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Old 03-10-2006, 09:54 AM   #1
DarthMuffin
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"They arrived right before you did"

Perhaps the answer is obvious, but I have been thinking about this for some time. How could the Empire arrive at Bespin before Solo?

Fett was seen tracking down the Falcon after the departure of the Imperial fleet. Could he "guess" that Solo would go to Bespin? Or could the Slave I's computers determine this?

Either way, it would surely take some time for the Imperial fleet to change their course to Bespin and unload Vader and a bunch of stormtroopers. So Fett would have needed to contact them quite early (and be damn sure of where they were going).

Perhaps this is a completely pointless question, and I just did not see the obvious answer, but anyway. What do you think?


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Old 03-10-2006, 11:54 AM   #2
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The reason why they got there so quick was because of the Force. Duh.


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Old 03-10-2006, 04:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Obi-Wan
The reason why they got there so quick was because of the Force. Duh.
I will presume that you are joking, since that doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm actually looking for serious answers if you haven't figured by now.


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Old 03-10-2006, 04:46 PM   #4
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The computers of the Imperials or the Slave 1 tracked the course the Falcon was taking, maybe Fett placed an extremely sophisticated tracking device that read the Falcons computer and their exact destination was transmitted straight to Fett or the Imperials.



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Old 03-10-2006, 05:24 PM   #5
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The hyperdrive was broken, so (hilariously) it would have taken them years to get to the next Star system! The Empire had all the time in the world and could easily chart their projected flight path. They could have stationed troops on all the nearest planets, and then just have Vader sent off in plenty of time ahead of them as they watch their approach (he wouldn't even need to use the Force).

Of course numerous (off-screen) explanations have been concocted to explain away this problem, such as that they had a "backup hyperdrive" (that must have broken down later or being crappy, like a spare tire, since they still needed Lando to fix their hyperdrive as if it was the only one) or bought one on the way from somebody they happned to run into, or that they can still travel FTL just not "as fast" as normal (though onscreen they call it "no lightspeed" oops), or that Bespin is in the same solar system (Anoat system) as Hoth, so it's not that far (not between star systems, which would take a heckuva long time with no FTL drive!). Like the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, this is just an obvious gaffe when the dramatic needs of the story overrode scientific accuracy (sort of like Dooku's solar sail in AOTC), and fans and EU writers have "had to" come up with explanations after the fact which then may become official to rationalize it all and not look like idiots.

Of course if we assume Fett has a working FTL drive, then he was purposely following them at a distance, because he could have easily overtaken them (though who's to say he could overpower them in a fight... sure the Slave I is amazing in combat, via AOTC, but it's an old rust bucket by now, right?).


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Old 03-11-2006, 08:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan

Of course numerous (off-screen) explanations have been concocted to explain away this problem, such as that they had a "backup hyperdrive" (that must have broken down later or being crappy, like a spare tire, since they still needed Lando to fix their hyperdrive as if it was the only one) or bought one on the way from somebody they happned to run into, or that they can still travel FTL just not "as fast" as normal (though onscreen they call it "no lightspeed" oops), or that Bespin is in the same solar system (Anoat system) as Hoth, so it's not that far (not between star systems, which would take a heckuva long time with no FTL drive!). Like the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, this is just an obvious gaffe when the dramatic needs of the story overrode scientific accuracy (sort of like Dooku's solar sail in AOTC), and fans and EU writers have "had to" come up with explanations after the fact which then may become official to rationalize it all and not look like idiots.
I think it is generally accepted that they didn't have a hyperdrive, and that they chose Bespin since it was close to Hoth. I guess it makes sense to say that Fett could have tracked the Falcon's course, and perhaps sent a message to the Empire at the last minute (hence the "right before you did").

But yeah, Star Wars movies are far from being scientifically accurate. Would be boring with no sounds in space though Since that part of the movie is so important, I just did not expect a "logical error" here.


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Old 03-11-2006, 03:01 PM   #7
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I personally like the idea of it being in the same solar system, but there you go, some people like the other explanations better, I guess because it makes the Falcon seem cooler or the galaxy seem that much bigger (of course without functioning FTL drive it's "pretty far" from one end of a solar system to the other).


