lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The Mandalorians won
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 03-17-2006, 08:26 PM   #1
ElizLestrad
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 47
The Mandalorians won

I just had a startling revelation. See if you can follow my logic:

1) The Mandalorians attempted to conquer the Republic, but ultimatly failed
2) The Fetts are of Mandalorian descent as one (at least) of their blood served as Mandalorian Super Commandos hence the armor.
3) The Clone Army was cloned from Jango Fett's DNA making them Mandalorians
4) Palipatine lead the clone army to victory turning the republic into the Galactic Empire (Clone troopers phazing into Imperial Storm Troopers)

Therefor, the Stormtroopers being clones based off of Fett they are Mandalorians so in a sense the Mandalorians did finally conquer the known Universe (Albiet for a short time)

WOOT!

And like during the Mandalorian Wars, they got beat by a crippled Republic and a few Jedi. LoL

Last edited by ElizLestrad; 03-17-2006 at 09:17 PM.
ElizLestrad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-17-2006, 09:48 PM   #2
The Seeker
Senior Member
 
The Seeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,324
Cool observation. Though it hasn't been officially confirmed that once Palpatine had his empire, he continued using clones. After all, without a Senate to have to go through, there's really no reason why he would continue to pay the extravagant fees to have clones made. Be much easier and cheaper to simply draft soldiers. I mean, look at the officers. If all the grunts are clones, then why not the officers as well. For the cloners on Kamino it would be a simple matter of genetic tampering to get some more independant minded officers to tell the grunts what to do (they did this to some degree with the standard clones for the commanders.)

And if they are indeed clones, I think it's safe to say that by the time of the OT, they aren't Jango's clones anymore. Just listen to their voices. All the clones sound just like Jango in the PT, where the Stormies all have different voices "Hey, you there!"

And considering George Lucas had Temura Morrison dub over all of Boba Fett's lines in the OT, I think that if the stormies were all clones of Jango, GL would have done the same for them.

Even so, Mandalorian blood did indeed take over the Republic, which is pretty cool indeed.


And Shepherds we shall be
For thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand
Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti.

OMG Jedi Knight 4!!!
The Seeker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-18-2006, 02:16 AM   #3
Samnmax221
I never Kipled
 
Samnmax221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: My hovercraft is full of eels
Posts: 5,784
Current Game: Sex with women
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight_114

And considering George Lucas had Temura Morrison dub over all of Boba Fett's lines in the OT, I think that if the stormies were all clones of Jango, GL would have done the same for them.
I never caught that, gotta go watch ESB
Samnmax221 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-18-2006, 05:31 AM   #4
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight_114
Though it hasn't been officially confirmed that once Palpatine had his empire, he continued using clones.
Um it has been officially confirmed by multiple sources that they continued using clones its just once the empire was in place they started using different clone hosts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starwars databank
Following the rise of the Empire, the military cloning program expanded to include new clone hosts. By the time of the Empire consolidated its power by dissolving the Senate, the ranks of the Imperial stormtroopers would include cloned infantry from multiple sources as well as birth-born conscripts and recruits from various worlds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizLestrad
Therefor, the Stormtroopers being clones based off of Fett they are Mandalorians so in a sense the Mandalorians did finally conquer the known Universe
The clones of Jango arnt mandos, Mandalorians arnt a race its a teaching like Jedi or Sith

The clones of Jango fett are just human clones now if they were taught the way of mandalore and they followed his teachings then they would be mandalorians

Some of the ARC troopers and Commados were given mandalorian training and they even started using the mando language now these guys could probably be called mandalorians but your normal Clonetrooper is just a human


Darth_Terros is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-18-2006, 03:43 PM   #5
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,314
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight_114
Cool observation. Though it hasn't been officially confirmed that once Palpatine had his empire, he continued using clones. After all, without a Senate to have to go through, there's really no reason why he would continue to pay the extravagant fees to have clones made. Be much easier and cheaper to simply draft soldiers. I mean, look at the officers. If all the grunts are clones, then why not the officers as well. For the cloners on Kamino it would be a simple matter of genetic tampering to get some more independant minded officers to tell the grunts what to do (they did this to some degree with the standard clones for the commanders.)

And if they are indeed clones, I think it's safe to say that by the time of the OT, they aren't Jango's clones anymore. Just listen to their voices. All the clones sound just like Jango in the PT, where the Stormies all have different voices "Hey, you there!"

And considering George Lucas had Temura Morrison dub over all of Boba Fett's lines in the OT, I think that if the stormies were all clones of Jango, GL would have done the same for them.

Even so, Mandalorian blood did indeed take over the Republic, which is pretty cool indeed.
To add to what Terros said, yes Lucas has himself confirmed that the Empire continued to use mostly clones in the Stormtrooper ranks even into the classic trilogy. He claimed in an interview last year that the Empire eventually started conscripting men to add to the clone ranks near the end of course, and multiple clone hosts, but they're mostly clones. On the DVD commentary for ANH (2004) he labels the "head banging stormtrooper" as a Jango clone during that scene (compare to the head banging commentary for the scene in AOTC DVD). A few fans insist that what Lucas says "behind the scenes" counts for nothing unless backed up by other official sources. And other fans insist that whatever is in the Databank must be canon, but anyway, you have repeated statements that it's true, despite what some EU source pre-2002 might imply.


