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Old 06-15-2006, 05:50 PM   #1
Dark_lord_Cheez
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am I the only one worried?...

Before I begin, I would like to express that I in NO WAY am trying to offend anyone. I only want to make a point on what *I* think and feel the story of k3 will be.


Alright, I have seen many topics which seem to center on ideas such as the return of Revan, a search for the Exile, rebuilding of the Jedi Order, etc. Am I the only one around here who actually wants the third game to not entirely rely on the plots of the first 2 games?

What I mean by this: The first game was great, it introduced an interesting perspective to the Star Wars universe, as well as provided an epic feel to a videogame which I personally have yet to see rivalled. Best of all it introduced a very original storyline for us all to enjoy, the idea of YOU being the dark lord of the Sith. YOU were the hero, you were the villain and you were everything inbetween before the start of the game, and you chose what path to follow down in the end.

One of the defining factors of the game too was that next to NOBODY believed you were Revan, you didn't even believe it at first, and what's more if you do something in the game people attribute it to Revan, not YOU. Why do I think this is so great? Because it makes the person really get into the game. I remember several times where I was yelling at the screen because that Sith soldier on Manaan refused to believe I had any importance in life at all. But the fact is though, that I REALLY got into the game, and really got into how I played my character. I found myself constantly trying to top myself in each playthrough to see if I would get any recognition at all. However to both my dismay, and my relief, I got none no matter what I did. This is part of the reason I have played the first game 30+ times. Why would I want to play as Revan again and get all the recognition in the world just because of who I am??? Wouldn't that just make the game seem boring? (Think of it: You walk into a room, and half of the people in the room bows down to you due to your complete awesomeness, and the other half pull out swords and guns and lightsabers, hoping to slice you up... and to top it all off, you are only level 1!!!) Is that the kind of game you want to play? I sure as hell know I wouldn't want to play that.


Also, if you remember correctly, in TSL the Exile is wanted DEAD by just about everyone minus Carth and Bastila. Why would someone send a search party after them? I suppose they could send a bunch of mercenaries/assassins after him/her, but they would more likely assume him/her to be dead. (They are going into the outer rim, remember? Which pretty much means that any number of beast could have eaten them by now. Also, who in the galaxy even knows that's where the Exile has gone??)


As for the Jedi Order being rebuilt: Just about every Jedi Master from the first two games are now dead. The Exile has left towards the outer regions, and all of their disciples have either gone with them, or have died. Revan is in the Outer Rim, and Bastila is the only real force user who is still around (If Revan was LS). Even *if* Bastila was to recreate a Jedi Order, she would have to start off with little kids, and train them until they are adults (although I have to admit, I would definately love to see a bunch of 5 year old jedi wipping out lightsabers and kicking the $#!+ out of some mercenaries, that is too much of a humorous plot to be anything other than a sidequest in the 3rd game.)


So let me reiterate my whole point: I want the third game to have next to nothing to do with the first 2. Look at the first game, did that have anything to do with the original or prequel trilogies? And how much did the second really have to do with the first? So is it really so illogical to say that the third game should *not* have the Exile and Revan return until at the very earliest the very end? That characters from the first two games should *not* rebuild the Jedi Order? That you should *not* start the game in an *already* rebuilt Jedi Order?


I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I'm not attacking anyone because they think differently than I do. I'm just worried that *too many* people have a different opinion than I do on the matter, and since this is a Lucas maintained site that whoever is making the next game might look at all our suggestions, see the ones which would probably detract from the series, and decide to use those ideas. I just want to see if I'm the only one who thinks the 3rd game should have as much originality as possible, and not become a sequel where everyone from the first two games returns... that would ruin the series in my honest opinion, and would be the final straw that would force me to give up on Lucasarts forever.


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:55 PM   #2
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Wow. I completely agree. Some parts of the new trilogy has to have some part of the two though. Just like the Trilogy, parts from other movies were incorporated into the last. But it'd be nice to start off fresh as maybe a child, learning the ways of the Force only to be known as 'the savior' who defeats Revan and the Exile or 'the horrible' who defeats good revan and good exile.
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:06 PM   #3
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I know how you feel and also dont want to start as Revan or the Exile, it would be really hard to work into the game anyway I'd think. The main thing I'm worried about in KOTOR III when its made is how they finish the Revan/Exile storyline.

Also starting off as a padawan in a newly formed Jedi Order would be cool. I think they could even have the tutorial part be everything up to your Knight trials, then the main quest line starts.


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Old 06-15-2006, 07:21 PM   #4
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Wow. A lot of great points in this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_cheez
Why would I want to play as Revan again and get all the recognition in the world just because of who I am??? Wouldn't that just make the game seem boring? (Think of it: You walk into a room, and half of the people in the room bows down to you due to your complete awesomeness, and the other half pull out swords and guns and lightsabers... and to top it all off, you are only level 1!!!) Is that the kind of game you want to play?
Wow. I never thought of it like that. I have never wanted to have Revan or the Exile to be a PC. Been there, done that.

But Revan isn't expendable. He has become the main figure in this series. I know he wasn't in the second game, but everywhere that you went, you were reminded about him. This series has made itself practically revolve around Revan's story.

Also, consider this: Revan left the ones he loved to face a threat that he had encountered during the Mandalorian War. If the 3rd game totally forgets about that, no one will ever know what the threat was, and millions of fans will be left endlessly coming up with ideas about what might have happened to them. So the third game needs to AT LEAST mention what happened to Revan.

The Exile is not as important, but i would just like to see him come back so we could learn more about him being a "wound in the force".

And the Exile and Revan are needed to answer some of the questions left over from the first two games.

Finally, i agree with you that the third game doesn't need to have anything to do with the first two games. But it does need to be in the same period of time, whether before KOTOR 1, or a little bit after KOTOR 2. Otherwise, it couldn't be named Knights of the OLD republic. But you have a great point.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.

