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Old 06-18-2006, 11:09 AM   #1
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The Sith RACE

Quote:
It was to Korriban that the ancient Dark Jedi fled after they were exiled by the Jedi Knights during the Second Great Schism [7,000 BBY]. Korriban was originally inhabited by the Sith race, a relatively simple, red-skinned people. The Dark Jedi amazed the Sith with their training in the Force, and soon elevated themselves to a god-like status, becoming the rulers, or "Lords," of the Sith. As the years passed, interbreeding occurred between the human Dark Jedi and the Sith, until at last the two people had become one.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korriban

Couldn't these red-skinned people be considered the 'true sith'?

Last edited by tbl1; 06-18-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 06-18-2006, 01:22 PM   #2
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Exactly. I remember this text from Star Wars: Behind the Magic.

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Old 06-18-2006, 02:33 PM   #3
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Maybe but they sound a bit... crap.
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Old 06-18-2006, 03:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korriban

Couldn't these red-skinned people be considered the 'true sith'?
They definitly could. Read this from wookiepedia:

Quote:
The "True Sith" were a shadowy and largely unknown order of Dark Side users that according to Kreia, had been in existance for "tens of thousands of years," and were silently waiting in the Unknown Regions, during the time of the Jedi Civil War.

According to Kreia, the so-called "True Sith" were millenia older than the Old Sith Empire. She and Revan believed that it was they who goaded the Mandalorians into attacking the Republic. She stated that both Malachor V and the graveyard planet Korriban had once been planets held at the edges of that mysterious empire, and that while these "true Sith" had forgotten those ancient worlds of the Dark Side, they would remember.

Following the Jedi Civil War, Revan vanished from known space, supposedly to fight this order.
The True Sith were a millenia older than the Old Sith Empire. The Old Sith Empire was around 7,000 BBY. And the True Sith were (suposedly) around before those Dark Jedi landed on Korriban. So (if this info is correct) the red-skinned Sith can not be the True Sith. But that still leaves us with the question of who they really are.

Maybe the red-skinned Sith on Korriban and Ziost were descendants of a space-faring race of Dark Jedi?

There was also a Dark Jedi named Adas, who lived around 28,000 BBY:

Quote:
Ood Bnar says Adas lived "more than two dozen millennia ago." The Old Sith Empire was established by fallen Jedi Knights around 6,900 BBY, which would preclude Adas having been part of this regime.

However, given the age of the "True Sith Empire"—established in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords as being tens of millennia older than the current Sith Order—it's strongly probable that Adas instead belonged to this more ancient group.
Not much else about him though. He might have been part of the True Sith.

I really think that we will have to wait for KOTOR 3 to answer this.


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Old 06-18-2006, 11:58 PM   #5
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Trust wikipedia, I would not!


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Old 06-19-2006, 12:00 AM   #6
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It's pretty hard to make up stuff on the wikipedia. they do a good joob.
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Old 06-19-2006, 12:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
It's pretty hard to make up stuff on the wikipedia. they do a good joob.
I disagree... as it can be edited by anyone. No, I just don't see it that way.

Edit: To below Post.... *sigh* Some people will believe anything as long as it feeds their desperate need for 'fluff' on all things Star Wars.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Last edited by RedHawke; 06-19-2006 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 12:15 AM   #8
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Trust Wookieepedia, I would.


4 / / Itchy. Tasty.
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Old 06-19-2006, 01:17 AM   #9
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The planets controlled by that sith empire:
Ambria
Arkania
Ashas Ree
Athiss
Ch'hodos
Dromund Kaas
Jaguada
Jaguada's moon
Kalsunor
Khar Delba
Khar Shian
Korriban
Korriz
Krayiss II
Malachor V
Rhelg
Thule
Sivvi
Vjun
Ziost


***
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
I disagree... as it can be edited by anyone. No, I just don't see it that way.
Try changing something on the wikipedia to something you know is incorrect.
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Old 06-19-2006, 01:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
Try changing something on the wikipedia to something you know is incorrect.
It isn't a good source of information... while I do agree you have your right to your opinion on this, why can't you all accept mine and move on.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:01 AM   #11
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Your point of view is very valid and many people do feel the same way. I didn't really want to argue about the wikipedia.
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:02 AM   #12
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Goshdarnit, how come every time I post something, the thread goes off-topic?!?!?


