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Old 04-17-2006, 10:47 PM   #1
Darth Plagus
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"depends on your defintion of shortly?"

Hey, just need to vent for a few minutes...

Im really starting to get worried that the mod tools will not be released during my life time. Did the developers take Clinton's loophole of depends what your definition of the word is, is?

To me, shortly after the game is in stores means a week or two, at the very longest a month...you would think that given the game was already pushed back on its release that the people over at petro would have had someone working on the map/scenario editor well in advance to game release...could "shortly" really mean 3 months and counting?

I understand all too well the difficulties involved in creating games, etc. but i mean come on! in 3 months you could create a completely new game...we are talking about an editor here. It wouldnt be bothering me so much if they had said, "we are not planning on releasing a map editor" and then BAM they slap one on us, that would be a surprise! and treated with much joy...but this "we have no comment on that at this time" thing is really starting to bug me...THE biggest reason i bought the game was b/c of the possibilities with the mod tools....


I dont mean to offend anyone, or annoy anyone, like i said just venting...feel free to pull this from the boards.

Plagus out.
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:59 PM   #2
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Yeah, this ain't your blog or something...I'm giving it a chance since it can spark some kind of discussion. Avoid rant threads from now on.


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Old 04-17-2006, 11:02 PM   #3
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Well patience... it took Lucas Arts and Pandemic around 3 and a half months to release Battlefront II mod tools as well.

You have to understand they are trying to work all the bugs out of the software as once it's out they arent going to have official tech support for them like they do the actual game. They also have to add many things to the editor in order for us to use it and for it to make more sense.

We all want the mod tools but right now the best thing to do is wait patiently. We all knew the mod tools would take time to release so we just have to deal with it. It will be all the better when they are released and you can think Im sure glad I waited for them.


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Old 04-17-2006, 11:07 PM   #4
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It's somewhat of a vicious circle though. As the delay grows longer, more gamers leave the game, less incentive for the developers to make a patch or release anything.

It's quite unfortunate.


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Old 04-18-2006, 03:53 AM   #5
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The tools are coming. Theres no eta but im guessing the end of this month. Both Lucasarts and Petroglyph are extremely busy working on E3, which is a major conference for both. Lucasarts are showing off this and next years games whilst Petroglyph will be there showing off some work and also looking for work - being a developer, they have to keep looking for publishers.

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Old 04-18-2006, 12:59 PM   #6
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yeah, E3 is their no 1 at the moment, and then i think it's going to be about 1 month after E3 the mod tools will be out.
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Old 04-18-2006, 04:32 PM   #7
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Lets not forget that LA had announced a demo for Battlefront 1. The said demo obviously never came out. ( the dead horse!)

I know this has absolutely nothing to do with EaW, but remember that, unless I am mistaking, neither LA or Petro ever *promised* that they would release modding tools. As with any kind of "announced" online content, they can choose to pull the plug anytime they want should they see fit.

I know, I'm a bit pessimistic. Someone has to be though.

And Luke, I just realized you were a mod now. Congrats


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Old 04-18-2006, 06:51 PM   #8
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If they release the mod tools before they are really ready, everyone will be even more upset than they are about any delay. I think they learned a lesson from the release of EaW before it was really ready. They probably could have sold more copies if they fixed more bugs before the release. I'm glad they are taking the time to get the mod tools working right before releasing them, rather than just dump some junk on us.


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Old 04-19-2006, 04:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gswift
If they release the mod tools before they are really ready, everyone will be even more upset than they are about any delay. I think they learned a lesson from the release of EaW before it was really ready. They probably could have sold more copies if they fixed more bugs before the release. I'm glad they are taking the time to get the mod tools working right before releasing them, rather than just dump some junk on us.
er...yeah... LucasArts has been around for >15 years. Petroglyph is made up of ex-EA/ex-Westwood employees with similar experience levels (C&C was 1995 right?) - so you think they learned something about releasing a product before it was ready, and that nobody involved had ever made a mistake like that before or wasn't aware of the consequences in doing so? uh huh...