Last edited by RedHawke; 06-15-2006 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Combining double post... I tire of this Oxy, please stop. Ok?
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:53 PM   #5
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I completely agree. Why does everyone insist on you being Exile or Revan? I'm sure in the time between KotOR 1 and KotOR 2 people wanted to be Revan again but it didn't happen. Everyone is saying also that they want this character and this character and this character. KotOR II had TOTALLY different characters than 1. Why do people think that they will get characters that have already been exhausted, their pasts uncovered? They are DONE.
I do agree with DarthOxyClean, though, that Revan does need to be at least mentioned. Revan is too integrated into the story to be ignored.


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Old 06-15-2006, 09:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthOxyClean
Also, consider this: Revan left the ones he loved to face a threat that he had encountered during the Mandalorian War. If the 3rd game totally forgets about that, no one will ever know what the threat was, and millions of fans will be left endlessly coming up with ideas about what might have happened to them. So the third game needs to AT LEAST mention what happened to Revan.

The Exile is not as important, but i would just like to see him come back so we could learn more about him being a "wound in the force".

And the Exile and Revan are needed to answer some of the questions left over from the first two games.

Finally, i agree with you that the third game doesn't need to have anything to do with the first two games. But it does need to be in the same period of time, whether before KOTOR 1, or a little bit after KOTOR 2. Otherwise, it couldn't be named Knights of the OLD republic. But you have a great point.

Oh don't get me wrong, k3 would definately have to answer some of the looming questions most of us have, such as Revan's fate and all. I just don't think the plot should be all "Let's play as Revan/the Exile and go into the outer rim!" or "Let's go on a search for Revan/the Exile!". To me those ideas just seem really poor excuses to continue the plots created by these two characters. Of course Revan and the Exile would be mentioned, and depending on how you played the first two games (or depending on how you choose to answer choice questions), the stories behind the two characters will change. On the same token though, I really don't want to see Revan/the Exile in the game unless they are used as enemies that you have to fight and defeat (that and you will be able to customize them based off of how you choose to answer certain questions in the game).


On the subject of the Jedi Order though, TSL made it VERY clear that the Jedi had disbanded, and were almost all wiped out. I really would hate to see that such a great plot twist is changed for the third game. I mean, the only reason Kreia, Vrook and everyone are talking about a threat from the outer region is because the Jedi aren't there to protect the Republic anymore. Whoever this threat was, they were supposedly behind the Mandalorian Wars, and manipulated courses of events to begin the Jedi Civil Wars, which completely decimated the Order. Whoever this 'threat' is, they single-handedly manipulated the Order into falling, and now they are just waiting for the last remaining Jedi to die out so they can come in and take the galaxy over. (this all could be speculation, but I think there is more than enough evidence in the ingame dialogues to prove my point) Anyway, if k3 does include a rebuilt Jedi Order, that would completely ruin the story of k2, which would be very bad IMHO. Although I don't think K3 should rigidly follow the storylines and plots of the first two games, if you bring the Jedi back, nobody will EVER discover who this new threat is. They'll simply just keep waiting in the shadows until the Jedi are no more.


I firmly believe that the main character should learn the ways of the Sith as opposed to the Jedi for the third installment, it just makes the most sense (and would be a welcome change from the whole "the Jedi are the righteous ones" idea that Star Wars is so fond of preaching to all of us. Why can't the Sith be the good guys for once??)


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:55 PM   #7
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There are too many unanswered questions raised in TSL for them to not at the least let us know what happened.


A man has got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink.
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
There are too many unanswered questions raised in TSL for them to not at the least let us know what happened.

True, but do you really need to include either Revan or the Exile to answer them? A datapad would do the trick, no need to play as either one, no need to go searching for either one, no need for a bunch of characters from the first two games to show up. I mean, how many questions were there really that can't be summed up with a new, fresh character with a new, fresh party and a new, fresh storyline?


Think about it, the Exile has no idea what in the world is going on with him/her, so they can't answer many questions. Revan still has amnesia, and like Bastila said in the first game: "Your mind was too badly damaged for your memory to ever fully be restored." Revan won't be able to answer many questions either, so why bring either of them into the third game other than to get a bunch of fans going "OOOHH! OMG! Revan completely PWNED that guy!". It just makes the most sense to me to have everything answered by other characters, not characters we are familiar with, but characters who would know what's going on rather than revan or the exile themselves. (Just like Kreia wasn't in the first game, but she knew quite a bit about Revan because she was his/her Jedi Master.)


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
There are too many unanswered questions raised in TSL for them to not at the least let us know what happened.
Actually, I don't think there are too many unanswered questions at all...

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Old 06-16-2006, 12:59 PM   #10
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wow....
i think that revan is the best, and i have no problem with doing all of that again, revan's power is limitless and there are so many people and connections from the two previous games, so far i ve only heard one good plot where u are not revan its on another thread. it goes by a jolee bindo a spirit ghost teaching u the ways of the jedi and training u. then after that and as a last mission jolee asks u to find revan or turn him light again.


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Old 06-16-2006, 01:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Prime
Actually, I don't think there are too many unanswered questions at all...
How did Revan and the Exile defeat the entire Sith Empire waiting for them without uniting the galaxy? What happened to their friends, and will they ever see them again? Will Revan ever explain why he did what he did to Mandalore, or if he and Bastila have a future. Will we ever see if Carth managed to make up with his son? Does the force, the binding power that "holds the galaxy together" apply outside the galaxy, where the Sith await?

If Revan and/or the Exile fell defending their friends and planets I don't want some crappy holocron telling me "they're dead get on with the game". I want to be able to see it, or control them as they go down fighting gloriously blowing up hordes of space planes and cutting down everything till their last breath.

