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Old 05-12-2006, 12:38 PM   #41
Admiral Raven
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Stop whining, we get to play with the Eclipse! Eclipse = teh secks!!


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Old 05-12-2006, 02:47 PM   #42
Darth Anarch
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Maybe it's just me, but from watching the videos it looks like the Eclipse is a "background" unit, like the Death Star. It hangs untouchable in the background and fires its laser at certain intervals. Is this correct?
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:20 PM   #43
magna mandaloe
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I Doubt it and who ever said Tyber Zann steals ESSD is correct but if that is true we would need 2 super weapon killers :P

we have Lando now we need a job interview for heros :P





*Changed cause I did'nt like old much*
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:20 PM   #44
Dilandau-Sama
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Well, the Empire gets Super Star Destroyers and the Pirates get an Eclipse. Maybe you can take on the Eclipse with 20 SSDs?


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Old 05-12-2006, 03:23 PM   #45
magna mandaloe
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If it is true and Eclipse super star destroyer would have a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg recharge Time atleast Tyber Zann gets IG-88 and the lady of the sith bire or what ever..





*Changed cause I did'nt like old much*
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:59 PM   #46
Darth Anarch
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I'm not so sure it's set in stone that Zann gets the Eclipse. My guess is that the Underworld campaign is centred on GETTING the Eclipse, and if you succeed you get to use it in the last mission. If it is in the Galactic Conquest game at all I'm betting that it costs a bundle, requires level 5 research and moves really, really slow.

But I still think it's a background unit. It doesn't seem to have any hardpoints in any of the screens I've seen, and no one seems to be targetting it. I'm thinking it'll be like Death Star II, hanging back from the action and taking potshots at other ships, maybe even spawning some garrisoned units like the Death Star does.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:02 AM   #47
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Eradicator is right

After having waited with baited breath for the expansion and having just watched the trailer all I can say is the expansion looksÖstupidÖa pirate faction getting a capital ship that dwarfs a super star destroyer, with enough power to destroy a planet (effectively) is just nuts. The Eclipse is simply titanic. If you want to see a comparison from the Dark Empire sourcebook regarding ship scales then go to this site below. Mind you this site argues the true length of the standard Super Star Destroyer is 19km, which is that of the Eclipse. http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/weg/ships.gif

I have already seen a lot of points raised already, and this is just my two cents worth but it just stuffs up the accepted star wars history and is really implausible.

Some have said that since Xizorís outfit could take on Vader that this criminals power grab is plausibleÖ.wrong. Xizor got owned and got owned by a small portion of the Empires military might. If any faction in the SW universe grew dangerous enough they would be dealt with accordingly by either the Rebels or the Empire, especially if they have such juicy technology as claimed in the demo. The Empire can spend unimaginable amounts of credits on R&D but some glorified smuggler/galactic drug dealer gets his hands on advanced tech first? Yeah right. And a Sith witch? C'mon, give me a break. The two Sith dudes running the galaxy would be more closely aligned to her than the criminals.

I saw reference to all these storylines where criminals and others got their hands on ISDs and SSDs and to be frank; all that is retarded too. If itís expanded universe, its just crap. I donít even want the Eclipse in the game because itís from Dark Empire and that is nothing but a spin off. That goes for SOTE too. That was dumb. As if the Emperor would get rid of one of the last jedi in the galaxy in favour of some criminal. The line should be drawn at ROTJ. If Empire at War is going down the EU tangent, and messing up the time line; bring on the World Devastators and Sun Crushers and all those other ridiculous super weapons. And I really donít think the Eclipse will be a background unit. How else are you supposed to destroy it? Good olí Red Squadron? What about the Empire? If it is set after ROTJ, Vader is dead and the second DS is space junk? Whatís the Empire going to do?

I saw a remark that EAW was marketed as ďmake your own star wars historyĒ but that is all it is, a marketing ploy. All games where the player can play as the Empire are going to allow the possibility to an Empire victory, but they do so without stuffing up the accepted history too much. Rebellion was a great game for sticking closely to the true Star Wars history and personally, I would have liked to have seen the graphics of EAW with the strategic view of Rebellion. That was such a cool game, even though the ships capabilities were inaccurate for equality. And the mighty Lancer frigate made an appearance in that game if you remember; and in X:Wing Alliance.

