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Old 06-02-2006, 02:43 PM   #1
Yadiel
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Question FoC doubts and suggestions

Well first ill ask something i've been curious of.
It's about the bribe ability, if i get it well u will be able to bribe almost everithing from infantry to mechs, I was just wondering if this includes the stormtroopers
(i guess it's ovbious 'cause they are infantry), my point is that this action would be a little weird, 'cause the stormtroopers are supposed to be something like fanatics of the empire, units u can't seduce nor bribe, at least thats how they've been ever described.

If it is possible I would like to see the bribe ability to be something like this:
Empire
infantry should be impossible to bribe ('cause they are fanatics)
field commanders and fleet commanders, as they are not part of the shock troops you should be able to bribe them, they are not fanatics, some are loyal (like Gilead Paellion or Veers), some are traitors or wish for coup(grand admiral zaarin, or the same moff we fouth in the EaW campaign), so i would expect it wont be as expensibe to bribe them as it would be to bribe some rebellion minor hero.
and finally with the mechs, its almost the same, generals and commanders and admirals should be able to be bribed, but i wont expect that tie maulers or tie crawlers(if u are thinking on useint the upgrade) be bribed, cause they are piloted by guys specially trained like the tie pilots (this guys are fanatics to) <----i'm not so sure of who pilot the maulers

Rebellion
infatry, they are not fanatics, but they fight 'cause they believe in an ideal, so even thought more of them are loyal, i guess it is possible to bribe them, not easy, not cheap, but possible, cause ideals can change.
field and fleet commander the same as with the empire, but i would expect it to be a little bit more expensive and/or if the exit of the bribe is random (be able to fail) it should be easy to bribe someone of the empire than someone of the rebellion (if they are fighting for what seems an impoisible dream, why would some money change their mind, not saying its immposible, just a bit more difficult)

Neutrals (pirates and the rest of the popullation)
they are neutrals for some reason dont heheh, there shouldn't be any problem to bribe them, show them the money and they will dance for u.

and now just some random sugestions
I think Home One should be bigger, at least in the books its described to be bigger than the liberty class crusiers (think thats the name of the mon cal crusiers we use in the game, not so sure)

About the Gunship, =( im sad 'cause its not the ultimate anti-fighter starship it should be, in the books and databank it says that his purpose is to be an anti-fighter platform, I know we got the corellian crusiers in the game, and thats our game anti-fighter ship, but if possible could u change this, I don't know, maybe u can lower the power of the corellian crusier(that would make it almost useless I know =( ) and let the Gunship to use lassers insted of those missiles, I know that changeing the corellina and letting it to still be a usefull ship will be difficult but maybe something can be done I dont like the idea of the Gunship not being a Gunship XD or maybe u can keep the missiles and add the lasser turrets, that would be interesting, but maybe it will overpower it, I dont remember if the books mention any missile launcher on it.

bout phantoms, I know its not going to happen, but it would be nearer to reality (in my opinion...and inside of what we can call reallity here hehehehe) if they were individual units, not squadrons like the rest of the starfighters, it's because they are radar blind (if u can see them in ur x-wing radar i guess the phantoms can't see each other in their radars), they only have visual, so if they were deployed on wings as the rest fo the fighters they could easily collide between themselves (with this I'm not saying that they won't collide if deployed individualy, but at least it will be harder).

Hahahah one more thing...this thread is getting bigger by the time
Can't we have all the heroes for Galactic Conquest =( in the campaings i was expecting Kyle to be the help Mon Mothma was speaking off, not Han =(, anyway I cant get why we cant use Kyle and Mara in GC, maybe we could have Jedi Kyle and for the empire maybe Kyr Kanos or some other bad guy, I can't get a name right now but there are plenty of guys we can have as heroes (almost all the action-man like heroes are in the rebellion side hehehe)

Extra units that maybe interesting:
Page commandos <--maybe these guys are the infiltrators in game, want to belief it.
Noghri Deathsquads (if u posses hongr and u'r imp)
space troopers <---knows it's never going to happen and that they maybe would be useless in game but anyway i like them
magma troopers (we have stormtroopers for everything, i saw them once in the databank, they should just appear like the snow troopers and sandtroopers and maybe don't get the health reduction the infantry suffers in some worlds like Mustafar)


think it's all for now.
hope that some devs read my post, ill really appreciate it.
when i say books i mean the books and the databank
I know my english is bad, u don't have to tell me, but ill appreciate the corrections =)

