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Old 01-27-2006, 06:16 PM   #41
RobQel-Droma
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^I'm not saying that any new improvements are not good. I just don't like this idea, and think that the clothing options are good as they are without trying to implement this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDJOHNNYMIKE
I'm confused...When did all the writers start getting forced into modeling???
The story wasn't crappy, it was simply unfinished, given time (LA rushed it, remember?) the story would've been completed and possibly better features added.
Say it however you want. All right, unfinished story, that is really what I meant by "crappy." But you still stated the problem- time. How long is the company going to get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I don't see this at all. In KotOR and TSL you equip the PC and NPC's with armor and they fight in it. Adding a Jedi cloak to the mix shouldn't really do anything at all in the way of restriction
Argh.... I feel like we are talking in two different languages here. I'll try and communicate what I mean- I am not talking about cloak+armor, I am talking about robes+armor. I got the impression you meant having armor under full Jedi Robes. I don't have a problem with light armor with a cape; It's essentially ZS/JS stuff.

But why do you need layers to do this? What is the point of attaching a cloak to heavy armor? It isn't going to do anything, it doesn't make it not have force power restrictions, it just means you have a blanket hanging off your shoulders and swishing around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Your right. Thats why adding Vehicle Transportation is a bad idea
Right. Like that compares in scale anywhere close to this. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing...
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Argh.... I feel like we are talking in two different languages here.
Uh-oh. That's not good. I often wonder why it's so hard for people to clearly communicate with each other. Haven't come up with an all-encompassing reason though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I'll try and communicate what I mean- I am not talking about cloak+armor, I am talking about robes+armor. I got the impression you meant having armor under full Jedi Robes. I don't have a problem with light armor with a cape; It's essentially ZS/JS stuff.
If I understand you correctly I think we're just tripping over the choice of words here and probably don't have much in the way of disagreement at this point. I could be wrong though.

Please allow me to clarify. As I see it, the Jedi Robe as depicted in TSL has at least two layers, the outer layer (cloak w/ hood, hereafter simply referred to as cloak) and the inner layer (tunic/pants). While I normally don't like to support my KotOR arguments with examples from the movies, I think (since the TSL robes seem to have been patterned after the ones in the movies) the SW prequels demonstrate this two-layer concept when Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gonn Jinn, and Darth Maul shed their outer layer (cloak) before they earnestly engage in lightsaber combat, leaving them with just the tunic/pants.
So what I would like to see is a variation of this Jedi robe, calling it something besides Jedi Robes if you want, where the inner layer of tunic and pants is replaced with a light armored vest, gauntlets, and greaves. But the outer layer (cloak) would still be worn over it since the cloak is readily identified with the Jedi. The JS/ZS armors really don't offer that sort of look.

You seem to be struggling with the idea of layers but I submit that Jedi Robes are already "layered" as they are in game. It's just the game doesn't allow upgrades to the outer layer (cloak). Even with the Jedi Battle Robes concept I think it only logical that the user would still be wearing pants and an undershirt underneath the light armor. So at that point it would be three layers, right? I just think that the only upgradeable part of the outfit should be the armor itself. So when I use the term armor+robes I should instead say armor+cloak as the cloak is what you seem to associate with the outer layer. I was thinking that cloak and robes were interchangeable terms but I see that you don't look at it that way. This is just a matter of semantics.

As far as the multiple layers of stuff that REDJOHNNYMIKE and LIAYD refer to I think they already exist to a large extent. But in my view those things are already represented by the gloves, belt, headgear, etc. I really don't want to get down to managing all the clothing layers as I felt I spent too much time as it was with the various upgrades in TSL trying to figure out what items I could use what upgrades on. Adding more things to manage doesn't really appeal to me at this point.


