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View Poll Results: What storage medium would you want Kotor III on?
DVD only 40 47.62%
DVD and CD 28 33.33%
CD only 3 3.57%
I don't care 13 15.48%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: PC DVD-only
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:28 PM   #41
Alkonium
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Consider this though: you never hear about people wanting a version of the game with a lower CPU requirement, or RAM requirement. No, then the game wouldn't be as good. It's the same case for CD vs. DVD. A DVD version of the game would be better than a CD version.

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Old 03-30-2006, 06:53 PM   #42
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They need to make more games available on the PC too, even if they only sell them in limited numbers because the PC gamer crowd really doesnt always get a whole lot of options and if they do its usually some crummy modified console version.

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Consider this though: you never hear about people wanting a version of the game with a lower CPU requirement, or RAM requirement. No, then the game wouldn't be as good. It's the same case for CD vs. DVD. A DVD version of the game would be better than a CD version.
I do think they could tone some of the games down a bit. Many are way too graphic intensive for alot of lower ended computers when really alot of these games could still look good and play good if the graphics didnt quite look so flashy all the time.

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Old 03-30-2006, 08:05 PM   #43
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I realy dont care I would like a dvd version but it realy doesnt matter to me.


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Old 03-30-2006, 09:31 PM   #44
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I think both is the best idea because lot's of people don't have dvd drives.


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Old 03-30-2006, 10:39 PM   #45
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Doing both will be more costly for LA. You know greedy people.



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Old 03-31-2006, 12:48 AM   #46
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If your computer doesnt have DVD-drive, it cant probably even run Kotor-3 because I havent seen computers without DVD for long time. Also this game might be Vista only so you need probably pretty good computer.
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:00 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palpatine_dc
#1. I took the hardware survey of Steam network and in it's results it said that of around 2 000 000 people questioned 90% has a DVD rom
Except that a survey on the Steam network isn't reliable in this discussion. One only has to take into consideration who uses the network.


I voted DVD only. It's 2006 now. KotOR 3 will probably not come out until 2007. If you can't fork out $30 for a DVD drive, don't expect to play the game. You won't even have the necessary requirements.

Movies don't come out on VHS anymore (or very rarely). The transition was done. Now, let the transition from CD to DVD happen. It won't hurt that much

From what I can understand, certain regions in the world get their games only on DVD. The case of E@W for example. It was released only on DVD in the UK (that's what I heard), but both versions (CD & DVD) came out in the US. It could be that they choose their format by region. If one region has a higher percentage of DVD users, they'll release it on DVD only. If it's the opposite, they'll release on both, hoping to offset the higher cost of releasing on two formats by hitting a wider market.


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Old 03-31-2006, 10:16 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
It is less expensive to do 1 DVD. However, if only half the people have a DVD drive and the game is only done on DVD, you lose sales for those who only have a CD drive.
Of course. But all data that I have seen on DVD penetration indicates that those with systems capable of playing such a game but without a DVD drive are by far the minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Until they can be sure that most of the people who wanna buy KOTOR 3 have DVD players then its safer for all concerned if they make it on both mediums.
But Lucasarts, or any development company, will have a very clear pictures of what the DVD penetration is. They will then base their decision on those numbers, and not a wild guess. And it is in their best interest to release it on one medium if they can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
I would think that LA would want to keep their sales up. The goal of a corporation is to increase their profits. Basic economics folks. I don't think they would opt for an exclusive audience only because they would end up losing potential profits and that's like a no no in economics.
But you forgot the other part of basic economics. Cost. Profit is total money in minus total money out. Putting something on CD as well as DVD costs money. There has to be enough demand for the CD version for them to justify the cost. If the DVD penetration is high (and most data says that it is), then it isn't cost effective to release it on CD.

We are already seeing this. Many games are now DVD only. When you say exclusive audience, that audience may be the vast majority of consumers, and it is actually the CD only crowd that is exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They need to make more games available on the PC too, even if they only sell them in limited numbers
This shows my point above. If what JediMaster12 was saying was true, then just about all console, at least XBox, games would also be released for the PC. But they aren't. That is because the devs know they won't significantly increase sales to justify the PC development. Even something like KOTOR had 80+% of their sales on XBox. In most cases, there isn't enough demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by †Saint_Killa†
Doing both will be more costly for LA. You know greedy people.
Nothing greedy about it. It is a business model. You don't expect them to lose money on purpose do you? They have to pay their workers and shareholders like everyone else. Saying they are greedy because they want to make a profit is like saying you are greedy because you aren't willing to pay $200 for a game.

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Old 03-31-2006, 10:27 AM   #49
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I could care less. They both work for me.


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Old 03-31-2006, 03:15 PM   #50
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Doing both will be more costly for LA. You know greedy people.
They have plenty of money and their customers are worth it.
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Old 03-31-2006, 03:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
I voted DVD only. It's 2006 now. KotOR 3 will probably not come out until 2007. If you can't fork out $30 for a DVD drive, don't expect to play the game. You won't even have the necessary requirements.
Also. If oyu cant afford $30 for a DVD drive then you really cant afford $45 - $50 for a computer game. Put off buying one game for a little while. Upgrade your computer with a new bit of hardware and then buy more games.
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Old 04-01-2006, 01:16 AM   #52
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Its not necessarily the fact that people cant afford to buy a dvd player, maybe they just dont want to at the time and these retailers shouldnt be rushing people to use all this new technology until theyre ready. They just dont want to be willing to pay a little extra to try to please everybody by making games on both cd and dvd, they wanna just make the majority happy and leave everybody else out of luck. With the money Lucas and those guys make on all that Star Wars stuff and considering how popular it is and how much people play their games im sure they can afford to make both types of games to please everyone.
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Old 04-01-2006, 01:42 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Its not necessarily the fact that people cant afford to buy a dvd player, maybe they just dont want to at the time and these retailers shouldnt be rushing people to use all this new technology until theyre ready.
The retailers are "rushing" people? DVD drives are not new technology... my laptop is over 4 years old and it has a DVD drive.

The time has come for those of you with vintage CD drives to join us in the 21st century.

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Old 04-01-2006, 02:19 AM   #54
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KotOR III will obviously go on a DVD, if it goes anywhere. CDs are cumbersome and the way things are going, soon there will be content worth 7-8 CDs. UT2004 made history by being the first CD with 6 CDs. KotOR is 4 CDs (which was unusual for it's time). KotOR III, the way I envision it will have to be enormous and selling it on a CD will bankrupt LA. Besides, I've got a DVD drive now, so I don't need to bitch around!


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Old 04-04-2006, 11:53 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth333
What there's no option for 51/2" diskettes? j/k

I don't mind CDs but it's starting to be obsolete for games. New computers all sell with a DVD drives. I paid $52 Canadian dollars for a very good pioneer DVD drive. It took less than five minutes to install and it runs like a charm
Don't you mean 5 and a 1/4 disks?

5 1/4" -> 3 1/2" -> cd -> DVD -> Blueray or HD-DVD.

Personally I would like to see DVD only.
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:01 AM   #56
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I hate having 4 disks for one game, I vote DVD.



