lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The Expert Forum
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-09-2006, 02:00 PM   #41
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
I do know that helium registers on a radar screen, which is why I called it metallic. I know this because when I was in the Coast Guard way back when, we had to launch an average of five balloons a day to take weather readings. The package was about the size of a sandwich, and when I asked a radar operator why we had such a clear return off such a small object, that was the answer he gave me.
I asked a friend of mine in the USAF about this, figuring he might have an answer, but in the meantime while waiting for an answer I found this link. The radiosonde has a transmitter which may help with the return.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gyx/weather_balloons.htm

I haven't found out if helium makes an infrared return yet (which might be an alternate explanation). I just know that since He is not metallic, that it can't be for that reason.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 04:17 PM   #42
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I asked a friend of mine in the USAF about this, figuring he might have an answer, but in the meantime while waiting for an answer I found this link. The radiosonde has a transmitter which may help with the return.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gyx/weather_balloons.htm

I haven't found out if helium makes an infrared return yet (which might be an alternate explanation). I just know that since He is not metallic, that it can't be for that reason.
I knew the Radarman pretty well, and both of us had taken into account the radio transponder. I would like to hear what you're friend said. After all I'm talking over 30 years ago.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2006, 07:44 PM   #43
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Sable Phoenix posted this link about lightsabres over at the kotorfanmedia boards, and the science was so interesting I thought I'd post it here for you all (with kudos to Sable Phoenix for finding and posting it there).
The upstart of a large chunk of it is that 'lightsabres are not made up of just light'. It includes analysis and fighting techniques.
Of course, it's going to take me forever to convert from writing 'lightsaber' to 'lightsabre'.

Lightsabres


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2006, 10:32 AM   #44
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
I knew the Radarman pretty well, and both of us had taken into account the radio transponder. I would like to hear what you're friend said. After all I'm talking over 30 years ago.
My friend got back to me this am. Background on him--he's a flight surgeon in the USAF and is currently assigned to NASA's astronaut program, so I know he has a serious Clue on a lot of things (or can find the answers if he doesn't know).
He said the balloons were radar reflective because the balloon material itself was metallized, not because of the He. He said he didn't know by what process the balloons were metallized, however, because he didn't think they had Mylar til after WWII.
I learn something new every day.
I'm totally speculating on this part here, so take this with a grain of salt, but my guess would be that if the balloons were metallized, they incorporated metal in some format while the latex was still liquid (as opposed to attaching it somehow later after the balloon was formed).
I did read that they also sometimes had metal streamers attached to increase the radar signature.
Your trivia for the day.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 12:38 PM   #45
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
To Melee or not to melee;

The Soldier drew his melee weapon-

Now wait just a minute? Melee is a type of fight, not a weapon! A melee is where it's up close and personal as war was long before the invention of the bow or gun.

Melee weapons are broken into two broad categories, blunt and edged. A club is a melee weapon, as is a knife, but one does damage by cutting and stabbing, the other by blunt force trauma. You can get killed just as readily when the man has a quarterstaff instead of a lightsaber, but you're still dead.

We could go on in the descriptions, thrusting or slashing, serrated or razor sharp. fluid like a whip or heavy like a mace but you should have the picture now. I have a book entitled Weapons by the Diagram Group and they had 37 different varieties and styles of blunt weapons and two or three hundred different stabbing, cutting, and slashing weapons.

So whether it's a character in a story, or an RPG, look at what your person is carrying.
Is it a knife? Sword? stun baton? Whatever it is, describe it. If they have to use it, have them use that not their 'melee' weapon.

As an example, I had a character who was an assassin in a comedy story I was writing. She carried two curved double edged sickle swords (Sharply curved) a pair of brass knuckles a garrote and a ninja hand bow (A slingshot arrangement that fires short crossbow bolts).


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 12:53 PM   #46
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
The Republic military: An overview.

As much as we constantly talk of the Republic's military, the military we are using is actually an alliance. Each of the planets that have militaries and militias would have their own uniforms, ranks, weapons and tactics. The German Army of Today still wears their own uniforms when on NATO duty, and fields their own Armored vehicles artillery, and infantry weapons.

The Republic in other words, is NATO writ large.

This doesn't mean there's a lot of confusion. NATO drills constantly, and they have become a cohesive force by learning the strengths and weaknesses of each ally. They have created a playbook if you will of how something can be done, and how others do it.