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Trust wikipedia, I would not!
You are wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
It's pretty hard to make up stuff on the wikipedia. they do a good job.
Are you kidding? It is easy to make stuff up, and it happens all the time:

http://www.aspendailynews.com/article_14537
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1657588.cms
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19501894-2,00.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06...e_your_grades/
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...wikis0610.html
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/chan...contentid=3569
etc.

Even it's creator says that it can't always be trusted.
http://www.trimmail.com/news/elsewhe...1150480413.24/

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
Trust Wookieepedia, I would.
Wookiepedia is really fanon. While it can be a useful site to get the general idea about a topic, it can't be trusted to provide a canon source of information. Just look at the amount of editing and arguments that go on there over what is correct (you can start at Recent Changes). A lot of the time it is just fan speculation without any solid supporting evidence.

Here is just one of many examples.

Actually, I would suggest that the Unofficial Encyclopedia is a better source, since at least there each entry comes from specific cited sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tb1
Try changing something on the wikipedia to something you know is incorrect.
As I pointed out above, this happens constantly, and can remain incorrect for months before it is corrected, if it is at all.

On-topic: But why isn't some like Palpatine or others not considered "True Sith"? The Sith order has evolved and tranformed many times. Why is one form more true than another?

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Old 06-19-2006, 09:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
You are wise.
Why thank you!

Debated the authenticity of wikipedia before I see!


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 06-20-2006, 12:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
The "True Sith" were a shadowy and largely unknown order of Dark Side users that according to Kreia, had been in existance for "tens of thousands of years," and were silently waiting in the Unknown Regions, during the time of the Jedi Civil War.

According to Kreia, the so-called "True Sith" were millenia older than the Old Sith Empire. She and Revan believed that it was they who goaded the Mandalorians into attacking the Republic. She stated that both Malachor V and the graveyard planet Korriban had once been planets held at the edges of that mysterious empire, and that while these "true Sith" had forgotten those ancient worlds of the Dark Side, they would remember.

Following the Jedi Civil War, Revan vanished from known space, supposedly to fight this order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Trust wikipedia, I would not!
Trust Kreia I would not!


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Old 06-20-2006, 02:33 AM   #16
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This is going to be the last thing I'm going to say about the wikipedia:
wikipedia for star wars - why not? Is it any less reliable than any other information wirten by the public? Find more than one thing about KOTOR on the wikipedia that is undisputably wrong. The plot summaries are written by users on IMDB as with the episode synopsis on TV.com.
Of course I would not use it as a source for an essay.
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Old 06-20-2006, 12:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Debated the authenticity of wikipedia before I see!
No really. I just put "wikipedia" in the google news search. That brings a whole bunch of stuff up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
wikipedia for star wars - why not? Is it any less reliable than any other information wirten by the public?
Who cares? The fact it is written by the public shows why it can't be trusted in the first place!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbl1
Find more than one thing about KOTOR on the wikipedia that is undisputably wrong.
Sith'ari - Anakin cannot be the Sith'ari as I explained in the Sith'ari thread, for starters.

But why get us to do it for you? Pick a bunch of entries and go to the discussions tabs. There you will see all the debates about what gets added. Sometimes there will be flat out errors argued over, and others times is clear that someone adds stuff with no supporting evidence, and people call them on it.

The point is, at any one time there are tons of errors and unsupported statements on wookieepedia, and thus can't be relied on for accurate canon info.

