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Old 02-13-2006, 02:21 PM   #1
Cheeseinator
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Useless Frigates

Why the heck are the frigates so dang useless? First of all, the corellian corvette isn't a frigate and I think that victory class II thing is made up The Acclamator is supposded to be a capital ship, and the banking clan frigate is missing it's huge kick-@$$ gun that is supposed to be deadly to large ships.

Now for the useless part:

How come they only have 4-5 turrets on them? How come they have no sheilds? and how come on space mygeeto the 3rd frigates have NO GUNS at all?

And it seems like the GCW space battles got kinda ripped off. the frigates are small and they don't get a fun one like space mygeeto that has 3 frigates per side.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:43 PM   #2
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well, the fragats are for you to "frag"

Basically something for you to shoot at and get points...

Yes its quite lame I know, they should at least put some shields of those guys.
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:44 PM   #3
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Yeah but how lame would it be with no frigates at all?



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Old 02-13-2006, 06:48 PM   #4
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You know something that would add a little excitment? Being able to use the frigates.


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Old 02-14-2006, 06:00 AM   #5
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Yeah, they're kinda useless but I think they fufill their desired purpose of basicly just floating around and attempting to cheap kill people, and as an objective to destroy. Even if it's not the most useful thing in the world.

In fact I find those cannons to be uncannily accurate, I almost always get killed by a bloody auto turret at least once per game...*hides face in shame*

Now being able to use frigates is a good idea (although somehow familier) twould be cool I say.


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Old 02-14-2006, 10:47 AM   #6
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extreemly unuseful even if their turrets are pretty accurate (note try boosting away as soon as possible once they start shootin ya


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Old 02-14-2006, 03:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid
Now being able to use frigates is a good idea (although somehow familier)
Then we might as well get into the 'Should capital ships be controllable?' debate, but that's been beaten to death already.
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Old 02-14-2006, 07:44 PM   #8
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i think i came up with the control the frigate idea



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Old 02-14-2006, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
Then we might as well get into the 'Should capital ships be controllable?' debate, but that's been beaten to death already.
Nah.....frigates aren't as big and would make more sense to control. Plus I personally think controlling the Capital ship be stupid unless the maps were more expansive and more capital ships.


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Old 02-14-2006, 08:27 PM   #10
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I think a real-time strategy like control system for frigates/capital ships would actually make the most sense. Not necessarily by giving orders to other ships (though this would be extremely good!), but more in the manner of selecting turrets and then clicking on targets that they would fire at / distributing power to shields/repair/weapons or such things. I believe this would be sensible because frigates/capital ships are far too slow to occupy a possible pilot sufficiently and it would be better to give him more things to do than just playing turret-gunner. Navigating the ship could also be handled in rts-manner - or in the usual way. Sadly, it's pretty unlikely that such a complicated measure will be introduced - but I would find it quite exciting. Not sure if that could possibly work - it would definitely be better if the pilot were given additional command responsiblities, e.g. as a team captain- but it WOULD be different in any case. And this game can surely use more options and diversity ...


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Old 02-15-2006, 04:10 PM   #11
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Well, thing is, controling the frag-its makes them less of just a frag-it, but something useful.

Also its better than making the big Mothership controlable, cause if anything you only lose a little frag to the n00bz and not the entire good ship having the exit blocked by a freaking space rock deliberately, or by bad piloting.

Also I would like the fragits getting more firepower. Even if its just "shot the nearest ship" it would be great if its pilotable, better if there is a small cannon on it.

Asking for controlable guns/turrets would be bad cause then all firepower would be directed towards enemy mothership, making it more of a ship fight than a dog fight.
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:34 AM   #12
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Remember, this is Battlefront, not Battlefield, keep n00b unfriendly ideas by the door, please. :P

We need aimable turrents for the max in friendly fire casualties and matches to last 30 seconds as everyone just does an Episode 3 and blows the other ship to pieces. :P


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Old 02-16-2006, 09:41 AM   #13
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Maybe someone could make a mod that adds more AI and more frigates,capital ships,and fighters...