I'm not covering anything they don't know already - they're well aware that what they do has an impact on the size of their customer base. Whether they release mod tools at this point will allow them to regain some popularity with the users they already have. After the brash of support problems and the bad memories surrounding the marketing/handling of their first petroglyh product here, I doubt any mod tool release will draw in new customers or grow this product. An expansion that can be sold with fixes and mod tools included might do the trick, but a free download mod tool release wouldn't be worth much effort IMO, which is most probably why it is delayed. As had been stated above, E3 and their next product is taking the priority seat, as it should.
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Old 04-19-2006, 04:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destruk
er...yeah... LucasArts has been around for >15 years. Petroglyph is made up of ex-EA/ex-Westwood employees with similar experience levels (C&C was 1995 right?) - so you think they learned something about releasing a product before it was ready, and that nobody involved had ever made a mistake like that before or wasn't aware of the consequences in doing so? uh huh...
Ummm.... that was old tecnology and may be more simple. But EaW is advanced already and a bit more complicated so it will take time to finish the game and mod tools.



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Old 04-19-2006, 04:56 AM   #11
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Old technology? Releasing a product that works, the first time, without needing to release 2 updates in the first week to correct mistakes that were missed by beta testing/QA? The actual release process has been unchanged. Perhaps what you mean to refer to, is that it's an 'entirely' new engine with the same pathing problems and gameplay logic errors. And nobody knows what the mod tool package will encompass. If they're going all out allowing for custom ship types, complete stat editing, map editing, AI tactics editing, then sure, it will take a lot of time. For now I think we'd be happy with a standard map editor using existing skins and a text editor to modify existing units, which wouldn't take 3 months to kick out to the public. But we'll see when/if there is one to begin with.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth54
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with EaW, but remember that, unless I am mistaking, neither LA or Petro ever *promised* that they would release modding tools. As with any kind of "announced" online content, they can choose to pull the plug anytime they want should they see fit.
Well they have promised a map editor, but they never have promised quote on quote "mod tools".


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Old 04-19-2006, 05:07 PM   #13
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Well I have no hard feelings for posting an Excerpt from an Email Mike Legg Sent Me about 2 weeks ago:

"..the mod tools are going to be released before E3"



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Old 04-19-2006, 06:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foshjedi2004
Well I have no hard feelings for posting an Excerpt from an Email Mike Legg Sent Me about 2 weeks ago:

"..the mod tools are going to be released before E3"
And so the countdown begins.

~21 days left.

I say the chances are pretty good.


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Old 04-19-2006, 10:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foshjedi2004
Well I have no hard feelings for posting an Excerpt from an Email Mike Legg Sent Me about 2 weeks ago:

"..the mod tools are going to be released before E3"
Did he say which year's E3?


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Old 04-20-2006, 06:43 AM   #16
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LUA Editor please. And the Map editor would be nice too.

Else, the game is getting stale without new fan made content.

Most great games have this stuff, fan made stuff and tons of replay value and adds to the fan base by keeping it alive. (Civ4, Oblivion, etc).

It adds to game sales since the most popular games have full SDK did you notice?

Good Mods = More fun = More Hype + SALES = PROFITSSS!
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slocket
LUA Editor please. And the Map editor would be nice too.

Else, the game is getting stale without new fan made content.

Most great games have this stuff, fan made stuff and tons of replay value and adds to the fan base by keeping it alive. (Civ4, Oblivion, etc).

It adds to game sales since the most popular games have full SDK did you notice?

Good Mods = More fun = More Hype + SALES = PROFITSSS!
Yes, but releasing mod tools takes time. Greedy LA doesn't like it when things take time to be released. Instead, they prefer to make a "new" game that you will pay full price (Battlefront II, anyone?).


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Old 04-20-2006, 11:04 PM   #18
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I would pay for a nice expansion with improvement and added gameplay such as diplomacy and maintenance (stuff cutout due to time -what Kufloaden). And if it would include the full editor tools as said above as promised way back when.

Most games longevity depends upon new content to keep the community alive.

And we know how greedy they are...Dark Horse Comic books comes to mind..original idea, yeh that was the original source material back in the 70's.

Similiar to Bill Gates hatchet job to stick us with HIS god ownership of OS. When Vista comes out and DX10 you may as well throw away all your favorite 'legacy' games. Be lucky to find the hardware to even run it. lol
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Old 04-21-2006, 11:22 AM   #19
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i would expect a map editor sometime soon
but as to a mod tools, if i can take a moment to be hypothetical
if they "are" making an expansion pack, they woudnt want to release tools so that people could make mods that could fill the expansions place

just a thought
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:38 PM   #20
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^^^^
its never stopped devs before.


