lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Retreating. Waste of time?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 04-17-2006, 06:24 AM   #1
DarthMaulUK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Retreating. Waste of time?

Having stuck on Rebellion today and then playing EaW, I noticed the massive difference in retreating.

In Rebellion, your ships would get to the far end of the map and then retreat. Yes you might lose a couple of ships and it is a much slower process than EaW.

I am not a fan of how EaW treats retreating. Speeding the game up, and your ships just stop dead - just to be destroyed within seconds. I think it needs looking at, and maybe a better retreat system - like in Rebellion should be adopted. Much more realistic and more fun

DMUK
  you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 07:22 AM   #2
Orao
Junior Member
 
Orao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 266
I agree with you but they will not bother with that since all you have to do is to choose all units and send them to the far end before hitting retreat button.



EaW: Total Realism
mod....
TR mod team status: TR Advisor, programmer, map maker, Multimedia developer
Orao is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 07:29 AM   #3
DarthMaulUK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yeah i do that. But when it speeds up, its really daft as you sustain even more losses than you would normally. Gotta feel though for the Empire I guess if you have tarkin on board! haha

DMUK
  you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 07:52 AM   #4
Cheech Marin
Rookie
 
Cheech Marin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 181
Yeah, someone mind explaining to me why the game speeds up just because you're retreating?
Cheech Marin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 07:59 AM   #5
FuzzySmurf
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 98
so you can watch your ships blow up faster as they refuse to return fire... at least in rebellion they shot back while waiting for the hyperdrive...
FuzzySmurf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 10:58 AM   #6
wedge2211
Commander, Rogue Squadron
 
wedge2211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 2,320
Agreed, DMUK. Triggering a retreat ought to cause your ships to move back to their starting corner at normal speed, firing normally - though without player control - and they ought to hyperspace out individually as they reach the exit coordinates, not in a big mass such that the ships that arrive at the exit vector first get pummelled while they wait for the stragglers to catch up. I think that would make retreats more realistic: it would be disorganized, with every ship for itself, and you really don't know how long it will take or what you will come out with.

Ground retreats should cause all your units to move to the nearest friendly reinforcement point or structure, and as soon as all units are at such a location, transports should come down and get them. Not individually as in space, because it would be silly to send a transport into a losing firefight several times.

I'm gonna put this on my list of things to try when I can get ahold of the LUA scripts (and I finish writing my thesis).


wedge2211 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 11:56 AM   #7
Darth Andrew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Indiana, U.S.A
Posts: 943
I think it would be nice for the ability to retreat individual units. How many times did you want your beat-up Star Destroyer out of the fight so you could bring in a fresh one?
Darth Andrew is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 01:01 PM   #8
Lucho
Rookie
 
Lucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Andrew
I think it would be nice for the ability to retreat individual units. How many times did you want your beat-up Star Destroyer out of the fight so you could bring in a fresh one?
Absolutely. And you are not the only one who wants...
Lucho is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 01:52 PM   #9
Rebelknight
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 44
or I wish you could just make single ships retreat, If you have a ship thats beat to death, you get him to the back to the edge, he has a gun in the red and his engines are still good and all you can do is leaving him there. In the books and the movies, they would have jumped out of the fight?!>

Sorry, I din't see him post, I guess I should have kept reading, thats what I get for sleeping for an hour LOL


Courge and perserverance have a magical talisman before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.

Last edited by Rebelknight; 04-17-2006 at 01:53 PM. Reason: I missed something (blind)
Rebelknight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #10
popcorn2008
Little Green Friend
 
popcorn2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 1,239
Yeah I agree with you as well DMUK. What makes matters worse is when issuing a retreat, because the game speeds up all the enemy has to do is remove the engine hardpoint and you just lost an entire capital ship. It's quite horrible.

Something should be done, espicially if they are going to make a sequel/expansion.


> Lucas Forums Moderator
> Petroglyph Forums Moderator
> Unofficial Petroglyph Fan Forums Global Moderator
popcorn2008 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 09:24 PM   #11
Thrawn
Grand Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 4,658
As the Empire, I tend to move the big ships to the other side of the map from wherever the battle is. Then I use the fighters and the anti-fighter ships as a screen. I think that's the only thing you can do until somebody reforms the system.


"Politicians campaign in poetry and govern in prose."
ThRaWn90,RAL_Thrawn,HPGR_Thrawn, Rogue 6
Born And Bred In XWA Country
Thrawn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-17-2006, 11:05 PM   #12
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
^^^^

Assuming the enemy doesn't go for your capital ships.

It's quite restrictive. I'd rather be able to command some fighters are some ships to hold back the enemy rather then see all of my fleet get destroyed because they're sitting ducks.

Shooting back is not necessary. If my memory is correct, ships in the SW flight sims when trying to enter hyperspace did not fire back.