This has caused changes even in the way every army uses their troops. The French Division shrank because the German divisional formation is more efficient, even though it has about two third of the men. The Americans developed the modern Armored Cavalry Regiment (Which is a Brigade in size) by seeing what the Israelis do with the largest standard formation, the Brigade.

What the Republic has that NATO does not, is a combined Staff and Tactical college that every officer proably goes to.

The only time I could see them being a combined unit was during the clone wars and Empire. Everything standardized right down to the weapons the troops carry.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 01:09 PM   #47
stingerhs
Follow the Wolves
 
stingerhs's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: between my ears
Posts: 4,641
Current Game: Dead Space
Forum Veteran Roleplayer LFN Staff Member Helpful! 
^^^^
i think the biggest difference there, though, would be that a lot systems didn't field much more than a security force, much like Naboo in Ep. I. although some systems might have been willing to run war games and other forms of training involving larger militaries, i think its quite apparent that the Repbublic wasn't unified enough to field a military that could challenge the Seperatists. otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need for the Clone Army in the first place.

its been my understanding of the Clone Wars that the systems and organizations that had a military or a method to quickly produce a military joined the Seperatists which is one reason why things would've been so hopeless for many of the Republic Systems during the escalation that led to the Clone Wars. in my 'Betrayal and Retribution' series, a major part of the story involves those same reasonings which is based on a lot of research into various EU and Official databases on the Star Wars Universe.


See the struggle of the faithless lot as they negate their time
How low to sink to the depths of their frame of mind

stingerhs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 02:10 PM   #48
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
^^^^
i think the biggest difference there, though, would be that a lot systems didn't field much more than a security force, much like Naboo in Ep. I. although some systems might have been willing to run war games and other forms of training involving larger militaries, i think its quite apparent that the Repbublic wasn't unified enough to field a military that could challenge the Seperatists. otherwise, there wouldn't have been a need for the Clone Army in the first place.
That is why I added Militias to the commentary, stingerhs. Before the 1780s the US didn't have a standing army per se Each campaign was dempendant on militas. Once the war was over they couldn't disband the 'Fedeal' army fast enough. The Federal government had to call up militias, which is where the 2nd Amendment came from. Madison (Author of the amendment) commented in the Federalist papers that 'what chance would an oppressive Federal government have if their army is faced by armed militianmen of equal caliber?'.

The Military of Naboo is by my definition a Militia rather than an army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
its been my understanding of the Clone Wars that the systems and organizations that had a military or a method to quickly produce a military joined the Seperatists which is one reason why things would've been so hopeless for many of the Republic Systems during the escalation that led to the Clone Wars. in my 'Betrayal and Retribution' series, a major part of the story involves those same reasonings which is based on a lot of research into various EU and Official databases on the Star Wars Universe.
I think in actuality that it was the ones who have a hive or socialist leaning society that were the backbone of the Separatists, not merely the ability to raise and supply an army but the willingness to use that army to support the political and economic aims of their society. Otherwise the Separatists would have won at the outset.

I am looking at it not as a social scientist but as a military man. Each of the societies represented at Geonosis were not militant, rather they were socialist or aquisitive, extending their society/attitudes onto the Republic as a whole. That is the problem with an alliance based primarily on trade, you assume your well being as a supplier/industrialist is more important than the wellbeing of the being who works in your factories.

That is why the original Confederation that the Bill or Rights fostered collapsed to become the Republic that the Constitution supports.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 03:39 PM   #49
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I also had the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the Republic could have put together an army long before the Clone wars had started if the Senate had not been bogged down in debate.
I.e. they were trying to decide if the Trade federation was really a threat, and if so if it could be dealt with diplomatically, but few of them ever got around to thinking of getting any kind of military force together to deal with it. I got the idea that it was sort of like Europe sitting on its hands in the late 30's/early 40's trying appeasement rather than building an army while Hitler amassed a large and well trained force in plain sight.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-16-2006, 10:28 PM   #50
stingerhs
Follow the Wolves
 
stingerhs's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: between my ears
Posts: 4,641
Current Game: Dead Space
Forum Veteran Roleplayer LFN Staff Member Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
I think in actuality that it was the ones who have a hive or socialist leaning society that were the backbone of the Separatists, not merely the ability to raise and supply an army but the willingness to use that army to support the political and economic aims of their society. Otherwise the Separatists would have won at the outset.
no, the Seperatists were not socialists. just look at who provided the backbone of the Seperatist Army: the Trade Federation, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, the Techno Union, and the Corporate Alliance. these are huge businesses that want to control the galaxy without government interferance. that is the reason for the Trade Federation attacking Naboo in the first movie, and it is the same reason why they all join the Seperatists: the promise from Count Dooku of a pure capitalistic economy where they would be the sole competitors. these are not corporations looking for a strong central government (ie, a socialist government), they are corporations looking for a government that will leave them alone to do their business without interference.

