lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: A COMPREHENSIVE review of OJP E, Feb. '06
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 02-24-2006, 02:38 PM   #41
Kyle Kelasheski
Rookie
 
Kyle Kelasheski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 72
Three bugs to report:

1.I have finally pinned down one event that's part of the whole "thrown saber turns red" bug. You'll need TWO .pk3s to replicate exactly what happened for me. Both links to the downloads can be found here: http://pcgamemods.com/mod/16158.html On this map, whenever I throw my saber and it hits the underside of a bridge, my saber sticks there and turns red.

2. In FFA, whenever I exit a match the player/bot count automatically goes up by one. I wonder if this is related in any way to the "kill limit goes up by 1" bug I reported earlier.

3. Maps do not automatically rotate between matches. Is this because I frequently have Kill Limits set to 0 for most of the game types I play?


Yours,

Kyle
Feb. 24, 2006



.

Kyle Kelasheski is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-24-2006, 02:54 PM   #42
Lathain Valtiel
Ex-Angel
 
Lathain Valtiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 929
LFN Staff Member 
It probably has sometghing to do with shaders... Or at least I wouldn't be surprised.


Kurgan's Meatgrinder (JA Server: 72.5.248.212:29070)

Player tested, Valtiel approved.

Valtiel approved downloads for Meatgrinder: http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/downloads.shtml
Lathain Valtiel is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-24-2006, 03:04 PM   #43
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
1. Um, yeah. I can't fix bugs caused by the crazy @$$ stuff that other moders dump in their asset files. Baring an actual problem with the code in reference to said mod, I can't be responsible for PPP in other mods. If you want to fix it on your own, just dig around in those .pk3s and look for stuff that might conflict with OJP.

2. Nope, it's just that spectating humans don't count towards the bot limit. As per requested by Kurgan.

3. Set the g_autoMapCycle to 1.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 01:29 AM   #44
Kyle Kelasheski
Rookie
 
Kyle Kelasheski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 72
Razorace and Lathain,

Thank you for your replies concerning the above "3 bugs" report.



Here’s my assessment of v. 8 of OJP E:

1. The bot matches are lasting significantly longer, and that's a good thing. It means that they're more formidable than before.

2. For some reason, a number of the saber trails are looking much longer than they did in the last build. I don't know if I'm seeing things or not, but I certainly can't recall seeing swings that looked like these: [img=http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8231/v8sabertrailstoolong2examples3.th.jpg] They almost look like portions of animations taken from katas. Please note that in my Base directory I have installed the "NewBladesV4" saber mod, and it is in use in the above images. Thanks to JRHockney*’s GREAT introductory manual (found here: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161367 ) I now know that these super long saber trails are intentional. Please shorten these greatly extended and jagged-arced saber trails, as they look very different from anything else we've seen in any of the films. Perhaps a solid balance could be achieved with conveying information to the players by universally shortening ALL of the saber trails by 65-70%, or at the very least 50%. This way, the length of the saber trails are still conveying important data to the players, while also simultaneously looking much more like the films. See point 10 for me details.

3. I liked how my saber was batted out of my hand when I was knocked back. That's a very nice and believable touch. What I also liked is that I had to make a conscious decision to reactivate my saber blade after it had returned from my hand. I feel that this design decision should be used every time the saber is called back to the player. Right now, if the saber is Force thrown, it will automatically turn back on once it returns to the player's hands. If possible, disable the automatic turn ons when the saber returns to the player's hands at the end of saber throw. To me, this extra step makes the event more immersive. After all, why would the blade be turned on automatically for this one Force power? Isn't it enough for this power to send the saber great distances towards a target and then to call it back? This could also add an extra level of tactics to the game. Someone who's badly wounded, hiding in the shadows, could try to get some sneak attacks in by using saber throw, and at the same time maintain some secrecy when the blade returns to his/her hand, and then does NOT ignite. Nothing gives one's position away more quickly than a loudly igniting and glowing object! This tactic would also be more successful if the strange yellow glow was disabled for the returning saber hilt. Why does it glow yellow anyway?