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Old 04-05-2006, 09:56 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Its not necessarily the fact that people cant afford to buy a dvd player, maybe they just dont want to at the time.
Then that is their fault. If they don't want to get what is required to play a game, then developers shouldn't be expected to cater to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
and these retailers shouldnt be rushing people to use all this new technology until theyre ready.
They are rushing no one. No one is forcing anyone to buy a DVD player. But you can't expect them to always handle the lowest common denominator. DVDs are by no means new technology. The main reason you are seeing a switch is because the vast majority of customers have them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They just dont want to be willing to pay a little extra to try to please everybody by making games on both cd and dvd
Why should they spend extra (and it may not be a little bit)? They are a business, not a charity. They rightfully do what will make them the most money (and that includes pleasing customers), not worry about some guy who is too cheep to buy a $30 DVD drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
they wanna just make the majority happy and leave everybody else out of luck.
And rightfully so. In general, they can't accomidate every person. They have to draw the line somewhere. They may see that they do not gain anything by providing it on CD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
With the money Lucas and those guys make on all that Star Wars stuff and considering how popular it is and how much people play their games im sure they can afford to make both types of games to please everyone.
First of all, Lucas has nothing to do with it, and Lucasfilm and Lucasarts are seperate companies, as are the other companies that make other SW merchandise. The money from one does not go to the other. Just because the films make X dollars doesn't mean that that money goes to making games. Lucasarts makes money based on the games they sell, and they have to justify their costs. They need to make a profit based on that. Plus, Lucasarts outsources most of their development to third parties, so much of the gross goes to them anyway.

And the fact of that matter is neither you nor I have any idea what Lucasarts budget is, and whether it is large or small.

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Old 04-05-2006, 08:48 PM   #58
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Then that is their fault. If they don't want to get what is required to play a game, then developers shouldn't be expected to cater to them.
Doesnt mean they need to have ridiculous requirements for a game that they know alot of people dont have yet. They dont always need to make these games run on the latest thing.

Quote:
They are rushing no one. No one is forcing anyone to buy a DVD player.
If they make all games only run on DVD then yeah they are forcing people to buy a dvd player if they want to play those games. Maybe these people wanna spend their money on other things.

Quote:
But you can't expect them to always handle the lowest common denominator. DVDs are by no means new technology. The main reason you are seeing a switch is because the vast majority of customers have them.
They can still make a few on cd for the people who wanna play it that way. Im not saying they should make the majority of them on cd, just enough to please those who still use cd drives.

Quote:
Why should they spend extra (and it may not be a little bit)? They are a business, not a charity.
So they can try to make everyone happy and keep people wanting to come back and buy more games. They need to treat their customers as people and not just as numbers in their checkbook.

Quote:
They rightfully do what will make them the most money (and that includes pleasing customers), not worry about some guy who is too cheep to buy a $30 DVD drive.
Why do they always have to make the "most" money? Why cant they try to make everyone happy and just make a reasonable amount of money? Who cares as long as they stay in business and keep people happy and keep them comin back for more.

Quote:
And rightfully so. In general, they can't accomidate every person.
They can come pretty darn close to doing that.

Quote:
They have to draw the line somewhere. They may see that they do not gain anything by providing it on CD.
Oh sure, but it still seems like there are enough people out there who still use cd-roms that they'll still make sometihng out of it.

Quote:
First of all, Lucas has nothing to do with it, and Lucasfilm and Lucasarts are seperate companies, as are the other companies that make other SW merchandise. The money from one does not go to the other.
Im sure Lucasarts still has to give Lucas some credit for allowing them to make games from his stuff.

Quote:
Just because the films make X dollars doesn't mean that that money goes to making games.
The more people go to see the movies and the more money the movies make the more people wanna go buy the games and the more money the games make for Lucasarts to go and make other games.

Quote:
Lucasarts makes money based on the games they sell, and they have to justify their costs. They need to make a profit based on that.
They probably make plenty of money, most people will go buy anything for the sole reason that it has the title "Star Wars" slapped on it. Thats the way it was with alot of those old Star Trek games that turned out to be garbage, people still bought them just cuz they had Star Trek on em.

Quote:
Plus, Lucasarts outsources most of their development to third parties, so much of the gross goes to them anyway.
Theyd probably do better if they just did all the work on the games themselves and then they could make sure theyre done right because itd be their own ideas and not some ideas from some person that may or may not know anything about Star Wars.

Quote:
And the fact of that matter is neither you nor I have any idea what Lucasarts budget is, and whether it is large or small.
Youre right but just the fact that Star Wars and all its merchandise is still going to this day indicates that it must be making some money.
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Doesnt mean they need to have ridiculous requirements for a game that they know alot of people dont have yet. They dont always need to make these games run on the latest thing.

If they make all games only run on DVD then yeah they are forcing people to buy a dvd player if they want to play those games. Maybe these people wanna spend their money on other things.

They can still make a few on cd for the people who wanna play it that way. Im not saying they should make the majority of them on cd, just enough to please those who still use cd drives.

So they can try to make everyone happy and keep people wanting to come back and buy more games. They need to treat their customers as people and not just as numbers in their checkbook.

Why do they always have to make the "most" money? Why cant they try to make everyone happy and just make a reasonable amount of money? Who cares as long as they stay in business and keep people happy and keep them comin back for more.

They can come pretty darn close to doing that.

Oh sure, but it still seems like there are enough people out there who still use cd-roms that they'll still make sometihng out of it.

Im sure Lucasarts still has to give Lucas some credit for allowing them to make games from his stuff.

The more people go to see the movies and the more money the movies make the more people wanna go buy the games and the more money the games make for Lucasarts to go and make other games.

They probably make plenty of money, most people will go buy anything for the sole reason that it has the title "Star Wars" slapped on it. Thats the way it was with alot of those old Star Trek games that turned out to be garbage, people still bought them just cuz they had Star Trek on em.

Theyd probably do better if they just did all the work on the games themselves and then they could make sure theyre done right because itd be their own ideas and not some ideas from some person that may or may not know anything about Star Wars.

Youre right but just the fact that Star Wars and all its merchandise is still going to this day indicates that it must be making some money.
LucasArts isn't a charity, why should they spend the extra cash (and possibly make the game more expensive) so a handful of users can play the game? As for your idea of treating the customers like people and not zeros in their checkbook, it's naïve and idealistic; they're trying to make money, not kiss their customers' asses.