edit: okay, i've been doing some outlining for my story, and i was wondering if anyone knows what the Jedi Trials consisted of. my guess is that they would've had a test of Wisdom, a test of one's connection to the Force, and a test of Lightsaber skills. does anybody else have any ideas??


See the struggle of the faithless lot as they negate their time
How low to sink to the depths of their frame of mind


Last edited by stingerhs; 05-17-2006 at 12:21 AM.
stingerhs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-17-2006, 02:22 AM   #51
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I also had the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the Republic could have put together an army long before the Clone wars had started if the Senate had not been bogged down in debate.
I.e. they were trying to decide if the Trade federation was really a threat, and if so if it could be dealt with diplomatically, but few of them ever got around to thinking of getting any kind of military force together to deal with it. I got the idea that it was sort of like Europe sitting on its hands in the late 30's/early 40's trying appeasement rather than building an army while Hitler amassed a large and well trained force in plain sight.
Their biggest problem was more likely the situation when the Federal Government wanted to have a standing army in the late 1780s. An army can always be used against it's own people. If you figure each planet has it's own navy and army, then the Republic wanted to turn all of those troops over to a leader appointed by the Chancellor or his war council. It's like trying to start an alliance with the war barreling down on you.

As for the WWII Analogy, did you notice that Palpatine used exactly the same ploy as Hitler did, the need for 'emergency powers' for an emergency that won't end.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-17-2006, 09:36 AM   #52
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
^
Oh yeah, noticed that Lucas used that. And why not? If it was successful for Hitler, it would work (and did work) in the movie. I wonder how much of his association with Spielberg influences that.

@stingerhs--I'm only opining, since this isn't based on anything I've seen in the books/movies (except for the saber-building).
It seems to me that building your own lightsaber is part of the trials or at least part of becoming a full-fledged Jedi (Vader's comments in RoTJ about Luke building his as well as KOTOR). Your list works for me. I imagine that the trials would have to be individualized to some degree because everyone's strengths are different, but I also think there's some minimum bar of skill in all the areas you list that one would have to reach in order to pass. That bar might also float depending on that Jedi's 'specialty'--a lightsaber specialist might have to show more lightsaber skill to pass the trials than someone who specializes in diplomacy or strategy/tactics, but that's just guessing.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-18-2006, 10:42 AM   #53
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Jae, for something I'm working on that won't be put here:

Would someone who claims to see fairies and refuses to accept that they are fictional be defined as fixated or delusional by the shrink?


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-18-2006, 12:57 PM   #54
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
Jae, for something I'm working on that won't be put here:

Would someone who claims to see fairies and refuses to accept that they are fictional be defined as fixated or delusional by the shrink?
Actually, if you want to be anally precise, it's neither--he's (or she's) having a visual hallucination. A hallucination is a distortion in sensory perception (usually auditory--'hearing voices'), while a delusion is a distortion in reasoning. A fixation means someone is stuck in a pattern of thought or activity, like having to wash their hands 18 times in a row or turning a lightswitch on and off 3 times in a row before leaving it on. He might be fixated (or stuck) on the idea that he can see fairies, but the actual seeing of fairies themselves is a visual hallucination. Thinking that everyone is watching him would be a delusion.
If I could only choose between fixated or delusional, however, delusional is closer than fixated.

