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View Poll Results: Who will you play as in KoTOR 3?
Revan 89 28.80%
Exile 19 6.15%
A completely new character 201 65.05%
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Thread: Who do you want to play as in KoTOR 3?
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:03 PM   #81
RedHawke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
you have to understand that i'm looking at this from two perspectives: first the development and writing process. second, i'm looking at how both the hardcore and the average gamer are going to perceive things.

from the developer/writer's standpoint, creating a new character makes more sense because you aren't limited to an established charater. you also aren't constrained to explain why a character has suddenly lost not only their powers, but also whatever they stood for (in this case being lightside or darkside).

from a gamer's perspective, a more cohesive and reasonable storyline is what makes the difference. in this case, you really can't use amnesia since its been done. you can't use being shut off from the Force because that's been done. you also can't look backwards and try to use Revan's or the Exile's backstory because we already know the backstory to those characters. so, now you really aren't left with much options unless those options include the insane and over-the-top ideas, and quite frankly, hardly anybody that goes through Kotor 3's storyline is going to want that.
Thank you stingerhs, you nailed it.

@ Vlad to answer your questions you posed to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
But why would she test the Exile? Tests are made to prepare people for something. Kreia was obviously preparing the Exile for something. And would she really go that far, even though it would kill her? She may be devious. But she's definately not a lunatic.
Kreia was preparing her apprentice so as to challenge her, she used everyone around her to achieve this goal. She knew full well what she was doing. Her happiest moment was when the Exile defeats her, that was everything she worked for. It is the Dark Sith way. The apprentice and master must have a face off at some point. The strong must rule.

Revan's story ended with either reclaiming the Sith Throne or saving the Republic.

The Exile defeating Kreia was the end to the Exile's story.

You seem to foster some false pretenses on just what the characters mean in these games, Revans story is finished, the same applies for the Exile, I'm sorry, these characters story arc's are quite done, all that remains is to answer the questions of their fates... all that is left is to find out weather Revan and The Exile lived happily ever after or died a Sith or Jedi death.

You can very much build a game story for a new PC on this question of our previous 2 characters fates alone, add to it the True Sith Empire and their threat to the weakened Republic, and lastly with the Jedi Order being in a wrecked state and unable to do much... that sounds like a heck of a game to me. Talk about overwhelming odds for us to beat in the third installment!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:23 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Kreia was preparing her apprentice so as to challenge her, she used everyone around her to achieve this goal. She knew full well what she was doing. Her happiest moment was when the Exile defeats her, that was everything she worked for. It is the Dark Sith way. The apprentice and master must have a face off at some point. The strong must rule.

Revan's story ended with either reclaiming the Sith Throne or saving the Republic.

The Exile defeating Kreia was the end to the Exile's story.

You seem to foster some false pretenses on just what the characters mean in these games, Revans story is finished, the same applies for the Exile, I'm sorry, these characters story arc's are quite done, all that remains is to answer the questions of their fates... all that is left is to find out weather Revan and The Exile lived happily ever after or died a Sith or Jedi death.

You can very much build a game story for a new PC on this question of our previous 2 characters fates alone, add to it the True Sith Empire and their threat to the weakened Republic, and lastly with the Jedi Order being in a wrecked state and unable to do much... that sounds like a heck of a game to me. Talk about overwhelming odds for us to beat in the third installment!
I agree with you about the ''Kreia testing the Exile'' matter and I agree that the Exile's story is most probably over.

On the other hand, no matter what you say, Revan wasn't insignificant, nor did his story end in KoTOR 1. If that were the case, he wouldn't even be mentioned in TSL and he was mentioned a lot, mostly in reference to what happened to him after KoTOR 1 and that wasn't resolved in TSL.
You are right - the question of their fates is what remains to be answered, in what way will it be answered is a different question. Revan could return (sorry, but I'm a lost cause on this until an official announcement arrives), he could only be mentioned, or (and I think this is highly unlikely) the new PC might run into Revan somewhere in the game.

And at last the fact that the Jedi Order was in disarray in TSL doesn't mean it will still be so in KoTOR 3. The Sith Lords who were after the Jedi were defeated in TSL, so there's no reason for the Jedi Order not to be restored.

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Old 02-08-2006, 05:40 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
I agree with you about the ''Kreia testing the Exile'' matter and I agree that the Exile's story is most probably over.
Progress! Woot! (Any excuse to use the dancing pink elephant smily!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
On the other hand, no matter what you say, Revan wasn't insignificant, nor did his story end in KoTOR 1.
I never said that Revan was 'insignificant' now did I?