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Last edited by RedHawke; 04-06-2006 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:56 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by jmac7142
they're trying to make money, not kiss their customers' asses.
Well, if their customer analysis would tell them that kissing their customers' asses would significantly raise their sells...
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:20 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Doesnt mean they need to have ridiculous requirements for a game that they know alot of people dont have yet. They dont always need to make these games run on the latest thing.
But it isn't a ridiculous requirement. The majority of people have them already. And to make a sellable game, it needs to standout against other games. That means solid graphics, gameplay, etc. That means reasonably high end hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
If they make all games only run on DVD then yeah they are forcing people to buy a dvd player if they want to play those games. Maybe these people wanna spend their money on other things.
If people decide that they want to spend money on other things, that is perfectly within their right. But that may also mean they are unable to play the game. They need to decide how badly they want to play. If they desire it enough, they will invest in a machine that can handle it. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They can still make a few on cd for the people who wanna play it that way. Im not saying they should make the majority of them on cd, just enough to please those who still use cd drives.
But making CDs is a rather large expense, and it isn't totally dependent on the number they make. So if there aren't enough people buying the CDs, the may actually lose money that way. But they will make that decision based on the numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Why do they always have to make the "most" money? Why cant they try to make everyone happy and just make a reasonable amount of money? Who cares as long as they stay in business and keep people happy and keep them comin back for more.
Oh DarthVandar205, if only the world though as you do.

The reason is that the company has a legal responsibility to its shareholders to make as much money as reasonably possible. So in short, the shareholders care. That is the nature of business in a capital system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Oh sure, but it still seems like there are enough people out there who still use cd-roms that they'll still make sometihng out of it.
That may be true. If that is the case, they will indeed make a CD version of the game. If there aren't that many (i.e. enough to make it worthwhile), then they won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
The more people go to see the movies and the more money the movies make the more people wanna go buy the games and the more money the games make for Lucasarts to go and make other games.
Indirectly yes. The point is that some of the money taken in by the films is not given to Lucasarts the game company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They probably make plenty of money, most people will go buy anything for the sole reason that it has the title "Star Wars" slapped on it.
Ain't that the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Theyd probably do better if they just did all the work on the games themselves and then they could make sure theyre done right because itd be their own ideas and not some ideas from some person that may or may not know anything about Star Wars.
They used to do it that way. Back in the 1980's and 1990's Lucasarts developed may of their games themselves, and actually had a reasonably solid reputation as a developer (with games like Rebel Assault, etc.). But over time that quality diminished and there was a lot of criticism leveled at them. They then turned to high profile third parties to develop games for them (Bioware and KOTOR, and Raven and JK2 being great examples).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Youre right but just the fact that Star Wars and all its merchandise is still going to this day indicates that it must be making some money.
No doubt they are making money. But remember that developing a game requires a huge amount of money, as in millions. So that means even if a game makes millions of dollars in sales that does not mean they will make a profit, or that the profit will be large.

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Old 04-06-2006, 11:38 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Doesnt mean they need to have ridiculous requirements for a game that they know alot of people dont have yet. They dont always need to make these games run on the latest thing.
Actually, they do.
This is not logical. What you seem to want is a KotOR3 also capable of running on an old NES because many people in the world can't afford current generation hardware. It's stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
If they make all games only run on DVD then yeah they are forcing people to buy a dvd player if they want to play those games. Maybe these people wanna spend their money on other things.
Of course. I also want lots of free stuff. However, it doesn't work that way. I bring you back to the point above. Can't keep up, not anyone's fault but yourself. It's like being pissed because the requirements for a game are too high and asking them to lower the graphics and effects just so they can somehow cater to the ''majority''.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They can still make a few on cd for the people who wanna play it that way. Im not saying they should make the majority of them on cd, just enough to please those who still use cd drives.
AND raise their costs. Doing it on a small scale will drastically increase costs for little gain.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
So they can try to make everyone happy and keep people wanting to come back and buy more games. They need to treat their customers as people and not just as numbers in their checkbook.
And they also do. However, in the words of my good friend Juan Pablo Rodriguez: ''There will always be whining.''
You can't cater to everyone and you know it. They cater to the majority or to their specific market. That's all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Why do they always have to make the "most" money? Why cant they try to make everyone happy and just make a reasonable amount of money? Who cares as long as they stay in business and keep people happy and keep them comin back for more.
Because that's what investors want? I invest money, I expect to make the highest possible amount of money with it. I'll open a charitable organization if I want to help people out but if I open a bussiness, I'm there to make a lot of money. period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They can come pretty darn close to doing that.
Impossible. They won't satisfy that many.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Oh sure, but it still seems like there are enough people out there who still use cd-roms that they'll still make sometihng out of it.
In 2007?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Im sure Lucasarts still has to give Lucas some credit for allowing them to make games from his stuff.
Probably some money will go back to Lucasfilms just for a question of license, but Lucasfilms won't get a share of the profits.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
The more people go to see the movies and the more money the movies make the more people wanna go buy the games and the more money the games make for Lucasarts to go and make other games.

Yes, but that money made from the movies are not given to Lucasarts to make games. This is only a question of taking advantage of the popularity of a concept.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They probably make plenty of money, most people will go buy anything for the sole reason that it has the title "Star Wars" slapped on it. Thats the way it was with alot of those old Star Trek games that turned out to be garbage, people still bought them just cuz they had Star Trek on em.
Doesn't make them not look for profit and it isn't entirely true. Some Star Wars games were less popular then others and didn't make much money. It isn't as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Theyd probably do better if they just did all the work on the games themselves and then they could make sure theyre done right because itd be their own ideas and not some ideas from some person that may or may not know anything about Star Wars.
You're right. I don't know anything about Star Wars. All hail LucasArts, bearer of the word of Star Wars
Just because they give contracts to make games doesn't mean that the company knows nothing about Star Wars.
It's totally illogical. Techinically, you'd claim that Activision would know more about WWII then Infinity Ward thus they should have made Call of Duty. It makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Youre right but just the fact that Star Wars and all its merchandise is still going to this day indicates that it must be making some money.
Yes, they do make money, but we don't know what their profit margin is, what their costs are and everything else. Fact is, their profit margin may be far lower then we imagine.

EDIT: Damn you Prime I came just a few minutes too late.


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Old 04-06-2006, 01:03 PM   #63
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DVD only, its taking far to long for games to be released on DVD for the PC, any PC new enough to play most new games will have come with a DVD drive and for those that didnt there is no reason for them not to upgrade since DVD players are dirt cheap. Need to get over this CD-ROM nonsense now especially with all the consoles using DVDs and games taking up ever incerasing numbers of CDs. Remember Baldur's Gate came on 5 CDs (6 if you count TotSC expansion) way back in the late ninties. Its been a bizarly slow changeover process and its getting ridiculous at this stage.
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Buzz1978
Well, if their customer analysis would tell them that kissing their customers' asses would significantly raise their sells...
Not really. If they make a good product people will buy it. For instance, Microsoft releases buggy products and is now putting out their new OS that'll make customers have to replace most of their software, but it's still the best selling OS.

You're overestimating the intelligence of the average consumer, most of them don't know when they're being f***ed over.



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Old 04-06-2006, 06:43 PM   #65
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to all of those people that think that a publisher is going to lose sales by not having a CD version available: you're wrong. i just got done driving around my town to 10 different stores looking for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. places like Gamestop, EB Games, Best Buy, and even Walmart didn't have a single copy due to the game's popularity. here's the real kicker: the game is DVD only.

with that kind of success, i'm really inclined to think that much more games are going to DVD only releases. the only reason why CD's are even around is because of the music industry. even then, CD's are losing ground to online download services as the most popular form of getting music. trust me: the "golden age" of CD's is long past.