The shrink would probably diagnose him as having some type of schizophrenia (paranoid, undifferentiated, etc, depending on any other symptoms).
www.schizophrenia.com has some great info.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-18-2006, 02:54 PM   #55
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Thanks. I'm working on a story with the idea that Fairies are an actual offshoot of humanity that went down in size rather than larger, and have a native form of magic so only a very small percentage would be able to actually preceive as what they really are. The rest of us would only see some kid of 'bug' we can't identify.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-18-2006, 03:12 PM   #56
DarthSaboteur
Rookie
 
DarthSaboteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 63
@ stingerhs, Jae Onasi: Actually, the Jedi Trials consisted of trials of skill(i.e: fighting dark side apparitions), flesh(i.e: overcoming physical pain and loss), courage(i.e: completing missions with very low chances of success), and spirit(i.e: Luke not turning to the dark side on the Death Star 2).
DarthSaboteur is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2006, 12:56 AM   #57
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Well, I asked my hubby today, who is in the Army reserve, "Honey, about how long do you think it would take to write a debriefing on a ship explosion?"
His reply: "I don't know dear, I've never experienced a ship explosion."
We'd been travelling in a car for about 8 hours to get to family by the time I'd asked that and I was/am seriously overtired. When he gave the perfectly deadpan answer, I about fell out of my seat laughing.
So much for his expertise.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2006, 09:36 AM   #58
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Define the parameters. Are you talking about the debrieifing of one survivor or witness? The actual report that will go to the Court of Inquiry? or the final ruling by that court?
As an example the witness reports of the destruction of USS Maine were filed in the first 30 days after the explosion, but the report delivered to the court took almost 8 months, and the court itself didn't file it's report for over two years.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 06-13-2006 at 09:38 AM. Reason: typo
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2006, 10:47 AM   #59
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I was thinking "what happened in the 9 minutes you were infiltrating the enemy ship before you found the explosive device and got the h*ll out of there." It was a very short mission.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2006, 12:14 PM   #60
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I was thinking "what happened in the 9 minutes you were infiltrating the enemy ship before you found the explosive device and got the h*ll out of there." It was a very short mission.

All right, we're having a terminology problem. It is what is called an after action report. The standard is to have an intelligence officer walk you thorugh what you did, someone else doing the same for every member of your party. They question you until they are satisfied. All these reports are then collated, and assembled into a coherent mass.

In the book Once a Hero, Elizabeth Moon went through it quite extensively. When the person had said something specific, and it couldn't be verified, they went over it again. Such as 'if you were on the bridge resetting the codeword for missile access at this time, how could you be here on your ship five minutes later, when it is impossible to walk that distance in time'.

This process take a hell of a long time. As I mentioned above, the Maine Incident report did not come out until after the Spanish American War. Even then, the answer they came up with (Spanish Attack) was incorrect as recent findings have shown.

As an even worse example, in a book lambasting the government for lying to it's people, Admiral Theobold commented that there were six investigations into what happened at Pearl Harbor, none of which adequately covered the facts, and what was known in 1953 when he wrote it. According to all of those inquiries, it was still Kimmel and Short's fault.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-13-2006, 03:36 PM   #61
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I learn something new every day.
It's not important to the storyline itself, I just like to have the little details accurate, too. Thanks!


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-16-2006, 02:41 PM   #62
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
In my last critical review, I commented about someone using a rather odd version of torture. I think, while most of us might be appalled, I am going to cover that today.

The first thing to remember is that torture only works in one specific situation. That is when you want information that is both time sensitive, and can be answered by a single yes or no question. It is brutal, extemely painful, and otherwise usless. There are much better interogation techniques including sensory deprivation and drugs that work a lot faster and without a lot of the pain. They may not be as fast, but they work.

Unfortunately,there are always those that want to hurt someone else. They are the bulk of torturers. But they are by no means the worst of the lot. These are the kind that beat up on you because they can, nothing more. When it comes time for them to torment someone, they need direction to assure that they don't have a bit too much fun and murder the victim.

The worst however are the sociopaths who tend to run such operations. To a sociopath no one beyond himself is really important, so inflicting pain does not give him a thrill, or disgust. He is just doing what he wants to do. When someone is being tortured systematically, it is usually a sociopath who is directing it.

The character in the story I mentioned reminded me more of a spoiled brat. Sort of like Darth Vader saying, 'yeah, I'm mean, and if I want to hurt you I will'. His torture was neither organized nor systematic. He was demanding answers, but at the same time you knew he would have continued even if they had told him everything. This is a common flaw with people that write about such things without researching it. When Lucas had Princess Leia tortured in A New Hope, it was obvious even if we didn't see it. In The Empire Strikes Back, Han Solo mentioned it in that 'they don't seem to want answers' meaning he could see what was wrong with their methods.