4. Exhaustion Effects on the Speed of Staggers and the Length of Saber Trails: Why do staggers take place so slowly? Shouldn't the staggering player get knocked into this position quickly and then slowly try to recover his wits and sense of gravity from the powerful blow? Also, another potentially great indicator of exhaustion could be achieved by linking together the length of one's saber trail to how tired the swinger is. The more tired they are, the slower they swing, and the slower the swing, the shorter the trail. So, if we were to have a fresh duelist standing beside a tired one, and they both executed the same swing, they'd still look different. The tired duelist would have a slower saber swing and thus his/her saber would produce a shorter trail. This would be a great tool for assessing the state of an opponent or ally.

5. Several times I couldn't easily leap feet first into my opponent after he/she knocked me down to the ground. Why is this feature so different from the last release? What makes this so glaring to me is that it seems that the bots are still operating without seemingly having to endure the same limitations. Time and again, I’ve seen them leap up at me from the ground within what seems like a 60 degree arc, while I’m lucky to respond in kind within a much more limited 15 degree arc.

6. If the player’s view is 3rd. person and a saberlock occurs, automatically engage a “4th. person view” ala the Lord of the Rings games. This way we get a clear and exciting view of the struggle instead of having our head/shoulders blocking everything. Check out this mod to more clearly understand what I’m mentioning here: http://pcgamemods.com/mod/15863.html Also take a look at this saberlock screenshot here: [img=http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8783/saberlock5superb9of.th.jpg] The saberlock image is on an exciting angle that emulates what I mean by the “4th person view.” We can clearly see what’s going on in such a view.

7. Are saber lockups influenced by the number that is entered for its cvar? Should I simply enter 0 for off or 1 for on? Does entering a number higher than 1 influence how saberlocks work in OJP E?

8. The animations look like they could use some speeding up, especially for Attack Fakes.

9. Reduce the time that is necessary to reset stances. This may be linked to point #8. Too often characters walk around with their saber temporarily “frozen” in an awkward looking position, as can be seen in this screenshot of Dooku’s arthritic shoulder suddenly seizing up: [img=http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/976/15yj2.th.jpg]

10. Attack Fakes produce saber trails that are far too long, and look completely uncinematic. In fact, they’re so long that instead of us seeing a smooth circular arc we see a rather sharply angled one. If the lengths of the saber trails were reduced by at least 50% (and I feel that 65% would be an even better figure to try) then we wouldn’t have to see the “angled arcs,” the lightsabers would look a lot more like the ones we’ve seen in the films. In fact I strongly advocate the reduction of ALL the saber trail lengths. If the trail lengths were all reduced by the same percentage, then we’d still have the valuable visual cue that an Attack Fake was being performed, because it would STILL be the longest trail that we’d see. I also highly advocate making the cores of the sabers an opaque white/near white hue, and I also advise that the amount of feathering being produced by the saber’s trails be greatly reduced, if not altogether eliminated as I can’t ever recall seeing a lightsaber arc in the film who’s glowing halo had a feathery appearance to it. As it stands right now, the saber trails are REALLY pulling me out of a sense of immersion, as they’re just visually very foreign to what we’ve seen in the films. The following collage of two screenshots illustrates my points: [img=http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2386/v8sabertrailstoolong2examples5.th.jpg]


11. Bots should start walking within at least 4 m. of any potential lightsaber wielding opponent. I seem to remember a much earlier build of OJP E that had the bots walking almost all the time, which was excessive because it took forever to close with them. However, if they could be adjusted to start walking at 4-6 m., that would create a much more believable scenario, and would also serve them from wearing themselves out too quickly.

12. Bots should quickly charge unbalanced/knocked down opponents so that they take advantage of their opponents’ drop in defenses.