I'd be in favor of some sort of return to the hyperspace point like the old flight sims. Though that would also require the maps to be larger.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-18-2006, 03:56 AM   #13
DarthMaulUK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
In the time you have to retreat, you can take out the engines of alot of capitol ships within that time. Hard points are a good feature but within those 10 seconds, would you really be able to deal that much damage? I think not

DMUK
  you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-18-2006, 06:59 AM   #14
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheech Marin
Yeah, someone mind explaining to me why the game speeds up just because you're retreating?
Good question, and another one that goes nicely with this one, what do you need to change to make the game NOT speed up?
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-18-2006, 01:48 PM   #15
Commander Obi-Wan
Gold Standard
 
Commander Obi-Wan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,363
Current Game: BioShock 2
Forum Veteran 
When you retreat, you may lose a few ships, but it's better than losing all. I think the feature is helpful.


Commander Obi-Wan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-18-2006, 07:02 PM   #16
Darth Andrew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Indiana, U.S.A
Posts: 943
Of course it's helpful, but it's flawed at the same time. In a nutshell, it can be a lot better.
Darth Andrew is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-18-2006, 09:02 PM   #17
popcorn2008
Little Green Friend
 
popcorn2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 1,239
Yeah, sure it's better than losing all your ships but it is highly unrealistic for ships to sit around and get shot out.


> Lucas Forums Moderator
> Petroglyph Forums Moderator
> Unofficial Petroglyph Fan Forums Global Moderator
popcorn2008 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-19-2006, 04:51 AM   #18
†Saint_Killa†
Junior Member
 
†Saint_Killa†'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: At home listening to Slipknot...
Posts: 279
The retreat time should have been 5 seconds instead of 10.



"You cannot kill which you did not create."

-Duality
†Saint_Killa† is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-19-2006, 02:36 PM   #19
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Well, it would be nice if it allows individual retreat.
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-19-2006, 03:30 PM   #20
vader815
Rookie
 
vader815's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 158
How about we just wait for the expansion pack, surely they will allow you to tamper with the retreat settings then.


"Do what must be done, do not hasitate, show no mercy!" ~ Darth Sidious

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me." ~ Sith Code
vader815 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-19-2006, 09:01 PM   #21
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
^^^^^

That's something I really hate to hear.

Why would we have to wait for an expansion? If the players are unhappy with how retreating works, then the designers should look into it and perhaps release a patch if it really upsets the game balance and gameplay. An expansion is supposed to add new gameplay features, not fix what's wrong in a game. That's what patches are for.

But then, we are only like... ten people here? I don't think Petro/LA really cares that much about what 10 forum-lurkers have to say.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-19-2006, 10:39 PM   #22
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
Maybe so, but it all works on the formula of 'x amount of people speaking out = y amount of people annoyed, but not speaking out'.

In other words, there may very well be a large number of people irritated by retreating, but there is only ever a small fraction who actually publically complain about it.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 03:56 PM   #23
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Maybe so, but it all works on the formula of 'x amount of people speaking out = y amount of people annoyed, but not speaking out'.

In other words, there may very well be a large number of people irritated by retreating, but there is only ever a small fraction who actually publically complain about it.
Well, using your formula, that makes 20 people who are annoyed The sad thing? That could be the majority.

But I see your point. The fact remains that if retreating was done poorly, it should be fixed by a patch, not an expansion.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 05:19 PM   #24
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
Do you mean that in the sense of

complaints-20
copies sold-2
illegal downloads-14
still missing-4


Anyway, I don't think they'll fix it with a patch. Though they should
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 05:26 PM   #25
sithlord24
Rookie
 
sithlord24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 10
i never thought of this retreat issue before i read this post. it is something that should be adressed in a patch or something and fixing it only makes sense.

what are the chances of that happening? I'm not sure with the way certain other lucasarts games have been treated... cough... swg...cough


EaW: TR has SAVED EaW!
sithlord24 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 06:03 PM   #26
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithlord24
what are the chances of that happening?
Extremely slim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sithlord24
I'm not sure with the way certain other lucasarts games have been treated... cough... swg...cough
I don't know about SWG, but LA generally releases 2 or 3 patches from the game. They also tend to fix bugs rather than improve the game (and the current retreating system works; no real bugs in there). But since Petro seems to be more active than other developpers, everything is possible.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 06:42 PM   #27
popcorn2008
Little Green Friend
 
popcorn2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Posts: 1,239
Usually patches dont change a game just fix bugs. The exceptions are MMORPG games.

There's really no chance they would change the retreat settings in a patch, but it is an irritaiting system.


> Lucas Forums Moderator
> Petroglyph Forums Moderator
> Unofficial Petroglyph Fan Forums Global Moderator
popcorn2008 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 07:14 PM   #28
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorn2008
Usually patches dont change a game just fix bugs. The exceptions are MMORPG games.