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Old 03-12-2006, 01:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
(sort of like Dooku's solar sail in AOTC)
There's nothing scientifically inaccurate about the solar sail at all, infact organizations are making prototypes as we speak. It was on the Science of Star Wars back when they were showing that. Basically it captures radiation displaced by the sun and the sails run off it, how I cannot remember specifically.


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Old 03-12-2006, 04:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Sith
There's nothing scientifically inaccurate about the solar sail at all, infact organizations are making prototypes as we speak. It was on the Science of Star Wars back when they were showing that. Basically it captures radiation displaced by the sun and the sails run off it, how I cannot remember specifically.
Well, it's not the concept itself that's scientifically inaccurate, it's the use of such a device to travel interstellar distances. On the DVD audio commentary they even admit the sail isn't big enough to get the kind of thrust you'd need to make the trip.


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Old 03-12-2006, 05:49 AM   #10
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Perhaps they were able to fix it temporarly, but they knew they would need some external help to have it work all the time and reliably.

I believe that is just as good, or even much better explaination as most other ones.




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Old 03-12-2006, 11:08 AM   #11
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One thing the Falcon didn't have installed were rear view mirrors.

But I think Fett was able to calculate their trajectory - probably checked to see which inhabited systems where it would be likely they would end up. From what Han says, they were in a pretty desolate area of space, there were only a few places for them to go without a hyperdrive. It's also interesting that the Imperials didn't pick up that the Falcon's hyperdrive wasn't operational, you would think Vader or someone would've figured out that they hadn't attempted to jump to light speed during the pursuit. Fett may have figured this out, but the Imperial's seem to be totally oblivious to it.


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Old 03-12-2006, 04:05 PM   #12
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Didn't Solo specify a system when he said where Bespin is? I don't recall for 100% sure, but I think he did. And if he did, it would blow a hole in the "same system" bit. I'm too lazy to fire up the DVD right now, but I may later today. Just curious.



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Old 03-12-2006, 04:16 PM   #13
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Okay this is from the script, but if memory serves, this follows the scene in the film exactly:

(taken from here, somebody who owns a copy of the Annotated Screenplays can follow along, I don't):

Quote:
HAN: Then we've got to find a safe port somewhere around here. Got any ideas?
LEIA: No. Where are we?
HAN: The Anoat system.
LEIA: Anoat system. There's not much there.
HAN: No. Well, wait. This is interesting. Lando.
He points to a computer mapscreen on the control panel. Leia slips out of her chair and moves next to the handsome pilot. Small light points representing several systems flash by on the computer screen.
LEIA: Lando system?
HAN: Lando's not a system, he's a man. Lando Calrissian. He's a card player, gambler, scoundrel. You'd like him.
LEIA: Thanks.
HAN: Bespin. It's pretty far, but I think we can make it.
LEIA: (reading from the computer) A mining colony?
HAN: Yeah, a Tibanna gas mine. Lando conned somebody out of it. We go back a long way, Lando and me.
LEIA: Can you trust him?
HAN: No. But he has no love for the Empire, I can tell you that.
Chewie barks over the intercom. Han quickly changes his readouts and stretches to look out the Cockpit window.
HAN: (into intercom) Here we go, Chewie. Stand by. Detach!
So nothing about Bespin being in another star system. So a contradiction is only created if the EU specifies that the 'Hoth asteroid field' and Bespin aren't both in the "Anoat system." And in that case we can just ignore the EU screwup.

Then again, Vader and Piett refer to "the Hoth system" though so who knows... unless that's just an unofficial name... Or else the asteroid field is close enough to the Anoat system that they can reach it via non FTL drive. One person on the 'net claims that Star Wars has a different nomenclature than our's, that they refer to "planetary systems" rather than solar systems, while that is an interesting theory, I don't know if there's any reliable support for it.

The scene of them not noticing Fett is a reversal of them being right on top of the Empire and not being seen. First the bad guys are blind then the heroes are. Heh...


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Old 03-12-2006, 04:24 PM   #14
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Oh, never mind then.



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Old 03-12-2006, 04:26 PM   #15
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You could always check the audio commentary for that scene, just in case anything interesting was said...