13. Bots should use the new saber stances.

14. Bots should use the fullest range of their Force powers possible in matches where Force powers are allowed.

15. Force Push should work more like what we’ve seen in the films. Most of the time when it’s effective it solely pushes the target back, hopefully off of a ledge. However, Force Push in the films is a pretty debilitating attack. The target actually gets blown back and is knocked down to the ground, suffering what looks to be like some damage, or at least a nominal degree of being stunned.

16. I like how saber throw operates mechanically, but I’m not convinced by its visuals. In my mind, if a lightsaber hits you then it should almost always result in a limb decapitation, a feature that would terribly unbalance saber throw. A more convincing illusion would be to ALWAYS have the target at least partially “dodge” the thrown lightsaber that hits them. This way visually it looks like, and sensibly registers in the viewer’s mind as a thrown saber that only partially strikes its target and thus we have the justification as to why the struck area isn’t lopped off. When the target has truly depleted all of its defensive energies, then a thrown saber WOULD automatically decapitate the area that is struck.

17. Mind Trick and Force Sense could be adjusted to be much more valuable in acquiring information, rather than being a means to be “stealthy” when attacking. For example, if all Force power visual effects were deactivated, then it would become VERY valuable to perform Force Sense on the opponent to collect information on what powers he/she is currently running. The more powerful this ability is, the greater range at which one can collect this data, and at its maximum setting, we’d actually be privy to seeing a small countdown clock that indicates precisely when each power is going to shut off, and what the target’s Force power meter is at. This could be linked to seeing other attributes as well, such as how much physical energy the target still has left for defensive purposes.

Mind Trick would at the very least make its user invisible and a range of false attribute readings would be broadcast. The readings would be totally random, and would either broadcast that the user has little resources left, or that the user was fully charged for battle. At medium strength it would also produce an invisible doppelganger neighbor of its user that would replicate all of its user behaviors. The doppelganger would produce noises appropriate to its actions, so that one could hear it running and harmlessly swinging its illusionary lightsaber (this emulates Ben’s use of the Force on the Death Star to produce a false sound that coaxed the storm troopers to abandon their posts), and it too would broadcast false attribute readings that may be different from the readings its master is broadcasting. Creating confusion is the name of the game with this power. At its most powerful setting, two doppelgangers would be generated, with their positioning around the real Force User being randomly generated, and they could be given very simple orders to perform, such as “Wait here, Attack target, Return to formation,” etc., etc. The only way to completely defeat Mind Trick is to have a more powerful Force Sense rating. A rating of equal value would only reveal HALF of the misinformation that is being broadcast by the Mind Trick user.


18. After a lot of reflection, I am now convinced that stances should be linked to one’s ability to use the Force and/or melee attacks. Here’s what I mean:

A. In all of the films, when the Jedi really try to open up a can of Force whoopass, they SHUTOFF their lightsabers, and use BOTH hands so that they can better manipulate the Force. Obviously this leaves them at a great disadvantage to lightsaber attacks, but that’s the drawback to trying to open up a can of Force Whoopass.

B. Whenever the Force is used while a lightsaber is on, the Force manipulator is holding his lightsaber with only ONE hand. The freed up hand is used for Force conjuring, such as when Dooku chokes Obi-Wan and tosses him across the observation deck in Ep. 3.

C. A duelist holding his/her saber with one hand also has access to performing grappling moves with his/her free hand. This is extensively seen in Ep. 3, especially when Anakin grabs Dooku’s wrists and sets them up for the big decapitation.

D. A duelist having both hands on the lightsaber is able to evoke special protections against Force attacks, such as Obi-Wan’s and Mace’s absorbing/deflection of Dooku’s/Sidious’ attacks. They are not, however, able to use the Force in an offensive manner.


Considering points A.-D., the one handed styles that are available could be made to be actually valuable. Being completely unarmed also has its advantages/disadvantages, and all such points neatly fall in line with what we’ve seen in the films.


And I have one more question: how are Attack Fakes "fakes?" From what I've been able to determine, the saber's movement is not misleading. It's going precisely where the player wants it to go, and it's a very powerful means at directly engaging the enemy. I can usually drop a bot using just Attack Fakes within 3-5 swings.