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Old 04-21-2006, 12:56 PM   #21
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true
but but theres only so many ways you can go at the moment
people want a clone wars/return of the jedi/new republic expansions, theres a mod coming out for each, and if this game is going to be as moddable as they say it is, then there would be no point releasing an expansion pack, the only thing that would be unique is the campaign sounds/voices etc, as the rest you could do with mods
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:19 PM   #22
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That will be why these next few weeks are crucial for Petroglyph...Deliver the Mod tools or an Xpack that expands across all these gaps with a game we Want to have...

OR:

The Modders will just close down the large mods and move along to other games...the ultimate Sting in the tail would be IA2 moving to CNC3...



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Old 04-21-2006, 01:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foshjedi2004
That will be why these next few weeks are crucial for Petroglyph...Deliver the Mod tools or an Xpack that expands across all these gaps with a game we Want to have...

OR:

The Modders will just close down the large mods and move along to other games...the ultimate Sting in the tail would be IA2 moving to CNC3...
If the bigger mods move to CnC3 it would be a disapointment, seeing as it wont be released until 2007 (most likely late 2007). Not to mention that it's still using the same engine from Generals. Though it's supposed to be "better and improved" version, I seriously doubt that it will be that big of an improvment, maybe in graphics and AI but not much else. Besides CnC3 wont have as much continuality as EaW does. For example, if it follows in the paths of all other CnC games then it wont have anything similar to a "Battle map" (galatic map) meaning when you build one base, in the next mission you move foward and all those other units are scrapped and done for. But in EaW you have a galaxy to control and units matter a lot more because losing one effects your fleet and the continuality. Whew... does that make sense?

Devs should learn that Mod tools are just as big as the game itself now a days. They should learn to release games with mod tools already in them, instead of rushing them out and releasing tools later. Or at least include a map editor with the game. Many devs have learned this lesson, while others still need to.


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Old 04-21-2006, 02:29 PM   #24
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Devs should learn that Mod tools are just as big as the game itself now a days. They should learn to release games with mod tools already in them, instead of rushing them out and releasing tools later. Or at least include a map editor with the game. Many devs have learned this lesson, while others still need to.
Small dev team of Act of War did this. They released mod tools with second patch.



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Old 04-21-2006, 02:47 PM   #25
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popcorn you have to realise that the transition from Generals Zero Hour IA to a CNC3 IA2 won't be that difficult to accomplish



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Old 04-21-2006, 04:21 PM   #26
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They won't cancel an expansion pack because a mod fills the same time period. Mods are unprofessionally developed (though some make for very professional presentations, those are in the minority) and typically involve alteration of existing content and features and the addition of new artwork. An expansion pack would have the advantage of being "official," would include professional artwork, voice acting, scripting, etc, and would include entirely new game elements and features.


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Old 04-22-2006, 01:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
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An expansion pack would have the advantage of being "official," would include professional artwork, voice acting, scripting, etc, and would include entirely new game elements and features.
True. These are the biggest advantages expansions have over mods. Even high quality mods that are technically better than official content look shallow without appropriate voice acting (something I have yet to see modders do) and new, unique features.

Anyway, no developper/publisher in their right minds would skip an expansion release (read : an income) because some over-excited fans are messing around with an editor. What is to understand here is that LA and Petro are in this for the money.


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Old 04-22-2006, 03:51 PM   #28
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EAW does have the huge advantage of having a (relative) small usage of Star Wars units, and therefor giving several possibilitis for X-packs.


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Old 04-23-2006, 11:12 AM   #29
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EAW does have the huge advantage of having a (relative) small usage of Star Wars units, and therefor giving several possibilitis for X-packs.
That game was designed with an expansion in mind. The time setting just demands it. It's right between the two trilogies. Yet, no units from the later OT or PT. It would be extremely easy to add a "ESB/RotS" expansion, or even an Episode 3 expansion.

While an OT expansion is more likely, I can't believe LA would pass on RotS. SWGB had CC for AotC, and it would just make sense for LA to use RotS for an expansion.


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Old 04-24-2006, 08:28 PM   #30
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Sorry I've not stopped in for a while, but E3 has us hopping, not to mention working on the project we will be showing there.

The map editor is in QA now. We will likely release an update/balance patch very soon, followed closely after by the editor. There's still some documentation to write up to support the editor while it is in QA, and I've been working on a doc to explain the XML story scripting system (it's a bit strange, and I'm the only one that seems to understand it fully ) I've been told it should be out before E3, but as always I will refrain from giving an exact date because it's out of my hands.