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Old 02-16-2006, 02:21 PM   #14
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Then its shipfight not dog fight... Its more fun to fly an Xwing than a frag-it
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Old 02-16-2006, 06:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Obi-Wan
Nah.....frigates aren't as big and would make more sense to control. Plus I personally think controlling the Capital ship be stupid unless the maps were more expansive and more capital ships.
How does it make more sense to control a capital ship than a frigate? I'm sure any commander wouldn't want his primary ship annihilated by fighters simply because he can't move. Also, if frigates only were able to be controlled, most of the fighting would center in the middle of the space battle, while the capital ships just sit and wait unless their forces in the main skirmish are destroyed.
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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Then its shipfight not dog fight... Its more fun to fly an Xwing than a frag-it
This is a space battle, not a dogfight. A space battle includes dogfighting, along with ship-to-ship combat and boarding actions. If there was an exclusive dogfighting-only mode, then it would make sense to not have controllable capital ships or none at all. But a space battle is a variety of combat forms. Besides, I think it would be cool to maneuver a Venator so it could broadside a CIS cruiser.
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Old 02-16-2006, 06:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
How does it make more sense to control a capital ship than a frigate?
Size.


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Old 02-17-2006, 01:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
How does it make more sense to control a capital ship than a frigate?
............
**!!SNAP!!**
This is a space battle, not a dogfight. A space battle includes dogfighting, along with ship-to-ship combat and boarding actions. If there was an exclusive dogfighting-only mode, then it would make sense to not have controllable capital ships or none at all. But a space battle is a variety of combat forms. Besides, I think it would be cool to maneuver a Venator so it could broadside a CIS cruiser.
Well, imagine a n00b controlling the frigate. Wprsde of all you get a dead frigate due to dumb decisions, and lost the ship(some points) and a few guys. NOW, you launch all fighters out of the capital ship. A n00b controlling it can basically screw up the whole game by placing it in stupid positions.

Also, if there are a bunch of BIG SHIPS then fighters will be quite outgunned, and most people will want to get the big ships, which are quite limited in numbers, so there will hardly be any player controlled fighters at all, not fun.

I mean, player controlled ship-2-ship combat can be fun, but thats not for BF2, or BF3 for that matter. I mean, ships the size of MF(or other YT series) would be the biggest "suggested size" for the game. I think someone did make a flyable MF/YT-1300 back in BF1. Now I would really want a YT-2000 ... but a YT-2400 would also be great.
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:03 PM   #18
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Why should the game be designed around how a minority of twits would abuse it? The only thought they should be givin is the addition of a "vote to boot" button in my opinion.

Now, it's true that some people might make bad decisions and lead to a frigate/capital ship loss due more to lack of expirence than malice. I say this is to be expected in a game like battlefront. Not everyone is going to be an expert, some newer guys (and even a few vets) make mistakes. It happens. Just a game I say, chalk it up to experience and try to do better next time.

If people are really uptight about the potential for mess ups, then they could add a point filter sort of like speacial classes. So you have to work your way up to controlling a capital ship/frigate. Make it customizable I say (actually I say this about nearly everything...) So if you want only elite players flying your ships so be it. If you want a more relaxed settings where people can do whatever, and possibly mess up then thats cool as well as far as I'm concerned.


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Old 02-17-2006, 04:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Commander Obi-Wan
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Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
How does it make more sense to control a capital ship than a frigate?
Size.
Take a look at the Republic's frigate (which should be a cruiser more than anything), and then look at the Venator. The Acclimator is bigger than the frontal section of the Venator. Now tell me that isn't a capital ship, especially when compared to the Rebel's frigate; it's frickin' huge next to the corvette. Besides, it's supposed to be difficult to maneuver a capital ship, not a walk in the park.
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Also, if there are a bunch of BIG SHIPS then fighters will be quite outgunned, and most people will want to get the big ships, which are quite limited in numbers, so there will hardly be any player controlled fighters at all, not fun.
How many capital ships do you think there'd be in a space battle? I think 2 capital ships and 3 frigates (each filled with plenty of fighters, bombers, etc.) per team would be plenty; plus it would vary in the number of big ships per map. Also, on the next-generation systems, they would most likely be able to handle a larger number of AI/human players so space battles wouldn't feel empty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid
Why should the game be designed around how a minority of twits would abuse it? The only thought they should be givin is the addition of a "vote to boot" button in my opinion.

