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Old 01-19-2006, 04:20 AM   #1
Darth Sun_Tzu
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Apprentice in K3

Story-wise i'm not bothered as long as it finishes the trilogy off well, but if they can't then it migh be better to start with a fresh story. But there are 2 things i'd really like to see.
1 - more master/apprentice stuff. For example, at the beggining of the game, upto lvl 8, your master trains you, like kreia does. Then you go off on your own (for what ever reason). At lvl 12-14 you take on your own apprentice and you teach them, by that i mean actually teach them and not how it works in k2.

2 - A more in-depth process of creating your lightsaber. Going on special quests for the parts and atleast a short cut scence showing the building and meditation that is required in the construction of the lightsaber.


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Old 01-19-2006, 09:57 AM   #2
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1 - I agree completely. One of the things I did not like in K2 was that the NPC story archs essentially ended when they became Jedi, which for some characters can happen quite early in the game.

2 - I agree about the cutscene, but I would rather have the lightsaber very soon after the start of the game. Perhaps it should emulate the SW universe, where if you start as a padawan you are given a lightsaber and then you'd have to build one as a part of the Trials.

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Old 01-19-2006, 10:24 AM   #3
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1. I agree on the training party members, and not ending their story after you train them. But I don't want an actual apprentice kind of thing, like your character is a Jedi Master. Just some more detail into the training of that character.

2. I don't think that the lightsaber should be a big quest like in TSL, it should just be something you find the parts to and build during the story. I didn't mind the wait in TSL, actually, I don't really care if you don't get it immediately- I'd just rather it not have a big emphasis on building it.
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Old 01-19-2006, 10:27 AM   #4
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I have also been thinking about how to fit these ideas into the story.

I thought you could start out in a small, secret academy. I thinking, possibly, Ossus. This would provide a suitable setting for you initial training and building of a lightsaber (there should be plenty of parts/crystal around). Some of your trials could include looking for artifacts and exploring the plannet. Eventually you discover the Ysanna tribe and come into conflict with them. Unable to resolve the conflict, the jedi leave.

So your main purpose at the start of the game is to find a new location for your academy and you also have to take a padawan of your own. But during your search you discover Malachor and the 'True Sith' threat, so you go off to help/hinder Revan and/or Exile (depending on choices in previous games).

How does that work for you guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
2. I don't think that the lightsaber should be a big quest like in TSL, it should just be something you find the parts to and build during the story. I didn't mind the wait in TSL, actually, I don't really care if you don't get it immediately- I'd just rather it not have a big emphasis on building it.
What my idea is, is not to make it a really big thing but really to show a bit more of what goes into making it, like it is described in 'I, Jedi'.


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Last edited by RedHawke; 01-25-2006 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006, 11:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
1. I agree on the training party members, and not ending their story after you train them. But I don't want an actual apprentice kind of thing, like your character is a Jedi Master. Just some more detail into the training of that character.
Quoted for emphasis.

I think it is a common idea, better backstory on NPCs

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Old 01-20-2006, 12:01 PM   #6
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Well i'd like to see an improved master/student relationships for k3.


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Old 01-20-2006, 04:06 PM   #7
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I think I said something like this before.

KotOR I - Your equale was Bastilla and Juhane.
KotOR II - Everyone was across the board. However, you main companion was a Master/Sith Lord. Visas would have been cool to train.

KotOR III - You should get an apprentice. Someone who is not as powerful. It would be cool that last second she will turn on you like all Sith, or she will join you in and you both become Council Members.

I like the whole teaching thing, and I think you should be able to teach her through dialogue and actions to go torward the Light or Darkside. They should allow you to play out the whole, 'Seducced by the Darkside' thing.
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:36 PM   #8
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I don't mind building the lightsaber but as to the Master/Apprentice thing, how about a cutscene showing you actually training the person?

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Old 01-20-2006, 09:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
I don't mind building the lightsaber but as to the Master/Apprentice thing, how about a cutscene showing you actually training the person?
That would be cool!
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:41 PM   #10
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I agree the NPC stories shouldn't end when they get Jedified. I wouldn't mind a minor sidequest for lightsaber parts at the beginning of the story--I'd just like to get the lightsaber built fairly early in the game, and I still want to see my PC start off as a padawan and have an NPC who is the master. I think I prefer not to take on my own padawan later in the game, but could live with it if it was part of the game. Heck, I'd pretty much play the game no matter what they do to it.