EDIT: John Ostrander (writer of the Legacy series) on TheForce.net regarding the Imperial Knights:

"Wookiepedia has it wrong. When the Jedi fled to Ossus, the offer was made for them to serve the Empire as the IK do. The involvement of Sith precluded that. Issue 1 will throw some light on your speculations."


Last edited by Prime; 06-20-2006 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:00 PM   #18
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^Touche.
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Old 06-20-2006, 10:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
It isn't a good source of information... while I do agree you have your right to your opinion on this, why can't you all accept mine and move on.
While Wiki isn't perfect. I remember read an article stating that Wiki average 7 inconsistencies per article and the Online Encyclopedia Britannica averages 8.


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Old 06-21-2006, 02:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
While Wiki isn't perfect. I remember read an article stating that Wiki average 7 inconsistencies per article and the Online Encyclopedia Britannica averages 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Wikipedia, and especially Wookieepedia, might have a comparable number of errors to a standard encyclopedia, but they have way more conjecture and opinions. Much of the stuff on there might not be technically wrong in the sense that there is hard proof against it, but in many cases there isn't any evidence supporting it either.
(Again Prime saves me some typing... Thanks Prime! )


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:19 AM   #21
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remember the ancient droid in kotor1 and what he said about star forge i think the true sith made star forge
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:26 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hormoz111
remember the ancient droid in kotor1 and what he said about star forge i think the true sith made star forge
Its made abundantly clear in the first game, that the Star Forge was created by the Rakata, and not the True Sith.


"Have you come here for answers? There are none. The call of Korriban is strong, but it is the call of the dead. It is fitting you came here."

"The failure is yours, no longer does your voice whisper within my skull, no longer do I suffer beneath teachings that weaken us, and now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead....save one, and one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness that is to come."
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Old 06-21-2006, 12:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
(Again Prime saves me some typing... Thanks Prime! )
Anytime.

I'm not saying wiki/wookieepedia is complete **** (although sometimes it is ), I'm just saying that you have to be aware that it isn't always entirely correct. It is important to also look at the discussion and history sections as well to see where the information came from.

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Old 06-21-2006, 01:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
I'm not saying wiki/wookieepedia is complete **** (although sometimes it is ), I'm just saying that you have to be aware that it isn't always entirely correct. It is important to also look at the discussion and history sections as well to see where the information came from.
I agree. After my post led to this thread going off-topic, I went to Wookiepedia and read many articles. Much of the information I found there made me sit there and say YEAH RIGHT. If you read through some of their artiles, it is quite easy to find false info. They are usually near the end of the article. But some articles (i.e. Adas) are completely false.

But I think that you can get more info (even if it is false) about Star Wars on Wookiepedia than StarWars.com. Starwars.com mostly focuses on the films, while many fans would like to get the general info about EU characters without having to go buy the book/game. (I know that they have a whole section on EU, but alot of the EU info is not there, and many articles are unfinished) Now, many will argue that the reason for Starwars.com focusing on films is because EU is not canon, and the films are. Well, if LucasFilms, Lucasarts, or LucasBooks creates a character/event/etc, then it is canon. That includes the Clone Wars miniseries, because Lucas approved the idea and created the plot for it. BS like Infinities is not canon.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Trust wikipedia, I would not!
Agreed.

On the Kreia note: I don't remember any mention of a Sith Race. Sounds like more EU invention. From what I understand, the Sith are fallen Jedi who come from a divirsity of species.

Novel/Game Canon vrs. Movie Canon
I hate when novels go against what is established in movies. Gr...

My point of view: What is developed on the big screen is main canon, and it is the foundation to the Star Wars universe. Anything that contridicts the movies, I don't consider it to hold any weight on Lucas's vision. What is developed for games and novels, I consider them to hold no weight on the overall picture. Game/Novel canon is like another dimension, which is entertaining in its own right. However, I don't take what I read/see in novels or games as a legit historical record on Star Wars. This is just my opinion.

EU writter are very creative and entertaining, but they hold no bearing on my movie perspective.