Now, it's true that some people might make bad decisions and lead to a frigate/capital ship loss due more to lack of expirence than malice. I say this is to be expected in a game like battlefront. Not everyone is going to be an expert, some newer guys (and even a few vets) make mistakes. It happens. Just a game I say, chalk it up to experience and try to do better next time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid
If people are really uptight about the potential for mess ups, then they could add a point filter sort of like speacial classes. So you have to work your way up to controlling a capital ship/frigate. Make it customizable I say (actually I say this about nearly everything...) So if you want only elite players flying your ships so be it. If you want a more relaxed settings where people can do whatever, and possibly mess up then thats cool as well as far as I'm concerned.
This I think would work. Also taken into consideration could be the number of teamkills verses enemy kills that a player has, thus weeding out many of the treacherous TKers.
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #20
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Yes ... a commander piloting a capital ship - this would indeed be great! And I do agree that it should be possible to accomplish ... after all, doesn't it already work in a couple of other tactical multiplayer shooters? Sure, it might be problematic sometimes and won't always work smoothly, plus - it is almost guaranteed that some people will find a way to abuse this. But that's not an unsolvable obstacle!
However, my guess is that the technical part is the bigger problem. A huge capital ship that actually MOVES around - complete with its own interior and bots and players also moving and fighting aboard it? Could be hard on our poor computers ... wouldn't it draw too much processor power? On the other hand, there are those big carriers in Battlefield that do exactly that, although they are perhaps a bit less complex. Well, I don't know. Anyway, frigates certainly should be manageable ... and yes, making them more sensible sounds like a very good idea indeed. And - in either case - there ought to be SOME kind of option for a team commander that actually is able to coordinate all this wild fighting. And - as I said - I do think that the bridge of a capital ship or a frigate would be the ideal place for him (or her, we are a highly civilized community ). Coordinating the team's attack and his own ship at the same time. Imagine: an actual bridge - with officers and guards standing around (well, a few at least) and an admiral, bent over a holo-map of the battlefield, who has to be defended against an enemy's boarding party. Now THAT would be fun ... in my humble opinion, anyway.


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Old 02-18-2006, 04:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
Listen to ParanoidAndroid you all must. A wise being is he/she/it/whatever.

This I think would work. Also taken into consideration could be the number of teamkills verses enemy kills that a player has, thus weeding out many of the treacherous TKers.
Well, there is a reason why many places have FF=OFF on many servers.

It makes the game generally more enjoyable.

Yes, a vote2boot is good for the game, so did a vote2depose function to kick someone off piloting a big vehicle(like a flagship) should they be pilotable.
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Old 02-18-2006, 09:45 PM   #22
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Imagine: an actual bridge - with officers and guards standing around (well, a few at least) and an admiral, bent over a holo-map of the battlefield, who has to be defended against an enemy's boarding party. Now THAT would be fun ... in my humble opinion, anyway.
That would be nice, though it could also serve as the place where some turrents could be manned and where a command post on the ship would be. Also, should the map be like the map in the Confederacy war room in Episode II? To me it would be more of a gimmick than anythng, as all other players currently can bring up their own map.
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:17 PM   #23
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I think that would be cool, I would love to see an actual bridge, complete with commander NPC's running around and a holo-map would be cool as well. It would be really great if the ship commander (be he player or bot) could plot courses using the holo-map. Maybe it could be an actual unlockable class, the ship commander armed only with a pistol but with the ability to command the ship.


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Old 02-19-2006, 07:47 AM   #24
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Sounds cool. I would make the pistol decent though. After all, what if his ship gets invaded? Also, it has to be a Mon Calamari for the rebels! It has to! "It's a trap!"

Well, it makes space battles more interesting. You have a lot more options on what to do rather than buzzing around. The people lamer at flying can do invasions, the tactical minded could move the cap ships or frigates, and people can man guns or defend the ships if invaded.