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Old 01-22-2006, 01:06 AM   #11
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I don't think many people waould agree with me on this, but here's my sugestion for the Master/Apprentice thing:

You start off with a master (as sugested above), but to make the master have a more significant role than Kreia in KotOR II, for every level-up, you would go to your master, and you would actually LEARN the abilities, like combat feats, blaster deflection, force powers (not skills, though)... And then you can do the same thing to your apprentices
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Old 01-22-2006, 01:54 AM   #12
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I''ve stated my ideas many times, but I'll do so again because I want the eventual developer to maybe read and consider them.

Many may disagree, but I want to see the Jedi 'classes' go out the window. I want K3 to be the return to the 'real' Jedi classes; Padawan, Knight, and Master. And all previous feats, reguardless of class restriction, will now be available to all Jedi, with availability only depending on level and ranking class (eg., a Padawan restricted to Lightsaber Proficiency, while the Knight can have access to that and Lightsaber Focus, and the Master has access to get either those two and have Lightsaber Specialization available.) I may have gotten the skill order wrong, but you can probably see where I'm going with this.

As has been said by many others, I feel that the PC should start-off as a Padawan training under a Jedi Knight or Master. Then, when your character reachers a certain level (preferably 9) he is assigned a task (your Jedi Trial). Upon completing the task, you level-up to 10 (passing your Jedi Trial) and become a Jedi Knight. Your mentor, if a Knight, then becomes a Jedi Master. And for some reason, he/she is then required to leave your party, but then you are assigned to take on your own Padawan. And upon reaching their 10th level, then they become a Knight and you, now at level 20, a Master. Then, they can either leave your party or stay.

Also keep in mind that just because you are a Jedi Master it doesn't make you uber-powerful. For a gleeming example, look at Coleman Trebor. But I used this set-up because I want a return to the real classes (not the rpg classes, which don't exist in the SW universe). And I would, for once, like my character to be recognized, by other characters (Jedi or not) as a Jedi Master when he or she achieves that title.

Also, I used thise set-up because it would be nice to see the Jedi Master class have adequate skill in lightsaber combat...unlike what can be seen in TSL where the Master class is a build-upon of the Consular. Again, these restricted classes poorly reflect the 'real' SW universe. Might I remind all rpg extremists that Yoda was - spposedly - a Consular. Yet he kicked everyone's ass when it came to lightsaber prowess. Also, Palpatine is considered a Consular. Yet he took down three Jedi Masters (some 'Guardians') within mere seconds.

As i stated before; with the removal of the rpg classes, and previously restricted class-related skills being accessible to Jedi characters at large, a more truer SW feel will be had by many.

That was kinda long, but it takes some time for me to type my expressions into written word.

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Old 01-22-2006, 04:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Dakari
I''ve stated my ideas many times, but I'll do so again because I want the eventual developer to maybe read and consider them.

(Edited for space saving)

That was kinda long, but it takes some time for me to type my expressions into written word.
I like most of your ideas, they are similar to what i had in mind but i don't see them getting rid of the jedi classes for k3 but maybe after that they might.


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!

Last edited by RedHawke; 01-22-2006 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 01-23-2006, 08:10 AM   #14
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how bout this u start out as a padawan then after say level 12 u become a knight level 18 u become a master


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Old 01-23-2006, 09:20 AM   #15
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1) Well....in Kotor 1, you play an apprentice. In Kotor 2, you play an Knight. I think it would only be fitting if you could train a Padawan.
-Personal note: I remember that younglings will be paired with masters. Maybe visiting Coruscant, and pick your own padawan?

2) Couldn't say it any better in K1, we just 'got' it, and in K2...we try to forget...
-Maybe a quest surrounding it? I heared Jedi pupils need to go to a place with cristals, and take all the neccesary parts and a steel plate. They then lay the pieces in front of them, and start mediatating. After some time, the saber will take shape. maybe visiting Ilum?

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Old 01-23-2006, 09:41 AM   #16
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i want to choose my own padawan... on coruscant or something like that
maybe a twilek or a human kid.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
Maybe a quest surrounding it? I heared Jedi pupils need to go to a place with cristals, and take all the neccesary parts and a steel plate. They then lay the pieces in front of them, and start mediatating. After some time, the saber will take shape. maybe visiting Ilum?
Like I said earlier, my info is from 'I, jedi' which tell you a bit about the process. I'd just like to see something a little more meaningful.


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Old 01-23-2006, 11:24 AM   #18
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Still I prefer starting out as a regular joe and then being trained but to improve on that, you see the cutscenes of being trained like in KOTOR on Dantooine. You would have a master or a knight who decides to come with you on your journey and they play a more vital role in your training to become a knight.