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Old 01-27-2006, 09:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Right. Like that compares in scale anywhere close to this. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing...
It has. You came up with the time consumption for a concept that could take away precious developper time argument. It only shows you being inconsistent in your positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
At the expense of the story? Do you want another TSL? Not that it was a bad game, but do you want to have the devs spend all this time incorporating this into K3, at having a crappy and unfinished story?
An easy "get-out-of-trouble" argument. It might work on the random novie forummite but not on me. It seems to be used as an instant win argument, preying on the feelings of resentment towards TSL's unfinished stoy and plotholes.
It goes around the actual argument and ends up doing nothing.
Why?
That argument has many flaws. First, it assumes that the developpers will be crunched on time, which might not be the case.
Second, it assumes that they'll spend a humongous amount of time on a new clothing/armor system at the expense of everything else. A rather false assumption as the time they'd spend on it wouldn't be much more then the time they'd spend on facial customization, which is wildly popular.
Finally, it simply stumbles on every possible gameplay amelioration. In other words, any good gameplay elements that can be added gets nuked because there's "not enough time". Basically, instead of being an actual video game with good gameplay, that argument usually wants to make it a text RPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I really don't want to get down to managing all the clothing layers as I felt I spent too much time as it was with the various upgrades in TSL trying to figure out what items I could use what upgrades on. Adding more things to manage doesn't really appeal to me at this point.
Different layers doesn't mean more upgrades for each layers. After all, armbands, headgear and belts didn't have upgrades.
Additionnal layers could have no upgrade possibilities.

Add to that, with different layers, you could have a multitude of combos possible. I know a lot of people would like to have a Jedi tunic in the game. It would introduce the tunic without having to create a seperate armor type or look.

I think the terms "layers" can get people confused and scared for who knows what. It's not supposed to be harder then putting an item on.
After all, one of the core concepts of the RPG is to customize your character.
It's actually one of the focus and normally isn't much more confusing or harder then a single armor slot.


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Old 01-27-2006, 11:41 PM   #44
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IMHO each seperate equipable item should be upgradeable, even if that means weakening the upgrades such as power cells to balance the larger number of them.

With the exception of some larger and boss battles I always found item customization to be more entertaining than the actual combat, If I can go from spending an hour on my party's armor loadout to a well spent two hours then I'm all for it.


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Old 01-28-2006, 01:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
It has. You came up with the time consumption for a concept that could take away precious developper time argument. It only shows you being inconsistent in your positions.
Maybe I am misunderstanding (wouldn't be the first time in this thread), but I thought you wanted another clothing spot for a cloak of certain design. If so, say you have about six different cloaks- combine that to however many armors there are in the whole game. You just multiplied the amount of armor looks by six.

Now compare that to Vehicle Transportation. They really already did this, kind of, with swoop racing. Now just apply that to the other areas, change it a bit, and you have what I suggested. Sorry, but it just looks to me that VT pales in comparison to this layer idea.

But I'm not going to argue about which idea is the best, and most worth it. We were talking about layers. And a few questions about this: Would this work on all armors? I don't know about you, but I would puke if I saw a Jedi cloak hooked onto that red Bonadon armor that Carth wears in TSL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
An easy "get-out-of-trouble" argument. It might work on the random novie forummite but not on me. It seems to be used as an instant win argument, preying on the feelings of resentment towards TSL's unfinished stoy and plotholes.
Sorry, Master Forumite. I was not "nuking" this idea because "there is not enough time." I was talking about the priority level on this. And maybe your right, maybe it really has no point to the argument. I was trying to point out the complexity and amount of what will be changed. Like Hai Wan said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hai Wan
I really don't want to get down to managing all the clothing layers as I felt I spent too much time as it was with the various upgrades in TSL trying to figure out what items I could use what upgrades on. Adding more things to manage doesn't really appeal to me at this point.
LIAYD, you might want to read his post again. He was not saying that it would be complicated because of the upgrades for each layer. Even if there wasn't, it would be very complex like he said. It is already hard enough to go through all the different armors and upgrades, and figure out which one is upgraded with what- now you are adding other clothing spots that we have to keep track of also.