I will also offer this bit to chew on...some of you want us to go forward in time for an expansion, some of you want to go backwards. What if we went sideways? That is, of course, assuming that we actually were working on an expansion.


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Old 04-25-2006, 08:05 AM   #31
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completly new content and storys is better then nothing, ill go for it
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:11 PM   #32
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Go sideways! and do forward and backward at the same time
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Torpid-PG
Sorry I've not stopped in for a while, but E3 has us hopping, not to mention working on the project we will be showing there.

The map editor is in QA now. We will likely release an update/balance patch very soon, followed closely after by the editor. There's still some documentation to write up to support the editor while it is in QA, and I've been working on a doc to explain the XML story scripting system (it's a bit strange, and I'm the only one that seems to understand it fully ) I've been told it should be out before E3, but as always I will refrain from giving an exact date because it's out of my hands.

I will also offer this bit to chew on...some of you want us to go forward in time for an expansion, some of you want to go backwards. What if we went sideways? That is, of course, assuming that we actually were working on an expansion.
now that is some welcome news. thanks for the heads up.


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Old 04-25-2006, 04:13 PM   #34
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Sideways...So We will see Zaarin and Parts of Shadows of the Empire, Xwing and TIE Fighter Sims???



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Old 04-26-2006, 08:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foshjedi2004
Sideways...So We will see Zaarin and Parts of Shadows of the Empire, Xwing and TIE Fighter Sims???
^^That would be nice.

But I seriously don't see how they could muster enough content for an expansion that doesn't go to either RotJ or RotS.


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Old 04-30-2006, 04:30 PM   #36
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sideways... = adding a couple new units, a few new maps and unit balancing? like alot of the other expansions out there. Personally I want to see the clone wars... but sideways that kind of scary if you ask me. there just adding more to the current timeline the game supports.

$29.99 for:
Tie Intercepter
B-Wing
2 new Skirmish maps
2 new Multiplayer maps
and
a new galactic map called Galactic Domination

So if they are going sideways then this would mean Empire At War 2: The Clone Wars, then Empire At War 3: (something after Ep6) then Empire At War 4: The Sith Wars(think KOTOR)
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Old 04-30-2006, 09:22 PM   #37
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Sideways and little later tech from Return of the Jedi would be fantastic! There are things we really would like such as the B-Wing, Tie Interceptors, Tie Experimentals etc etc. If you included all the ships from Star Wars X-Wing Alliance - I think 99% of us would be thrilled.

Also nice would be a "true realism" mode that we could "tick" for campaign play - something that allows us to play exactly as the Star Wars Universe shows (forgoing rock-paper-scissors balancing). An ability to chose exactly what goes into battle instead of the current "balance" system...

You could then leave Clone Wars for expansion 2, and super-future Star Wars for expansion 3.
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Old 05-01-2006, 01:08 AM   #38
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for me sideways suggests that perhaps the next project wont be an expansion after all, but possibly a sequel.
Damn ambiguous comment, its open to a lot of interpretation
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Torpid-PG
Sorry I've not stopped in for a while, but E3 has us hopping, not to mention working on the project we will be showing there.

The map editor is in QA now. We will likely release an update/balance patch very soon, followed closely after by the editor. There's still some documentation to write up to support the editor while it is in QA, and I've been working on a doc to explain the XML story scripting system (it's a bit strange, and I'm the only one that seems to understand it fully ) I've been told it should be out before E3, but as always I will refrain from giving an exact date because it's out of my hands.

I will also offer this bit to chew on...some of you want us to go forward in time for an expansion, some of you want to go backwards. What if we went sideways? That is, of course, assuming that we actually were working on an expansion.
I'm sorry but an expansion in my mind is just another way for lucasarts to extract money from another source.
Give out the mod tools and let other people deal with things like expanisions without being the capitalistic, money-loving people we all know and love at lucas arts
You're love of money forces you to bring out products that are unsatisfactory to the market.
If you had done the job right the first time, i see no reason for an official expansion.
Good luck on getting people to buy it
There are a billion other mods for people to try instead of your "official" crap.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:54 AM   #40
merlin01ca
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Seems as if the people on this forum pay for crap
alright guys go ahead.
Waste your money, while im getting free mods from the modding community that look MUCH better than anything official i have seen in years.
Lucas arts is failing and dying due to its greed.
HA.
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