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Old 04-06-2006, 08:20 PM   #66
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LucasArts isn't a charity, why should they spend the extra cash (and possibly make the game more expensive) so a handful of users can play the game?
So those handful can buy the game and play it.

Quote:
As for your idea of treating the customers like people and not zeros in their checkbook, it's naïve and idealistic; they're trying to make money, not kiss their customers' asses.
Why not do both? Kiss their asses and make some decent money at the same time. Its not just one or the other.

Quote:
But it isn't a ridiculous requirement. The majority of people have them already. And to make a sellable game, it needs to standout against other games. That means solid graphics, gameplay, etc. That means reasonably high end hardware.
Alot of games ive played tend to have real flashy graphics but their gameplay sucks. Some of the things they want to acheive with these games they could do through just having a solid storyline and good characters, the graphics dont always have to be top notch to get the people into the game if it has a story and characters that pull people into the game.

Quote:
If people decide that they want to spend money on other things, that is perfectly within their right. But that may also mean they are unable to play the game. They need to decide how badly they want to play. If they desire it enough, they will invest in a machine that can handle it. They can't have their cake and eat it too.
They shouldnt be forced to make that decision one way or the other, they should be able to upgrade their machines when they feel like it not when some idiot game developer decides to move on to the latest toy. These people move way too fast they need to slow down a bit and let people catch up.

Quote:
But making CDs is a rather large expense, and it isn't totally dependent on the number they make. So if there aren't enough people buying the CDs, the may actually lose money that way. But they will make that decision based on the numbers.
DVD's and CD's dont cost that much anymore.

Quote:
The reason is that the company has a legal responsibility to its shareholders to make as much money as reasonably possible. So in short, the shareholders care. That is the nature of business in a capital system.
Then the shareholders need to be more reasonable and take what they can get, its better than nothing. Most of them dont care what they do to a company or its customers as long as it makes them filthy rich.

Quote:
They used to do it that way. Back in the 1980's and 1990's Lucasarts developed may of their games themselves, and actually had a reasonably solid reputation as a developer (with games like Rebel Assault, etc.). But over time that quality diminished and there was a lot of criticism leveled at them.
That probably had to do with the kind of people they got working for them and those people just thought that they could come up with anything and it would sell just because of the name slapped on it. Lucasarts just got fat dumb and lazy.

Quote:
They then turned to high profile third parties to develop games for them (Bioware and KOTOR, and Raven and JK2 being great examples).
Yeah and look what happened with Jedi Outcast and KOTOR 2. They both look and feel rushed and they didnt turn out half as good as they should have.

Quote:
Actually, they do.
This is not logical. What you seem to want is a KotOR3 also capable of running on an old NES because many people in the world can't afford current generation hardware. It's stupid.
Of course I dont want it to be able to run on NES. I simply want these games to be able to run on a vast variety of systems so that even those people who might not have a top notch system can still find a way to enjoy the game. Some games have a way too high minimum system requirement.

Quote:
Of course. I also want lots of free stuff. However, it doesn't work that way. I bring you back to the point above. Can't keep up, not anyone's fault but yourself. It's like being pissed because the requirements for a game are too high and asking them to lower the graphics and effects just so they can somehow cater to the ''majority''.
I just want games that can work on a variety of machines so that people dont feel so rushed to update their computers everytime they turn around and some new flashy gadget comes out to make their game better.

Quote:
AND raise their costs. Doing it on a small scale will drastically increase costs for little gain.
Its better than not making any CD versions at all.

Quote:
And they also do. However, in the words of my good friend Juan Pablo Rodriguez: ''There will always be whining.''
You can't cater to everyone and you know it. They cater to the majority or to their specific market. That's all.
If you have a game that runs on both CD and DVD, who's gonna be whining? Those are the only two things that run on the PC anymore. Nobody uses floppy disks anymore so its not like theyre gonna be whining that there isnt a version for them. You can please everyone in this case.

Quote:
Because that's what investors want? I invest money, I expect to make the highest possible amount of money with it. I'll open a charitable organization if I want to help people out but if I open a bussiness, I'm there to make a lot of money. period.
Thats where the greed comes in, why cant people just be happy making enough money and not always have to go for the top or the very best? Itd be nice to get that yeah but I mean thats not always the best thing for everyone involved.

Quote:
Probably some money will go back to Lucasfilms just for a question of license, but Lucasfilms won't get a share of the profits.
They still get money indirectly because people who play the games will go watch the movie and buy other star wars stuff and vice versa.

Quote:
Doesn't make them not look for profit and it isn't entirely true. Some Star Wars games were less popular then others and didn't make much money. It isn't as simple as that.
Im sure this was more true in the beginning when star wars games first came out when people didnt know any better. Still there are alot of guilable people out there who buy games that dont read any of the reviews.

Quote:
Yes, they do make money, but we don't know what their profit margin is, what their costs are and everything else. Fact is, their profit margin may be far lower then we imagine.
Thats a little hard to swallow. They may not be doing the absoulute best but it seems to me that theyre still doing pretty good. You dont have to know all the numbers and technical mumbo jumbo to see that.
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:37 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Alot of games ive played tend to have real flashy graphics but their gameplay sucks. Some of the things they want to acheive with these games they could do through just having a solid storyline and good characters, the graphics dont always have to be top notch to get the people into the game if it has a story and characters that pull people into the game.
Unfortunately a LOT of gamers prefer flashy graphics to gameplay, just look at Doom3. Gameplay was so-so at best but hey it looked good and sold very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They shouldnt be forced to make that decision one way or the other, they should be able to upgrade their machines when they feel like it not when some idiot game developer decides to move on to the latest toy. These people move way too fast they need to slow down a bit and let people catch up.
Why? Why shouldnt game companies push the envelope and get better and better with the new technology? Just because some people want to still use 26 year old technology in their computer (ie CD drives) doesnt mean game companies cant move on to DVD's and sell to those willing to actually move in the the 21st century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Of course I dont want it to be able to run on NES. I simply want these games to be able to run on a vast variety of systems so that even those people who might not have a top notch system can still find a way to enjoy the game. Some games have a way too high minimum system requirement.
Again why? A DVD drive should be a minimum requirement these days. Same as at least a generation 5 video card, why should gaming companies had to lower their game requirments to be usable on 5 year old tech? or 7 year old? or even older? Its the 21st century, join us or let behind complaining about the fact you arent willing to spend less then a game on a piece of computer equipment that is a LOT better then the old tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
I just want games that can work on a variety of machines so that people dont feel so rushed to update their computers everytime they turn around and some new flashy gadget comes out to make their game better.
People arent "rushed" as you put it. DVD drives have been out for YEARS. They didnt just come out last week. As far as I am concerned games should be rushing publishing houses to move to DVD and leave CD behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
If you have a game that runs on both CD and DVD, who's gonna be whining? Those are the only two things that run on the PC anymore. Nobody uses floppy disks anymore so its not like theyre gonna be whining that there isnt a version for them. You can please everyone in this case.
Pleasing everyone isnt their goal. Making money is. It's called business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Thats where the greed comes in, why cant people just be happy making enough money and not always have to go for the top or the very best? Itd be nice to get that yeah but I mean thats not always the best thing for everyone involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Then the shareholders need to be more reasonable and take what they can get, its better than nothing. Most of them dont care what they do to a company or its customers as long as it makes them filthy rich.
Im guessing you have no idea why shareholders hold shares right? TO make money. And as Prime pointed out it is the LEGAL requirement of a company to maximise profits for their shreholders. Shareholders that feel they aren't getting the best for their dollar will pull out and go elsewhere with their money. If I put money in to a business and they turned around and said they were going to make "a little bit of money" rather then "a lot of money" so they could be "nice" I would sell my shares and take my money elsewhere.
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:29 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
to all of those people that think that a publisher is going to lose sales by not having a CD version available: you're wrong. i just got done driving around my town to 10 different stores looking for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. places like Gamestop, EB Games, Best Buy, and even Walmart didn't have a single copy due to the game's popularity. here's the real kicker: the game is DVD only.