You seem to think this is adding. It isn't "adding", it is "changing." You are changing the clothing part of the game into something a bit more complex. A few people obviously don't want this to change; it obviously has done well for the past few games, and it doesn't need to be drastically changed like this into something totally different and complex. We need "change," yeah, but not necessarily the key parts of the game.
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Maybe I am misunderstanding (wouldn't be the first time in this thread), but I thought you wanted another clothing spot for a cloak of certain design. If so, say you have about six different cloaks- combine that to however many armors there are in the whole game. You just multiplied the amount of armor looks by six.
Indeed. Which means more customization and as far as I know, there's nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Now compare that to Vehicle Transportation. They really already did this, kind of, with swoop racing. Now just apply that to the other areas, change it a bit, and you have what I suggested. Sorry, but it just looks to me that VT pales in comparison to this layer idea.
But dude! It's so much work! Developper time man!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
But I'm not going to argue about which idea is the best, and most worth it. We were talking about layers. And a few questions about this: Would this work on all armors? I don't know about you, but I would puke if I saw a Jedi cloak hooked onto that red Bonadon armor that Carth wears in TSL.
Then don't put a cloak on that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Sorry, Master Forumite. I was not "nuking" this idea because "there is not enough time." I was talking about the priority level on this. And maybe your right, maybe it really has no point to the argument. I was trying to point out the complexity and amount of what will be changed.
And have not yet given a good logical argument as to how it would be actually complex.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
LIAYD, you might want to read his post again. He was not saying that it would be complicated because of the upgrades for each layer. Even if there wasn't, it would be very complex like he said. It is already hard enough to go through all the different armors and upgrades, and figure out which one is upgraded with what- now you are adding other clothing spots that we have to keep track of also.
And that's supposed to be insanely complex how?
If one more slot can make it very complex then perhaps we should remove armor all together. I mean, let the developpers decide my character's clothing, so much hassle gone.

No, it is not a lot more complex, it isn't that harder to keep track off. Afterall, what is the point of an RPG if you do not take care of your character? Sure, going through the story but like I pointed out, why not just make a text RPG then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
You seem to think this is adding. It isn't "adding", it is "changing." You are changing the clothing part of the game into something a bit more complex.
Exactly. Keywords: a bit more. It also does add more customization by changing or better yet modifying an existing feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
A few people obviously don't want this to change; it obviously has done well for the past few games, and it doesn't need to be drastically changed like this into something totally different and complex. We need "change," yeah, but not necessarily the key parts of the game.
Keywords: a few. Totally different? Partly yes. Complex? I don't think so.
Key part of the game? I thought this was rather visual and eye candy. Certainly not key part. At least I've heard none yet who dared to claim that adding one more clothing spot would destroy the KotOR experience, destroy the feel of the game.

Seriously dude, look for better arguments then "OMG! Change man! You're trying to change the core gameplay man!"
You're just trying to prey on feelings again.


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Old 01-28-2006, 06:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
But dude! It's so much work! Developper time man!
I hate it when people respond in ways that imply that I post and think like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Then don't put a cloak on that.
Then give an answer to that problem instead of making sarcastic remarks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
And that's supposed to be insanely complex how?
If one more slot can make it very complex then perhaps we should remove armor all together.
Take what I said earlier. Now start thinking about whatever bonuses those cloaks would add, and penalties, then what that would do to the armor, etc. Figure out how to combine a cloak and armor so that it doesn't look horrible, and then try and sort through all these in an upgrade or equip menu.