I donít think the TIE Phantoms should be in it; I think they should be Advancedís instead, at least this ties (pardon the pun) in with Vaders TIE X-1 and the flight sim games etc, although their performance could not be much better than the new Interceptors otherwise they will be unbalancing. The new interceptors will probably be the best fighter available. Though they could always compensate by jacking up the price. Personally they donít need to include any other fighter than the interceptor for the Empire. The Lancer frigate was described as far back as the WEG SW RPG in the Imperial Sourcebook, first Ed in 1989, two years before Zahnís books. It was apparently first built after the destruction of the first Death Star. I am one of those in favour of renaming the Tartan.

The B-wings I expect will be overly effective against capital ships but this will be needed for parity. They will be tough but vulnerable to fighters as expected.

Personally, though I love SSDs, I donít know how practical they are going to be in game. Corvettes are microscopic in comparison; Have a look at IGNís website:

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/827/827314/imgs_1.html

What I would like to see is options for star destroyers. Since itís accepted that there are two versions, the later model should feature heavier firepower for increased cost. And how about these options for debate:

*Rebel Frigates can spawn 1 Sqdn of X-Wings
*Mon Cals can spawn 1x X-Wing, A-Wing, and Y-Wing (or B-Wing) Sqdns
*ISDs to compensate for Mon Cals fighters gains an extra 2x TL, 2x Ion
*Victory SDs weapons changed to 2x TL, 4x Torps, and made slower
*Allow upgrade to Victory II which has 4x TL, 2x Ion, slightly faster than Victory SD.
*Allow upgrade to Imperial II which has 4x Hvy TL, 2x TL, 2x Ion
*Introduce Rebel Bulk Cruiser which has 2xLC and 1x X-Wing, A-Wing, and Y-Wing (or B-Wing) Sqdns
*Introduce Carrack cruiser with 1 TL 2x LC 1xTIE scout sqdn
*Introduce Strike cruiser with 2x TL 1x Ion 1xTIE sqdn
*Maybe even introduce a dreadnought with 2x TL 2x LC 1xTIE sqdn

As for ground stuff, the only real necessary inclusion is TIE fighters for the Empire. Rebels dont really need anything, they kick butt on the ground as is plus they are getting Yoda and Luke.

I hope the developers read this and change a few things before its release. I really wish they went back in time and did a clone wars version with Venators, Acclamators (in the time period they should be), Dreadnoughts and CIS vessels, jedi fighters, clones, droids, gunships etc. Now that would be good.
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Old 05-15-2006, 03:07 AM   #48
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ahhh finally a reasonable person posting here
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:04 AM   #49
Darth Anarch
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First of all, there are no Sith witches in the game. The Dathomiri witches have nothing whatsoever to do with the Sith.

On the subject of the Lancer I agree with you. Why invent a new ship that does exactly the same when there's already an existing one? That looks cooler, to boot.

Could a criminal organization stand up to the Empire in a toe-to-toe slugfest of military might? Of course not, as Xizor found out in Shadows of the Empire. However, in subterfuge, manipulation and deviousness they could certainly hold their own. And since this is a computer game and not real life, they could hardly NOT give the underworld faction warships and ground troops. That would be pretty boring.

Of course the unit scales are off. If everything was to scale we wouldn't be able to see the starfighters at all next to the capital ships. Again, it's a computer game, not an engineering thesis.

Finally I would just like to say that if the thought of these things bug you so much, don't buy the game. It really is that simple.


"We think in language; therefore, the quality of our thoughts can only be as good as the quality of our language."

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Old 05-15-2006, 11:32 AM   #50
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Forget it Anarch. Like my friend Pablo always says:"There will always be whine."


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:10 PM   #51
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Rust Lord is right though.

There's a lot being given to this made up faction including the largest capital ship in the game. That makes no sense. The Empire must be an Empire.

I don't like making comparisons to StarCraft, but it was one of the greatest, most diverse, and most balanced RTS in gaming history. Now we have three factions and if any one of these factions was going to be the 'slow moving heavy-weights' take a guess which faction should fit that description. Take a guess which faction should fit the description of 'zerglings on land' (*cough*Stormtroopers*cough*). Take a guess which faction should be the mobile, adaptable Terrans (HaachhoooREBELS!) and who should be the tough yet micromanaging Protoss-like third faction (Pirates I guess).

Who should NOT get the largest capital ship in the game... Uh... Pirates...? Please. Don't tread on the empire, man. Keep the teams diverse! We shouldn't have Broadside-Cruisers on one side and Missle Cruisers on the other. Change it up a bit!