If you are going to use a torture scene, read up on the subject. The one thing you will discover is that a lot of things you might define as torture is not because prisoner interrogation is not the same as the American Legal system where they can't even question you if you demand a lawyer.

Don't go in for the hot iron and bamboo shoots if you villain had other options. I figure if I had 25,000 years of historical experience behind me, I wouldn't use something so mundane.

As an example, read the KOTOR excerpt scene where Saul is torturing the members of the Ebon Hawk crew.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 06-16-2006 at 02:50 PM. Reason: typo
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-17-2006, 07:58 PM   #63
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
To add on, often I have noticed that mental and emotional torture is far more effective than physical torture. Sometimes all three achieve the same objective though I have not had the unpleasant experience of that. Ohysical intimidation is an effective tool as well. You can show it and if you have enough bark behind it, it can scare a person who is rather weak willed.
As to researching on torture, read up on kiddnappings especially of Americans being kidnapped by the guerilla groups in Columbia and other South American countries. Fictional novels set in south America make references to military regimes and such and the force used to maintain order. One such novel is The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende who lived in Chile during the time of Pinoche.
History provides some good examples of military regimes and often some interesting insights as to how they kept law and order, in their words. Sometimes torture is mentioned as well. One could be such as in El Salvador during the time of the war in the 80's I think. They would torture and kill their intellectuals in gruesome ways like with jumper cables, beatings and rape. Just some thoughts and add ins since I have read first hand accounts of kidnappings and torture. Just remember that methods differ between different groups and regions.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-17-2006, 10:50 PM   #64
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
History provides some good examples of military regimes and often some interesting insights as to how they kept law and order, in their words. Sometimes torture is mentioned as well. One could be such as in El Salvador during the time of the war in the 80's I think. They would torture and kill their intellectuals in gruesome ways like with jumper cables, beatings and rape. Just some thoughts and add ins since I have read first hand accounts of kidnappings and torture. Just remember that methods differ between different groups and regions.
The worst part of torture by a government of it's own is, now get this because it is true;

Not illegal.

When the original UN rules about both Genocide and Torture were accepted, the term Genocide was defined as mass slaughter for 'religious or military reasons'. Meaning the Russians weren't in violation running the Gulags. When it came to torture, it was defined as 'extension beyond present days laws' If your laws allows torture, in other words, you are not in violation of International law.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-18-2006, 12:19 PM   #65
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
And the funny thing is we condemn what some of our soldiers did to POWs in Iraq and are outraged by what the insurgents do in return. Heck I mentioned the rules of warfare to the males of my family and all I got was, "In war there are no rules." Funny eh?

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-18-2006, 12:46 PM   #66
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
The insurgents were doing some really nasty things long before we did anything at Abu Ghraib. They choose to use Abu Ghraib and other events as excuses to continue their attacks. At least we _try_ to follow the Geneva convention. It's never going to be perfect, because when you're guarding the guy who just killed a bunch of friends in your unit, it's tough controlling your emotions enough to not wring the guy's neck.

There is one rule in war: Kill them before they kill us.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-18-2006, 02:00 PM   #67
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
The insurgents were doing some really nasty things long before we did anything at Abu Ghraib. They choose to use Abu Ghraib and other events as excuses to continue their attacks. At least we _try_ to follow the Geneva convention. It's never going to be perfect, because when you're guarding the guy who just killed a bunch of friends in your unit, it's tough controlling your emotions enough to not wring the guy's neck.

There is one rule in war: Kill them before they kill us.
One of the things I have been working on it an historical overview of war crimes and war crimes trials. What I have found out is that we have yet to have a war crimes trial that has not been driven by political motivation. I can leave out Saddam and Milosovich in this regard because A: Milosovich was being tried by an international tribunal, and B: Saddams trial is based on incidents within his own country which by definition are not War Crimes.

What interested me more was the fact that in WWI the British violated international law, then whined because the Germans took the only option available in that situation.

As for your family JM12, that is almost a quote from Winston Chruchill, the man that ordered that original violation. 'In a war of survival there are no rules'.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-15-2006, 01:03 AM   #68
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Mach (or anyone into Navy)--got any mutiny tips for me? My enterprising Sith Lord has managed to corrupt some captains and they're coming in their ships with the rest of a Republic force, only to turn on them when they arrive on site.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-15-2006, 01:42 AM   #69
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Mach (or anyone into Navy)--got any mutiny tips for me? My enterprising Sith Lord has managed to corrupt some captains and they're coming in their ships with the rest of a Republic force, only to turn on them when they arrive on site.
My following suggestion comes from my adventures with the West End Games D6 Star Wars RPG;

I had an Imperial Remnant fleet persuing me one time of an Executor class Star Dreadnought, and twelve Imperator class Star Destroyers, I just had my one Battlestar at the time (yes a ship like the Galactica)... the rest of our group were each off on their own doing the Scooby Doo thing. Luckily for me I was ready.