If they won and survived, then I want to be there as well, and I don't want a datapad informing me " yes, yes Revan and the Exile beat everything in the unknown regions so get on with the game please". I want to be chopping things up beside them even if I don't get to control them.


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Old 06-16-2006, 01:19 PM   #12
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I knida agree and kinda dont, i would h8 to play as the same pc i mean they'd have to be like drained like kreia was or somin like that, i think it'd be good if you where say one of the trainees in the jedi temple and then it got destroyed but u servived and u have to like go to corusant temple then the story goes on from there, Revan did have a limit for his power!(lvl 20)
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklord_malak
revan's power is limitless
...What are you talking about? 0o Do you see Revan walking around blowing up planets just by waving his/her hand? Did you defeat Malak with one swing of the lightsaber? Were you able to run up against the rancor bare handed and kill it in one blow?? Let me know if you did, because you certainly weren't playing the same game I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky
How did Revan and the Exile defeat the entire Sith Empire waiting for them without uniting the galaxy?
We don't even know if they did defeat the empire, and it's likely that they haven't. One of the good things about this series is that nobody (minus the exile really) can walk into an army of about 100+ soldiers and come out without a scratch, and I doubt the exile would have such an easy time dispatching about 1000+ Force Users.

Quote:
What happened to their friends, and will they ever see them again?
Pretty much everyone who died in the first game if you went DS (minus Carth and Bastila) is assumed to be dead, at least that's what all the stats on their personal items you find scattered throughout TSL suggests.

Quote:
Will Revan ever explain why he did what he did to Mandalore,
He probably has no memory of doing that for one. And second, it is explained in TSL, he did it so that he could disband the Mandalorians so they would no longer be a threat (this is the reason the Republic believed he did it), and so that he could unite them under his control (the reason Kreia, I think it was, gave). Think of it this way, he did it to Handmaiden's father too, who was the leader of the Echani... The same two scenarios could be used to explain his reasoning for doing it to the Echani leader, as were given for him doing it to the Mandalorian leader.

Quote:
or if he and Bastila have a future.
Does it really matter that much? I personally don't see this to be as much of an important part of the story to be included in the third game.

Quote:
Will we ever see if Carth managed to make up with his son?
I have the same thing to say about this one, do we really need to know?

Quote:
Does the force, the binding power that "holds the galaxy together" apply outside the galaxy, where the Sith await?
huh? can you explain this, please?

Quote:
If Revan and/or the Exile fell defending their friends and planets I don't want some crappy holocron telling me "they're dead get on with the game". I want to be able to see it, or control them as they go down fighting gloriously blowing up hordes of space planes and cutting down everything till their last breath.
While I agree with you in that I want to "see" their death, I do not think they need to be included in much of the game in order to do this. Maybe a scene at the most, preferably at the VERY END of the game. However, I feel it would really make the game seem cheesy if they're standing there taking on thousands of sith without being phased. I want these fights to make sense, and NOBODY in real life can do that, so why should they be able to in this? Granted, it is a game, but still, I would hate to see Revan and the Exile made out to be gods in the third game.

Although, yeah, the Exile should be able to handle more than Revan as it is obvious he/she is FAR more powerful than Revan. I still don't want to see the two of them being in the middle of a bunch of sith and end up cutting everyone down with their lightsabers and such.

Quote:
If they won and survived, then I want to be there as well, and I don't want a datapad informing me " yes, yes Revan and the Exile beat everything in the unknown regions so get on with the game please". I want to be chopping things up beside them even if I don't get to control them.
Makes sense, but like I said, they should not be made to be 'gods'. I personally feel the last few battles before the boss (if Revan and the Exile do make it into these battles somehow) should rely more on strategy rather than "I'm going to take this thousand, you take that thousand, and we'll meet in the center!"


And think of it this way, if they *do* defeat the sith empire, there's no point in there actually being a third game, is there? My guess is that they have failed, and are either dead or captured.


If you want my honest opinion on this all; despite both Revan and the Exile being great characters, I have always felt they should both end up being martyrs in the end. I feel that they'll end up having to sacrifice themselves to protect the Republic and the Order, or everything they have ever stood for.


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:18 PM   #14
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i agree they should not be turned into gods but revan is one of the best, i just really like revan. i would not like to see him fight thousands of sith. battle a sith lord yes. i would like to see these ending the sith empire is crushed, the sith lord is dead, revana and the exile do battle to see who would control the galaxy, ill give one dead but not both!!!!


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Old 06-16-2006, 03:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_Cheez
Does it really matter that much? I personally don't see this to be as much of an important part of the story to be included in the third game.
Well, I for one would like to know what happened to their relationship after Revan left Known Space.

But about Dustil and Carth: We don't really need to know if they worked it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_cheez
huh? can you explain this, please?
Well, he is asking about the Force, and whether or not it exists in other galaxys. To answer that question, yes, because the Yuuzhan Vong were once Force-sensitive beings. They were removed from the Force when their homeworld was destroyed. So, yes, the Force does exist in other galaxys.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_cheez
While I agree with you in that I want to "see" their death, I do not think they need to be included in much of the game in order to do this.
I agree. Until:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_cheez
Maybe a scene at the most, preferably at the VERY END of the game.
I think that it would be better if the opening scene of the game is of Revan or the Exile being killed. That way, you would know what happened to them and that there is no way that you will meet them. Also, it gets rid of them faster. j/k.

Uh oh. I here comes the mob of Revan lovers.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_cheez
I have always felt they should both end up being martyrs in the end.
I agree, it would be a better ending for them if they die fighting to protect their friends (or lovers, in Revans case)

And it may seem like i do, but i dont hate Revan.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DarthOxyClean
Also, it gets rid of them faster. j/k.