Last edited by Yadiel; 06-02-2006 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 06-02-2006, 03:45 PM   #2
wedge2211
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There are several instances in the Expanded Universe of Stormtroopers being bribed. They aren't fanatics in the sense that they hold ideals above their own lives--in fact, that describes Rebel troops far better than Imperial troops. Stormtroopers have, however, been intensely indoctrinated--but that's different from fanaticism. I would think that Stormies would be easier to bribe than Rebel troops.

In answering various questions in this forum or in dev chats, the Petroglyph developers have indicated that every unit can be bribed--but for the right price, which may be quite steep. So while Tyber Zann will have the ability to bribe anyone, it might not be economical to try to bribe everyone.


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Old 06-02-2006, 04:29 PM   #3
Yadiel
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you got me with the fanatism, ur right about the definition, yep i should have used indoctrinated, but i still think they just shouldn't be bribed, I dont know everything about expanded universe, but i remember that in some cases they dont even remember they have a real name appart of the id number they receive, from what i know if u ask volunteers to crash a starship in a planet for the sake of the empire(thats the important point "sake of the empire") most probably only stormtroopers will answer, maybe its not impossible to bribe them...but u will need to make a brain wash on them again, at least with the ones trained in Caridia, and ofcourse the ones in 501st. I think thas why Palpatine stop useing clones, he can have an army of brainwashed soldiers that were cheaper than clones, and equally efective by training them.

All this changed since the Emperors death and the loss of Caridia, the remant is not so strict in the indoctrination, they even started to use non human in the trooper ranks.

hehe but well, guess we will have bribed stormtroopers in FoC.
ooo one last point...completely irrelevant but anyway, i always thought the stormtrooper squads were made of 8 not 9, cause storms were more efective than the clones(who used the 10 or 12 troops squad (normal clones not any specially trained clone)) hehehe lots of parentesis =)


ooo and about the Home One size, it great like it is in this pic =) (well maybe a little bit bigger, but im happy with that size)
http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/image_v...&sid=undefined

Home One was the flagship of the Rebel Alliance fleet during the Battle of Endor, commanded by Admiral Ackbar. It is between 1800 and 3800 meters long, well over twice the length of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer.
(guess there's still debate about its size, but at least they all say its far larger than a Imperator-class star destroyer)

The common Imperator-class star destroyer is generally acknowledged to be about 1600m or one mile long. Unlike dimensions quoted for some other important warships of the Imperial Starfleet, this length is not in serious dispute. However it is useful to briefly consider the available measurements and lines of evidence. <---again its open for debate, anyway Home1 should be bigger than this =)

Liberty class
This type was some 1500 meters long and had a sort of delta-winged design for greater surface area.

Last edited by Yadiel; 06-02-2006 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:32 PM   #4
darthcarth
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Yeah pretty sure clones cant be bribed but like u said they started using regular people instead of clones some time inbetween ep 3 and ep 4.


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Old 06-02-2006, 07:45 PM   #5
arkodeon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthcarth
Yeah pretty sure clones cant be bribed but like u said they started using regular people instead of clones some time inbetween ep 3 and ep 4.
This is a misconception. They did have clones at the time of Episode 4 - 6. The cloning vats from Kamino were destroyed, granted, but (I cannot remember the source, but there was a great debate about this, which I was apart of...) there were Clones of many different DNA strands in service of the Empire. Therefore, the statement that they did not use Clones is erroneus, however, altering the statement to say they did not produce any of Jango's clones would be acceptable.

Think about it. Why wouldn't the Empire use clones? We already know that the Emperor loved those cloning vats on Byss; he kept thousands of cloned bodies of himself there if he should ever die.

Pretty Freaky.



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Old 06-02-2006, 08:31 PM   #6
Admiral Sith
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Maybe because if just one of the clones decided to rebel, the rest would too?

The Empires armys is made up of conscripted people. Otherwise they wouldnt need planets like Carida. Get over it.