RedHawke used Control Minds in conjunction with a few others, namely a little preparation with Rage and Concentrate, spent a Force Point and 'corrupted' the crew of the whole fleet... had to kill the Dark Jedi/Sith Wannabe on the Dreadnought, and his apprentice, but his normal minions weren't helping him any. As they now saw things my way.

I made off with all those ships... the Star Dreadnought (Super Star Destroyer) was called the Harbinger and I definately transferred my 'flag' to that ship after that event, 17.6 kilometers of sheer terror, yup it was quite a game. The GM wanted my hide afterward as I took out his main villan in a quick duel and easily aquired all his ships.

Anyway, for what it is worth... I hope it helps.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-15-2006, 01:59 AM   #70
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
That is just Evil. Sounds just like something Jolee would do.
Reminds me of a time when a friend of mine played an Oriental D&D campaign. This monk character leveled up and had to take a taboo, and so the player decided the monk wouldn't wear anything in the color 'a mauvey shade of pinky russet.' Well, weeks later, he'd pretty much forgotten about that, and thought everyone else had, too. Until the DM had them kill something and get treasure. In the pile of loot there was a magic obi the guy really wanted. The DM looked at him with a wicked grin and said, "It's a mauvey shade of pinky russet."


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-15-2006, 12:10 PM   #71
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Mach (or anyone into Navy)--got any mutiny tips for me? My enterprising Sith Lord has managed to corrupt some captains and they're coming in their ships with the rest of a Republic force, only to turn on them when they arrive on site.
First thing to remember is that you need more than a captain. On a ship the size of say a Star Destroyer, you would need a minimum of ten officers and senior ratings who are in on it.

These people would have to be in positions of authority sufficient to pull it off in the necessary departments (Scan, command, engineering, weapons, Marines if any) and capable of giving the orders and expecting them to be obeyed.

To get them to fight their own fleet you will need a rationale. Unlike the scene in Revenge of the Sith you don't have men programmed to immediately obey. So come up with a reason for an enemy to be in charge of those other ships, and use it. A good way is faked signals suggesting that the Admiral in charge of the fleet is himself in mutiny, and you are trying to restrain him.

If you read that section of Republic Dawn, you will notice that the mutineers claimed that the Jedi were attacking. It was only officers outside the conspiracy unwilling to accept the situation and orders that saved that situation.

Once the fighting starts, it is unlikely that there will be a counter mutiny, because you would need to communicate to the crew that they are attacking their own ships, and organize a resistance aboard. An excellent series of books giving you that situation are Winning Colors and Once a Hero by Elizabeth Moon. Moon herself was a serving officer in the Marines if I remember correctly.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-15-2006, 02:29 PM   #72
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Thanks. I was thinking a few small ships actually--nothing huge like a Star Destroyer where I'd have to have a ton of people involved. My Sith Lord was planning on taking over the Navy at some point (in much the same manner that Palpatine moved up the Senate ranks to take over the Republic), so he's started to arrange to have allies placed in higher ranks. I may have created a continuity error already and I haven't even begun my next chapter. Ah well, that's what the edit button's for.
Yes, I did read that part in Republic Dawn (actually, the whole piece) and enjoyed it very much. I found the whole sequence of events fascinating to follow.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 01:14 AM   #73
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
The numbers would not change much regardless of size of the ship.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 12:00 PM   #74
JediAthos
Senior Member
 
JediAthos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,438
Current Game: Defiance
Forum Veteran Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
If anyone has any good resources on sword fighting I would appreciate it if they would share. I'm attempting to script the final battle of my story and it is not going very well at this point. I attempted to locate some web sources on fencing but haven't been very successful.