Uh oh. I here comes the mob of Revan lovers.

lol.

yeah, I guess you're right with finding out they're dead early on, but can you really think of a star wars movie which begins with a flashback of a former main character being killed? Further, can you really see the next kotor game beginning with Revan or the Exile's death?? I sure can't.

Quote:
And it may seem like i do, but i dont hate Revan.
I don't hate Revan either for all of you out there who are reading this. To be quite honest, Revan is one of my favorite characters in the star wars universe (only rivaled by Kreia and the Exile). I just don't want to see Revan's character, nor the Exile's character ruined because a bunch of people want them to return in the third game when their stories are already pretty much over. I want the two of them to go down in Star Wars history as they are right now, whatever we as the players decided them to be. Not all of us want them to be incredibly hostile Sith Lords, not all of us want them to be righteous heroes. And I for one don't want them to end up fighting in the final battle unless MY Revan, or MY Exile would.

Truth be told, there are just too many possibilities to allow the developers to make Revan or the Exile EXACTLY like we have played them countless times before. I only hope that they allow us to choose our original character's motivations, their alignment, weapons, stuff like that. And then I don't want Revan or the Exile to show up until right at the end of the game. I want to play through the third game as a fresh new character, with absolutely no reason to be worried about either Revan or the Exile, and only at the very end will my choices throughout the game really matter.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I never played Revan as a badass who walks into a room and completely pwns everyone he meets. I played him more as a very calm, hero character who usually didn't do things heros should. Definetly not the type to suddenly decide to fight a bunch of Sith Lords spontaneously, and then get into a fight with the Exile over who will control the galaxy. What's more, my Exile always turned out to be more or less a lightside Sith who respects the Jedi Order. I would hate to see him as either a Jedi who wants the sith dead, or a Sith who wants to rule the galaxy.


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_Cheez
yeah, I guess you're right with finding out they're dead early on, but can you really think of a star wars movie which begins with a flashback of a former main character being killed?
And that is why we watch them die, and then....o what the heck, ill post my idea for the KOTOR 3 plot in this thread in a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_lord_Cheez
Further, can you really see the next kotor game beginning with Revan or the Exile's death?? I sure can't.
I can see it without the Exile. I mean, the Exile is a wound in the force, and the only way to reverse that is for him to die.

Uh oh. Here come the Exile lovers.



Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-17-2006, 01:41 AM   #18
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I only want to see Revan and the Exile return, only so they might suffer. I want to see them stripped of all honor, and dignity, twisted, tortured, and finally slain, by a power far greater than either of them.For all those wondering, I do hate Revan, he is a coward. I believe Lord Sion said it best "Our chance at an empire ruined by Revan, he had the opportunity to heal this broken galaxy, and make it strong, instead he chose to surrender it to weakness, and he ran away."

ALL HAIL LORD SION!


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Old 06-17-2006, 05:02 PM   #19
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I like the bit about the little kids i think you should be a kid at the strt & get older like on fable
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:21 PM   #20
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No, No kiddos please.
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:47 PM   #21
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I didn't really want to read that giant post, so the only thing I picked up was that you don't want K3 to have almost nothing to do with the prequels. Why? That seems pointless to me. Like others have said, they have to finish the story and let us know exactly what the threat Revan knows about is and if he beat it.


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Old 06-17-2006, 08:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DarthOxyClean
I can see it without the Exile. I mean, the Exile is a wound in the force, and the only way to reverse that is for him to die.
True. Personally, I would love it if the Exile died, mainly due to his wound nature. His character comes off to me as the martyr type. He and Revan both, actually. I could see either of them dying in the next game. I'll be happy as long as they both make an appearence. Dropping either charcter completely is a really bad idea.

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Old 06-18-2006, 11:35 AM   #23
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How many people in the Unknown Regions would have heard of Revan?



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Old 06-18-2006, 02:51 PM   #24
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I think Revan deserves that big death scene. Flash back, or recording of him/her robed up fighting to the death. The exile however should be found as only un-identifiable remains and a datapad. Gets rid of any problem about staying true to the previous game. I agree they should both die, but die heroes.

How about you find the Exile remains in a f*ck off Sith monster's stomach really near to the end of the game? To show how close he/she was before they died.

*EDIT*: Maybe there could be a tragic twist regarding their deaths. Just picture the end game scenario this time around. Like a series of ancient Sith chambers that have different tests and what-not.
Revan got to the location first. He/She has to give up their lightsaber to unlock some special hootnanny that opens the final door. He/She dies in the next room, overwhelmed by opponents.
Exile gets there second. Doesn't have to give up his/her weapons 'cause Revan has already got the hootnanny and proceeded to the next chamber. Exile can fight his/her way through the bad guys but gets to the final door and can't open it because he/she's hootnanny-less. Gets eaten by the beast that's in the second-to-last room.
When your character fights their way through, you unravel this story through datapads and stuff, and pick up the hootnanny on Revan's remains for the final confrontation.
Something similar, but better than that.

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Old 06-18-2006, 03:45 PM   #25
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great!!!

i really had a thought close to this one. its somehow related to the first two parts and it goes like this:

the whole story is about the true sith (i prefare to call them the real sith), the real sith have a secret weapon to destroy the jedi, and now its not a floating space station...its a person...you...yes, you will be the sith saviour, the sith'ari...and all these events in 1 and 2 were just to prepare you for your holy mission...so you'll start as a child surviving an air crush and you'll be found by the counsel of the real sith and you'll pass thier test, and get some missions...so you'll live during the period of the two parts and at the end you'll have plenty of choices...to fulfill your destiny as the sith'ari and kill revan and the exile(if they were good)...or to alter to the light side and destroy the sith...

what do you think? i guess this is an interesting idea since you will have the chance to get inside the society of the real sith...
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Old 06-18-2006, 04:49 PM   #26
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I believe that the "True Sith" are dead, and that when Traya tells you that the True Sith are in the unknown regions, she is referring to those that are actually Sith, not imposters... because as I recall, she says that right after she says that the machines and troopers are not "True Sith".