That’s it for now. Time for bed. Good night!

Yours,
Kyle
Feb. 28, 2006

: )

.

Kyle Kelasheski is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 02:47 AM   #45
Tapela
Rookie
 
Tapela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
I'm surprised you've not asked Razorace to make the hilts appear on the waists of the player models when deactivated :X. Actually now that I think about it I wonder if they appear on the model when you go to fists like the guns do.
Tapela is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 04:15 AM   #46
Lathain Valtiel
Ex-Angel
 
Lathain Valtiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 929
LFN Staff Member 
They do.

They're just strapped to the front of the legs unless you use staff, which is strapped to the back.


Kurgan's Meatgrinder (JA Server: 72.5.248.212:29070)

Player tested, Valtiel approved.

Valtiel approved downloads for Meatgrinder: http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/downloads.shtml
Lathain Valtiel is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 04:31 AM   #47
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Oh, they do. It's just hard to see them from the thirdperson view.

Replies to kyle's lastest list:

2. Mmmm, I might shrink the saber trail in the future. I currently like it but it might need to be tweaked if it's an issue for more users.

3. That's an interesting idea. I'll put that on my to-do list. As for the yellow glow, only the saber's owner sees the yellow glow. It's so that you can locate your saber quickly.

4. Well, the reason why it takes so long because I needed to make the vulnerability last long enough for people to be able to take advantage of it. The saber trail->fatigue is interesting but I'm not sure that I'd want that change to be gradual. I'd probably make it just be based on their fatigue status.

5. I rewrote the knockdown system to allow for forward knockdowns like in SP. The way the ported code works, it appears to require you to "move it or lose it" in terms of quick getups. If you don't, it makes you get up the slow way.

6. Good idea, but it's purely cosmetic. I might do that later.

7. Saber lock mechanics are the same as in basejka. Just check the cvar docs for details.

8. hmmm, for a particular stance or just the animations in general? If it's just the animations in general use the g_saberanimspeed cvar and let me know which setting you like.

9. It looks like you're referring to the slow bounces. That's intentional. Your player gets temp stunned instead of suffering a mishap at high DP/FP levels. I also noticed that there was a bug in the slow bounce code that was causing slow returns/bounces in the wrong situations. That has been fixed.

10. You're also using a third party saber blade mod. I think it normally looks better with the basejka blades.

11. Good idea. However, this will require more extensive enemy scanning than what is currently being used (since your target might not be the dude holding a lightsaber).

12. They don't now?

13. Yeah, I've been wanting to do that. However, it's not something that's easy to do. I'm still thinking about it.

14. See other thread on bot force powers.

15. Agreed. However, I haven't figured out a way to do this without unbalancing things. My guess is that a jedi shouldn't be affected by force push at all unless they're in a saber stun or the attacker is at a much higher force level.

16. Agreed. It should be doing that now. I honestly haven't testing it much so this might have to be messed with.

17. Interesting, but that would take a lot of work. Mind trick and Force sense are going to be tough to retool.

18. Actually Obi-Wan blocked Dooku's lightning with one hand on the saber. Anyway, it's an interesting idea but I don't think restricting the force powers to one handed styles would be fair. Realistically, it doesn't take that long to just take one hand off the saber. Plus, from what we've seen in the movies, we really don't know if using both hands is more powerful or not since the characters normally turn the blade off for another reason. Maybe using the force while holding a lit saber should be less powerful/take more FP so that the player can still saber block?

19. Attack fakes are changing the direction from which you're going to attack. you're winding up for one direction and then suddenly transition into another direction to attack. It's more visible the larger the different in direction is.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 01:36 PM   #48
Kyle Kelasheski
Rookie
 
Kyle Kelasheski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 72
Razorace,

I’ve responded to your reply by quoting your points and then following up with more of my feedback by placing it after an arrow that looks like this: <----


2. Mmmm, I might shrink the saber trail in the future. I currently like it but it might need to be tweaked if it's an issue for more users.<-----Maybe supply us with a cvar that allows us to select a range of saber trail length options, from “Very short, Movie lengths, Long,” and “Very Long?”