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Old 03-12-2006, 08:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
You could always check the audio commentary for that scene, just in case anything interesting was said...
That's a pretty good idea - I'll check it out when I have the time.


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Old 03-12-2006, 11:29 PM   #17
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Though there's an 85% chance it's just Ben Burt pimping his mad sound fx skillz again.


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Old 03-17-2006, 05:49 PM   #18
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Just wanted chime in with something - the idea that planets are mentioned as systems in Star Wars doesn't really fly, since Veers says: "...comscan has detected an energy field protecting an area on the 6th planet of the Hoth system..."

figuring out the rest I'll leave up to you
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Old 03-17-2006, 09:51 PM   #19
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Good point. So it's really unanswered. I personally like the "they're in the same solar system" explanation, but I guess there's really no perfect one that isn't a stretch, without assuming some of the dialouge is spoken by idiots (but then nobody's perfect).


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Old 03-30-2006, 01:31 PM   #20
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How about this as a quite far out but slightly possible explanation -

after the imps persuit of the falcon failed they, without knowing where the falcon went, decided to go to bespin anyway because they had unfinished buisiness with lando and as been as bespin was in the same system vader decided to pay him a visit the so called 'deal' that vader and lando discuss later in the episode was made as a was of settling the 'unfinished business' and its a great coincidence and thats why 'they arrived right before you did'


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Old 03-30-2006, 09:29 PM   #21
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Well... it makes some sense... but later he mentions giving Han over to the bounty hunter not being part of the deal, and Obi-Wan does say that Luke is why his friends are made to suffer...



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Old 03-31-2006, 08:09 PM   #22
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That's unlikely. Lando does mention that the colony is too small to have been noticed by the Empire, and (although he could be lying), that seems reasonable. There is no visible Imperial presence their when the Falcon arrives. Granted, it's possible that the Empire could have concealed its presence if they knew the Falcon was coming, but the only way they should have known is if Fett told them anyway (furthermore, Han should know if there is an Imp presence there). It seems likely that the Empire could only have been in the system if tipped off by Fett.
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Old 03-31-2006, 08:50 PM   #23
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It could be the "deal" was that Lando would be allowed to maintain his mining colony outside Imperial control (that is, be an independant business and perhaps even avoid taxes) as long as he agreed to turn in any Rebel sympathizers he found.


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Old 05-03-2006, 06:57 PM   #24
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can someone find a 3D galatic map that is to scale? If so then the problm can be easily solved?

Personally I like the "hyperdrive is somewhat functional, but not at its full power" explanation.

So yeah the Falcon is not at "1.5 past lightspeed" but just lightspeed, or maybe even a bit slower?
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:46 PM   #25
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I don't like that at all; when they try to fire it up, they have mechanical problems. In fact, the first attempt to reach lightspeed, C-3P0 says something to that effect. I don't think there is a "to scale" map of a SW Galaxy, BTW.



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Old 05-04-2006, 03:31 PM   #26
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Either Way, the "not to scale" map shows that Hoth and Bespin are like a system or two away at least.

Since we KNOW there are different grades of LS travel it won't be surprised if the Imps are going full speed burning up the nitro while Falcon is keeping at minimum speed cause of that cranky drive.

That, or chewie dropped by the drive-thru for some spiced up bantha burger happy meal while Leia go take a leak, cause we know there is no washroom in the Falcon.
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Old 05-04-2006, 04:59 PM   #27
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There was actually a number of months inbetween them getting to Bespin. What? Did you think that Luke was there on Dagobah for a week?



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Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 PM   #28
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Yeah, that's it... I think he got it... that might explain why Boba wasn't right on the Falcon's tail at Bespin, like he was after the asteroid field incident.



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Old 05-20-2006, 04:21 PM   #29
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A quote straight from the New Essential Chronology:

"Believing that Millennium Falcon had escaped Imperial capture, Han Solo limped across the Ison Corridor with a patch-together backup hyperdrive to reach the gas world." p. 118
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:22 PM   #30
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That makes no sense. If that were the case:

1) Why didn't Solo put that into action the first time the hyperdrive failed?

2) Why did he panic when the hyperdrive failed for the... third time, was it? ("It's not my fault..." (Yeah, I know Lando says it too...))