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Old 06-18-2006, 05:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Clone L68362
I didn't really want to read that giant post, so the only thing I picked up was that you don't want K3 to have almost nothing to do with the prequels. Why? That seems pointless to me. Like others have said, they have to finish the story and let us know exactly what the threat Revan knows about is and if he beat it.
My advice to you: read the big long post, it has a lot of points to it, and I believe it answers this question.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Korfredonn The Ecclesiastes
the whole story is about the true sith (i prefare to call them the real sith), the real sith have a secret weapon to destroy the jedi, and now its not a floating space station...its a person...you...yes, you will be the sith saviour, the sith'ari...and all these events in 1 and 2 were just to prepare you for your holy mission...so you'll start as a child surviving an air crush and you'll be found by the counsel of the real sith and you'll pass thier test, and get some missions...so you'll live during the period of the two parts and at the end you'll have plenty of choices...to fulfill your destiny as the sith'ari and kill revan and the exile(if they were good)...or to alter to the light side and destroy the sith...

what do you think? i guess this is an interesting idea since you will have the chance to get inside the society of the real sith...

Actually, this is really similar to my idea of how the story should go. Although, I hate to break it to all of you but I highly doubt we will start as a child in the third game (I can't really see why someone would want to anyway :/). The game engine that they have used for the first two games does not allow for any physical changes other than bodily decay if you go darkside. I HIGHLY doubt that Lucasarts is going to change the engine for the final installement (but who knows, I may be wrong... although I hope I'm not :\ ), starting as a child and aging to adulthood is a (near) definite 'no'. Also, think of how much story they would have to come up with if you're going to play through some kid's entire life... I don't know about you all, but I'd hang myself if I had to write 20+ years worth of storyline to be played through IN A VIDEOGAME!


I can see the third game beginning similar to the other two (you wake up as an adult, unclothed for some reason, and have to fight your way through a few waves of relatively easy opponents while taking the time to learn what each button does), I can't see you playing as a 5 year old and be thrown headfirst into this complex storyline from the very start.


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-18-2006, 07:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by woogiee
I know how you feel and also dont want to start as Revan or the Exile, it would be really hard to work into the game anyway I'd think.
This is my main objection. It would be quite hard to work in the third game without the other two story lines working for them. Its kinda like the Star Wars movie series. Accept more interesting and less character specific. Thats my opinion. Otherwise i'd love to Start out oblivious as a learner of the force with no knowledge of Revan or the Exile (although i am big fans of both of them XD). But my main problem would be the huge hole of "What happened to the Exile" or "How is Revan gonna reunite the Republic, where is he?" that is my problem.
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Old 06-18-2006, 09:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ExileRevan
This is my main objection. It would be quite hard to work in the third game without the other two story lines working for them. Its kinda like the Star Wars movie series. Accept more interesting and less character specific. Thats my opinion. Otherwise i'd love to Start out oblivious as a learner of the force with no knowledge of Revan or the Exile (although i am big fans of both of them XD). But my main problem would be the huge hole of "What happened to the Exile" or "How is Revan gonna reunite the Republic, where is he?" that is my problem.

Ah, but does the story need to be completely derrived from the other two in order to do this? TSL if you think about it, had barely anything to do with the first game (very little mention of the Star forge, and very few mentions on stuff that Revan actually did in the first game) and yet it answered the questions of what had happened to Revan and everything. I bet a good portion of fans would have never thought that Revan would just leave the known galaxy after the ending of K1. Keeping this in mind, is it so hard to comprehend the idea that you don't actually need to witness Revan and the Exile reuniting a galaxy, or even being in the story, in order to know that they did?

I mean afterall, you didn't actually see Revan talk to Carth and Bastila, then get into a ship and depart for the outer rim in the second game, why would you need to see something like that in the third one?


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:39 PM   #30
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I totally agree with the one who started the game. In my opinion, the storyline in Kotor II has made it very hard to continue the story proberly, without too much Clichés. Unfortunately.

Facts like the existance of the "True Sith" who wait in the outer rim don't allow to come up with anything else... which is a pity if you ask me. Basically, Kotor can be summarized like that:

In the first game, you fight the sith, a powerful force in the galaxy led by Dark Jedi, once founded by you.
In the second game, you fight what is left of the sith, which are even more powerful and threatening.

And now in the third game, you will finally fight the "True Sith", everything till now was just a "preparation" for their attack on the galaxy?
That makes me feel like everything which you have accomplished as the PC till now is just worthless, because those powerful beings, the True Sith intented it to be like that.
Also it is unlogical that a group so powerful that they can manipulate the galaxy has to wait decades until they finally attack...