with that kind of success, i'm really inclined to think that much more games are going to DVD only releases. the only reason why CD's are even around is because of the music industry. even then, CD's are losing ground to online download services as the most popular form of getting music. trust me: the "golden age" of CD's is long past.
I see. I won't have a problem because my laptop has aDVD drive. I just feel that way because of the 360 thing. My brother and I will have to wait a year and a half before getting that hardware. I still like to play CDs because I can't afford and iPod or MP3 whatever. I ripped my music onto my hardrive so in case I do ever get one, I can put my fav tunes on it. Some people just don't have the kind of money to get the hardware that the new stuff requires. I would think that would be taken into account.

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Old 04-06-2006, 09:33 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by JediMaster12
I see. I won't have a problem because my laptop has aDVD drive. I just feel that way because of the 360 thing. My brother and I will have to wait a year and a half before getting that hardware. I still like to play CDs because I can't afford and iPod or MP3 whatever. I ripped my music onto my hardrive so in case I do ever get one, I can put my fav tunes on it. Some people just don't have the kind of money to get the hardware that the new stuff requires. I would think that would be taken into account.
Well if u think about it if u cant afford a $30 dvd drive then u cant afford a $50 game.


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Old 04-07-2006, 01:45 AM   #70
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I've priced a few things and the DVD/CD drive I bought for my old laptop cost about $50 and that was when it was on sale. Pricing varies depending on what you want.

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Old 04-07-2006, 02:46 AM   #71
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Unfortunately a LOT of gamers prefer flashy graphics to gameplay, just look at Doom3. Gameplay was so-so at best but hey it looked good and sold very well.
I think the story was barely good enough and theres enough people out there who like to just shoot things up that they just bought the game anyways. I guess they thought somethin was better than nothing.

Quote:
Why? Why shouldnt game companies push the envelope and get better and better with the new technology?
They could just work with what theyve got and make games for things that are already out that alot of people already have so they dont have to go out and buy something new just to enjoy a game that could be made to run just as easily on something more simple.

Quote:
Just because some people want to still use 26 year old technology in their computer (ie CD drives) doesnt mean game companies cant move on to DVD's and sell to those willing to actually move in the the 21st century.
They should sell things to those people who WANT to use DVD's but they should also have things available for those who dont want to or areint able to move onto that new stuff yet.

Quote:
Again why? A DVD drive should be a minimum requirement these days. Same as at least a generation 5 video card, why should gaming companies had to lower their game requirments to be usable on 5 year old tech? or 7 year old? or even older? Its the 21st century, join us or let behind complaining about the fact you arent willing to spend less then a game on a piece of computer equipment that is a LOT better then the old tech.
Some of that old stuff actually lasts longer than some of that new junk coming out and there are alot of things out now that run on that old stuff that wont run or wont run as good on the new stuff. Everybody's so eager to get all the new stuff just cuz its all flashy n everything but they really dont think about all the drawbacks of it sometimes.

Quote:
People arent "rushed" as you put it. DVD drives have been out for YEARS. They didnt just come out last week. As far as I am concerned games should be rushing publishing houses to move to DVD and leave CD behind.
Maybe some people have better things to spend money on.

Quote:
Pleasing everyone isnt their goal. Making money is. It's called business.
Why cant they make money and please people in the process? Making money isnt worth it unless your customers are pleased. Not everything is about money in this world dispite what all the greedy politicians and big company execs might tell ya. Just because all of them are so filthy rich that they can afford not to have to care about anyone but themselves.

Quote:
Im guessing you have no idea why shareholders hold shares right? TO make money. And as Prime pointed out it is the LEGAL requirement of a company to maximise profits for their shreholders.
Doesnt mean they have to do it at the expense of the well being of their customers.

Quote:
Shareholders that feel they aren't getting the best for their dollar will pull out and go elsewhere with their money.
Hey, its their loss, I mean if theyd rather get shares from some greedy corporation that squeezes money out of people rather than a legit company that gets money the more customer friendly way then thats their choice.

Quote:
If I put money in to a business and they turned around and said they were going to make "a little bit of money" rather then "a lot of money" so they could be "nice" I would sell my shares and take my money elsewhere
In the end then youd be the one losing and not them Heck, they might go bankrupt but hey they still have their dignity and they made their customer's happy too.

Quote:
Well if u think about it if u cant afford a $30 dvd drive then u cant afford a $50 game.
Well, what if you have a tight budget and have to chose between buying a dvd player or a game, wouldnt you rather just buy the game and have it play on a cd player rather than having to buy both a game and a dvd player just to play it on? Sometimes you cant buy both and its more fun to have the game than it is to have a dvd player that you may or may not be able to play anything on.
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Old 04-07-2006, 04:06 AM   #72
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I'll go with the dvd. That's a hole lot better than 4or5 cd's and you don't even use those other ones. But it's pretty sad if some people can't play the game if they don't have a dvd-drive.
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:37 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They could just work with what theyve got and make games for things that are already out that alot of people already have so they dont have to go out and buy something new just to enjoy a game that could be made to run just as easily on something more simple.

(Snipped rest of post for space saving)

Well, what if you have a tight budget and have to chose between buying a dvd player or a game, wouldnt you rather just buy the game and have it play on a cd player rather than having to buy both a game and a dvd player just to play it on? Sometimes you cant buy both and its more fun to have the game than it is to have a dvd player that you may or may not be able to play anything on.
I really don't see any of your statements as viable in the world of computers and the hobby of PC Gaming. You have to be able to upgrade your components or your machine on a timely basis or else you will become outmoded anyway, your statement is all a moot point because of this fact.

It matters not on what outdated mode you wish to install a game. The CD's time has passed, like the Floppy discs that came before it, time to move on.

$19-$30 isn't really that expensive for an upgrade, and no matter what statements to the contrary you post here you will have to either upgrade your PC's components or you won't be able to play the newer games anyway.

In the end game companiess are switching over to the DVD format, and it is something you and the other holdouts will need to adjust to, or your PC will simply become an obsolete paperweight, and rightfully so.