Maybe your mind is somehow superior to Hai Wan's and mine; Seems to me it is getting hard to keep track of and equip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Keywords: a few. Totally different? Partly yes. Complex? I don't think so.
Key part of the game? I thought this was rather visual and eye candy. Certainly not key part. At least I've heard none yet who dared to claim that adding one more clothing spot would destroy the KotOR experience, destroy the feel of the game.
You seem to like to pick apart my sentences. Let me clarify myself in some better words:

I don't know how many people oppose this- certainly a few people in this thread do. Key part: perhaps I should say "major part". It is something that is used quite a bit. And I did not claim that this would destroy the KOTOR feel of the game- it would change it into something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Seriously dude, look for better arguments then "OMG! Change man! You're trying to change the core gameplay man!"
You're just trying to prey on feelings again.
I never said that, or implied that. I never used the term "core gameplay", and I do not have a problem with change in itself. I just have a problem with what this would change. I was not trying to "prey on feelings" again.

How about trying to argue with me without quoting things I never said or meant. I could pretty much argue like you are: "OMG! Feelings man! You're preying on feelings!"
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:53 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Maybe your mind is somehow superior to Hai Wan's and mine; Seems to me it is getting hard to keep track of and equip.
Actually, what I'm having a hard time keeping track of in this thread is what the points of contention currently are.

IIRC, the thread started out as a question of the feasibility of combining robes with armor for the next KotOR.

I think RobQel-Droma is pretty much opposed to the inclusion of armor without force restrictions, unless it's along the lines of the Jal Shey/Zeison Sha armor. He is also opposed to the use of multiple layers, e.g. robes over armor, as he feels it would be bulky and restrictive, all while adding additional complexity to the game.

I believe lukeiamyourdad thinks the layers concept is sound and is in line with general RP philosophy, allowing the player a great deal of flexibility and creativity to choose armor/clothing and equipment. Also that allowing a high degree of customization would only be good for the game.

And I think REDJOHNNYMIKE wants to be able to go all out and have upgrades for all item types, not just armor, robes, weapons as well as not have much in the way of force restrictions if a force user elects to wear armor.

So if I got the above right, I'm not sure that anyone's positions on the matter are subject to change at this point. *shrug*

Oh yeah, BTW and FWIW, I do think LIAYD has a superb intellect although I'm not quite willing to concede superiority.


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Old 01-28-2006, 09:55 PM   #49
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^I do agree with you on one thing: I've kind of lost the original point of this thread, and the views of some people. BTW, your list helped, Hai Wan.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:26 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I hate it when people respond in ways that imply that I post and think like this.
You're right. I did imply that. You've brought up developper time though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Then give an answer to that problem instead of making sarcastic remarks.
Sarcastic? How is not putting a cloak on so that the armor doesn't look bad sarcastic?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Take what I said earlier. Now start thinking about whatever bonuses those cloaks would add, and penalties, then what that would do to the armor, etc. Figure out how to combine a cloak and armor so that it doesn't look horrible, and then try and sort through all these in an upgrade or equip menu.
Actually, I never said that the cloak would have bonuses. Ever.
Also, you imply automatically that it might look horrible very often. However, whether it looks horrible or not is based on opinion, not fact.

In my mind, a cloak would give no bonuses. The armor underneath would. It's more aesthetic then anything.

About combining so that it looks good, how is that supposed to be difficult? You put the armor and cloak on and see what it looks like. End of story. If you don't like it, remove it, sell it to vendor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Maybe your mind is somehow superior to Hai Wan's and mine; Seems to me it is getting hard to keep track of and equip.
Yeah, looking at the character summary screen is that hard.

Oh and if a cloak did have a bonus, what would it be? +2 armor? +15 fire resistance? Hardly hard to keep track of, unless you're that scared of numbers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
And I did not claim that this would destroy the KOTOR feel of the game- it would change it into something else.
How does that not imply negative feelings towards change? In how would it change the feeling of KotOR? Did the D20 system suddenly crumble and the story got screwed because one armor slot was added? Does adding a cloak remove lightsabers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I never said that, or implied that. I never used the term "core gameplay",
Look at this quote from you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
A few people obviously don't want this to change; it obviously has done well for the past few games, and it doesn't need to be drastically changed like this into something totally different and complex. We need "change," yeah, but not necessarily the key parts of the game.
As far as I know, core gameplay and key parts are pretty close in meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
and I do not have a problem with change in itself. I just have a problem with what this would change. I was not trying to "prey on feelings" again.
Re-read this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
And I did not claim that this would destroy the KOTOR feel of the game- it would change it into something else.
Obviously, you know the general veteran forummite consensus of keeping the feel of the game.
You know it is such a big deal for veterans. We would do a jihad against core gameplay changes.