Unfortunately the story can't be edited anymore, the best thing developers could do is to create a whole new story, years after Kotor, and just explain what happended after Kotor II (this is hard enough alrdy...personally i can't think of a fitting end)

Just my 2 cents
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Old 06-23-2006, 03:21 PM   #31
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I completely and utterly disagree. I am sorry, but KOTOR 2 was ended so a 3rd one would be made. Kreia specifically said, "You must gather up Sith and Jedi to go and help Revan...etc." whenever you beat her. Yes, I know no one is going to be happy with what happens in Kotor 3, someone is going to be pissed off but I am going to be angry if I do not get to finish a storyline.
Some questions that will never be finished such as, "Is Revan dead?" "Did Carth or Bastila ever find Revan?" "Does Atton ever have the balls to tell the Exile he loves her?" Etc. etc.
Games are in trilogies, this is like the 3rd installment. Every story comes in 3's in Star Wars, the first 3 were Anakin and the last 3 were about Luke but Anakin was still in the story.
I want K3 to close the chapter of Revan. I would like it to be a mixture of deaths of glorious characters like Mandalore and seeing some finally be happy and at peace with themselves such as Atton.
As for the droids, they should be around as long as the Kotor series is around.
And yes, I know that all the major Jedi are dead but the Handmaiden and Disciple are told in the future by Kreia that one is the chronicler and one like founds it so can you say, "Hello Corsucant?!" (hopefully). As for Mira, she dies helping people, I would like to see her die in K3 so perhaps she was a part of the new Jedi Order as well and comes with you and dies.
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Old 06-23-2006, 05:27 PM   #32
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phaedra's hit the nail on the head, what with kreia said. roll on KOTOR 3


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Old 06-23-2006, 06:04 PM   #33
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I agree with the main premise of this thread. I can see that it is time to move on. I think they should make a small ingame statement about Revan and Exile, but I don't think they should have a linguring storyline. After replaying the ending in my head, I can honestly say that 98% of the story was concluded. I think that the game should push towards finding the threat that Revan was going after, and you will learn of what had been his fate. Other than that, I don't see any more reason to keep Revan and Exile's stoy alive. It is time for a new legacy. It is time for a new Sith/Jedi story...
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Old 06-23-2006, 06:42 PM   #34
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Thumbs down Two words: Total BS

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Am I the only one around here who actually wants the third game to not entirely rely on the plots of the first 2 games?
Unfortunately, judging from some of the posts in this thread, it doesn't look that way.
Quote:
So let me reiterate my whole point: I want the third game to have next to nothing to do with the first 2. Look at the first game, did that have anything to do with the original or prequel trilogies?
Uhh, no, and it shouldn't, since it's FOUR THOUSAND YEARS before anyone in the prequel trilogy was born.
Quote:
And how much did the second really have to do with the first?
Quite a lot, since almost everything in TSL was a result of Revan's actions.
Quote:
So is it really so illogical to say that the third game should *not* have the Exile and Revan return until at the very earliest the very end?
Until you rephrase that intelligibly, I can't answer the question.
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That characters from the first two games should *not* rebuild the Jedi Order?
Yes. The last masters are all dead, and the only Jedi left are a couple stragglers, and unable to rebuild the order.
Quote:
That you should *not* start the game in an *already* rebuilt Jedi Order?
Yes. You can't just say "SHA-ZAM, the Jedi Order is back now!"
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I'm just worried that *too many* people have a different opinion than I do on the matter
And that is bad... How?
Quote:
and since this is a Lucas maintained site that whoever is making the next game might look at all our suggestions, see the ones which would probably detract from the series, and decide to use those ideas.
If you are referring to your idea as one which might detract from the series, you are quite correct.
Quote:
not become a sequel where everyone from the first two games returns
Having some of the previous characters would not be bad. It wasn't in TSL(If you are saying you don't want HK-47 & T3-M4 in KOTOR 3's party, then you are my sworn enemy).
Quote:
that would ruin the series in my honest opinion, and would be the final straw that would force me to give up on Lucasarts forever.
Lucasarts isn't making KOTOR 3, and it didn't make TSL or KOTOR 1 either.

It seems that, single-handedly, I have completely demolished your idiotic idea and exposed each and every flaw in its structure.


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Old 06-23-2006, 11:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TKA-001
<snip>
While your last line is a little harsh. I agree with the overal premisis of your post.


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Old 06-25-2006, 04:57 PM   #36
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I like the original post's idea. I think that, like the first two games, you should start out as a new pc, with a new party. Somewhere along the line you should figure out how the storyline of the game relates with revan or the exile. Then you should have to defeat the threat that Revan went to fight, maybe finding his body and finding how he died. Or, it could be cool if you meet up with Revan at the end of the game and then he dies heroicly in the final battle.


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Old 06-25-2006, 06:28 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by TKA-001
Unfortunately, judging from some of the posts in this thread, it doesn't look that way.
When I first made this thread I found that there was an excess of topics saying how much people wanted to play as Revan and/or the Exile. Also a lot of the topics wanted the entire story to revolve around the plots of Revan and the Exile, as opposed to starting a new one. I find it hard to see the third installment being as great a game as the other two were if the entire game revolves around Revan and the Exile's choices.

Quote:
Uhh, no, and it shouldn't, since it's FOUR THOUSAND YEARS before anyone in the prequel trilogy was born.
Does that stop people from trying to tie it into the Kotor series by creating new items such as "Skywalker saber" or "boba fett helmet" and implementing them into the game? Does that stop people from writing fanfictions about some Jedi with the last name Solo running around in Knights of the Old Republic times? Does that stop people from wishing that these two huge sagas were somehow connected? No, it doesn't. If people keep making it known that that's what they want, something to bridge the gap between the OT and the Knights series, how long do you think it will be until someone working on the third game goes "hmm.. maybe if we give them what they want, we'll sell more copies!"?

My point originally was that the first game had nothing to do with the Prequel Trilogy, nor the OT. The second game had little to do with the first game. So why should the third game revolve around Revan and the Exile?

Quote:
Quite a lot, since almost everything in TSL was a result of Revan's actions.
Really? Was Revan in this game? Did we have any drastic difference in gameplay if Revan went Darkside as opposed to Light? Was the Exile in the first game at all?

The Sith Lords was a result of the Wars waged throughout the Republic before the first game, not directly altered by choices you made in the first game.

Yes, Telos was attacked during the Jedi Civil Wars which *were* a result of Revan's choice... but did you and I actually make that choice in the first game? Narshadaa became a home for refugees after the Mandalorian Wars, did you and I choose to fight in the Mandalorian Wars as Revan??