Just some food for thought.


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Old 04-07-2006, 09:54 AM   #74
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I think the story was barely good enough and theres enough people out there who like to just shoot things up that they just bought the game anyways. I guess they thought somethin was better than nothing.
Except that the shoot things up part was barely fun. So it just sold because it's Doom and it looked cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They could just work with what theyve got and make games for things that are already out that alot of people already have so they dont have to go out and buy something new just to enjoy a game that could be made to run just as easily on something more simple.
Except that it won't sell as well. It's the reality of things. Besides, I like my games when they look really nice. If you didn't care about graphics, you'd be playing a pen&paper RPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They should sell things to those people who WANT to use DVD's but they should also have things available for those who dont want to or areint able to move onto that new stuff yet.
No they don't. Like I said, they don't have to release a PS1 version or something. It's how things work.
Same thing with movies. Who here has heard of a movie coming out on VHS lately?



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Some of that old stuff actually lasts longer than some of that new junk coming out and there are alot of things out now that run on that old stuff that wont run or wont run as good on the new stuff. Everybody's so eager to get all the new stuff just cuz its all flashy n everything but they really dont think about all the drawbacks of it sometimes.
No, not everyone is eager to get the new stuff. By the way, you can still use CDs on a DVD/CD player.
Besides, my computer is 3 years old and I managed to get as much juice out of it as possible. It should maybe last me until 2007. Yeah, I twitched a few things, but if you do it right, your hardware can keep up for quite a while. To do that, I got a DVD player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Maybe some people have better things to spend money on.
Then don't play games because it is a rather useless thing to spend money on. I can buy a soccer ball and go out and play with my buddies. It'll cost me 50$ for a good ball and I'll use it for at least 2-3 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Why cant they make money and please people in the process? Making money isnt worth it unless your customers are pleased. Not everything is about money in this world dispite what all the greedy politicians and big company execs might tell ya. Just because all of them are so filthy rich that they can afford not to have to care about anyone but themselves.
Do you have a job or ever had a job?
I'll give you a simple example. You work for $20 an hour. Very good salary. You love your boss. She's great (she, because it's hotter this way :P ) with you. You want to make her happy. So one day, you come into her office and ask her to cut your salary in half because you want to please her. Hell, you want to earn minimal wage. You want to make her happy.
Will that happen? No way in hell.
Whenever I work, I expect to be paid what my boss promised me. $10 an hour? I get my $10 an hour. I also help out Héma-Québec sometimes with their blood donations. I do it for free. My goal is to help out. Not make money. I do it out of charity but when I am there to make money, I want to make money. It's not greed, it's getting paid for what you're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Doesnt mean they have to do it at the expense of the well being of their customers.
I don't think it'll affect your "well-being" that much. I don't think you'll die just because of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Hey, its their loss, I mean if theyd rather get shares from some greedy corporation that squeezes money out of people rather than a legit company that gets money the more customer friendly way then thats their choice.
Actually, they win. They make their money. Sure, you can invest in "cleaner" bussinesses but that does not negate the fact that you're there to make money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
In the end then youd be the one losing and not them Heck, they might go bankrupt but hey they still have their dignity and they made their customer's happy too.
Dignity? You're talking as if they were forcing little children to make video games. By the way, they made a handful of customers happy. The rest of us are pissed because they won't release any games anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Well, what if you have a tight budget and have to chose between buying a dvd player or a game, wouldnt you rather just buy the game and have it play on a cd player rather than having to buy both a game and a dvd player just to play it on? Sometimes you cant buy both and its more fun to have the game than it is to have a dvd player that you may or may not be able to play anything on.
Actually, a DVD player doesn't stop you from using CDs. So there's no "may or may not".
We're all on tight budgets, but we can make choices. I can buy two games(about 100$) and get short term enjoyment out of it or I can buy one game and a DVD player(about 80$). I can still buy my second game when I get $30 and I would've invested in the future. I can now save my data on a 4Gb disk and play DVDs on my computer.


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Old 04-07-2006, 11:51 AM   #75
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Damn you Prime I came just a few minutes too late.
You forgot about my cat-like speed!

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Originally Posted by stingerhs
the only reason why CD's are even around is because of the music industry.
And they play in DVD drives!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
So those handful can buy the game and play it.
Those handful need to spend $30 on a DVD drive and join the 21 century. It's 2006 for crying out loud!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They shouldnt be forced to make that decision one way or the other, they should be able to upgrade their machines when they feel like it not when some idiot game developer decides to move on to the latest toy. These people move way too fast they need to slow down a bit and let people catch up.
LOL, latest toy? Way too fast? DVD drives have been out for over 8 years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
DVD's and CD's dont cost that much anymore.
Uh, it isn't the cost of the disks that is expensive...

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Then the shareholders need to be more reasonable and take what they can get, its better than nothing. Most of them dont care what they do to a company or its customers as long as it makes them filthy rich.
If companies screw over their customers, they go out of business. And shareholders have a legal right to expect maximum returns on their investments. If it turns out a company doesn't provide that, that company pays huge fines and the execs can possibly go to prison.

You want them to do that all because you don't want to spend $30? I don't think they are the ones who are greedy...

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Yeah and look what happened with Jedi Outcast and KOTOR 2. They both look and feel rushed and they didnt turn out half as good as they should have.
That was because of Lucasarts development timeframe requirements, not because the developers were lazy/not capable.

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
I simply want these games to be able to run on a vast variety of systems so that even those people who might not have a top notch system can still find a way to enjoy the game.
They will run on the vast majority of systems. DVD only PCs are the vast majority of systems. And systems that didn't come with a DVD drive won't be able to play the game anyway.

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
I just want games that can work on a variety of machines so that people dont feel so rushed to update their computers everytime they turn around and some new flashy gadget comes out to make their game better.
DVD drives are not a flashy new gadget. They are old. And expecting people to upgrade after almost a decade is not "rushing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Those are the only two things that run on the PC anymore. Nobody uses floppy disks anymore so its not like theyre gonna be whining that there isnt a version for them. You can please everyone in this case.
CDs are the new floppy disks.

I have a floppy disk drive on my machine, but I don't have a CD drive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Thats where the greed comes in, why cant people just be happy making enough money and not always have to go for the top or the very best? Itd be nice to get that yeah but I mean thats not always the best thing for everyone involved.
Because they need to pay their employees so thay can feed their families.

And the only ones who are greedy are those who expect the lastest games but are unwilling to spend $30 in order to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
They should sell things to those people who WANT to use DVD's but they should also have things available for those who dont want to or areint able to move onto that new stuff yet.
If they don't want to, then they are deciding not to play the game. That's up to them. Expecting to be catered to is just being greedy.

If they can't spend $30 on a DVD drive, they can't afford the game anyway. Or they can buy the drive, then save their allowance to buy the game.

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Maybe some people have better things to spend money on.
That's fine. But then they shouldn't be able to play the game.