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Old 01-23-2006, 12:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Still I prefer starting out as a regular joe and then being trained but to improve on that, you see the cutscenes of being trained like in KOTOR on Dantooine. You would have a master or a knight who decides to come with you on your journey and they play a more vital role in your training to become a knight.
It would definitely be cool to start as a non-force user, and then decide which side you prefers and train on that said. If you are lightsiders, Jedi Knights train you, and if you're darksider, then Sith Lord trainsyou. That would be great.
And ofcourse for both sides, that your mentor also gives you few unique quests.


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Old 01-23-2006, 12:34 PM   #20
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...to improve on that, you see the cutscenes of being trained like in KOTOR on Dantooine.
I feel more along the lines of starting as a padawan, but I completely agree with the cutscenes of your training. Maybe even having multiple ones (for every other level-up or so) where you can learn a unique feat or power from your mentor. Kind of like the few special powers you learned with Kreia.

It would also be neat to have these same cutscenes about you training your padawan, after you become a Knight and choose an apprentice.

Something I just though of ... Maybe the selecting of an apprentice is not required. You can either select one right away, take as long as you like before selecting one, or never select one at all. However, the longer you take, the longer it takes you to become a Master. And if you never select one, you never become a Master (unless the council eventually deems you worthy of the title...but that's a whole different subject.)

I just thought of that, and maybe that could be one of the many decisions you can make in K3.

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Old 01-24-2006, 03:45 AM   #21
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The thing is, is there going to be a council in k3 to appoint you a master or a padawan?


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Old 01-24-2006, 12:27 PM   #22
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Considering Brianna assumes Atris's role as <istress of the Archives and head of the Jedi Academy on Telos, and how Mical sits upon the new Council (albeit reluctantly, as all good men do) ... I would have to say, "".

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Old 01-24-2006, 01:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Dakari
Something I just though of ... Maybe the selecting of an apprentice is not required. You can either select one right away, take as long as you like before selecting one, or never select one at all. However, the longer you take, the longer it takes you to become a Master. And if you never select one, you never become a Master (unless the council eventually deems you worthy of the title...but that's a whole different subject.)
I was thinking more along the lines of TSL where you have the option of training a person in your party who is strong in the Force. Like you can persuade them to let you show them the way. The Knight/Sith Lord who accompanies you would observe how you react to NPCs and the conversations. They would also take an active role in your training too.

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Old 01-24-2006, 05:46 PM   #24
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I was thinking more along the lines of TSL where you have the option of training a person in your party who is strong in the Force. .... The Knight/Sith Lord who accompanies you would observe how you react to NPCs and the conversations. They would also take an active role in your training too.
Not too often do Masters and Knight allow Padawans to train others. The Exile one one of the few who did - he trained younger padawans at the Enclave, including Mical - but it happens very seldomly.

I agree that it should be an option (not a requirement, which it never is), just so long as you have completed your training, now a Jedi Knight, and the person you persuade becomes your Padawan.

I'm just ready for an organized, almost 'movie' feel. Not just some thrown-together, ragtag team of any and everybody becoming pseudo Jedi. I'm ready for a Jedi Council, I'm ready to actually visit the Jedi Temple (preferably populated), and I'm ready for my character to be recognized as a credible - legitimate - Jedi.

Another thing that would be nice to have in K3 would be given assignments from the Council. Like you see in the movies. Maybe the game can start out with, maybe, Bastila (a Master on the Council) convincing the council that Revan needs to be found. Maybe they had a collective vision of an impending attack by the true Sith. And the first assignment you and your master receive is to discover Revan's fate.

I'm just brainstorming here. Whatever the story is, and whatever they decide to do, I know it will end up very good. I just hope there is some kind of structure to the Jedi in this one, and that you get an 'official' master and - later - padawan (if you so choose).

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Old 01-25-2006, 03:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Master Dakari
Considering Brianna assumes Atris's role as <istress of the Archives and head of the Jedi Academy on Telos, and how Mical sits upon the new Council (albeit reluctantly, as all good men do) ... I would have to say, "".
But what if you played DS in K1 and K2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Dakari
Not too often do Masters and Knight allow Padawans to train others. The Exile one one of the few who did - he trained younger padawans at the Enclave, including Mical - but it happens very seldomly.

I agree that it should be an option (not a requirement, which it never is), just so long as you have completed your training, now a Jedi Knight, and the person you persuade becomes your Padawan.