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-19-2006, 08:30 AM   #6
Kensai
Rookie
 
Kensai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Here There And Eveywhere, I'm Omnipotent...
Posts: 185
It may seem obvious, but this draws a heavy resemblance with the Waffen SS throughout Nazi Germany, I mean the consciption of "lesser" soldiers during the last few years. As the situation became more desperate.

Who knows, maybe Palpatine was just as oblivious to his failings as Hitler was, really though, the rebel alliance wasn't close to bearing the same strength that the allies did have at the time of 1944.

Enough of that, what Terros and Kurgan said is basically, me be sceptical of anything said by most SW sources except the movie or GL, I'd say that it's classed as canon that the clones were still being used through the OT, even it was from different host's.


Quote:
If I cannot bond myself to my context, I cannot bind myself to my presence.
Kensai is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-19-2006, 09:44 AM   #7
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizLestrad
I just had a startling revelation. See if you can follow my logic:

2) The Fetts are of Mandalorian descent as one (at least) of their blood served as Mandalorian Super Commandos hence the armor.

3) The Clone Army was cloned from Jango Fett's DNA making them Mandalorians


WOOT!
sorry. No woot !

your "logic" is based on assumptions rather than established EU facts.

Point 2 is *incorrect* Jango's family were farmers, who were murdered by a faction of Mandalorian Mercenaries. Orphan Jango was later saved by (a different faction) of Mandalorian Shocktroopers and worked for them to pay what was essentially a "life debt" He eventually hooked up with Jaster Mereel and thus ended up with the snazzy blue armour after he died.

It must also be clarified that Mandalorians were originally an ancient race of grey skinned beings. They became extinct and the term "Mandalorian" was used to describe merecnaries who lived by the warlike principles of the ancient Mandalorians. It was also the name of their language, and the planet that was settled by Mandalore The First.

Mandalore The First himself appears in Old Republic Era comics, and his successor, is a playable character in KOTOR2.

With Jango having absolutely NO direct lineage from the original Mandalore(they are a different SPECIES to begin with), saying he and the clones are all Mandalorians is not correct.

bah, I hate it when Hitler and the Nazis make it into internet discussions....between Revisionists, Hollywood and the History Channel we never stop hearing about these morons. Just because Spielberg & Co. hasnt made a score of movies featuring the Khmer Rouge, or about the Balkan Strife over the ages, or the ongoing African Troubles doesnt mean the lives lost(and continuing to this day) aren't as tragic [/end rant]

* * *

But back the topic !

Kensai, recruiting "lesser" soldiers isnt just attributable to the Waffen SS. It is one of the tragedies of war in any age. When the number of young and able men dwindle, children and old men get drawn into conflict. This has happened from day dot to the modern day(especially in Civil War torn African nations in the modern era)

Here's some *facts*
Mandalorian Info from CUSWE

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-19-2006, 11:21 AM   #8
Kensai
Rookie
 
Kensai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Here There And Eveywhere, I'm Omnipotent...
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

But back the topic !

Kensai, recruiting "lesser" soldiers isnt just attributable to the Waffen SS. It is one of the tragedies of war in any age. When the number of young and able men dwindle, children and old men get drawn into conflict. This has happened from day dot to the modern day(especially in Civil War torn African nations in the modern era)
I know this, I was just drawing out the correlation with WWII that the movie series does have.


Quote:
If I cannot bond myself to my context, I cannot bind myself to my presence.
Kensai is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-19-2006, 11:36 PM   #9
ElizLestrad
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 47
Astrotoy7:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I've reasearched this matter very well. Jango is a mandalorian as his bloodline can be traced back to the venerable Cassus Fett, veteran of the Mandalorian Wars. And I never said that he was related to Mandalore.

Further research shows that: Jango Fett Led the Mandalorians from Jaster's death on Korda Six to their destruction by the Jedi on Galidraan (By ironic coincidence, the Jedi unit that defeated Jango was lead by Count Dooku, the SAME man that Jango later worked with). This was after Jango wrestled control from the rival Mandalorian Montross and killed him on the moon of Bogden. After the defeat of his unit, Jango traveled to Kamino where the production of the clone army began.

And as for the "origional mandalorians" being Grey-skinned humanoids (Back when the clans were united under Mandalore the Ultimate), its clear that these facts help the idea that during the wars under Exar Kun (and even before and after the war) that the Mandalorian clans evolved to their current Human appearance.
ElizLestrad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-20-2006, 01:50 AM   #10
Darth_Terros
Veteran
 
Darth_Terros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Korriban
Posts: 821
Helpful! 


Also your not quite understanding the Mandalorians arnt a race.

they used to be when they were still tuang but they got wiped out and other species started learning their ways and using the title mandalorian.


Darth_Terros is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-20-2006, 06:33 AM   #11
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizLestrad
Astrotoy7:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I've reasearched this matter very well. Jango is a mandalorian as his bloodline can be traced back to the venerable Cassus Fett, veteran of the Mandalorian Wars. And I never said that he was related to Mandalore.