4. Well, the reason why it takes so long because I needed to make the vulnerability last long enough for people to be able to take advantage of it. The saber trail->fatigue is interesting but I'm not sure that I'd want that change to be gradual. I'd probably make it just be based on their fatigue status.<----That sounds like an elegant and an easier way to approach this feature!

5. I rewrote the knockdown system to allow for forward knockdowns like in SP. The way the ported code works, it appears to require you to "move it or lose it" in terms of quick getups. If you don't, it makes you get up the slow way.<----So that means that if I’m going to do a “leap up from a knockdown” I have to do so immediately or else I’m stuck with slowly getting up from my knocked down position?

8. hmmm, for a particular stance or just the animations in general? If it's just the animations in general use the g_saberanimspeed cvar and let me know which setting you like…and…
9. It looks like you're referring to the slow bounces. That's intentional. Your player gets temp stunned instead of suffering a mishap at high DP/FP levels. I also noticed that there was a bug in the slow bounce code that was causing slow returns/bounces in the wrong situations. That has been fixed.<----I’ll just wait for the next release then to see how the animations are really intended to work. In general, most of the animations just seem slower to me than the last build. Perhaps this is partially due to the extremely long saber trails we see whenever an Attack Fake is made; the saber trails persist so long that it misleadingly contributes to the sensation that it’s taking a long time for a swing to be executed from its starting to finishing points. If this is the case (and I do believe that it’s playing some role in contributing towards my observations) then perhaps it’s another good reason to reduce the lengths of the saber trails.

10. You're also using a third party saber blade mod. I think it normally looks better with the basejka blades.<----Then I’ll try the mod without the third party saber mod. I hope it works, since in the last build of OJP E, this saber mod looked beautifully accurate to the films’ effects.

12. They don't now?<----I can’t recall ever seeing a bot charge a stunned enemy. It would be helpful for someone else to post their observations regarding this behavior that’s either absent or being missed by me.

15. Agreed. However, I haven't figured out a way to do this without unbalancing things. My guess is that a jedi shouldn't be affected by force push at all unless they're in a saber stun or the attacker is at a much higher force level.<----This is a solid and believable design decision of yours.

18. …Maybe using the force while holding a lit saber should be less powerful/take more FP so that the player can still saber block?<----Again, another sound approach towards using Force powers in consideration of saber usage.

19. Attack fakes are changing the direction from which you're going to attack. you're winding up for one direction and then suddenly transition into another direction to attack. It's more visible the larger the different in direction is.<----I need to get online to get a better feel for this, because in my mind having the fake so strongly pointed out by a super long saber trail that’s pointing to the ACTUAL direction of attack makes it seem like it’d be easier to avoid falling for the fake. As it stands right now, the bots are really lousy to responding to this kind of attack, and they’re pretty lousy at delivering it. I have yet to be consistently “fooled” by their Attack Fakes because I’m reading their super long saber trails. It might also be due to the fact that they really don’t change the direction of their actual saber attacks all that much so it might be because the course of their saber is mostly predictable and I’m automatically responding in the direction towards where the attack is being really delivered. There are a lot of variables involved in assessing this, so it’s tricky to judge exactly what’s going on and why. So, if the goal of the Attack Fake is to mislead the opponent into misdirecting their parry so that the actual attack can hit while their saber is in the wrong position then I’m not really seeing it play out that way against bots.

Your detailed response has really filled in a lot of gray areas for me. Thanks for taking the time to being so thorough in your responses.

Yours,

Kyle
Feb. 28, 2006



.