I said Revan's story is done, all that remains is to find out Revan's fate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
If that were the case, he wouldn't even be mentioned in TSL and he was mentioned a lot, mostly in reference to what happened to him after KoTOR 1 and that wasn't resolved in TSL.
You couldn't not mention Revan in TSL, that would be like saying Revan meant nothing at all, Revan meant something as the deciding factor for KotOR I, and Revan's decision altered the path of the whole galaxy, it will be similar in KotOR III as we will see what the Exile's journey and decisions will have altered the galaxy further. That is all they are needed for.

I expect in KotOR III we will hear/read a lot about Revan and the Exile, since I do believe we will be following their paths once we find out about this new threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
You are right - the question of their fates is what remains to be answered, in what way will it be answered is a different question.
It will be answered no differently than we found out things about Revan in TSL, RPG's like this are dialog driven games. We will find out things about Revan and the Exile by dialogs and found datapads in KotOR III.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
Revan could return (sorry, but I'm a lost cause on this until an official announcement arrives), he could only be mentioned, or (and I think this is highly unlikely) the new PC might run into Revan somewhere in the game.
You can count on Revan being mentioned... Personally, I suspect Revan will be a big topic in KIII.

Though if we actually 'see' Revan it won't be any more than the 'vision' we got in TSL, possibly in cutscenes. With a minor texture tweak to the trademark outfit for a possible LS Revan, but it can never be more than that.


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Old 02-08-2006, 05:48 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Though if we actually 'see' Revan it won't be any more than the 'vision' we got in TSL, possibly in cutscenes.
Are you refering to the vision of Revan in Ludo Kressh's tomb, or is there another vision I'm not aware of (I sure hope there isn't 'cause I recently finished TSL for the 4th time and I don't want to play it again just yet)?

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Old 02-08-2006, 05:53 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by igyman
Are you refering to the vision of Revan in Ludo Kressh's tomb, or is there another vision I'm not aware of (I sure hope there isn't 'cause I recently finished TSL for the 4th time and I don't want to play it again just yet)?
That would be the vision...


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:58 AM   #86
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Suspected as much, but thought I should check just in case.

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Old 02-08-2006, 01:09 PM   #87
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I've been thinking about the Revan and Exile stories (that RPG gaming system). Isn't it just sad that in K1 you put all your life efforts to save/destroy the galaxy, and then in K2 you are just being mentioned as some misterious guy...? That'll probably be the same case in K3. I mean, you spend let's say 70 good hours in K2 to spread the good/kill everybody, and then you are GONE in K3, or at least mentioned as "that guy"...


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Old 02-08-2006, 01:59 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Kreia was preparing her apprentice so as to challenge her, she used everyone around her to achieve this goal. She knew full well what she was doing. Her happiest moment was when the Exile defeats her, that was everything she worked for. It is the Dark Sith way. The apprentice and master must have a face off at some point. The strong must rule.
Then why did she mention the True Sith? Why did the Exile leave?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Revan's story ended with either reclaiming the Sith Throne or saving the Republic.

The Exile defeating Kreia was the end to the Exile's story. <----Wrong
If the Exile's story had ended with him defeating Kreia, the story would have ended with him staying to reform the Jedi Order. But instead of that, Obsidian chose that the Exile must fight, and therefor, must remain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
You seem to foster some false pretenses on just what the characters mean in these games, Revans story is finished, the same applies for the Exile, I'm sorry, these characters story arc's are quite done, all that remains is to answer the questions of their fates... all that is left is to find out weather Revan and The Exile lived happily ever after or died a Sith or Jedi death.
The way Obsidian made the ending and the entire hidden plot of KOTOR 2, it seems more likely that their stories have only begun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
You can very much build a game story for a new PC on this question of our previous 2 characters fates alone, add to it the True Sith Empire and their threat to the weakened Republic, and lastly with the Jedi Order being in a wrecked state and unable to do much... that sounds like a heck of a game to me.
What Republic? What Jedi Order?
There are two quotes that strongly barrel down that 'Republic and Jedi are in peril' theory. They were in KOTOR 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GO-TO
According to the entire calculus, the Republic will collapse in, approximatley, one month. Mainly due to the lack of both law integrity and economic crisis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreia
The room of the silver fountains remains empty, because there are no Jedi.
Surely, you must remember these words. So that means that there will be NO Republic or Jedi Order to be in crisis in the first place. The only option that remains is to get the two characters that want to fight against the True Sith: Revan and Ry'ghol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Talk about overwhelming odds for us to beat in the third installment!
RedHawke, I don't want to insult you or be in conflict with you. I respect you, but please let's not take this too personally.
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:43 PM   #89
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I am tired of Revan and Exile. I think there will be a 100% new character. I hope so anyway.