I'm just ready for an organized, almost 'movie' feel. Not just some thrown-together, ragtag team of any and everybody becoming pseudo Jedi. I'm ready for a Jedi Council, I'm ready to actually visit the Jedi Temple (preferably populated), and I'm ready for my character to be recognized as a credible - legitimate - Jedi.

Another thing that would be nice to have in K3 would be given assignments from the Council. Like you see in the movies. Maybe the game can start out with, maybe, Bastila (a Master on the Council) convincing the council that Revan needs to be found. Maybe they had a collective vision of an impending attack by the true Sith. And the first assignment you and your master receive is to discover Revan's fate.

I'm just brainstorming here. Whatever the story is, and whatever they decide to do, I know it will end up very good. I just hope there is some kind of structure to the Jedi in this one, and that you get an 'official' master and - later - padawan (if you so choose).
I like that idea but as i have already said what if you played DS in both games? There would be no jedi council, atleast not with any of your NPCs from either game.

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Old 01-25-2006, 11:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Dakari
Another thing that would be nice to have in K3 would be given assignments from the Council. Like you see in the movies. Maybe the game can start out with, maybe, Bastila (a Master on the Council) convincing the council that Revan needs to be found. Maybe they had a collective vision of an impending attack by the true Sith. And the first assignment you and your master receive is to discover Revan's fate.
That sounds like an interesting storyline. You should say this in the other thread about K3 ideas. I still would stick with having Mira or Atton train the new PC though.

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Old 01-25-2006, 11:14 AM   #27
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But how would that work with the DS option?


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Old 01-25-2006, 12:05 PM   #28
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I still would stick with having Mira or Atton train the new PC though.
I have always thought that maybe Mical would be the PC mentor. And when your PC becomes a Knight, he becomes a master and is requested by the council to sit with them. Maybe they had requested multiple times, but decided to do so this time, and that is where the reluctance - mentioned by Kreia - comes in.

And Mira is to give up hunting life and, instead, live it. Kreia foresaw that she is to die on a long forgotten planet protecting others. I always pictured this as her being the head of a satellite academy (like Dantooine and Telos) and later in the game she is killed defending it - and its young Padawans and Knights - from an attack by the Sith.

I figured that Brianna and Mira are Masters leading academies on other planets (Telos and Yavin IV?), but who sit on the High Council when it is called into session.

I say Yavin IV for Mira because it is a forgotten world, but also a world of the ancient Sith, and these true Sith would surely set their eyes to it when they return. (Maybe it was Mira and Company who built the mythical Lost Jedi City...but I don't know the whole story behindit...so that was only a brain fart that needed to slip.)

Remember that these are all only speculation, and everyone's guess is just as good as another's. But it's always fun to just sit down and daydream from time to time. But my problem might be that I do it too much. Oh well.

*Edit*
Quote:
But how would that work with the DS option?
If the basis of K2 was that your party members were the "True Jedi, upon which the future will be built" then they are the ones to rebuild the Jedi Order. And Kreia even recognized Brianna as a Jedi before she was ever in your party when she said, "There is a Jedi here. In that, you are correct."

If K3 is to work successfully, and have a concise story, then the writers are going to have to make certain decisions, and incorporate some things canon. This is not to say that you shouldn't be able to decide what Revan or Exile were and decide each of their alignments. But there are even little inconsistancies in everyone's game, even if they both played lightside. In K1, lightside, you can either kill Bastila aboard the Star Forge, or redeeme her. The desicion of her true fate was already made by the writers of K2. So, tuff titty for those who decided that she should die, and who killed her in their game.

When playing games like this, we must always keep in mind that there is one consistant story (canon) that has already been decided (or will be soon). Every little decision I make is not going to be every single decision you make, even it we are both dark side or light side. Those little things will need to be decided by the writers.

If you went DS, I would still say that something could have happened to bring about the reestablishment of the Jedi Order. Maybe your party members found redemption and decided to follow the Jedi way. Who knows? Or, maybe the new council will be made up of others; be they Jedi who were in hiding the whole time K2 was happening, or those who have taken it upon themselves to become Jedi and help with the rebuilding. But like I said, these crucial decisions are the ones made the writers, not the gamers.


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Old 01-25-2006, 12:38 PM   #29
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Unless they are going to make the LS ending cannon then it may be difficult for the developers to make it work. In K2 all they had to do was have Carth substituted with a random and cut out the scene on Telos. But for what you are suggesting it would mean that the LS and DS choice would radically change the game. Not that i don't like your idea or have the game very different depending on LS or DS. I just don't see the developers putting in the time to do it.

