worn with armor, body armor doesn't cover you entirely.
IMHO armor restrictions should apply more to movement speed and actual combat dexterity than force connection.

Why can't I wear Armor, or a Jedi robe, or a robe over armor, or armored robes, or whatever I want?

I'm starting to suspect that Rob might be an OE modeler


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Old 01-22-2006, 03:14 AM   #31
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Lightbulb

^^^^
Well, about the 'No Force Powers in armor' rules, see... this is where you get holdovers from universal RPG systems, like D20.

In the core D&D Fantasy version armor gets in the way of Magic Users being able to cast their spells, it is an attempt to limit a 'Spell Caster' character somewhat for the sake of game balance.

Though there are armors like Elvish Chainmail that Magic users can wear to play an Armored Mage, the Zal Shey suits were added into TSL for this exact same reason.

Now when that system is adapted to sci-fi, where armors work differently, and so does the 'Magic' instead of having to adapt rules to the genre, they fit the genre to the rules, a common practice BTW... hence The Force is handled exactly like Magic, and Armor is as it is in the Fantasy setting, so there are as little changes as possible so people who have played one game using that system will adapt easily to the new game.

Many people lament that they want a system "exactly" befitting the movies, this just isn't possible, you have to nerf and re-arrange things from the source material to make a system playable and balanced.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just what was part of the process to create the RPG game system itself...


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Old 01-22-2006, 03:37 AM   #32
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It just doesn't seem right, there should be restrictions from heavier armor, but it shouldn't affect the force (unless it is designed to block the force, I know there was a mask that was similar in concept)


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Old 01-22-2006, 03:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDJOHNNYMIKE
It just doesn't seem right, there should be restrictions from heavier armor, but it shouldn't affect the force (unless it is designed to block the force, I know there was a mask that was similar in concept)
It is a correct rule according to the rules of that game system... so this part will not be changed, it is needed for game balance, simple as that.

Edit: Besides it is a simple 2da edit to remove it anyway!


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Old 01-23-2006, 11:54 AM   #34
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You know, this whole thing about armour and robes can depress a person but as I've stated before I prefer robes for the PC and when I jedified my NPCs I gave them robes too. I'm not saying that armour is bad, quite the opposite. I think it is quite useful if you look at the dexterity and defense bonus and attack modifiers. To have armour with a cloak doesn't sound right to me, in fact I looked at the JalShay armour and thought it looked ugly. I would probably have been more impressed if it looked more samurai-like if that was what the devs were attempting.

@Rob How's Bandomeer?

@RedHawke, your mod for TSL's Exile's general uniform pack is way cool!


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Old 01-23-2006, 10:44 PM   #35
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I agree with JediMaster12, I never knew the debate over robes or armor would be so heated. Everyone take a breath and repeat after me,

"There is no emotion, there is peace."

Everyone feel better?

Now, combining armor and robes together is not a new idea for Star Wars. If anyone watched Clone Wars V2, you will notice that both Anakin and Obi-Wan wear robes with some armor pieces incorporated in the robes. Something similar to those would be nice in kotor3.

sidenote: Obi-Wan wore clone armor in V1 and it looked bada$$!!!


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Old 01-24-2006, 02:04 PM   #36
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Yes I use that first part of the Jedi Code to calm myself. Thank you Steve-O-Kreesh.
As I've said before, in my badly typed previous post, armour isn't a bad thing. I've never seen Clone Wars V2 or V2 so I'll take your word on that. I think what really gets people is the D20 engine rules and restrictions. Heck maybe they could improve on the appearance of the Jal-Shey armour and make it look more appealing.

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Old 01-25-2006, 09:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadmiumRED
Would it be possible if armor and robes can be worn at the same time? Look at Ulic Qel-Droma before he was a Sith, he wore armor/robes on him, and he looked REALLY cool. Maybe it might not be for KOTOR III, but I'd love to see this happen in future KOTOR games. What do you all think of this idea?
Kinda like Obi-Wan's armor in the Clone Wars cartoons.


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Old 01-26-2006, 04:03 PM   #38
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^I don't exactly feel that a Clone Wars cartoon has much relevance on this, though. Just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Actually your comparison made no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Actually, your claims of complications make no sense.
Has anything I've said made any sense? It made sense to me, actually. I don't really care if other RPGs do this kind of thing, KOTOR hasn't so far. It doesn't make sense to completely change the clothing part.