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Old 02-08-2006, 05:26 PM   #90
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But Revan and the Exile will be involved in the storyplot. That is a must!

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Old 02-08-2006, 05:34 PM   #91
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I like the idea someone I've forgotten came up with: You can play either as a new character, or as either Revan and/or the Exile.



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Old 02-08-2006, 05:38 PM   #92
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That means you'd have three separate character campaigns and I don't think the developers will bother themselves with making a game that complex, I'm not even sure they could.

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Old 02-08-2006, 05:47 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
I like the idea someone I've forgotten came up with: You can play either as a new character, or as either Revan and/or the Exile.
That idea came out a long time ago. I was one of those that supported it (I am even now). That would be for the best. Too bad no one would do it.
I thought of this when I considered that when choosing Revan or the Exile in the character creation screen, they have different campaigns. Then I added in my thoughts that maybe even a third character could be inserted along with them.

It's a long shot... But it would be great, also that they come in contact with each other and become party members (depending on the PC).
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:51 PM   #94
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This would, first of all, mean that the PC would have to get a voice, including male/female Revan/Exile. I mean whoever you chose, if you meet the other two and they become members of your party, you'll have to be able to talk with them just as with the rest of the party members.

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Old 02-08-2006, 06:02 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
That idea came out a long time ago. I was one of those that supported it (I am even now). That would be for the best. Too bad no one would do it.
I thought of this when I considered that when choosing Revan or the Exile in the character creation screen, they have different campaigns. Then I added in my thoughts that maybe even a third character could be inserted along with them.

It's a long shot... But it would be great, also that they come in contact with each other and become party members (depending on the PC).
That would be an excellent idea. Therefore, you will be able to control the fates of both characters. At the beginning of the game you will be the Exile, and you free Revan from something. When you setup your characters, at the very beginning, you will be able to choose both of their head pieces, gender, alignment, etc... After you get both characters in your party, it would only be a matter of playing the game out. If you think about it, the characters in KotOR I and II are allready setup that way. Except, this time you will be able to control two character's design and outcome.



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Old 02-08-2006, 06:09 PM   #96
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^^^^
yeah, and then we can get caught up in a storyline that will numb our butt-cheeks for 80+ hours.

what you're talking about is an absolutely massive game. games with an epic feel are one thing, but the scale you're talking about is beyond epic.


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Old 02-08-2006, 06:11 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by stingerhs
what you're talking about is an absolutely massive game. games with an epic feel are one thing, but the scale you're talking about is beyond epic.
Exatcly, my man!
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:17 PM   #98
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Quote:
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^^^^
yeah, and then we can get caught up in a storyline that will numb our butt-cheeks for 80+ hours.

what you're talking about is an absolutely massive game. games with an epic feel are one thing, but the scale you're talking about is beyond epic.
You could do this in 40hrs.
1. You would know the Exile's fate, for you are playing the Exile.
2. The only two other mysteries would be "Where is Revan?, "What is the new threat?"

Simple. If you remember KotOR I, you had to figure out two things. "Where are the Star Maps?" and "What is the StarForge?".

Revan could be your key to finding out what this threat is. The only addition to Revan will be a voice over that will be determined by his/her gender.

Edit: Add:
Oh wait. In KotOR I, Revan did have a voice over.



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Old 02-08-2006, 06:55 PM   #99
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^^^^
and you can do that without having to play as Revan and the Exile. it wouldn't be out of the scope of a story to include Revan or the Exile at some point as NPC's.


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Old 02-08-2006, 06:55 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
Originally Posted by Kreia
The room of the silver fountains remains empty, because there are no Jedi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
Surely, you must remember these words. So that means that there will be NO Republic or Jedi Order to be in crisis in the first place. The only option that remains is to get the two characters that want to fight against the True Sith: Revan and Ry'ghol.
"No Jedi". Yet we find Jedi through the game. Seems like someone was doing a little bit of lying there. No Jedi indeed. So what were Vrook, Zal etc if not Jedi.
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:04 PM   #101
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Yes, but they all ended up dead, now didn't they?
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:22 PM   #102
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Yes the council ended up dead bur when Kreia said there was no Jedi there was. She is a lier. So who knows how many more Jedi are still hanging around.
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:24 PM   #103
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As far as I remember; after the Jedi Masters were killed, the Exile was the only Jedi in the Galaxy. She may be a liar, but the Exile is still the only Jedi left.
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:53 PM   #104
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Those three she killed at Dantooine were not the only ones. Remember Vrook and Zez Kai Ell said that they have scattered. The devs only put those significant few in because they were pertinent to the story. You hear alot in EU about how there were Jedi hidden from the galaxy. Jolee himself was "lost" in the woods for forty years or something like that.