Mind you, I think we need vocal messages of WTF is going on though (unless comm relay is destroyed!) such as "Command ship moving, frigate moving, frigate is under attack, Command ship has been infiltrated" etc. Just make it a once only message only repeated every minute if the situation is urgent (like an invasion that hasn't been repelled yet).


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Old 02-19-2006, 12:24 PM   #25
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I've nothing against a decent pistol for an admiral - though I think that slightly higher health (personal deflector shield?), a few Stormtrooper guards & a bit of team coordination (Don't let those pesky rebels get their dirty paws on our admiral!) might be sufficient. After all, he doesn't need to be a jedi-in-disguise ... defending him( or her) is mainly the job of others.
About the planning part - well, the holo map might well look like that in Episode 2, Darth Andrew ... (though my vision of the bridge looks more like that of a star destroyer ... ... but we've got every side in Battlefront anyway - and yes, we do also need a Mon Calamari's bridge (yes- definitely with a Mon Calamari admiral!) that can be invaded by brave imperial marines!) ... yet it need not even reflect the actual combat situation, that would indeed be a gimmick, I suppose - it would probably be a static image, that you can access to go to the real command map. This, of course, would lead to the necessity of sensible voice commands Redtech mentioned. The current babble that's going on in the hangar (Deck X is on fire!) or in space (There's a fighter behind you!) is quite atmospheric but largely completely irrelevant & inaccurate (A fighter?? I just launched from the hangar, and that's everything that's behind me! And there IS just one deck and - no, it is not on fire!) - and that's a shame. You do not really get the impression that there's a large, coordinated battle going on (...perhaps because there isn't ...). How about a commander that can give you orders like 'Attack that target!', that you can acknowledge by pressing a button - which gives you a lock on that target? Or of course the 'Ship is being boarded' /'Bridge under Fire' kind of warning Redtech mentioned. Those are just simple things that could already make a big difference ... I think our views on this are very very compatible
In any case, making the bridge an additional command post or the place where turrets can be operated would make sense, too. I also agree with Paranoid Android. Officers & techs running around surely would give the bridge the proper kind of feeling. Officers in proper imperial naval uniforms, of course. And, for example, good old Thrawn as an admiral. And more classes to choose from! More pilot uniforms! Properly clad imperial marines with black helmets! Space troopers that can launch into space and fight there! Repair teams, following the orders of the admiral to repair damaged ship systems! Emergency light and zero-g when life support fails! Oh well ... some of it anyway I could go on forever about all the possibilities ...


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Old 02-19-2006, 12:59 PM   #26
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That actually sounds like an interesting idea for a mod. Ambitious, but could be quite cool...


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Old 02-20-2006, 10:11 AM   #27
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Probably, I think it's better not to clutter with excess bots doing "nothing" but running around the bridge though. I mean they're useless enough without sucking processor powere pretending to run the ship! How about if weapon control is via the bridge, so if you bomb it you have to manually use the turrents (ala episode 3).

Of course I'm assuming that the turrents in the old films are autoloaders anyway..hmm.


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Old 02-20-2006, 11:03 AM   #28
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I think some NPC's running around the ship would give the space battle an appropriate atmosphere and maybe some usefulness. Maybe some technicians auto repairing, some guards patrolling or gunners who automaticly man turret stations. Basicly just a skeleton crew that makes sure it's a bit of a challenge to take on Cap. Ships even if no players are bothering to repair/guard/man turrets. Commanders on the bridge would be a nice touch, but not necessary in my opinion.

I think I would prefer turret controls being in their own seperate gunnery room, but maybe it could be a part of a bridge, or maybe a room that directly leads into it.