Thus first, you introduce the developper time argument with TSL's unfinished story. Obviously trying to use the resentment one might feel towards it.
Then you came up with the key parts (which is pretty much core gameplay) argument so that it could stir up an anti-change sentiment.

Note that this is my interpretation of your words. Perhaps you did it without thinking about it, but I do believe that was the purpose of those arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
How about trying to argue with me without quoting things I never said or meant.
I challenge you to point out where I actually quoted something you have not posted yourself. Everything I have quoted were posted by you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I could pretty much argue like you are: "OMG! Feelings man! You're preying on feelings!"
That is indeed one of my argument. It was a relatively good attempt at discrediting your own arguments, which I explained earlier in the post.

I'd like to repeat again, where are the right arguments against a cloak + armor option?
Overcomplexity is out of the window as a cloak would bring maybe one more stat bonus or two at most. Anyone can keep track of such a small boost and I personally don't even care if there are bonuses. I mainly want the aesthetic side of a cloak on an armor.
Developper time too. It automatically implies that they will indeed have no time, which is a rather weird assumption right now.
Changing a key part is also a non-factor, since such a addition can hardly be considered a change to a key part. It would definitely not change much, only add a greater deal of customization.

As a conclusion to this rather long post, I'd like to thank Hai Wan for summarizing the issues at hand.


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Old 01-28-2006, 11:37 PM   #51
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Just a couple things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
You're right. I did imply that.
Thank you very much. I'd like it if you didn't imply, because I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Sarcastic? How is not putting a cloak on so that the armor doesn't look bad sarcastic?
Because it is the same as using this logic:
"Dude, there are several armors that don't work, the whole armor is just white, and it doesn't have any icon but a white square!"
"Well don't wear that armor, then."

You just completely side-stepped the issue without giving any solution to the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Also, you imply automatically that it might look horrible very often. However, whether it looks horrible or not is based on opinion, not fact.
Hmm... Actually, I'd have to say that it is a fact that red Bonadon armor would look horrible with a cloak. I could name a few others, too, and I don't think that many would argue that the horror isn't fact.

But besides that, it would look stupid or unrealistic on some other armors, like ZS/JS armor- or on something like Atton's ribbed jacket, or Mira's ballistic mesh jacket. And that is a problem I have with it: If this happens, I sincerely doubt the devs are going to make this an option for those I just mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Note that this is my interpretation of your words. Perhaps you did it without thinking about it, but I do believe that was the purpose of those arguments.
I was not intending to "prey on feelings", or try and get you into a "jihad." I was just suggesting some things I thought might be issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
As far as I know, core gameplay and key parts are pretty close in meaning.
Obviously I did not use the right choice of words (Haven't I said that before?). It must be me using not-so-well-chosen words and phrases that miscommunicate what I am trying to say. I concede, clothing is not really a "key part." If you notice one of my later posts, I used a different word for it. I was just trying to say that it is a element used often in KOTOR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
How does that not imply negative feelings towards change?
You seem to not understand that there is a another view other than "Dude! All change is bad!" and "Dude! All change is good!"

It is not that it changes something- it is about what it changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I'd like to thank Hai Wan for summarizing the issues at hand.
I don't believe it. I actually agree with you, for about the first time in this thread.

I could go through more, but really don't want to type any more long posts; not to mention that I feel like I'm not really getting anywhere. This might not even be in the game, and we're not in charge of deciding whether it's put in, so... Sometimes I just wonder if there is a point to this. So, whatever.