"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

JediAthos is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 02:16 PM   #75
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos
If anyone has any good resources on sword fighting I would appreciate it if they would share. I'm attempting to script the final battle of my story and it is not going very well at this point. I attempted to locate some web sources on fencing but haven't been very successful.
The best sources would be a book on Kendo, since the jedi style is closer to it than anything else. If you send specific scenes, perhaps I or we can help more.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 07:29 PM   #76
Point Man
Seeker of Truth
 
Point Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The People's Palace
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos
If anyone has any good resources on sword fighting I would appreciate it if they would share. I'm attempting to script the final battle of my story and it is not going very well at this point. I attempted to locate some web sources on fencing but haven't been very successful.
I do not know of any published manuals on what you want, but fencing is not it. Fencing is all working with the point. Lightsaber dueling is more like medieval sword fighting, in which you use the edge. I have some experience with that activity. If you would like me to look over your stuff, I would be happy to help.

For others' reference, I will explain some of the mechanics of sword fighting. First, the most important thing in any martial art is balance. If your stance is off, it does not matter how well you handle a sword. Most people teach to keep your feet about shoulder width apart, one foot about shoulder width in front of the other. Bend your knees slightly, but keep your back straight. Keep your opponent in front of you always. If he moves, turn to face him. Never cross your feet when you are moving; it puts you off balance.

With regard to your saber, you must remember that your saber is both your offense and your defense. Therefore, you must keep it in front of you at all times. None of the huge arcing swings like you see in the movies. If you hold it with both hands and swing it like a baseball bat, you are leaving your body entirely open to attack.

IMO the best way to handle a lightsaber is to hold it like a bastard sword. Place both hands on the hilt, about 6 inches (15 cm) apart. Hold the saber at about waist height, pointing up, and tilted slightly toward your opponent. Holding your blade upright will block most body and head shots. To block your legs, simply drop your hands straight down.

To throw a shot, use the bottom hand to move the pommel and the top hand as a fulcrum. You can also snap the top hand forward as you pull the bottom hand toward you. You can vary the angles of attack, but never go for a target below your opponent's knees; it exposes your head. All your opponent needs to do is hop or sidestep and bring his saber down on your head. If you're thinking this looks like a static, slow method of sword fighting, you're wrong. Using the saber as a lever like this is incredibly fast because it only takes a minimum of movement of the pommel to make the tip move quite a bit. In my medieval combat group, bastard sword is the fastest system we use.

Keeping these principals in mind will keep the dueling realistic. I can usually suspend my disbelief in the movies, but it does bother me when I see the way people handle their lightsabers.


Show me a man who is twenty and not a liberal, and I will show you a man with no heart.
Show me a man who is forty and not a conservative, and I will show you a man with no brain.

Point Man is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 10:10 PM   #77
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
The numbers would not change much regardless of size of the ship.
Thanks! I think I got something figured out....


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 10:30 PM   #78
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo fett 66
I do not know of any published manuals on what you want, but fencing is not it. Fencing is all working with the point.
That is why I compared it to Kendo, which works primarily with the edge and power strokes rather that European methods. The problem with the bastard or Zwei-hand is that you have a 200 mm section of what is really the blade to use with a German style Zweihander or Scots Claymore. But a 42" Dai-Katana has no such safety zone.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 07-16-2006 at 10:31 PM. Reason: typo
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 10:40 PM   #79
Point Man
Seeker of Truth
 
Point Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The People's Palace
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
That is why I compared it to Kendo, which works primarily with the edge and power strokes rather that European methods. The problem with the bastard or Zwei-hand is that you have a 200 mm section of what is really the blade to use with a German style Zweihander or Scots Claymore. But a 42" Dai-Katana has no such safety zone.
I'm not sure what kind of swords you are using, but my bastard sword is 48" (120 cm) long overall, with 12" (30 cm) of it being hilt.


Show me a man who is twenty and not a liberal, and I will show you a man with no heart.
Show me a man who is forty and not a conservative, and I will show you a man with no brain.

Point Man is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-16-2006, 10:49 PM   #80
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,827
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo fett 66
I'm not sure what kind of swords you are using, but my bastard sword is 48" (120 cm) long overall, with 12" (30 cm) of it being hilt.
The Zweihander and Heavy Scots Claymore are only different by the design of the two smaller blads near the pommel.

A bastard sword was originally designed for someone used to a standard sword learning to fight with a longer sword. The bastard is excellent for such combat except that the originals had rounded rather than sharp points.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Coruscant Entertainment Centre > The Resource Centre > The Expert Forum

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:46 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.