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Old 02-20-2006, 01:44 PM   #29
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I think I would prefer turret controls being in their own seperate gunnery room, but maybe it could be a part of a bridge, or maybe a room that directly leads into it.
Where the gunnery room(s) is/are located could also show where the turrents are on the ship. So if one room is on the same level as the bridge, that gunnery station controls the turrents on top of the ship, while the other gunnery station located on the main level controls the turrents on the ship's underside. This would be a little more difficult to pull off on a Mon Calamari Cruiser (as the bridges on them are very small); maybe one of the gunnery stations would be directly under the bridge?
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Old 02-20-2006, 04:03 PM   #30
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Multiple gunnery rooms could also be fine - it would lead to a bigger ship-map in any case. Mmmh .. while thinking about that: how about a special engine/security room that needs to be blown up in order for invaders to be able to enter the bridge?
But back to the problem of the bridge crew: While Redtech certainly has a point when he complains about how a decor-only crew would just waste processor power, an empty bridge seems to be somewhat unatmospheric. Originally I had thought of just the admiral (in my opinion pretty much essential and nearly the whole point of having a bridge), his bodyguards -e.g. Stormtroopers-(pc-controlled bots of the aggressive type) and technical personnel (pc-controlled bots of the passive type, clad in the appropriate worker uniforms as seen e.g. in the last episode). As both types of bots can already be seen acting in maps like Geonosis or Kashyyk (and guards wouldn't even need to roam around very far)- or Mos Eisley (passive like the Javas in non-hunt mode) I believed that this would be a rather simple idea. But giving them a function like Darth Andrew and Paranoid Android suggested would certainly be even better - if that could be feasible. As there are usually already bots around that operate turret terminals, this seems to be quite possible indeed. Though I'd prefer it if they would wear different uniforms than the pilots. How about having bots control a part of the guns automatically from the bridge - and leaving the control of the rest as an option to players in a seperate room? Well ... that or to the admiral, of course. Or both. Anyway - automatic repair teams would be a good idea, too. It might need a little bit of fiddling with balance (they should not be too good at that business - or maybe player pilots with fusion cutters should be made less helpful) & ideally be controlled by the admiral (reapair by priority - weapons first, then shields or something like that - naturally that's only sensible if there really ARE any negative factors in having systems beside shields non-operational). This, however, might even lead to the point of making boarding combat a very sensible choice!


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Old 02-20-2006, 05:14 PM   #31
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Why not have new classes instead of special NPCs so the game will feel more unified? Here are some general ideas:

Marine class - Equipped with an automatic rifle, four grenades, and instead of a rocket launcher, a blaster, as using rocket launchers in ships is illlogical. Maybe the absence of the rocket launcher could be countered with a few turrents in a capital ship's hanger to stop boardings.

Pilot class - Equipped with a blaster and two grenades, it's the only space class that can use a craft's boost and dodging abilities. It can also slowly heal the craft it's piloting. The pilot can also use unmanned enemy craft, and it's the only class able to do so.

Engineer class - Equipped with a blast cannon (shotgun with lasers instead of bullets, unlike Battlefront II ), fusioncutter (can repair turrents, craft, and open locked doors), and three detpacks, this class is perfect for boarding operations and destroying interior ship systems. When using a capital ship turrent, it auto-repairs it just like the pilot can to craft.

Officer class - Equipped with a high-powered automatic blaster, electrobinoculars, and a morale boost, this class is great on both the front lines and behind them. It uses it's morale boost (rage, courage, etc.) to help allies' fighting skills, which can turn the tide of a battle. But the most interesting tool is the officer's electrobinoculars. Besides being able to see far off points of interest, it can use the electrobinoculars to target a frigate, a capital ship, or a seperate component of a frigate or capital ship to be assaulted by a barrage of laserfire from three fighters. These fighters hyperspace into the battle, strafe the target, and leave, unless they are destroyed. They are the exact same as a normal fighter.

I can't really come up with any ideas for a guard class, except for a sonic rifle that can damage and knock down a target at the same time; to me, it would seem too gimmicky. Also, the officer class sort of runs into the admiral's role, but I think the officer would play more of a direct role in combat than the admiral.