And as for the "origional mandalorians" being Grey-skinned humanoids (Back when the clans were united under Mandalore the Ultimate), its clear that these facts help the idea that during the wars under Exar Kun (and even before and after the war) that the Mandalorian clans evolved to their current Human appearance.
Sorry. The original Mandalorians, as Terros has also mentioned, are extinct. And saying that they "evolved into humans" is absolutely unsubstantiated.

What source are you using for your "research". Hopefully you are not using Wiki for your research. It is *not* a valid or reliable resource, at all.

Terros and I are quoting sourced material from either sw.com(the Official Site), the CUSWE(which is *referenced*) and Terros has been nice enough to post an image from one of the relevant Dark Horse comics.

There is absolutely *NO* EU source that directly links Cassus Fett(from KOTOR Era!) to Jango(4000 years later). It is once again, an assumption you are making.

They simply share the same name, which happens alot not only in EU, but in real life too (even in the movies, you have Alderaanian Capt Antilles and Corellian Wedge Antilles)

As indicated above, the only thing that has been stated in any source is that Jango comes from a farming family on Concord Dawn, and was an orphan.

This LINK contains the CUSWE Entry for Jango which includes the references for that information, most of it being from the newer Dark Horse comics featuring Jango.

also, the Official Site basically summarises these details.

The link between Cassus and Jango is *not* mentioned in any official source. In addition, Cassus is not of the original Mandalorian species, and is hence not a "true" Mandalorian. You also describe Cassus as "venerable", he was an outlaw. There was nothing venerable about him at all

Basically, the only way you are ever hoing to be able to say that the "Mandalorians/Clonetroopers control the republic" is by using obi-wan kenobi's lame "from a certain point of view" pretext, which he used to lie to Luke

Still, the clonies/stormies had little real power. As the films show, they were *programmed* to follow orders obediently. This included killing jedi, who were comrades and advoctaes for them throughout the clone wars.

It is the Sith who had the foresight and political wiles to take control of the galaxy, namely Palpatine/Sidious. Once Sidious died, the Empire became a very pale shadow of its former self.

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat

Last edited by Astrotoy7; 03-20-2006 at 06:43 AM.
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-20-2006, 11:45 PM   #12
ElizLestrad
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Hopefully you are not using Wiki for your research.
Heaven forbid.

I was using the books (Complete Timeline being one of them) that I have. Which includes all 6 movies and all the novels, etc (Kotors 1 & 2 being included as one of the cited sources)

And I never said the Mandalorians/Clonetroopers CONTROL the republic. I said they TOOK IT OVER. Theres a difference. If I said Palipatine took it over, that would imply that he was actually on the front lines fighting with the soldiers (Which is completely perposterous). Its obvious that Palipatine controls everything.

As for your Capt. Antilles being Alderanian and Wedge being Corrilian, that doesnt mean that they couldnt be related. Technically if I were to say that I had German parents and that they moved to America before I was born, I'd be American wouldnt I (After all thats where my citizenship would be)? (This statement being made up for the sake of argument)
ElizLestrad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-21-2006, 06:33 AM   #13
Astrotoy7
A Face from The Past
 
Astrotoy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 10,284
Notable contributor Helpful! Folder extraordinaire LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizLestrad
Heaven forbid.

I was using the books (Complete Timeline being one of them) that I have. Which includes all 6 movies and all the novels, etc (Kotors 1 & 2 being included as one of the cited sources)

And I never said the Mandalorians/Clonetroopers CONTROL the republic. I said they TOOK IT OVER. Theres a difference. If I said Palipatine took it over, that would imply that he was actually on the front lines fighting with the soldiers (Which is completely perposterous). Its obvious that Palipatine controls everything.

As for your Capt. Antilles being Alderanian and Wedge being Corrilian, that doesnt mean that they couldnt be related. Technically if I were to say that I had German parents and that they moved to America before I was born, I'd be American wouldnt I (After all thats where my citizenship would be)? (This statement being made up for the sake of argument)
lolz...Cassus is related to Jango and Wedge to Capt Antilles. And GW Bush is my mothers brothers uncle

Sure, anything is *possible* but when discussing EU, if stating something as a fact you really need to back it up with a source. As it stands there is NO official source linking Cassus and Jango. Even if they were, the fact that they are a different species from teh original Mandalorians makes it a mute point. They ar enot "true" Mandalorians.

Still, the new LOTF Novel, Bloodlines, maytell us something interstesting about the Fetts, keep your peepers peeled

mtfbwya


Asinus asinum fricat
Astrotoy7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-22-2006, 01:05 PM   #14
Fealiks
NAMBLA member
 
Fealiks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Britain
Posts: 2,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Seeker
Though it hasn't been officially confirmed that once Palpatine had his empire, he continued using clones.
No he didnt, the 501st legion got too old so he started to recruit.


This is a nice find and its vaguely correct; since there was 4,000 years difference in there I dont think it really made much difference but thats just what I think.
Fealiks is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Star Wars > Expanded Universe > The Mandalorians won

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:52 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.