Kyle Kelasheski is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 03:37 PM   #49
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Kyle, If you P.M. me your email address I'll send you a copy of the saber trail mod I constructed made specifically for OJP Enhanced. It shortens the trail length to a much more movie realistic length and still keps the regular trials decent. The trail "glow" might be a little longer than you like (because I'm sure you just want the core to blur) but if it wasnt longer, the animations won't blend together as well with the changes. Let me know.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-28-2006, 06:17 PM   #50
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Kyle, please use actual quote tags when quoting other people's text. The arrow method you used is hard on the eyes.

2. I don't see a need for a dedicated cvar when a player can changes the trails by using saber mods.

4. Ok, added. We'll see how it works out.

5. Right something like that. I was missing the define for one critical value that is used to determine when a player can get up from a knockdown. This value might need to be tweaked a bit. The rest of the code is pretty straight from SP.

9. I haven't changed the animation speeds so I suspect it's an optical illusion. However, since you asked, I've shorted the saber trail lengths for attack fakes. Let me know if it looks better to you after the next release.

12. Bots should be always trying to get as close as possible to saber swing you if they're trying to use a saber in the first place. I just realized that they don't technically attempt to do a special downward attack to kill you so that might need to be fixed in the future.

19. The attack fakes aren't all that great vs the TABBots since they parry randomly instead of realistically like a human player would.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2006, 02:21 AM   #51
Kyle Kelasheski
Rookie
 
Kyle Kelasheski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 72
Razorace,

RE point 2: I guess my main concern is that different saber mods do different things, and placing them in the wrong directory can cause a good deal of havoc on game performance and confusion. If several variants were supplied via cvar, then odds are all of these potential negative outcomes could be altogether avoided. This leads to happier players, and happier players means more people playing the mod. At least that's what I hope it means.
; )

RE point 4: I am, of course, very eager to see how the "saber trail lengths reflect fatigue level" works out. I hope that it's a feature that the community members appreciate and enjoy!

RE point 9: "Shorter saber trails in the next release?" Yay! This is one new visual feature I can NOT wait to see in action! Thank you for putting work into it and thus allowing us to give it a try!

RE point 12: If you're going to incorporate a downward attack on knocked down opponents by the bots, is it possible to replace the downward stab with a SWEEP of the floor with the lightsaber's tip? As I mentioned earlier, I believe that it's a far more believable action to see put into use.

RE point 19: Is it possible to code the bots so that they can look for and react to the direction of an incoming saber swing? I couldn't imagine how cool it would be to conduct a TFFA or FFA with a slew of saber users smartly reacting to their opponents' attacks! DROOL!

Razorace, I really commend everything that you're putting into this modding endeavor. In my opinion, the overhaul of Raven's crappy saber system is so complete that I feel it'd be more accurate to say that this mod is actually a total conversion . In my opinion, the number of players that this mod is going to totally convert to using the OJP E system is going to be sizeable. And "Yes," the use of the bad pun was intentional. One person's definition of "bad" is another person's definition of "creative."

I vote for the latter.

Good night!

Kyle
March 1, 2006



.

Kyle Kelasheski is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2006, 04:40 AM   #52
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
2. I think it's outside the mod's madate to account for human error on the part of the users. We can try to make things better, but there's a little to what I can do without it just being annoying for me.

12. At the moment I have no plans for adding an additional down attack to the moves list. However, if I decide to do one in the future, I'll try to make one like you suggested.

19. It's possible, but it really comes down to CPU usage and being able to come up with an algorithm that can handle such behavior, which is tough to do for something like you suggested. Unfortunately, predicting saber movement/positioning is tuff. I think I've finally come up with one that works (which is used for the bound box blocking) but I'm not sure how I could use it to make the bots react more intelligently around sabers.

And thank you.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2006, 12:20 AM   #53
Kyle Kelasheski
Rookie
 
Kyle Kelasheski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 72
Razorace,

Here's some more feedback.


Bugs

I. The rocket launcher's rocket isn't visible midair. All I see are the rocket's model's X, Y, and Z axis lines. I'd also consider toning down a bit the amount of shrapnel that's generated by the rocket's detonation.