How many things in the second game were really dependant on a choice that Revan made? Telos was out of our control, Dantoine would have been attacked by the sith regardless of what we told Saul during his interrogation of Revan, Korriban became a graveyard for Sith again regardless of if we chose to go darkside or not.


All I see whenever I play TSL is a Republic on the verge of collapse, both hoping and fearing the return of Revan. The backstory of the game doesn't rely on the first game, it relies on the Mandalorian wars, which occurs BEFORE the first game. And it relies on Revan's departure which happens AFTER the first game.


So, I'll ask the question again: How much does TSL really rely on the first game?

Quote:
Until you rephrase that intelligibly, I can't answer the question.
Alright, I'll put it my question into a nicer form:

Is it really such a stupid idea to not have Revan and/or the Exile in the third game?

Quote:
Yes. The last masters are all dead, and the only Jedi left are a couple stragglers, and unable to rebuild the order.
My point exactly, which is why I feel a sense of dread everytime someone says they want the Jedi Order rebuilt at the beginning of the next one, with the Handmaiden as the chronicler or something.

Quote:
Yes. You can't just say "SHA-ZAM, the Jedi Order is back now!"
See above

Quote:
And that is bad... How?
You cut me off mid-sentence on this one, this goes along with the next thing you quoted.

Quote:
If you are referring to your idea as one which might detract from the series, you are quite correct.
So it wouldn't detract from the series to start off in a magically rebuilt Jedi Enclave in Coruscant? I think you just contradicted yourself there.

I'm against that idea, you agreed with me, and then you disagreed with me..

Quote:
Having some of the previous characters would not be bad. It wasn't in TSL(If you are saying you don't want HK-47 & T3-M4 in KOTOR 3's party, then you are my sworn enemy).
No, I agree with you on this. What I hope we all don't get stuck with however is having Carth, Bastila, Atton, Handmaiden etc. returning to our party just for the sake of trying to tie the first two games together.

Quote:
Lucasarts isn't making KOTOR 3, and it didn't make TSL or KOTOR 1 either.
True, but they are the ones providing the money and timetable for this game. Besides that George Lucas, from what I have come to understand, oversees absolutely everything Star Wars related down to the very last word. He's the one who gives final approval on what goes into the games, despite not creating them himself. He still has the authority to change anything that he doesn't approve on, however nowadays he tends to approve (what I believe to be anyway) a lot of very poor games. I haven't enjoyed anything the company has put out for a while, minus the Knights series. I'd just hate to have my last bit of trust in this company shaken by a game that tries way too hard to connect itself to the first two games.

Quote:
It seems that, single-handedly, I have completely demolished your idiotic idea and exposed each and every flaw in its structure.
It seems that I have single-handedly countered your attempt to squash my arguement. Maybe next time you should not be so hasty to judge an idea that may seem "idiotic" to you.


This entire topic revolves around the idea that the third game should be involved with the other two games, but it should not *revolve* around the choices you have made in the previous two. It doesn't in anyway suggest that the third game should take place 5000 years after the OT or anything absurd like that... but I don't think it should have everyone from the first two games returning and getting into this massive battle against the "True Sith".

Just my 2 cents. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I fully welcome any and all contradiction to my idea. Just please, no more bashing of anyone's ideas, alright? Don't want to get the moderators to lock up this topic, so let's keep this a nice, peaceful, topic, shall we?


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-25-2006, 08:35 PM   #38
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Post

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Does that stop people from trying to tie it into the Kotor series by creating new items such as "Skywalker saber" or "boba fett helmet" and implementing them into the game? Does that stop people from writing fanfictions about some Jedi with the last name Solo running around in Knights of the Old Republic times? Does that stop people from wishing that these two huge sagas were somehow connected?
It doesn't even matter what fan fictions or mods are made.

Quote:
Really? Was Revan in this game?
No, and it doesn't matter if he was.

Quote:
Did we have any drastic difference in gameplay if Revan went Darkside as opposed to Light?
No. I was referring to his actions overall. Light or dark, Revan killed Malak, demolished the Sith Empire in KOTOR 1, ect.

Quote:
Was the Exile in the first game at all?
First of all, what's your point by bringing this up? Second, no, because he wasn't created yet.

Quote:
The second game had little to do with the first game.
I stated previously why It does have plenty to do.

Quote:
Is it really such a stupid idea to not have Revan and/or the Exile in the third game?
Doesn't need the Exile, but Revan is needed.

Quote:
My point exactly, which is why I feel a sense of dread everytime someone says they want the Jedi Order rebuilt at the beginning of the next one, with the Handmaiden as the chronicler or something.
My point is that no one else could rebuild the order.

Quote:
So it wouldn't detract from the series to start off in a magically rebuilt Jedi Enclave in Coruscant? I think you just contradicted yourself there.
I'm against that idea, you agreed with me, and then you disagreed with me..
How did i contradict myself? I said that you were wrong. You should pay attention to what whoever you're talking to is saying.

Quote:
No, I agree with you on this. What I hope we all don't get stuck with however is having Carth, Bastila, Atton, Handmaiden etc. returning to our party just for the sake of trying to tie the first two games together.
Really, what are the chances of having members from the previous games in your party (not counting Hk-47, since it's not KOTOR without him)?

Quote:
just hate to have my last bit of trust in this company shaken by a game that tries way too hard to connect itself to the first two games.
How are they trying to connect the KOTOR series to the movies other than the fact that it's Star Wars. Well, there is the couple of people with certain last names.

Quote:
but I don't think it should have everyone from the first two games returning and getting into this massive battle against the "True Sith".
Having some big war with the "True Sith" is what obviously should happen, and can't be avoided with an incredibly stupid plot hole.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

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Old 06-26-2006, 12:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by TKA-001
No, and it doesn't matter if he was.
It matters to the point of this topic. Revan wasn't in the second game, why should he/she be in the third one?


