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Old 03-22-2006, 04:39 AM   #1
Daniel333
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Angry problem with population

l will tell you my greatest anoyment (and only) reinforcement cap. It is so annoying. Because l just rememer l have an atat waiting for me to call it down but when I found out that it was 10/10 l just die. I think lucasarts should of changed the pop to 20 at least. That's what l find anoying but space is ok for now......


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Old 03-22-2006, 05:25 AM   #2
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The population cap means that you need to plan what units to use. Sometimes you can only destroy a certain structure before having to bring in another batch to attack again. Some maps are a challenge but that is all part of the fun - you dont want it to be too easy.

I do think that space battles could do with a rise though, so we can have bigger space battles like in the movies.

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Old 03-22-2006, 01:29 PM   #3
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In ground conflicts you can always "suicide" a unit to open up a reinforcement slot. When I drop a lot of infantry for instance, but run into more artillery than I anticipated, I'll run one or two infantry companies all alone into enemy artillery range. Doing this while having control of at least one reinforcement point means I can immediately drop what I need to deal with the situation.

(This may be a cold-hearted thing to do, but hey - infantry's cheap.)
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:59 PM   #4
PoiuyWired
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Its annoying that you can't plan the "initial units" for an attack though.

Like: when you have 20 Ywings, 12 N-B, 40 gunship, 20 marauders.

And the initial units o a space battle seems random, and you can't swap it even.

Same goes for ground battle actually, but its only 1 deployed unit only so it hurts less.
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:43 PM   #5
ScorLibran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
And the initial units o a space battle seems random, and you can't swap it even.

Same goes for ground battle actually, but its only 1 deployed unit only so it hurts less.
For ground assaults it's easy - never drag your whole assault force onto a ground slot, as that does result in an unexpected unit going down first. Put your ground assault force in orbit around the target planet, zoom in to the planet, then drag to a ground slot the first unit you want to be deployed.

As for space engagements, I've tested this extensively and have determined a pattern the game always uses...

First, it'll "represent" each unit type by making sure at least one of each type is deployed. This includes heroes, so if you have three space heroes in your assault force, all of them will always be in the initial deployment.

After making sure each unit type is represented, the game looks at the ratio of units in your force and uses this to fill population slots by the same ratio - up to as close to the population cap as it can get.

Let's say your total force is 20 Tartan corvettes and 20 Victory frigates. Since the ratio of unit numbers is 1:1, the game will fill half of the population slots with Tartans and the other half with Victories. Now, here's the part that confuses people: Note that this will mean 5 Tartans (=10) and 3 Victorys (=9).

You would think, "Hey, since I've got an equal number of each, why not put four of each type in my starting lineup...that equals 20 population. But the game looks at the unit count ratio in your assault force and determines the population slot ratio of the initial deployment from this.

If you want, every time, to deploy 4 Tartans and 4 Victorys, then do the math: 4 Tartans = 8 slots and 4 Victorys = 12 slots. That's a 2:3 slot ratio. So load your assault force with a 2:3 unit count ratio of Tartans to Victorys. When your total group is, for instance, 16 Tartans and 24 Victorys, then you'll get 4 and 4 on every initial deployment - just like clockwork.




But I really do think it should be easier than this. Hopefully a future version of this game will either include a "deployment planning" window prior to all space battles - in which you can select your own initial deployment group. OR it can do it like ground assaults - have a seperate staging slot for space assaults in which you drop your whole group of ships. Then you zoom in, grab one ship, and drag it to one of the normal "fleet" windows above the planet. The game goes into space combat mode, at which time you can reinforce exactly the ships you want, up to the pop cap.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:06 PM   #6
wedge2211
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I had guessed at the algorithm the computer uses to pick the initial units, but hadn't observed it quite well enough to pin it down the way you have (apart from the "representation" rule)--good job. That's helpful.

It would be kind of neat for the expansion/sequel to include a number of options that could be set on a fleet, such as the initial forces and the exact formation and range from the enemy station they hyper in at. For instance, setting your ships up in a protective ring of corvettes with missile cruisers and special units in the middle, at a large distance from the target station--or setting them to drop out of hyperspace in a fighting wedge with capital ships up front, directly in firing range.

On the ground, where the population system is a bit more contentious, I think it works really well. The system forces you to think of how to attack a number of points on the map while not throwing away ALL your units. Actually, I particularly enjoy playing as the Empire and dropping nothing but Veers (who doesn't take up a unit slot) and other AT-ATs, dropping additional soldiers, and then just letting them go with an attack-move command. I'm sure that wouldn't work at all against a human opponent, but it makes for some fun cinematic views against the computer, and allows me to have far more units down that I would otherwise be given.


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Old 03-24-2006, 04:31 AM   #7
conmanguyler
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has anyone tried editing their pop.cap on the xml files, i might do it but i need to see if anyone else has done it and if their game still runs fine,,
cheers
and DMUK, u r right, the space battles do need the pop.cap rising, i like huge battles, they would be well cool, could you imaging 30 ISD's attacking a space station


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Old 03-24-2006, 10:03 AM   #8
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Yea huge battles would be alot better then just having a few ships and a few fighters attacking, big battles would be more exciting and funner to do.

I had no problems on ground assault for the population limit, it was hard at times but it was still a blast.


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Old 03-24-2006, 10:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conmanguyler
[...] i like huge battles, they would be well cool, could you imaging 30 ISD's attacking a space station
You'll need more than a larger pop cap to do that...you'll also need bigger space maps. 30 ISDs would crowd a current space map so much you wouldn't see any "space". The screen would look like it was paved with ISDs, and none could move or turn.

Oh, and you'd also need a level-17 space station to justify having to bring 30 ISDs to attack it. If you can't kill a lvl-5 space station with 5 ISDs at a time, then you just need more play experience. (Not you in particular, but anyone.) Try it on hard difficulty with nothing but Acclamators...now THAT'S a challenge.

Oh, and I've edited the pop cap in my XML files. I changed them back to defaults for normal play, but I did experiment a bit - and soon learned that the maps weren't currently big enough to support a population much more than 20-25 anyway.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:00 PM   #10
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i wasnt actually gonna put 30 ISD's on 1 map, i was just exagerating, but i will probably bump the pop cap up another 10 -15, and on both teams so it is fair, i aint a cheater, and i aint inexperienced either



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Old 07-19-2006, 06:39 AM   #11
Daniel333
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l agree to comanguyler (think that's how you spelt sorry if l'm wrong)


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Old 07-19-2006, 07:51 AM   #12
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Some mistakes people make is to use Stormtroopers as a unit - which takes away from your pop cap - if they have an AT-AT in their attack force. The walkers can drop down troops into combat, so it's worth considering this if you are, of course, the Empire.

DMUK
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:01 AM   #13
ImpElite
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Cool Guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK
Some mistakes people make is to use Stormtroopers as a unit - which takes away from your pop cap - if they have an AT-AT in their attack force. The walkers can drop down troops into combat, so it's worth considering this if you are, of course, the Empire.

DMUK
I LOVE Imperials, I'll remember to use that one when against the AI
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