Suggestions
I. Remove the "shield hit" visual effect. This would immediately make having Force Sense a real bonus, as one could see whether or not an individual has any shield energy left, and it would also simultaneously make the game look more cinematic, as the only time I can think of seeing a shield bubble forming in any of the films is when a droideka is attacked. If the shield effect must be kept, then I advocate making it look very similar to the kind of shield bubble the droideka produces, as it could then be justified that portable shields are based on droideka technologies. Or one could do what ForceMod did, allow an option to have shields visible/invisible.

II. I feel that there should be a greater penalty for those who are either recovering their battle stance and/or lightsaber. Too often I see individauls recover their hilts and they can then immediately use it without suffering any kind of performance penalty. It seems to me that it makes more sense that it would take half a second for a duelist to get a sound grip on his saber hilt once it's been recovered. If the duelist is attacked before this half a second has elapsed, then the duelist is unable to defend himself with his lightsaber because it has yet to be readied. The same goes for getting up from knockdowns.



New Force Powers

I. Force Jump-Recovery from Kicks:
After watching my newly purchased Revenge of the Sith DVD for what must be the fifth time in two weeks (my baby girl is currently very sick with RSV, a severe bronchial infection; about the only way she can nap is if she's on top of my chest, so I pass some of that time watching TV) I noticed a combat move that I thought was pretty sharp and smart. After being kicked by Vader on Mustafar's landing pad, in mid-knockback, Obi-Wan did a "Force-jump" to spin his way out of the nastier consequences of crashing to the landing pad's hard deck, and instead he landed several meters away on his feet, facing his former brother in arms. Perhaps the player/bot would have a fraction of a second to try and recover in this fashion from a kick. In my opinion, this option should only be offered while the kicked individual has a relatively high amount of defensive and Force energy left, and it would be moderately expensive move to make. I wouldn't charge too high a price for it, because even in the best of circumstances, timing is everyting.

II. Contest of Force Push-Lockups:
This is a feature that I'm confident would blow away players' minds. If two opponents utilize their Push powers against each other at/nearly at the same moment, then a "Contest of Force Push-Lockups" occur. We saw this event occur when Obi-Wan and Vader were dueling each other inside a Mustafarian control room. This works very much like saberlocks do. When a Push-Lockup occurs, for several seconds, the opponents have to try and outpace the other opponent's efforts to out-Push their enemy. The individual who hits his/her mouspad's primary attack button the most will win the contest and send their enemy flying a great distance and deliver enough physical damage to stun them for 5-7 seconds. A tied outcome would send both opponents flying in opposite directions, delivering only a small degree of physical harm, but both indivduals would suffer from being stunned for a short period of time. The more points invested in Push, the farther/more damaged/longer stunned the loser of the contest will be. Seeing this contest from a 4th. person view would be a very exciting experience.

III. Force Batter:
This would be a Dark Side power, and it would reproduce what we've seen Vader do in the Original Trilogy. The user of this power would pick up numerous small objects and pieces of debris and hurl them at his/her target, causing them to expend defensive energy/physical health. Dark Forces II, Jedi Knight had a great version of this power, and I've always missed it in Raven's Jedi series. It would be quite the feat if this power returned.

That's it for now. I'll be looking forward to the responses to these ideas.

Yours,

Kyle
March 2, 2006



.


Last edited by Kyle Kelasheski; 03-02-2006 at 12:49 AM.
Kyle Kelasheski is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2006, 02:32 AM   #54
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
The rocket issue has got to be something with a conflicting mod or something since I haven't touched the rocket models.

Quote:
Suggestions
I. Remove the "shield hit" visual effect.
I agree that it's not very realistic. However, I'm not sure that if we should completely remove the effect or not. If we remove the effect, we're also probably going to have to remove the shield points as well.