Just on a closing note, developer is spelled with one p.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:21 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Because it is the same as using this logic:
"Dude, there are several armors that don't work, the whole armor is just white, and it doesn't have any icon but a white square!"
"Well don't wear that armor, then."

You just completely side-stepped the issue without giving any solution to the problem.
No, I didn't side-step anything. You're going to find a lot of armor ugly. Don't wear them that's all. How do you expect everyone to like every armor piece?

For example, I hate how most armors look on Mira so I use her regular jacket, no matter how crappy it is compared to some medium armors.
The same goes for Atton.
I just didn't use the armors.

Also, if the cloak adds no bonuses, what does it actually matter if you wear one or not? It becomes a nice aesthetic bonus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Hmm... Actually, I'd have to say that it is a fact that red Bonadon armor would look horrible with a cloak.
I think it's a general consensus that the armor alone looks horrible. Period. Thus the developer do not design armors that fits everyone's taste.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
But besides that, it would look stupid or unrealistic on some other armors, like ZS/JS armor- or on something like Atton's ribbed jacket, or Mira's ballistic mesh jacket. And that is a problem I have with it: If this happens, I sincerely doubt the devs are going to make this an option for those I just mentioned.
Indeed it would not look good on some armors. However, that is far from an issue to not include such an option. Thus why it's called customization. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I was not intending to "prey on feelings", or try and get you into a "jihad." I was just suggesting some things I thought might be issues.
Well, look for other actual issues. In a debate, you might get rammed into for coming up with wrong issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Obviously I did not use the right choice of words (Haven't I said that before?). It must be me using not-so-well-chosen words and phrases that miscommunicate what I am trying to say. I concede, clothing is not really a "key part." If you notice one of my later posts, I used a different word for it. I was just trying to say that it is a element used often in KOTOR.
True enough. So changing it will change the feel of KotOR how then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
You seem to not understand that there is a another view other than "Dude! All change is bad!" and "Dude! All change is good!"

It is not that it changes something- it is about what it changes.
True enough, if you quote that alone, it sounds like that.

However, it seems you like to quote out of context.
Full quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
How does that not imply negative feelings towards change? In how would it change the feeling of KotOR? Did the D20 system suddenly crumble and the story got screwed because one armor slot was added? Does adding a cloak remove lightsabers?
It is really about one particular change. The wording was not the clearest I admit, but I think that reading the rest of the paragraph and the quote posted above said paragraph should lead one to conclude that I was talk about change on the subject at hand.

This might lead to a misunderstanding:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Then you came up with the key parts (which is pretty much core gameplay) argument so that it could stir up an anti-change sentiment.
However, this is on another subject. Perhaps there was some confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I could go through more, but really don't want to type any more long posts; not to mention that I feel like I'm not really getting anywhere.
No debate here will ever take us anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
This might not even be in the game, and we're not in charge of deciding whether it's put in, so... Sometimes I just wonder if there is a point to this. So, whatever.
There is no point to anything we post or do on these forums. Whenever there's a debate going, we just keep going for the sake of it.

And I personally enjoy a good fight once in a while


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Just on a closing note, developer is spelled with one p.
Thanks for the tip Then again, for a french speaking guy, my spelling isn't too.


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Old 01-29-2006, 01:11 AM   #53
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@RQD
Complexity: Why can't it be made in a way that can be as complex as you want it?
You don't have to put a cloak over armor if you don't want the effects of balancing them. You don't have to equip upgrades to every available spot if you don't want to spend the time sorting through them.
You've said that story should be focused on more then item management. Do you want more planets than TSL had, do you want more NPCs than TSL had, do you want more quests than TSL had, do you want more detail to the plot than TSL had?
Those are some of the most important parts of the game, I want them taken to the next level, I also expect the same for item management and character customization.

