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Old 05-16-2006, 10:56 AM   #41
ChAiNz.2da
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz1978
Then why are some companies capable to deliver PC-games that are virtually bug-free and others aren't?
I have yet to own an RPG game (a reputable one that is) that hasn't offered a patch/fix (or TEN, such as Blizzard's Diablo II)...

The games that do not offer patches, are perhaps either rare.. or simple & plainly, just not that involved of a game anyways...

RPG's on the other hand are bound to have a glitch or two just because of the sheer depth of the game(s) and the contant globals and variables that have to be tracked...

Simple games like "pac-man" obviously don't need a patch


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Old 05-16-2006, 12:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
RPG's on the other hand are bound to have a glitch or two just because of the sheer depth of the game(s) and the contant globals and variables that have to be tracked...
Now you're talking about scripting and that shouldn't be affected by the hardware - unless the devs do something really stupid. If you take that out there's really no big difference if you got to port a RPG to PC or any other game. Take GTA SA for example - it comes from the PS2, so the step to the PC is even bigger than from Xbox to PC and I hardly see any similarities to PacMan...

A rare example yes, but it proves that it is possible...
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Darth Manus
Well, at least they didn't do like Interplay did with the Fallout games. They both had annoying bugs, and I believe that they just made a couple of patches for each game. After that, it's as if they just gave up, because the fans had to correct the remanining bugs on their own.
This reminds me of another game... { Old 2 }


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Old 05-16-2006, 01:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz1978
Now you're talking about scripting and that shouldn't be affected by the hardware - unless the devs do something really stupid. If you take that out there's really no big difference if you got to port a RPG to PC or any other game. Take GTA SA for example - it comes from the PS2, so the step to the PC is even bigger than from Xbox to PC and I hardly see any similarities to PacMan...

A rare example yes, but it proves that it is possible...
huh?

When did it become exclusively hardware related? Most patches to this date oftentimes contain fixes to scripts. Scripting language also plays a major role in games, porting or no...

Even then, if we were to take just game elements (excluding scripts) then models, particle effects, physics (if any), even game lighting is enough to contain information that will crash a comp.. or at a minimum, be "glitchy"..

and I've still yet to see any in-depth game be glitch/bug/fix free...

If you're implying that GTA SA is glitch-free.. I'd have to disagree..

and although the only "patch" for GTA SA is for "Cold Coffee".. it too fixes bugs that some didn't realize exist:

Quote:
Cold Coffee
Rockstar Games created a new website, which contains a patch, that will disable the hot-coffee scenes in GTA San Andreas.
So, if you want to disable or uninstall the hot coffee scenes, then go ahead and apply this patch.

NoMoreHotCoffee.com

Anyways, this patch also fixes a few bugs:


ADDITIONS

- Added support for 720p and 1080i HDTV resolutions (may also do 1080p, not sure).
- Version Number displayed on game title screen.

BUGS FIXED

*Issue fixed on machines where the OS has been updated (one OS installed over top of another) and has 2 registry keys that point to the users "My Documents" folder (we incorrectly used to assume the Win2000 folder, now correctly uses the last installed OS folder) - users know this as "user account period bug".

*Crash when entering advanced display options with only 32 meg of video ram (32 meg of video ram is not supported and will only allow use of 640*480 in 16 and 32 bit. At this resolution it is likely you will see the "Black Roads" LOD problem). We do NOT however disallow machines with 32 meg of video ram from running GRAND THEFT AUTO: San Andreas.

*Crash when entering advanced display options on a dual monitor machine after :- starting game on primary monitor in maximum resolution, exiting, starting again in maximum resolution on secondary monitor. Secondary monitor maximum resolution had to be greater than maximum resolution of primary monitor.

*Destroyed cars now are correct colour.

*Dirty cars now able to get clean.

*Numpad 5 key is now mappable when re-defining controls.

*Issue on all machines where certain collisions caused parts of the audio system to crash (sound effects, cutscene audio - only radio keeps going) - users know this as "Rain / Thunderstorm bug".

*Improvements to DVD streaming.

*Audio problems in interior / exterior transitions and getting in / out of cars fixed.

*Some fixes to ensure reverb is not present at certain save points.

*Improvements to dance game timings.

*Crash occuring when using "user radio files" while the frame limiter is disabled.
Posted by: Lucas @ August 10 2005, 11:19 am
source


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Old 05-17-2006, 04:49 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
When did it become exclusively hardware related? Most patches to this date oftentimes contain fixes to scripts. Scripting language also plays a major role in games, porting or no...
Ok, let's cut this down, before it gets ugly...

RedHawke stated that due to the variety of PC configurations PC-games would always need patches and console games wouldn't or better shouldn't. I'm not delusional (but if I were, I wouldn't notice, so I can't be sure...) and I know that it's next to impossible to develop a game that's bug/glitch/whatever-free at all and it's definitely impossible if anyone wants to make money with it. But there's still a big difference between games that are "virtually" bug-free (and I still think that GTA SA is a good example) and games that should come with a cheque for beta testing (UFO Aftershock/ Deus Ex).
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:20 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Buzz1978
Ok, let's cut this down, before it gets ugly...
Agreed.. Truce.
Quote:
RedHawke stated that due to the variety of PC configurations PC-games would always need patches and console games wouldn't or better shouldn't. I'm not delusional (but if I were, I wouldn't notice, so I can't be sure...) and I know that it's next to impossible to develop a game that's bug/glitch/whatever-free at all and it's definitely impossible if anyone wants to make money with it. But there's still a big difference between games that are "virtually" bug-free (and I still think that GTA SA is a good example) and games that should come with a cheque for beta testing (UFO Aftershock/ Deus Ex).
Definitely.. and I do agree with you there.

Being "virtualy" bug-free vs "my pc crashes every 3-1/2 steps unless I press A+B, left click and hop on one foot" can be the make-or-break deal to enjoying a game.. or it's franchise survival

I think QA needs to play a larger role in pre-distribution.. and be given the time to do so.. but well, we all know that's a pipe-dream unless development was to finish up uber-early and not tell the suits.. hehehe..

Still, as much as all the griping/moaning/pulling hair.. I don't think TSL has destroyed the franchise for the PC and though I can see Prime's point about the waiting for console market saturation.. I DO hope that it doesn't come to that...


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Old 05-17-2006, 12:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da
I don't think TSL has destroyed the franchise for the PC and though I can see Prime's point about the waiting for console market saturation.. I DO hope that it doesn't come to that...
Hmm, the XBox360 ranks #4 in "computer & video games" on amazon.com and #29 (total) on amazon.de and from what I've read they've sold way over 3 Million XBox360 until now and just because MS wasn't able to produce more. I really have no idea how *anyone* can buy this thing but it sure sells like hell. So if a developer would begin to work on K3 right now, he would have a peer group of something like 10-15 Million XBox360-owners when the game is ready to be published. I know nobody asks me but if anyone would I would say there's no sense in waiting.

I like my idea better, that K3 will use the NWN2 graphics engine and the development of K3 will have to wait until NWN2 has been published. I also don't think that K3 will be XBox exclusive - it's the third of a series that was published on XBox and PC and TSL is not the only game that sold better on a non-PC-system but was published on PC nevertheless.
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Old 05-17-2006, 03:14 PM   #48
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The fact is, I am more worried on if the game will come out at ALL. I will make adjustments to my PC/360 after I know it is coming out. I wouldn't worry until then.
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz1978
RedHawke stated that due to the variety of PC configurations PC-games would always need patches and console games wouldn't or better shouldn't.
I stand by what I said too...


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