3) Why wasn't Boba Fett right on the Falcon's tail, then? Or why didn't he just jump ahead and reach Bespin far before "right before they got here"?



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Old 05-21-2006, 04:34 PM   #31
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3) I think Boba can be in Bespin chilling out, or hes has other important stuff to work on, this can be anything from smacking some pimp's rearend, to picking up another bounty to giving his lady some lovin'.
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:51 PM   #32
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Still, couldn't he have signaled the Empire?



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Old 05-22-2006, 03:25 PM   #33
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Think he did, thats how them Imps caught up with MF.
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Old 05-22-2006, 06:10 PM   #34
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But then there's still the issue of Luke's training. FoshJedi's right, how can anyone be trained even partway in a matter of days? In the Prequels, it takes years and years to get a Jedi to kinda understand the Force. Yet, Luke is doing acrobatics like a Jedi after the training. So, shouldn't it have taken longer?



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Old 05-22-2006, 06:55 PM   #35
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Of all the explanations, I agree with Fosh's the most as well.

I might have to go back and watch the movie again to check it out.
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Old 05-22-2006, 07:07 PM   #36
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Here's my view.

The MF's hyperdrive was broken. Period. FoshJedi makes a great point that it took the MF months to get to Besbin. In that time, Fett could jump ahead to Cloud City, contact Vader, Imps arrive with Vader. Vader makes his plans to capture the MF crew, toture them, and draw Luke to Besbin. Also, in that time Luke is training. He would need months to gain the training needed to take on Vader.

Do you really think Luke learned how to fight with a lightsaber in a week? No freakin' way! Before training with Yoda, Luke uses his lightsaber like it's a tool. He had no experience with it as a weapon. IMO he got lucky with the wampa. Yoda trained him for months so he could fight Vader and stand a chance.

I'm sorry but, you can't learn to use a lightsaber in a week. (Or Force Jump when he jumped out of the carbon freezing chamber. Which was very cool by the way. )


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Old 05-23-2006, 04:52 PM   #37
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While I find the point that it took the MF over a month or more to reach Bespin plausable, I'm not going to try and dispute it cause it makes sense, I am going address the notion Luke has no experience with the Lightsaber.

3 years went by from when he first got it to Episode V.
3 years. That's a long time.
You're bound to pick up a few tricks, even without guidance by an experienced user.

Good enough to face Vader?
Probably not.

But then again, Luke's not just another Force sensitive in that universe.

Then again, neither is Vader.




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Old 05-24-2006, 04:36 PM   #38
boinga1
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I don't see how the Falcon could have reached Bespin from a separate solar system in a matter of months without faster-than-light travel. Presumambly, Hoth is in the Outer Rim, several light-years at least from the nearest star system (as Earth is a few light-years from our nearest star). Unless the Falcon spent several years in space (which seems unlikely, given that there must be some life-support and food limitations), the concept seems unsound. If Hoth were in the Core, on the other hand, it's feasible that stars would be much closer together.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:15 PM   #39
Steve-O Kreesh
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Well, maybe my earlier comments were a bit hasty. I didn't remember that Luke did receive some training from Ben Kenobi on the MF in ep. IV. But Luke was still a beginner when he started his training with Yoda. True, he probably could figure out soon things on his own, but he wouldn't have standed a chance against Vader at that time.

While I'm not the smartest when it comes to distances between planetary systems. But, Hoth and Besbin must be close enough to each other in order for the Falcon to travel that distance in a few months. Right? <


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Old 05-24-2006, 07:40 PM   #40
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Well, remember Vader is not trying to really hurt/kill Luke, he is trying to get Luke to join him. So I think Vader is pulling punches.

I don't think "months" have passed before they reach Bespin, but that may be quite a few days off. With the patch up Hyperdrive they are travelling at barely lightspeed, with possable extra stops and jumps here and there, nothing close to the "1.5 past light speed" MF should be doing.

Imps, on the other hand is going full speed, and quite possably have called for Imps around Bespin to do preps even before Vader's personal arrival.

As for the training between ObiWain and Luke, I think its mostly basic training on Ideas of the force, somewhat like what younglins would be having. QUite possably ht did pick up more from the Ghost of ObiWan though.
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