"Dude...white armor"
That does not apply as it is a problem with the actual item files or lack thereof, it in no way applies to personal taste (which is the only meaning I can translate from your I would puke if Carth wore that comment).
Do you want a solution to programming bugs that haven't happened yet, or an effeminate guy to review all item possibilities and make sure you can't be seen in anything that would affect your social status??? (you could simply hire him to play with you and make sure that you don't wear anything hideous)
I for one think it would look good on mira's jacket, but that's just my opinion, carrying the same weight as your opinion, and both opinions become choices in their own item select screen with absolutely no impact on the other.
Some people just have different tastes, I'm pretty sure most high class clothing manufacturers would imitate your puking after seeing what I wear


@Hai Wan, You were close, Actually all I want is for KIII to completely revolutionize the next and subsequent generations of gaming and entertainment, and be the game that all others are weighed against for the next 30 years

@LIAYD, It did come of as sarcastic, but no less true If you don't like the Ubese Environmental suit then don't wear it

I do disagree with you, to a certain extent, on the cloak though, I think it still needs it's own bonuses as a unique item class.
If a system of layers is used, then each part must be able to be swapped while retaining it's "identity", So I can wear a a Jedi Tunic with a robe (or cloak) and then switch the tunic for armor while still wearing the robe and retaining some small attributes from it, and then get rid of the armor completely and and wear the cloak over basic clothing while still getting effective use out of the cloak's attributes.
There is nothing wrong with adding aesthetic only cloaks and items in addition to statistic based versions though


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Old 01-30-2006, 05:01 PM   #54
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I guess we still have a discussion over this. The Jal Shay armour has a cloak and it doesn't restrict Force powers, good for someone who wants extra protect. Butt ugly to look at. I was thinking that the look could be improved on. The textures could be rearranged to look more like samuraii armour which I still think the devs were attempting at. On the other hand, upgradeable robes are cool too and they could add the option to have the hood up or down.

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Old 01-31-2006, 01:23 AM   #55
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If they use seperate models for layers, that would make "hoodies" simpler, you could just make animations for the cloak instead of using an "up" and "down" model.


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Old 01-31-2006, 08:29 PM   #56
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I really see this whole thing as greater customization/choice versus increased administration/management. I like the idea of having the ability to add a cloak/cape as long as I don't have to worry about cape upgrades or something like that. Because knowing me I'll be trying all the different upgrades I could to see what cape upgrades work best with what armor upgrades and yet getting irritated with myself that I stopped playing the game to figure that out. Yeah, strange. I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
And I personally enjoy a good fight once in a while
***remembers Revan's real class debate***
Really? I would have never guessed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDJOHNNYMIKE
You were close, Actually all I want is for KIII to completely revolutionize the next and subsequent generations of gaming and entertainment, and be the game that all others are weighed against for the next 30 years
Yeah, RJM, I can see now how you would have such grand aspirations. My bad. Should I go back up and edit my post?


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Old 02-01-2006, 11:55 AM   #57
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So Hai Wan would you stand with the idea that armour with a cloak is an option to see? Personally this whole discussion has me depressed over the technically and the rules of RPG. Still I say stick with what we got in TSL just try not to make it such an eyesore.

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:29 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
So Hai Wan would you stand with the idea that armour with a cloak is an option to see?
I believe I've made it abundantly clear in this thread that I like the light armor with a Jedi cloak concept, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Personally this whole discussion has me depressed over the technically and the rules of RPG. Still I say stick with what we got in TSL just try not to make it such an eyesore.
I hope you don't get too depressed over it. Really, because it's not worth it. It's just a bunch of us passionate KotOR fans debating the merits of mixing armor and clothing and to what extent, if any, the game should allow said mixing to occur. In the end, it will be the developers who make the decision on what ends up in the game. If they think enough people want something in particular and they feel they can work it in the game without too much problem then I'm sure they'll do it. If not, then there is always modding (hopefully).


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Old 02-02-2006, 12:49 PM   #59
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Yeah you're right. I've actually had some fun with mods that others have come up with. I can see that it is just fans being passionate about it but don't turn it into a soap The light armour option is a good one and maybe we may see it in KOTOR 3

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