Last edited by Darth Andrew; 02-20-2006 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:50 PM   #32
Coraan Talme
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Ah! Perfect! Yes, of COURSE we need new classes! The restriction to the two we currently have never made sense to me ... And what a wonderful opportunity for new classes and skins! Though I don't think that those classes are necessarily those of the bridge crew ...
Anyway: I love your pilot idea! It makes perfect sense to me - and a few grenades would make the pilot more entertaining in boarding fights ( a better blaster pistol might help, too - after all, we poor guys lost our mortar launchers & health packs since BF1 ...)
Your Engineers are a good idea, too! Perhaps they could also keep the usual health/ammo packs and ... deployable turrets?
As I still have this image of imperial marines as ... well ... imperial marines (the black clad guys with the big helmets and pistols you see as guards in the Death Star ... though sadly not in BF2's death star), I think they should be a less heavily armed class that is available in greater numbers than the special guards (well armed stormtroopers and others ...). Perhaps marines should have grenades and be faster while regular troops carry heavy explosives and a larger, slower blaster.
As to your idea of officers ... well the regular equipment surely fits in - yet I'm not so sure about those electrobinoculars. Where would they use them?? You probably don't mean that they should be looking through the hangar entrance and wildly focus any bypassing target and you do not really need binoculars in the narrow ship corridors... So - on board a fighter?? Well, they certainly might use the abilities you describe here, sounds interesting, but in that case I would suggest another name. How about simply 'command' or 'call in support/strike/reinforcements'? The image of an officer on board a fighter wearing binoculars over their helmet - well ... it's a little odd
Speaking of helmets: for the sake of Star-War's atmosphere and variation: the officers/admirals should NOT carry those big helmets but proper uniforms (of course this applies only to Rebels and Imperials ... I do not want to suggest droids in uniform .... though this might be entertaining )!
By the way: as a method of introducing EVEN MORE new classes (I am tired of shooting at rebels in orange uniforms - when reviewing the holo documentations of our enemies, you can see a lot more than that, and we loyal imperial pilots do have some specialised uniforms for tie bomber pilots, too - I'm quite sure of that): how about more than one type of pilot? Maybe as a specialised ace pilot /heavy fighter pilot. He might have different maneuvers than the standard one - or perhaps more speed /armour /fire power on board special or all vessels ... maybe at the cost of a lower repair rate. His shipboard fighting equipment might be different, too - concussion grenades, mines, stun guns - whatever! I'd even be happy if there were just different skins for different space battles, yet I believe there could be more than that!
Besides, I already mentioned space troopers ... maybe as the replacement of dark troopers in space battles. Actually, I got this idea from Timothy Zahn's series in the expanded universe. You know, that rebel propaganda writer - but he had some interesting ideas. I like the concept of troopers that could launch from a hangar and fight in space in just their bulky suit. Of course they wouldn't be very good at sustaining hits from fighter fire( but would have high armour compared to regular soldiers), and they should be not that fast & maneuverable, too ( at least on board capital ships - they should move sluggishly, have a high damage but slooow weapon and certainly NOT be able to roll around) - but they'd be very small targets and might deal quite some damage with - I think there arms were described as torpedo launchers - anyway, some sort of heavy - possibly guided- weaponry. There are further interesting possibilities: while their suit would definitely be too awkward to allow them to enter a fighter's cockpit, they could certainly be a passanger aboard a shuttle. Which they could depart in mid-space or while the shuttle hovers aboard the enemy capital ship ... For the historical clone wars era, just think of these crawling little robots that love to hop on & harm enemy ships. There are TONS of great tricks and tactical twists that could be done with such things ... and there's even more that could be added ... speaking of guards - how about these guys:


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Last edited by Coraan Talme; 02-20-2006 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 02-20-2006, 08:12 PM   #33
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I love the idea of adding more classes to space battles, although I might say that commanders could pilot capital ships (if implimented) and pilots are the only ones who can pilot space vehicles. Although this might be too specialized.

I was also thinking NPC's could fufill more mundane functions that players normally typically don't do. for example a guard class armed only with a pistol, that just patrols the ship for minimal defence, or a gunner class that mans turrets if no actual players are their to do so. To me I don't think these guys should warrent actual "classes" just guys running around to help keep the fights interesting.