Not whining. I admittedly got very frustrated with this game initially. Really bad bugs and boredom (before modding) really irked a lot of our community and I admit I lashed out right away when they anounced FOC, but there are many things I'm hearing about this expansion that's making me have a new hope. It sounds really awesome, but then, of course... they go and... do something... add something totally contrived and...*sigh*... what shall we say, let's just call it the Jar-Jar curse?


http://www.techwarrior.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=37025743
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:44 PM   #52
Darth Anarch
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Why does everyone automatically assume that the Underworld faction will be GIVEN the Eclipse? It's not as though they build it themselves; the Eclipse is under construction at some secret Imperial shipyard somewhere, and the Underworld campaign is centred on STEALING it from the Imperials. I'm thinking they'll get to use it in the very last mission, and that will be it. It might not even be available in Galactic Conquest mode; this is currently being discussed in a thread somewhere. The Eclipse is a plot device, not a unit per se.


"We think in language; therefore, the quality of our thoughts can only be as good as the quality of our language."

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Old 05-15-2006, 09:13 PM   #53
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retort ;)

Just to clarify because I know a lot of people on forums like to nit-pick on the slightest discrepancy whether it was said sarcastically or not. I read the witch is force sensitive and she is running around doing evil stuff. Sounds like a Sith to me, or are the devs further complicating factions? There was a time when users of the force where either good and bad. Now there seem to be some only in it for the money

Iím not against making criminals a faction, the game needs a third faction, and I agree that they have to use cunning and sneaky tactics to achieve their aims but if it is translating into galactic domination by force, including some pretty awesome warships then I donít think much of it. It seems pretty clear to me after watching the demo that the capture of the Eclipse is central to the criminals plot and their victory will culminate in stealing it, using it and demonstrating their status in the galaxy. The agenda of this new criminal guy is not and should not be overthrowing ol' Palpatine and taking the chair himself. I highly doubt the Eclipse will be available in skirmish or galactic conquest. I think if there is an extra campaign for the rebels or imperials then it will be a usable unit, presuming it is part of those campaigns too, because somehow you have to be able to destroy it. The expansion may very well include only the criminals campaign and only they can get their hands on the ship.

The way their influence is going to be measured is a great idea. It will allow for control of a planet without having to get involved in alot of combat. In combat though, they should get some better ships than pirates currently get but nothing exceptional. Their strength should be in modifications and hampering the enemies production and effectiveness. What about sneaky stuff like a false transponder that many smugglers and bounty hunters were supposed to have that gives them the ability to appear as a friendly until you close right in to an advantageous position and let them have it, like German raiders in WW2. If their stuff is not the best then it is going to be cheap too. I am curious to see how comparable the criminals will be in skirmish mode when one of their strengths is to slow production?? This is something I would expect could only be done by a minor hero or above.

As for the scales, itís a no brainer the scales are off, I agree, but I just donít want to see the great game play messed up by some gimmick of including vessels half the size of the screen or more. Itís pretty ambitious. Time for a bigger monitor?

You know what, I wonít buy the game, not until I have played it and it impresses the hell out of me. If it doesnít I wont buy it, I will shelve EaW and I will play something else (NWN2). However I think there will be some things in the game that I really do want to see like B-Wings and Interceptors, and wished had of been in the game from the start. I do think in the end the game will be pretty good and all the extravagances they are putting out there will be reigned in. A lot of it is just to hype the game up. Cant blame them, they want to sell as many copies as possible.

Sure I may sound like I am whining, but do I careÖno. It just disappoints me when games get close to the mark but a few things let it down. I never thought of EaW in comparison to Starcraft, Tronus; very interesting and I think your assessment is pretty valid. And you are dead right about the broadside and missile cruisers; cant believe I forgot to have a whinge about that too ;p
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:44 AM   #54
magna mandaloe
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I Highly Doubt ESSD would be a Planet killer and its a Capital Ship killer. But I revisit the fact if the ESSD is a Backround object (Like Death Star ) we WOULD NEED A SECOND SUPER WEAPON KILLER (Like red Squadron unless it is Luke) and you People need to learn to read. Tyber Zann Steals the Eclipse Super Star Destroyer. He does not Own it. He does not Build it. He Steals it in its Construction stage when Axil Super Laser is complete and brings in a fleet to attack the Ship yard or do the Han solo method and steal a shuttle Get on board kill its crew and Destroy the yard (Kuat or something.)
And If this Expansion was only for the Pirates Petroglyph would have Dug thier own grave of stupidity and a very Large Reconstruction Mod for Factions which would not be Hard (Due to Original Empire at War XMLs) Then make a few Tweaks





*Changed cause I did'nt like old much*
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:40 PM   #55
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To bring peace to the geeks...

Wookiepedia says that the Eclipse featured in Forces of Corruption is a prototype, constructed early in the Galactic Civil War.
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