Quote:
No. I was referring to his actions overall. Light or dark, Revan killed Malak, demolished the Sith Empire in KOTOR 1, ect.
So how does this make TSL revolve around the plot of the first game? Regardless of whether or not Revan defeated Malak, there is still a new threat that needs to be taken care of. Sion, Nihillus, nor Kreia have any real ties to the events of the first game. Why does the third game need a storyline centered around the events of the first two?


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First of all, what's your point by bringing this up? Second, no, because he wasn't created yet.
My point is that you seem dead-set on having characters who are central to the plot of the second and first games returning for the third. Either that or you just enjoy starting up an arguement no matter what I say (not that I'm complaining, mind you). In case it hasn't become abundantly clear by now, my whole arguement is centered around the idea that TSL (minus the background concerning Revan, which if you think about it, doesn't really play as much of a role in the second game as you believe it does) has very little to do with the first game... so why does the third game have to be a complete continuation of the second? The second game didn't start with you playing as Revan at the head of an armada, nor did you start as a hero to the galaxy. You started as an outcast Jedi who was hunted by just about everyone in known space... The second game didn't continue the first's storyline, why does the third need to? Plot holes? Didn't you wonder where Revan went when you first found out he/she wasn't in the second game? They filled up those plot holes with just an easy going conversation at the start of the game, what's to say they can't do the same for the third?

I'm not saying that the "True Sith" shouldn't be in the next game, but there are other ways of incorperating a plot then bringing in the Exile, and Revan, and every other important character we've met over the course of the previous two games.

Who knows, you could start the game off as a Republic officer who is on an outpost on an outer rim world, when the planet your on comes under attack by the "True Sith", and you have to warn the Republic of this new threat. You learn the ways of the force from a crazy hermit (IMO, preferably someone we haven't met yet), and you find yourself locked in a battle aboard a capital ship with the boss character.

You could be a smuggler who's ship is gunned down over an unkown world, and you have to escape the planet because the locals want you dead. You wind up chased all around the crumbled Republic by this new race, you learn the force from some Jedi warrior who just happens to be in the same vicinity as you when they attack (again, it doesn't have to be someone we know already. The order is scattered, there may not be many Jedi left, but no one knows how many exactly there are. Kreia only kills the masters), and at the end of it all you decide to fight back. You end up killing their leader and restoring peace to the galaxy, or whatnot... who knows. The plot does not need to consist of Revan or the Exile.


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I stated previously why It does have plenty to do.
Well, just so we're on the same page, why don't you list everything that Revan has done which directly affects the Exile's actions. And I mean choices that Revan made in the first game. (I know of the whole killing Malak thing, but like I said before, none of the sith lords in the second had anything to do with Malak. Nor did anything that really affected the exile have anything to do with Malak's death, so were there other important things you'd like to list?)


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Doesn't need the Exile, but Revan is needed.
Why?


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My point is that no one else could rebuild the order.
well how can a bunch of "children with lightsabers" rebuild a Jedi Order?


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How did i contradict myself? I said that you were wrong. You should pay attention to what whoever you're talking to is saying.
I think you should try and make your responses a bit clearer.

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That you should *not* start the game in an *already* rebuilt Jedi Order?
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Yes. You can't just say "SHA-ZAM, the Jedi Order is back now!"
After reading those two responses it is a bit easy to think you meant "Yes, I agree. After the Jedi Order being scattered in the second game, it is unlikely that it will magically be rebuilt by the third game".


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Really, what are the chances of having members from the previous games in your party (not counting Hk-47, since it's not KOTOR without him)?
Pretty good seeing as we got Canderous back in the second. (which really wasn't as great as I thought it would be)


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How are they trying to connect the KOTOR series to the movies other than the fact that it's Star Wars. Well, there is the couple of people with certain last names.
How did you jump from me talking about connecting the two games to the third to connecting the movies with the games? 0o


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Having some big war with the "True Sith" is what obviously should happen, and can't be avoided with an incredibly stupid plot hole.
That all depends on what you would call a "stupid plot hole". Some saw Revan leaving as "stupid". Some thought the Exile's force wound as "stupid". It's obvious you view the idea of Revan nor the Exile being in the third game as "stupid". What is "stupid" and what is not is really only in the eyes of the beholder.

I can think of countless people who thought Episode III was horrible, and yet I can think of countless people who thought it was the greatest movie ever. What you may hate, other's may like, and what you may like others may hate. Before you turn this statment against me, I really have no problem with anyone else's ideas. They're all opinions, and I have my own opinions on the subject as well. However I didn't agree with their opinions, so I started my own topic which aimed to discuss what I felt should be in the third game.

I don't remember seeing a topic posted by you on what you think the third game should be about, (although I haven't browsed this section of the forums in a while) so why not make a topic detailing your own views on the matter. I'm sure it'd be interesting to hear your take on what the plot of K3 should be, or what it shouldn't be... so why not tell us your ideas?


"Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?" - Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)
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Old 06-26-2006, 01:22 AM   #40
Clone L68362
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Originally Posted by Jabba da Butt
I like the original post's idea. I think that, like the first two games, you should start out as a new pc, with a new party. Somewhere along the line you should figure out how the storyline of the game relates with revan or the exile. Then you should have to defeat the threat that Revan went to fight, maybe finding his body and finding how he died. Or, it could be cool if you meet up with Revan at the end of the game and then he dies heroicly in the final battle.

See, this is why I don't understand the original post, or anyone else agreeing with the original poster. Even if you hope that K3 moves on with the story and ditches the Exile and Revan, a story like that one above does JUST THE OPPOSITE.


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