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Old 02-09-2006, 12:35 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Vladimir-Vlada
RedHawke, I don't want to insult you or be in conflict with you. I respect you, but please let's not take this too personally.
Where did this come from?

My statements are quite valid. The Exile's story is done with the Death of Kreia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GO-TO
According to the entire calculus, the Republic will collapse in, approximatley, one month. Mainly due to the lack of both law integrity and economic crisis.
G0-T0's quote is an appraisal of what happens if things progress as they had been, once the Sith Lords were defeated the problems to the Republic would diminish, it would take time to rebuild things. G0-T0 was a patriot of sorts who wanted galactic stability he didn't care if it were Jedi or Sith stability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreia
The room of the thousand fountains remains empty, because there are no Jedi.
Kreia's quote is taken entirely out of context, as that is from earlier in the game. The Jedi were all in hiding at that point. The Order is fractured, but not gone. See Jackel's posts above.

I have said all I need to. Your choice of questions prove to me that you haven't played the game nearly enough to figure out what is actually going on, especially at the end. Or else you just want to argue for fun.


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Old 02-09-2006, 02:19 AM   #106
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I think some like a good argument RedHawke; they can't live without it

I believe I said something similar that not all the Jedi were gone and I've pointed out the fact that they were scattered. We have lots of tales in EU about Jedi that escaped from the Emperor or were lost.

As to G0-T0, he compared the Republic to a dejarik boards where one cannot see the opponent. I took that to mean he was making a comparison to the darkness manifesting beyond the Outer Rim. Then again he said he liked predictable games after all he was a droid and droids operate in calculations and binary codes. Still even Kreia referred to the events as a game of dejarik.
No game of dejarik can be won without pawns and this may prove to be a very long game-Kreia

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Old 02-09-2006, 06:31 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
G0-T0 was a patriot of sorts who wanted galactic stability he didn't care if it were Jedi or Sith stability.
But in the end there were no Jedi or Sith, right? So the Republic will most likely fall. And the only thing that could happen is that the True Sith form an Empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Kreia's quote is taken entirely out of context, as that is from earlier in the game. The Jedi were all in hiding at that point. The Order is fractured, but not gone.
You sound like that instead of a few, there are thousands of Jedi that survived. It was stated clearly in the game several times that most of the Jedi were killed during the war and, after that, slaughtered on Katharr.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:10 PM   #108
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The planet is Katarr. The ones that weren't killed during the Jedi Civil War ended up switching off the lightsabers. The bounty didn't help either. I don't think RedHawke was implying that there were thousands still left. Not many were left but they were in hiding. I know that Dorak and Zhar died on Katarr but nothing said about Vandar so there is the possibility that there were others besides those on the council.

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Old 02-09-2006, 12:21 PM   #109
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I'm pretty sure that he died on Katarr as well JediMaster12. Otherwise he died on KOTOR if you were Dark Side.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:49 PM   #110
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True I suppose but I just don't buy it that it was just those we see on the holovid in TSL. There had to have been more but as Atton said, they switched off the lightsabers. Of course there are the Lost Jedi that the Exile trained but you know *shrugs shoulder*

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Old 02-09-2006, 01:51 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by JediMaster12
I know that Dorak and Zhar died on Katarr but nothing said about Vandar so there is the possibility that there were others besides those on the council.
I know. But there are still not enough to bring back the Jedi Order and the Republic.
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:03 PM   #112
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@JediMaster12:
Actually Vandar did die on Katarr, one of the Jedi Masters (I don't remember which one at this point) says so in your conversation with him.

@Vladimir-Vlada:
1) There are plenty of them to restore the Jedi Order. All the other Jedi who were in hiding during TSL, Bastila and all your TSL party members who became Jedi.

2) The Republic will not fall until Palpatine (Darth Sidious) turns it into his Galactic Empire. That's the Star Wars universe history - the Old Republic, before the Galactic Empire and the New Republic, after Palpatine's death and the destruction of the second Death Star.