There's really no chance they would change the retreat settings in a patch, but it is an irritaiting system.
WarCraft III patches gave new content (new maps, new neutral heroes). But then, WC3 is just a superior RTS

And what I said was : "They also tend to fix bugs rather than improve the game"

Changing the retreat timer to 5 secs (no individual units, but still) count as a balance change, which is quite frequent in RTS patches. Balance changes are improvements.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-20-2006, 11:01 PM   #29
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
Remember that LA released a big gameplay patch for 'Galactic Battlegrounds' - I think it was the Clone Campaigns patch 1.1 but I'm not sure. Point is, they've done it before with their previous RTS.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-22-2006, 01:57 PM   #30
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Windu
Remember that LA released a big gameplay patch for 'Galactic Battlegrounds' - I think it was the Clone Campaigns patch 1.1 but I'm not sure. Point is, they've done it before with their previous RTS.
You mean that thing ?

They only changed a couple of numbers... And it's the only patch for SWGB... No particularly impressive.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-22-2006, 10:02 PM   #31
Thrawn
Grand Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 4,658
We're not talking about changing stats or balancing the factions, this would be an all out change to the core of the game mechanics. That's usually not something developers address in a patch, but reform in an expansion or sequel.


"Politicians campaign in poetry and govern in prose."
ThRaWn90,RAL_Thrawn,HPGR_Thrawn, Rogue 6
Born And Bred In XWA Country
Thrawn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-23-2006, 11:16 AM   #32
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn
We're not talking about changing stats or balancing the factions, this would be an all out change to the core of the game mechanics. That's usually not something developers address in a patch, but reform in an expansion or sequel.
Balancing sides does not affect the core of the game at all. Balancing is exactly what LA did with the CC patch I posted earlier : change numbers. Make that unit more powerful, nerf the other one. But then, the AoK engine is so old and rubbish (IMO) that making a 5% bonus a 10% instead doesn't do a lot.

Patches have two purposes : correct bugs and balance gameplay. Expansions have one purpose : add new content.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-24-2006, 08:38 PM   #33
Darth_Torpid-PG
Rookie
 
Darth_Torpid-PG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 233
Actually I find this annoying too. I'll see if I can't convince someone to get a fix for the retreat time and speed-up into the next patch (or the one after since it might be too late now). The retreat time and speedup should be relatively easy to change. Retreating one unit/squad at a time, however, is a new system and therefore something for a later product.


-Darth Torpid
-Game Designer
-Petroglyph
Darth_Torpid-PG is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 05:46 PM   #34
dorkthehunter
Lurker
 
dorkthehunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8
Or at least make it so that you can move while retreating.


Protecting the world from people with an IQ over 30!!! Huzzah!!!
dorkthehunter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-25-2006, 09:16 PM   #35
wedge2211
Commander, Rogue Squadron
 
wedge2211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 2,320
Hey Darth, good to see you.

Would altering the retreat so that, when triggered, all ships move back to the hyper point and leave at their own pace be considered expansion-fodder or could that be considered in a patch? In other words, would a patch only alter countdown values or would you be thinking about ways to make the retreat system better? I know that idea is my own pet idea (and definitely one I will try to mod when I can get my hands on LUA stuff), but I'm curious if we'll see different behavior in retreats or the same behvaior just accelerated.


wedge2211 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 12:35 PM   #36
Darth_Torpid-PG
Rookie
 
Darth_Torpid-PG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 233
I'm not really sure yet to be honest. It looks like it's too late to get into the upcoming patch. It'll take some discussion with the lead designer and programmer before I can know what's possible to change. I just know that I want to change something


-Darth Torpid
-Game Designer
-Petroglyph
Darth_Torpid-PG is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 02:38 PM   #37
Foshjedi2004
Junior Member
 
Foshjedi2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buckinghamshire, England
Posts: 478
If you want Torpid you can work on Legacy of War in your Free time... That will enable you to change things...



My Personal Opinions are not Endorsed by Any Websites, persons or places.
Check out my Gallery
[/color]
Foshjedi2004 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 04:34 PM   #38
Darth_Torpid-PG
Rookie
 
Darth_Torpid-PG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 233
Free time? What's that?


-Darth Torpid
-Game Designer
-Petroglyph
Darth_Torpid-PG is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2006, 05:31 PM   #39
Foshjedi2004
Junior Member
 
Foshjedi2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buckinghamshire, England
Posts: 478
Dunno....With 3 Sites to Run i Dunno where all my time goes sometimes.



My Personal Opinions are not Endorsed by Any Websites, persons or places.
Check out my Gallery
[/color]
Foshjedi2004 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-28-2006, 10:38 PM   #40
Thrawn
Grand Admiral
 
Thrawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 4,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge2211
Hey Darth, good to see you.

Would altering the retreat so that, when triggered, all ships move back to the hyper point and leave at their own pace be considered expansion-fodder or could that be considered in a patch?
I really like this idea. Having each ship move back to the point it entered the map on is an awesome idea. Also sort of realistic in the star wars universe, as the ships would be getting far enough away from the planet's gravity well.


"Politicians campaign in poetry and govern in prose."
ThRaWn90,RAL_Thrawn,HPGR_Thrawn, Rogue 6
Born And Bred In XWA Country
Thrawn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Empire At War > EaW General Discussion > Galactic Discussion > Retreating. Waste of time?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.