Also I like the idea of the "security center" I had an idea about a similer room once, It would be a secondary command post that guards the corridors to the bridge, so borders must capture it at one point or another, it could fufill the strategic function of maybe controlling all auto turrets within the capital ship (and maybe allowing players direct control to these) and giving certian players (maybe commanders?) the ability to "lock down" all the doors in a certain area's on the ship, changing them from being automatic to being permenetly closed, so if the borders don't have an engineer with then their in a pretty tight spot. It could also serve as a spawn point for "security" NPC's if the guys are used.


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Old 02-20-2006, 08:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coraan Talme
As to your idea of officers ... well the regular equipment surely fits in - yet I'm not so sure about those electrobinoculars. Where would they use them?? You probably don't mean that they should be looking through the hangar entrance and wildly focus any bypassing target and you do not really need binoculars in the narrow ship corridors... So - on board a fighter?? Well, they certainly might use the abilities you describe here, sounds interesting, but in that case I would suggest another name. How about simply 'command' or 'call in support/strike/reinforcements'? The image of an officer on board a fighter wearing binoculars over their helmet - well ... it's a little odd
Actually, I figured the officer would use the electrobinoculars from the bridge, but I do agree the idea is a bit odd for space combat anyway. The problem is: how would the officer call in the strike? That's how I came to the idea of electrobinoculars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coraan Talme
By the way: as a method of introducing EVEN MORE new classes... how about more than one type of pilot? Maybe as a specialized ace pilot /heavy fighter pilot. He might have different maneuvers than the standard one - or perhaps more speed /armour /fire power on board special or all vessels ... maybe at the cost of a lower repair rate. His shipboard fighting equipment might be different, too - concussion grenades, mines, stun guns - whatever! I'd even be happy if there were just different skins for different space battles, yet I believe there could be more than that!
Hmm. The problem with that is that the game would start to become too complicated, as we might as well introduce varying degrees of grenade troopers. Though it would be nice if there were other pilot skins, though I don't know any other types other than those in the movies. It could work if players could customize their skins for each class of each side; I think that would be pretty sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coraan Talme
speaking of guards - how about those guys:
The problem with using the Royal Guard is that they (to me) aren't suited to a battlefield where hundreds of expendable units are slaughtered. The Royal Guard was the best of the best from stormtrooper ranks, and seeing how most stormtroopers FAILED AT LIFE (based off the movies ), Royal Guard would be hard to come by. Instead, maybe the Imperial guard class could be the men that carried off Ozzel's body in ESB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid
Also I like the idea of the "security center" I had an idea about a similer room once, It would be a secondary command post that guards the corridors to the bridge, so borders must capture it at one point or another, it could fufill the strategic function of maybe controlling all auto turrets within the capital ship (and maybe allowing players direct control to these) and giving certian players (maybe commanders?) the ability to "lock down" all the doors in a certain area's on the ship, changing them from being automatic to being permenetly closed, so if the borders don't have an engineer with then their in a pretty tight spot. It could also serve as a spawn point for "security" NPC's if the guys are used.
That's a really cool idea. Now I'm getting way too far ahead of myself, but it would be awesome if you could turn off the shielding that protects the hanger from this security center. "In space, no one can hear you scream."
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:11 PM   #35
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i think on capital ships, the enemy should be able to capture sections
but in the bridge, the captain could vent atmosphere in thoose sections
this would kill every thing in the section, but owuld make the area useless to every1
oh and usable security cameras would be a useless but cool addidtion
finaly i think that there should be multiple capital ships and they should have a few levals of hangers possibly 1 with fighters, 1 with multi p ships and 1 with bombers and transports



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Old 02-20-2006, 10:06 PM   #36
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Multiple levels of hangers would be kind of pointless. If all the hangers were the size of the CIS cruiser's, all ship types could fit comfortably. But I do agree with you that there should be multiple ships; two capital ships and three frigates could be the max (per side), but it would vary from map to map.
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:22 AM   #37
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Nice ideas. I'm not a fan of only pilots being able to fly though, but they should have benefits and I think it'd be better to leave all the flying "l33tness" to pilots as well, rather than having them replaced by specialised pilot classes. Heck, it should be at least possible for an "Admiral" class to lead an invasion if need be, they wont be limited to one per team that's for sure, and they may be very useful for aiding an invasion!