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Old 02-09-2006, 03:11 PM   #113
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1) There are plenty of them to restore the Jedi Order. All the other Jedi who were in hiding during TSL, Bastila and all your TSL party members who became Jedi.
Who says that the party members will continue? And most of all, how would they manage to rebuild everything if the enemy already won?

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
2) The Republic will not fall until Palpatine (Darth Sidious) turns it into his Galactic Empire. That's the Star Wars universe history - the Old Republic, before the Galactic Empire and the New Republic, after Palpatine's death and the destruction of the second Death Star.
It doesn't have to be absolute. Two or five years can easily be forgotten after fourt thousand years. The archives of the Republic aren't always complete, you know.
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:25 PM   #114
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The enemy lost - the three Sith Lords that were hunting down the Jedi were defeated.
The Jedi Temple on Coruscant remains intact, all the Jedi have to do is to return there.

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Old 02-09-2006, 04:14 PM   #115
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:21 PM   #116
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The galaxy doesn't hate the Jedi (if you think that because the people of Dantooine hate them the whole galaxy hates them too, you are wrong) and what holocrons are you talking about? The ones Atris took to Telos were Sith holocrons.

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Old 02-09-2006, 05:03 PM   #117
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Not just on Dantooine, but on Nar Shadaa, Onderon, Telos, Peragus....just about every planet, in fact.



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Old 02-09-2006, 05:09 PM   #118
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Nar Shadaa? They were hunted by bounty hunters there, the people of Nar Shadaa don't hate them, though.
Peragus? The logs show that some workers wanted to sell the Exile to the Exchange and some were against it. Greed doesn't equal hate.
Onderon?? Telos???

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Old 02-09-2006, 05:30 PM   #119
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True. In the words of Yoda, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." The administration even laid down the law at Peragus that the Exile wasn't to be sold. The way I see it, people viewed the Jedi with suspicion or greed. To get back on topic, I believe I said I wanted a new PC.

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Old 02-09-2006, 06:38 PM   #120
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I don't want poor Revan to have to lose his/her memory and force powers _again_! :-)

From a player point of view:
1. I want to try a new character. I've already played Revan and Exile. If I want to play them again, I can go back and play those games. While I do want to find out what happens to Revan/Exile in K3, I'm perfectly content to let my own character find out their story as a part of the game. That way, I don't have to deal with the 'lost the force issue'--I can just start as a new Padawan with incredible force potential who gets training and then goes out to save/conquer the universe.
2. I don't want someone pre-determining skills/feats/alignment/etc. for me on Revan or Exile, and the writers would have to do that to a certain extent. I sure don't want to spend an hour at the beginning of K3 building out Revan or Exile to get to the game. When TSL came out, I couldn't wait to get past the character creation screen and into the game itself, and I know I'll feel the same in K3. When K3 finally does come out, I don't want to spend a ton of time creating the character at the beginning based on who I thought my ideal Revan/Exile was in the first 2 games.
3. The game needs to be relatively stand-alone so that you can play K3 without having to have played the first 2. Not every player who will play K3 will have played 1 or 2 first. There are any number of people who have played TSL without having played K1 first. TSL and K3 are not modules of K1, they're separate games. These new players aren't going to have a clue on how to build out a Revan or Exile if they've never played those games before. While the games can be linked in a small (or not-so-small) way story-wise, they still need to all be independent games.

From a writing point of view--writing dialog trees is challenging. If you put Revan _or_ the Exile in the story, you have to come up with 4 variations of some dialog (M/F, DS/LS). If you have both Revan _and_ Exile, you have to have 16 variations of some dialog (four squared--if you draw out diagrams for each permutation, it's easier to picture). While I'm not a professional writer, I do enjoy writing to some degree, but I would find it really boring to write 16 versions of the same dialog in some places to accommodate the multiple choices and then try to write responses based on all 16 choices. If you have multiple responses to 16 different possibilities, it rapidly becomes a nightmare to write and track everything and maintain good story continuity. It's much easier to come up with a new 'clean' story that can stand on its own with or without Revan/Exile info, and then add some Revan/Exile stories in for those of us who've played before to satisfy our curiosity on how their stories played out.

Do I want to find out what happens with Revan/Exile? You bet. However, I want my own new character to go off adventuring in new ways. The SW galaxy's a big place with lots of cool things to do and people to meet. I don't want to be locked in to someone else's idea of who/what Revan and Exile were.


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