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Not everything is about money in this world dispite what all the greedy politicians and big company execs might tell ya.
But it is everything in business. The only thing. And that is what we are talking about here. Business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Just because all of them are so filthy rich that they can afford not to have to care about anyone but themselves.
But the employees and developers need to get payed so that they can feed their families. That is why the games need to make money.

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Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Doesnt mean they have to do it at the expense of the well being of their customers.
They aren't. They aren't forcing you to buy anything. They are not harming you in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Hey, its their loss, I mean if theyd rather get shares from some greedy corporation that squeezes money out of people rather than a legit company that gets money the more customer friendly way then thats their choice.
They legally have to. All companies have to. They go out of business/go to prison otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
In the end then youd be the one losing and not them Heck, they might go bankrupt but hey they still have their dignity and they made their customer's happy too.
I can't put food on the table and clothes on my daughter with dignity.

And the customers won't be happy, because they would get no more games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVandar205
Well, what if you have a tight budget and have to chose between buying a dvd player or a game, wouldnt you rather just buy the game and have it play on a cd player rather than having to buy both a game and a dvd player just to play it on? Sometimes you cant buy both and its more fun to have the game than it is to have a dvd player that you may or may not be able to play anything on.
You can always buy both. You can buy one and then save up for the other. Why do you have to get both at the same time? That's just greedy!

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Old 04-07-2006, 01:24 PM   #76
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Some people don't think that way Prime and I don't think they have patience with these sort of things, myself included. I guess I feel outmoded because it seems no sooner that I look that there is a new and improved gizmo. I still remember working on the old apple macs in kindergarden, the REALLY OLD ones. The world is chaning so rapidly and we are all rushing to keep up with it. How could we possibly keep going at the pace we are at now?
Forgive me if I sound philosophical. I'm not concerned too much because I have the DVD function on my laptop and I have a drive for the old one for my brother. He just doesn't play as much as I do on PC. He's an XBox freak and he's into fast and furious type games. *sigh* The wonderful world of technology.

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Old 04-07-2006, 05:41 PM   #77
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Like prime said it would be better to get a DVD drive so u can play the games that will come out in the future. If u cant aford a dvd drive then u realy need to get a job or something and if u have a job and u still cant afford it then u might need to sell your computer or something if u are that poor.


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Old 04-07-2006, 08:02 PM   #78
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Quote:
I really don't see any of your statements as viable in the world of computers and the hobby of PC Gaming. You have to be able to upgrade your components or your machine on a timely basis or else you will become outmoded anyway, your statement is all a moot point because of this fact.
Everytime I turn around I find a game that I need to get some new upgrade for my computer with and its not just disk drives, its everything else too. I can barely get enough stuff to get my computer to play the games that are already out before a new game comes out that requires some other new gadget for me to get. These guys move way too fast. Its bad enough that I just got a new video card and I have to get some more memory too. By the time I do that the new games will want something else.

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It matters not on what outdated mode you wish to install a game. The CD's time has passed, like the Floppy discs that came before it, time to move on.
All this moving on is what the problem is, before we know it we'll have to move on from DVD's to some other new form of disc. I just wish people would slow down just a tad and be happy with what they got.

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$19-$30 isn't really that expensive for an upgrade, and no matter what statements to the contrary you post here you will have to either upgrade your PC's components or you won't be able to play the newer games anyway.
It is when you have to buy several upgrades plus an overpriced game to play on it.

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In the end game companiess are switching over to the DVD format, and it is something you and the other holdouts will need to adjust to, or your PC will simply become an obsolete paperweight, and rightfully so.
By the time we get dvd players, the game companies will be moving onto some other medium. They need to stop encouraging and supporting people getting the newest thing so quickly. Theyre half the problem and reason why people do this. Nobody seems to have any choice.

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Except that the shoot things up part was barely fun. So it just sold because it's Doom and it looked cool.
The majority of the game was shooting things up, but it still had a pretty good story. People are just so picky now they dont notice that.

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Except that it won't sell as well. It's the reality of things. Besides, I like my games when they look really nice. If you didn't care about graphics, you'd be playing a pen&paper RPG.
The reason it wont sell well is because companies are only selling the new stuff and shoving the issue of buying things that run the new stuff down people's throats. They really dont have any choice but to buy the new stuff.

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No they don't. Like I said, they don't have to release a PS1 version or something. It's how things work.
Same thing with movies. Who here has heard of a movie coming out on VHS lately?
Of course they dont, just about everybody who has playstation, has PS2. Even if they dont PS1 games play just fine on PS2.

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Besides, my computer is 3 years old and I managed to get as much juice out of it as possible. It should maybe last me until 2007. Yeah, I twitched a few things, but if you do it right, your hardware can keep up for quite a while. To do that, I got a DVD player.
Its just that some of the new computers just feel more flimsy and look like theyve just been slapped together quickly and people dont take the care and scrutiny they did with building them like they have in the past.

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Then don't play games because it is a rather useless thing to spend money on. I can buy a soccer ball and go out and play with my buddies. It'll cost me 50$ for a good ball and I'll use it for at least 2-3 years.
A game isnt useless to buy if you can play it on what you already have on your computer without having to buy something new for your pc.

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Do you have a job or ever had a job?
I'll give you a simple example. You work for $20 an hour. Very good salary. You love your boss. She's great (she, because it's hotter this way :P ) with you. You want to make her happy. So one day, you come into her office and ask her to cut your salary in half because you want to please her. Hell, you want to earn minimal wage. You want to make her happy.
Will that happen? No way in hell.
I wouldnt do that. Id be pleased with whatever she was paying me. I would want to please her simply by coming in everyday and doing the best job I could for her at whatever im assigned to do there each day. If she wasnt pleased with paying me what she does then she wouldnt pay me as much. If she pays me alot then obviously ive done something to deserve that and have impressed her somehow.

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Whenever I work, I expect to be paid what my boss promised me. $10 an hour? I get my $10 an hour. I also help out Héma-Québec sometimes with their blood donations. I do it for free. My goal is to help out. Not make money. I do it out of charity but when I am there to make money, I want to make money. It's not greed, it's getting paid for what you're doing.
You should get paid what you are promised only if youre doing a good enough job to deserve getting paid what they promise you. Theyre not gonna pay you that amount for doing a less than 100% effort at what youre doing no matter what they promise you. If im doing a job I want to get paid like anyone else for what I do but I also want to be able to leave there everyday knowing I helped someone and made someone's day better, if I wasnt able to do that then I really dont feel I did my full days work and just getting the money isnt worth it besides the fact that I have money to sustain myself.

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I don't think it'll affect your "well-being" that much. I don't think you'll die just because of that.
Well you wont die but your life could still be miserable anyways, sometimes thats worse than dying.

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Actually, they win. They make their money. Sure, you can invest in "cleaner" bussinesses but that does not negate the fact that you're there to make money.
Sure they win financially, but otherwise they lose. Making that money isnt worth it if you know that you got it from someone that got it through dishonest or immoral ways.