I feel like the layer thing should be in another thread. It has nothing to do with "Jedi Battle Robes."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Inherently bad because? You've just said what a lot of people wanted to hear. Better clothing customization.
At the expense of the story? Do you want another TSL? Not that it was a bad game, but do you want to have the devs spend all this time incorporating this into K3, at having a crappy and unfinished story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I think you focus too much on the thought that an additionnal layer of clothing means more complication. Then I ask, where is actually the complication? Yes, you'd have to get a cloak to go with your armor and put it in your cloak slot. That's it.
How is it complicated? It doesn't even have to be a special Force cloak or anything.

I think your claims of overcomplication are based on absolutely nothing. Having different clothing layers is nothing new, increases customization and is very easily doable.
*sigh* But WHY? Why are you not content with an armor with the same basic stats as the ZS/JS armor, yet looking better? You don't even have to have one layer for a cloak, and another for armor; Why not just combine them? I wasn't saying that a cloak with armor was bad, I was talking about this "wearing armor under full Jedi Robes." If you have armor with a cloak, why not just create some new armors? Don't go in this round-about way to get it.

I think I've pretty much stated all my views and opinions. I'm not going to argue with all this "actually, your whatever made no sense." If you don't understand what I am trying to say, I can't do anything about it. It's not like we are going to change the game.
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Has anything I've said made any sense? It made sense to me, actually. I don't really care if other RPGs do this kind of thing, KOTOR hasn't so far. It doesn't make sense to completely change the clothing part.
Doesn't completely change everything. Only adds to it actually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
At the expense of the story? Do you want another TSL? Not that it was a bad game, but do you want to have the devs spend all this time incorporating this into K3, at having a crappy and unfinished story?
You're right. That is why adding vehicle transportation is very bad...



Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
*sigh* But WHY? Why are you not content with an armor with the same basic stats as the ZS/JS armor, yet looking better?
Because I'd like to create my own clothing combinations?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
You don't even have to have one layer for a cloak, and another for armor; Why not just combine them? I wasn't saying that a cloak with armor was bad, I was talking about this "wearing armor under full Jedi Robes." If you have armor with a cloak, why not just create some new armors? Don't go in this round-about way to get it.
That's because it might not turn out good looking. Personnal combinations of cloaks and armor would increase replayability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I think I've pretty much stated all my views and opinions. I'm not going to argue with all this "actually, your whatever made no sense." If you don't understand what I am trying to say, I can't do anything about it. It's not like we are going to change the game.
Actually, when I used that, it really doesn't make sense since you base your arguments on...errr pretty baseless accusations of overcomplication of the armor/clothing system.

Also, I'd advise you to re-read a whole post before quoting me totally out of context.


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Old 01-27-2006, 01:21 AM   #40
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@RQD, So it is established in SW and RPGs, and it can't be applied to Kotor just because it hasn't yet???
For KIII maybe they'll go back and fix their greivous mistakes such as "influence" or expanded item creation/upgrades

"I feel like the layer thing should be in another thread. It has nothing to do with "Jedi Battle Robes."___RQD

"Would it be possible if armor and robes can be worn at the same time?"___CadmiumR, thread topic.

Layering of clothing is a legitimate way of wearing multiple pieces of clothing at the same time

"at the expense of the story"

I'm confused...When did all the writers start getting forced into modeling???
The story wasn't crappy, it was simply unfinished, given time (LA rushed it, remember?) the story would've been completed and possibly better features added.
The problem isn't with having to choose between story or gameplay, the problem is that the developer wasn't given enough time to implement all plans.

"content...ZS/JS"

I'm in agreement with LIAYD's response, it's the same reason I don't want to go into a shop and have all my options limited to sabers with locked crystals, an example....
I find three armor sets in the first level...
1. Your way: I find one light combat suit with a light robe over it, one heavy armor with a jedi robe, and one jedi master robe.
I have three options when I'm considering which items affect my characters strengths and weaknesses.
2. Multi-Layering: I find A. one light combat suit with B. one light robe, C. one heavy armor with D. one jedi robe, and E. one master robe.
My options...
AB
AD
AE
CB
CD
CE

Over time I gain more flexibility then I would've ever dreamed of using one-piece suits.


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