Sith species. What the hell were they thinking.
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp
On the Kreia note: I don't remember any mention of a Sith Race. Sounds like more EU invention.
More like a Wiki invention.

Speaking of false Wiki:

Who here believes that Darth Plageus was a Muun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookiepedia
Darth Plagueis, sometimes referred to as Darth Plagueis the Wise, was a Muun Dark Lord of the Sith, heir to the lineage of Darth Bane, who lived during the century leading up to the Battle of Naboo.
Anybody?


I didn't think so.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:43 PM   #27
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i rode something that said darth plagus was the master of the sidouos you may have said it in the last posts but i dont know because i did not read much of it
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Old 06-21-2006, 06:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hormoz111
i rode something that said darth plagus was the master of the sidouos you may have said it in the last posts but i dont know because i did not read much of it
Well, yes, Darth Plageus was the master of Darth Sidious. That was told in the movie, which means it is canonical, or true.

But Wookiepedia says that Plageus was a Muun, like San Hill. I said that that was false. But then I read this on StarWars.com:

"In 2008, readers will learn more. James Luceno, author of the bestselling Cloak of Deception and Darth Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, has been contracted by Del Rey Books to write a novel about Darth Sidious and his Muun mentor, Darth Plagueis. As is to be expected on all matters of the Sith, details remain obscured by the shadow of the dark side, but in time, more will be revealed.

Luceno's as yet untitled book is scheduled for hardcover release in 2008.
"

This article is the source of the "Plageus-Muun" rumors, and that information about Plageus was released with the announcement of the book. So, I was wrong, and Wookiepedia was right. But thare are still many articles with false information on Wookiepedia.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 06:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthOxyClean
Well, yes, Darth Plageus was the master of Darth Sidious. That was told in the movie, which means it is canonical, or true.
Where?
It was not clearly mentioned in the movie; however, Palpatine's expressions hinted to a connection. I think it was mentioned in a movie companion book.
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp
Where?
It was not clearly mentioned in the movie; however, Palpatine's expressions hinted to a connection. I think it was mentioned in a movie companion book.
It was mentioned by Palpatine in the movie, but of course, he may have been lying. But it was also told by Luceno in all three of his Revenge of the Sith tie-in books, which are canonical. The books and plageus mentions:

Labyrinth of Evil:

Page 178: "Of his youth, Sidious had offered little these past thirteen years; of his master, Darth Plageus, even less."

Revenge of the Sith: Words that confirm Darth Sidious' apprenticeship to Darth Plagueis are shown, but I don't have a copy of the book, i have read it though.


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:07 PM   #31
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Dark Lord:

Page 176: "Sidious didn't have to imagine the content of the Sith Holocrons, because Sidious's own master, Darth Plageus, had once allowed Sidious to access the actual Holocrons."

Page 179: "Into his thoughts came the words of Darth Plageus."

Page 303: "Sidious could still hear Darth Plageus lecturing him. Envy, hatred, betrayal... They were essential to mastering the Dark Side, but only as a means of distancing oneself from all common notions of morality in the interest of a higher goal. Only when Sidious had understood this fully had he acted on it, killing his master while he slept. Unlike Plageus, Sidious knew better than to sleep. More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to Sidious's Mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plageus had spent a lifetime seeking-the power of life over death."

All three of these books are official movie tie-ins, therefore making them canonical. And all of the quotes above come directly from the books I have sitting right in front of me.

Plus, if they are making a book about Plageus, then he is obviously canonical.

(could someone combine my post above with this one? my computer won't post it all in one post again!!! sorry!!!)


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:57 PM   #32
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Agreed.

On the Kreia note: I don't remember any mention of a Sith Race. Sounds like more EU invention. From what I understand, the Sith are fallen Jedi who come from a divirsity of species.

Novel/Game Canon vrs. Movie Canon
I hate when novels go against what is established in movies. Gr...