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Dignity? You're talking as if they were forcing little children to make video games. By the way, they made a handful of customers happy. The rest of us are pissed because they won't release any games anymore.
You never know where they get the stuff they make in foreign countries from, for all you know it couldve been made by some lil kid there for 10c an hour. I doubt they do anything that cruel but I still think alot of these companies just really dont care that much about their customers unless they spending alot of money to buy their games. They put on this big show like they care but underneath all the warm and fuzzyness of it all theyre just a bunch of greedy people who want to squeeze every cent out of you that they possibly can and I wouldnt be as upset if theyd just can the disguise and actually admit that sometimes.

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We're all on tight budgets, but we can make choices. I can buy two games(about 100$) and get short term enjoyment out of it or I can buy one game and a DVD player(about 80$). I can still buy my second game when I get $30 and I would've invested in the future. I can now save my data on a 4Gb disk and play DVDs on my computer
If thats all you had to get but sometimes new games require other hardware upgrades besides just dvd players and thats when it gets really annoying, especially when you just got done upgrading for the last game.

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Those handful need to spend $30 on a DVD drive and join the 21 century. It's 2006 for crying out loud!
Why should they have to follow the crowd just because thats the way theyre going? Gee, if these same people were walking off the side of a bridge, should the handfuls of people just follow them because thats what everybody else is doing? I dont think so.

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LOL, latest toy? Way too fast? DVD drives have been out for over 8 years!
If its not dvd players, its something else. People had trouble adjusting to dvds when they first came out. In reality dvds dont last nearly as long as people originally thought they did.

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Uh, it isn't the cost of the disks that is expensive...
Then what is it? I doubt its the flashy box that makes people upchuck 50 bucks per game. People didnt used to have to pay that for new games of similar quality.

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If companies screw over their customers, they go out of business.
No they dont because there are always enough guilable people they can con and brainwash into buying their stuff and most of them are too stiff to understand theyre being cheated. Besides the few that do figure it out the companies can usually afford to lose.

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And shareholders have a legal right to expect maximum returns on their investments. If it turns out a company doesn't provide that, that company pays huge fines and the execs can possibly go to prison.
These companies can only do the best the can. They cant always be expected to give back exactly a 100% of what they are given. Its one thing if they got 100% and kept most of it to themselves but if they honestly couldnt make as much back as they were given then its not their fault cuz they did their best. No reason for someone to get fined or go to jail.

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You want them to do that all because you don't want to spend $30? I don't think they are the ones who are greedy...
It always starts just being $30 for one thing and then it becomes $30 for something else and then something else and so on and so forth. These companies dont care because theyre not the ones who have to pay it all the time, if they did then theyd be singing another tune.

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That was because of Lucasarts development timeframe requirements, not because the developers were lazy/not capable.
They couldve stuck up for themselves and explained that the time they were given was not a reasonable expectation for the game being completed. They couldve had more backbone. Lucasarts simply want the game out by Christmas weither it was done or not. They didnt care about the quality of it as long as they got their christmas sales. See, to them it IS all about money.

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Because they need to pay their employees so thay can feed their families.
I think theyd feel better knowing they got money to feed their families in a honest way and not from some customer being cheated.

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If they don't want to, then they are deciding not to play the game. That's up to them. Expecting to be catered to is just being greedy.
Theyre the customers, they need to remember that. The company is there to cater to their needs and if some need a game on cd rom then the company should make some on both so those people who want a cd rom game can get one. Its only reasonable.

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If they can't spend $30 on a DVD drive, they can't afford the game anyway. Or they can buy the drive, then save their allowance to buy the game.
Maybe they can just afford one or the other. Its better to be able to get the game than have to buy a new gadget that you cant even use yet until you get the game.

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That's fine. But then they shouldn't be able to play the game.
Oh so you would want to deny a person being able to play a game unless they conform like everyone else? I like being able to chose to do things when im ready and not having somebody force me to do it. I thought thats what this country was about anyways was choice, I guess the game developers dont see it that way. Theyd rather make you conform or leave you out of the glory.

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But it is everything in business. The only thing. And that is what we are talking about here. Business.
Didnt used to be, sure they still cared about making money but not at the expense of the customer. They actually wanted to and sometimes HAD to care about the customer's feelings. Now alot of companies are so big and powerful they can afford to upset a few people because they know there are plenty other ones they can manipulate to get what they want.

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But the employees and developers need to get payed so that they can feed their families. That is why the games need to make money.
Maybe the people who make computer games just need to buy something they can throw in the microwave rather than going out to eat every night and then they wouldnt need to make so much on games. People these days just spend way too much money on alot of things they dont need and then they whine because they dont have enough money and they only have themselves to blame.

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They aren't. They aren't forcing you to buy anything. They are not harming you in any way.
If you want the game, they force you to buy whatever upgrade you need to run it. They practically make you feel guilty if you dont buy the game or the upgrade needed to play it. They do harm people just most are too stubborn or guilable to realize it.

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They legally have to. All companies have to. They go out of business/go to prison otherwise.
If I had to chose between cheating my customers/squeezing them dry of money or going to prison, heck id rather go to prison.

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I can't put food on the table and clothes on my daughter with dignity.
Depends on what you feed her and clothe her with. Sometimes doing the right/honest thing pays more in the end than doing the dishonest/greedy thing. Even if you cant feed or put clothes on her, at least you can teach her something and let her see how honest and good you are, that can be just as good as her having food and clothes sometimes.

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And the customers won't be happy, because they would get no more games.
Theyd just be happy they got the ones they do have and theyd just go somewhere else to get new games if they wanted any. Theres plenty of game companies around.

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You can always buy both. You can buy one and then save up for the other. Why do you have to get both at the same time? That's just greedy!
Why not just be able to buy the game and skip the upgrade until you really need it?
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Old 04-07-2006, 08:13 PM   #79
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Im sorry about this, I tried the edit post feature to try to seperate all of this but it didnt work even though in the preview it looked all seperated.
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Old 04-07-2006, 10:51 PM   #80
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I don't think you've read clearly. I have a 3 years old computer that can run most games. I have a good video card that will survive at least another year. How does that equate to companies "forcing" me into buying the latest hardware? How the hell do I play with this old computer? No, I don't have the latest hardware, don't have the money for. Whenever games come out, they don't require the latest hardware. No one company is stupid enough to do that. It's not like HL2 needed the latest Radeon card to run or else you won't play the game. That would cost you over $500.
They require decent hardware to run. That's why I can still run new games.
So yeah, if 2 years ago, you bought very outdated hardware and now you wonder why suddenly you need to upgrade, wake up.

Newer computers seem more fragile? Not as carefully built? I built my own tower with as much care as I ever did and I maintain it carefully too. I don't see how it has anything to do with the subject. If you somehow have an emotional connection with an old outdated sound card...

Also, you've never had a job obviously. All that you've said are idealistic mumbo jumbo that are far from the reality. Get a job, see if it's really as nice as you make it sound.

Now, it is not about a question of format, it's about you disliking capitalism and the idea of making money. You've also called us idiots for upgrading our hardware. Gullible for obeying the companies who want us to buy a new video card every year. But who does that except for the very rich folks? We buy a new video card every once in a while (usually over 2 years). Yes, that's a very short amount of time, I want the latest hardware!


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