I would prefer if all classes were capable of attempting something that the other classes can, even if they aren't brilliant at it. So all classes should be able to fly, just some not as well (e.g. no self heal or boost) or fight (with varying poorness of weaponry) or sabotage (from sllicing to just lobbing grenades).

No, I don't want homeogenicity, but more along the lines of not being completely ruined if you're in a bad situation. Also, I'm thinking that enemy captains should be able to slice consoles to take over stations, or some other evilness, so instead of destroying stations, you have the option of capturing them. Yep, nab the engines and send the ship careering out of control...


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Old 02-21-2006, 10:31 AM   #38
Coraan Talme
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Good point - and I actually do support this. I think neither I nor Darth Andrew meant that pilotting ships should be restricted to pilots (specialised pilots were just meant to be a further variation). And while I'm not so sure about the sense of Admirals leading a boarding maneuver in person ... it may have some charm. Should be risky but ...well, why not? Certainly all classes should be capable of handling personal combat at least to some degree. And the space troopers I mentioned ought to be the only exception in not being able to fly fighters. Just like droidekas can't pilot vehicles. I think this exception makes sense, as they are somehow vehicles themselves.
Concerning the problem ... Darth Andrew, be certain: I, as a mere pilot, wouldn't dare to dream of using Royal Guards as cannon fodder. I don't want to meet that mean guy with the very special black armour and slightly unforgiving attitude to failures ... I just like those emperor's special guards and am really in favour of adding them in some form to this simulation. For example as bodyguards for a REALLY important admiral. Standard ship guard NPC's should be either black clad marines or stormtroopers (with black-clad marines as standard forces for players).
As to all those suggestions about venting the atmosphere out of rooms ... well - to be sure -that would be a nasty little surprise for invaders. Perhaps a bit too powerful, however, though some classes (e.g. space troopers) might be immune to that. I think I prefer Paranoid Android's suggestion of lockable sections that are controlled by the security room (Jawa's security camera's would indeed be a fitting gimmick for that one, I think). And yes ... having bots handle the more boring tasks sounds exactly right. After all, which player really wants to spend the game standing around the admiral and twiddling his fingers till the evil invaders finally manage to make their way to the bridge? Or keeping their fingers on the right mouse button for hours repairing ship systems? Finally, I'm also in favour of more frigate variation for the space battles. What about a battle, where the puny rebels have to destroy this .... interdictor? ... kind of imperial vessel that prevents them from entering hyperspace. Or heavily armed Nebulon B frigates as a REALLY dangerous escort ... or even another, smaller, type of capital ship ... complete with it's own, different interior (in that case, probably as a replacement of the regular capital ship - more diversity=more fun). What about a battle where there are just corvettes launching fighters and fighting each other? Or those tie carrier things ... A space station? A super star destroyer (I dearly love those things)? One side's fighters coming out of hyperspace while only the other one has to defend a capital ship? An asteroid base? A mine field? A nebula? A freighter convoy (perhaps a neat idea for Galactic conquest ...)? There's a hole fleet of vessels begging to be included ... like assault gun boats or stormtrooper transports or (I guess I should stop ).


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Old 02-21-2006, 08:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coraan Talme
What about a battle where there are just corvettes launching fighters and fighting each other? Or those tie carrier things ... A space station? A super star destroyer (I dearly love those things)? One side's fighters coming out of hyperspace while only the other one has to defend a capital ship? An asteroid base? A mine field? A nebula? A freighter convoy (perhaps a neat idea for Galactic conquest ...)?
That would be cool. One interesting battle could be you and the enemy attacking each other, but in the middle is a pirate space station that will attack both sides (with Z-95s launching alongside piratish transports). You could ignore them, destroy them, or the most useful solution, capture the station. That would pressure your orignal enemy greatly.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:48 PM   #40
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i think having to deal with enviroment sorta things would be cool



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