"It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars." -Arthur C. Clarke

"Ideals are like stars: you will not succeed in touching them with your hands, but like the seafaring man on the ocean desert of waters, you choose them as your guides, and following them, you reach your destiny." -Carl Schurz
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:41 PM   #7
Yadiel
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...well clones or not clones, jango clones or lucas clones XD that wasnt the point of this topic hahahahaha, just said that in my opinion stormtroopers shouldnt be bribed, and I already said why...by the way where did I said clones cant be bribed...thats true...but i never mentioned did I?
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:18 PM   #8
lukeiamyourdad
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But it doesn't exactly make sense that officers can be bribed but grunts cannot no? They may be indoctrinated and loyal to the Emperor but...the moffs and Zaarin didn't pilot their starships alone you know. They had a fair amount of grunts following them. I think it is simply natural to be able to bribe grunts.


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Old 06-02-2006, 11:27 PM   #9
Admiral Sith
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Yeah. They are people, even the most intense of trainings doesnt get rid of the person being trained. Also, whatshisname(the ship thief with the wraith) bribed a whole platoon of Imperial Troopers, complete with Chariots.



"It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars." -Arthur C. Clarke

"Ideals are like stars: you will not succeed in touching them with your hands, but like the seafaring man on the ocean desert of waters, you choose them as your guides, and following them, you reach your destiny." -Carl Schurz
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Old 06-03-2006, 02:26 AM   #10
Yadiel
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ok ok hehehe i give up, anyway it was only my opinion based on the official sources =)

Stormtroopers were totally loyal to the Empire and cannot be bribed, seduced or blackmailed.

Stormtrooper unit organization was separate to that of the Imperial Army and Navy, although this elite unit supported both arms of the Imperial Military. They followed similar organization patterns: squads, platoons, companies, battalions, regiments, and battlegroups (called legions). A stormtrooper battalion had 820 men. The health of stormtroopers was the responsibility of the Naval Biological group.

bla bla bla =)

http://www.starwars.com/databank/org...roopers/?id=eu

The Imperial STORMTROOPER is the foot soldier of the Empire. They are serving by the thousands in highly-trained Legions aboard starships, starbases, outposts, and countless worlds where the presence of the Empire is needed. Their characteristic white armor conceals the blackness of their souls. Their minds have been molded flawlessly into mere extensions of the Emperor's will. They cannot be bribed, influenced or pleaded with; they are carefully selected for their unquestioning determination to serve the Emperor to the death.

(from the Imperial source book)

and about Davin Feth, the guy who said "look Sir, Droids." he was a stormy only 6 months...so the indoctrination wasn't complete
a but...when u bribe an Admiral...it should be really expensive to bribe the what do u like...1000, 9,700, if talking of a ISD, stormtroopers inside that ship XD they are not really smart, u can tell them "The emperor said that we will go undercover with the rebels" ...they won't start argueing about it cause they were brainwashed XD and were left with almost no brains. Don't know think about any other way, adn the ones piloting the ships is the navy officers a completely different branch of the army and loyal to his admiral in some cases.

my last argument is what LucasFilm said after AotC, they said stormies were clones, but from different sources, not only Jango, thats why they are not all alike.

I don't quite like that idea(maybe no ranked stormies are clones, but i believe that storm officers cant be, kyle, madine, biggs, han, they were all there to be officers) but lets forget all this.

anyway what about the rest of the points that i mentioned =)

Last edited by Yadiel; 06-03-2006 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 06-03-2006, 03:20 AM   #11
Admiral Sith
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Its strait from Timothy Zahns books, so it maintains even over an objection from StarWars.com(which has been wrong alot before). Besides, if they were all clones to start with, why was the Rebellion so surprised to find that the troops they fought on the Katana were all clones?



"It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars." -Arthur C. Clarke

"Ideals are like stars: you will not succeed in touching them with your hands, but like the seafaring man on the ocean desert of waters, you choose them as your guides, and following them, you reach your destiny." -Carl Schurz
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Old 06-03-2006, 09:31 AM   #12
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Because Zahn didn't know that the clones in the Clone Wars had fought on the side of the Republic. Like everyone else at that time, he assumed that the clones had been the bad guys that the Republic fought against. Makes for a small continuity bump, but there you have it.


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