Quote:
II. I feel that there should be a greater penalty for those who are either recovering their battle stance and/or lightsaber. Too often I see individauls recover their hilts and they can then immediately use it without suffering any kind of performance penalty. It seems to me that it makes more sense that it would take half a second for a duelist to get a sound grip on his saber hilt once it's been recovered. If the duelist is attacked before this half a second has elapsed, then the duelist is unable to defend himself with his lightsaber because it has yet to be readied. The same goes for getting up from knockdowns.
Well, the movies seem to indicate that jedi have no problem using their sabers immediately after recovering them. Changing that would lessen the effect of a last minute retrieve by a player. Plus, I think players without sabers or that have been knockdowned have it hard enough as is. Making it possible to have multiple casading knockdowns/disarms wouldn't seem fair.

Quote:
New Force Powers
I. Force Jump-Recovery from Kicks:
We've already thought of that. I just haven't implimented it yet.

Quote:
II. Contest of Force Push-Lockups:
III. Force Batter:
There's a lot of technical issues involved in adding competely new and wildly different force powers like that. Ideally, I'd have the time and resources to impliment every new idea, but more are simply more practical than others. These are good ideas, they'd just be really hard to do.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2006, 10:04 PM   #55
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
It just occurred to me that there might be a problem with the having the saber not auto activate when it returns to a player's hand. I think that some players might find that to be TOO realistic and annoying. I think I might. What do you guys think?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2006, 11:08 PM   #56
Tapela
Rookie
 
Tapela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
I would not like this at all for it is truely useless. Might as well give us control over finger movements on the model somehow as that is more realistic. Jedi always ignite their sabers as soon as they retrieve them, why does this need to be changed? If you get disarmed against a dual saberist already its hard to recover without losing dp especially depending on enviroment, all it would do is insure these mishaps meant the end of you.
Tapela is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2006, 11:29 PM   #57
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
It just occurred to me that there might be a problem with the having the saber not auto activate when it returns to a player's hand. I think that some players might find that to be TOO realistic and annoying. I think I might. What do you guys think?
Yeah, I think that would be more frustrating than anything.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2006, 12:38 AM   #58
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
If anything, I'd like it the other way around, with the saber igniting before it comes back.
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2006, 08:58 AM   #59
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I haven't been doing that since the jedi always manually reactivate their sabers when they do get their sabers back in the movies.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2006, 07:38 PM   #60
Greiver
Rookie
 
Greiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: the dark place in your mind
Posts: 41
you could make it so that if the jedi attacks while his/her saber is coming back it turns on midair with a little foce drain and it would be all fair


quote
"Though steel thy flesh divide"
Greiver is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2006, 08:59 PM   #61
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I don't think it's realistic. If they could reasonably do that we'd have seen it in the movies. I think the force strain would be too much of a hassle for the payoff.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2006, 11:48 PM   #62
Vruki Salet
Junior Member
 
Vruki Salet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere else entirely
Posts: 443
Just let the people turn it on when it reaches them. It's only a keypress or if they want to swing imediately then it'll go on when they press 'attack' right?
Vruki Salet is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2006, 02:08 AM   #63
Tapela
Rookie
 
Tapela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
It isnt practical, its unneeded and just seems too silly. This isnt a realism mod or anything its a game. A button press away that is unnecessary.
Tapela is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2006, 04:07 AM   #64
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Well, other than Kyle, does anyone actually want this ability?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2006, 01:39 PM   #65
Vruki Salet
Junior Member
 
Vruki Salet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere else entirely
Posts: 443
I like the idea of the saber coming back to the hand unlit and then lighting it if you want. I don't like the idea of a performance penalty in the first moments after you get it back.
Vruki Salet is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2006, 02:05 PM   #66
RBitG
Rookie
 
RBitG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 37
Agreed, it's not as if Jedi are useless enough to be weaker just after they have turned their on, we have all seen Obi-Wan deal killing blows immediately after igniting his saber and then turning it off again with little difficulty.
RBitG is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2006, 04:34 PM   #67
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
I agree: I'd rather there not be a penalty for igniting the saber.
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > A COMPREHENSIVE review of OJP E, Feb. '06

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:05 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.