Ok, thats enough of that. Sorry about dumping on your idea. It is good and i would like to see something like that. I had something similar in mind. I thought about having Jolee setting up a secret Academy somewhere like Ossus but then because of trouble with the locals you have to move on.


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:47 PM   #30
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I would rather have the lightsaber very soon after the start of the game. Perhaps it should emulate the SW universe, where if you start as a padawan you are given a lightsaber and then you'd have to build one as a part of the Trials.
I agree. I also believe that many people will be pretty ticked off if the game is dragged out again about getting your lightsaber. Jedi Academy did that after what happened in Jedi Outcast. Hopefully if there is a KOTOR III, that you will be able to get your lightsaber pretty quick also.


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Old 01-26-2006, 01:32 AM   #31
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I agree. I also believe that many people will be pretty ticked off if the game is dragged out again about getting your lightsaber. Jedi Academy did that after what happened in Jedi Outcast. Hopefully if there is a KOTOR III, that you will be able to get your lightsaber pretty quick also.
Just as long as it is not too soon. If they do it right then, it could give you a sense of acheivement but if it is the same again then they might as well start you with one and forget the whole idea.


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:56 AM   #32
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The character be it Revan or not should take on an aprentice and if you fall to the darkside you fight against your apprentice in the end and vice versa........ OHH man, I just thought of a sweet idea but I have to post it somewhere else.......Good idea with the lightsaber too


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Old 01-27-2006, 07:54 AM   #33
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What do you guys think is a reasonable level to get your lightsabre? I was thinking about lvl 8 like in k1.


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Old 01-27-2006, 09:25 AM   #34
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If they do it right then, it could give you a sense of acheivement
Usually I just end up with a "thank goodness that's over" feeling...

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Old 01-27-2006, 11:12 AM   #35
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To answer your question Darth Sun_Tzu, I don't mind building a saber, I just don't want to go searching the galaxy for all the parts. I would rather have the parts there and construct it right then and there. As to the level, level 8 sounds good.

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Old 01-27-2006, 05:55 PM   #36
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I just don't want to go searching the galaxy for all the parts. I would rather have the parts there and construct it right then and there.
I agree. I'm sure every academy (be it Coruscant or Dantooine) has the basic lightsaber parts for their Padawans to use.

It's the individual Jedi, and the different "parts from the pile", that make all the difference.

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Old 01-29-2006, 10:20 AM   #37
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I just don't want to go searching the galaxy for all the parts. I would rather have the parts there and construct it right then and there.
Thats what happened in K2 and what i don't want for K3. I don't mind them all being in the same place but you should have to do something to earn them.


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Old 01-29-2006, 06:05 PM   #38
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I agree with my apprentice that you shouldn't have to search the galaxy for lightsaber parts. Since you start k2 with a couple powers already, I think I've changed my mind on being a regular joe at the start of k3.

You should start as a Jedi apprentice and around Lvl. 5 you should get to build your lightsaber. Parts and color crystals should be on hand when you do.

But no special parts or power crystals until you start adventuring around the galaxy. Collecting new add-ons and crystals made the last 2 games pretty cool. It made you excited when you went to new planets and fought new foes.


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Old 01-30-2006, 05:05 AM   #39
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You should start as a Jedi apprentice and around Lvl. 5 you should get to build your lightsaber. Parts and color crystals should be on hand when you do.

But no special parts or power crystals until you start adventuring around the galaxy. Collecting new add-ons and crystals made the last 2 games pretty cool. It made you excited when you went to new planets and fought new foes.
Thats given me an idea. I'm now thinking that, like you said, you can build your lightsabre at level 5 but it is weak say 1-12 damage and can't be fitted with upgrades. As you travel around you learn how to improve your lightsabre (at say lvl 10) and then it becomes 1-16 damage and you can put in additional cystals. Some more time passes (say when you reach level 14-15) and you learn how to further improve your lightsabre. Now it becomes 1-20 damage and can take cystals and upgrades.

Additional: Maybe the improvements could coincide with your development as a jedi. You first make your lightsabre when you become a padawan. You then upgrade it when you become a full Jedi Knight. The final upgrade comes when you become a Master.

So how about that? To me that makes it a little more realistic.


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:46 PM   #40
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That is interesting and coupled with the idea that Darth Windu had about some of the power crystals and the color crystals having an attribute bonus would make the saber a powerful weapon. It of course would become more powerful the stronger you become in the Force.

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