My point of view: What is developed on the big screen is main canon, and it is the foundation to the Star Wars universe. Anything that contridicts the movies, I don't consider it to hold any weight on Lucas's vision. What is developed for games and novels, I consider them to hold no weight on the overall picture. Game/Novel canon is like another dimension, which is entertaining in its own right. However, I don't take what I read/see in novels or games as a legit historical record on Star Wars. This is just my opinion.

EU writter are very creative and entertaining, but they hold no bearing on my movie perspective.

Sith species. What the hell were they thinking.
So what do you do when the movies contradict themselves?

Such as when Luke asks Leia about her mother. Yet in EP III Padame dies in child birth.


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Old 06-21-2006, 08:27 PM   #33
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So what do you do when the movies contradict themselves?

Such as when Luke asks Leia about her mother. Yet in EP III Padame dies in child birth.
Leia remembers her mother's smile. In Episode III, Obi-Wan holds Leia up to Padme, and Padme smiles and names her Leia. Then she dies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeodCorp
My point of view: What is developed on the big screen is main canon, and it is the foundation to the Star Wars universe. Anything that contridicts the movies, I don't consider it to hold any weight on Lucas's vision. What is developed for games and novels, I consider them to hold no weight on the overall picture. Game/Novel canon is like another dimension, which is entertaining in its own right. However, I don't take what I read/see in novels or games as a legit historical record on Star Wars. This is just my opinion.
If LucasArts, LucasFilm, or LucasBooks created it, then it is historically correct, because all ideas go through George Lucas, who then has to approve the creation before the creation goes out to the world. At least, that is the case with LucasBooks and LucasFilm, and I remember reading somewhere that George Lucas also has to approve any LucasArts game. I know he helped with the Monkey Island project as well as the Star Wars games.

The Infinities and Marvel Star Wars brands had nothing to do with Lucas, and therefore they are not considered canon.

And the things that Lucas approve of never contradict the movies, unless he accidentally misses something.

Don't get me wrong McLeodCorp, I respect your opinion. My opinion is that all of the things that Lucas approves is canon.


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Old 06-21-2006, 08:57 PM   #34
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Leia remembers her mother's smile. In Episode III, Obi-Wan holds Leia up to Padme, and Padme smiles and names her Leia. Then she dies.
There is no way in **** a newborn will remember anything. Its' brain is way too underdeveloped to do such a thing.


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Old 06-21-2006, 09:06 PM   #35
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There is no way in **** a newborn will remember anything. Its' brain is way too underdeveloped to do such a thing.
Hey, don't start yellin at me, Lucas is the one who came up with it.

Plus, Leia has a deep connection with the Force. Thus, good memory.


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Old 06-21-2006, 11:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthOxyClean
Hey, don't start yellin at me, Lucas is the one who came up with it.

Plus, Leia has a deep connection with the Force. Thus, good memory.
I agree that babies' brains are too immature to remember, even if they're Force gifted. I just thought it was a small continuity error--with that many movies, it's nearly impossible not to have something wrong somewhere. No biggie, since it doesn't fundamentally alter the overall story.


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Old 06-22-2006, 09:46 AM   #37
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At least continuity errors gives us something to make fun of.

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Old 06-22-2006, 01:10 PM   #38
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At least continuity errors gives us something to make fun of.
More like criticize.


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Old 06-22-2006, 02:14 PM   #39
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this whole ''To trust, or not to trust wikipedia, that is the question'' off-topic topic started when RedHawke expressed his disbelief in the text from the first post of this thread. Now, I really have no idea how accurate wikipedia is and I really don't want to get into a debate about it, but I do know that the text from the first post is true, since it is originally from Star Wars: Behind the Magic interactive 2-disc set, which is a LucasArts release.

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Old 06-23-2006, 12:05 AM   #40
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^^^^
I didn't mean to take the thread off-topic, but when people start making out somthing like wiki info to be something to be trusted I tend to feel a need to educate.


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