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Old 08-04-2006, 01:27 AM   #281
DarthAve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Mole
I was insulting Malan.

Jesus Christ.

Good job trying to make a couple of dumb comments a personal issue.
Well, don't be hatin.
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Old 08-04-2006, 02:54 PM   #282
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What program are you using, K-Jo? I need a good free Gif editor/creator.
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Old 08-04-2006, 03:35 PM   #283
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I use image ready, but that's obviously not free, maybe K-jo can enlighten you. We'll have to wait and see.

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Old 08-04-2006, 09:12 PM   #284
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I use Jasc Animation Shop. It's not freeware, though, Unless you get it the way I did: From a friend.


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Old 08-04-2006, 10:32 PM   #285
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It's a little hard to tell that the middle one is LeChuck, still fascinating nonetheless.

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Old 08-04-2006, 10:34 PM   #286
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GIMP is free, wonderfully enough I got CS2 from a friend.
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:25 AM   #287
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Animated extravaganza:


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Old 08-05-2006, 11:42 AM   #288
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I downloaded GIMP, but I can't figure out how to make animations with it yet... although I found a fractal explorer so I'm happy. Literally hours Months of fun.
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:46 AM   #289
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Try using GIMPShop which is GIMP with an interface like Photoshop.

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Old 08-05-2006, 12:21 PM   #290
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Yeah, but Photoshop isn't used for animations, it's alter ego Image Ready is, I'm not sure if the GIMP can do animations... then again, I hardly use it, so what do I know.

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Old 08-05-2006, 07:07 PM   #291
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I think that all illustrator/photo manipulation programs should keep the tool panels ontop... I can't get used to having to go to the taskbar all the time with the GIMP. I'll stick with dogwaffle for now, although with dogwaffle there are too many toolbars, you start to struggle to see the actual image. I need a bigger monitor.
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Old 08-05-2006, 07:48 PM   #292
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I bought Photoshop yesterday and am already in love with it.

The layers thing confuses me, but I've only really been doing easy stuff like changing eye color and whatnot.

Photoshop = Less than three
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Old 08-05-2006, 08:02 PM   #293
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You bought Photoshop? I'm lucky, I get mine at student prices and even then it's freaking expensive? What bank did you rob to get it?

Tis the dogs B's though. I've been using it in all it's incarnations since version 5 and I'm totally in love with it. If you're confused about layers Das, just give me a PM, I've used up to and over 50 in a single image.

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Old 08-05-2006, 08:16 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
You bought Photoshop? I'm lucky, I get mine at student prices and even then it's freaking expensive? What bank did you rob to get it?

Tis the dogs B's though. I've been using it in all it's incarnations since version 5 and I'm totally in love with it. If you're confused about layers Das, just give me a PM, I've used up to and over 50 in a single image.
That must've cost a lot of money considering Curso De Photoshop...


I'm done putting links in my signature because every time I do it just links to some old crap I've long since stopped updating.
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Old 08-05-2006, 08:20 PM   #295
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You bought Photoshop? I'm lucky, I get mine at student prices and even then it's freaking expensive? What bank did you rob to get it?
It was only $100 at Best Buy. It's Photoshop Elements 4.0, if that makes any difference.
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Old 08-06-2006, 09:22 AM   #296
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Yes, it does, Elements it's the lighter verson of actual Photoshop, thus explaining why it's cheaper. Adobe photoshop CS retails at about £500 if you're lucky.

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Old 08-06-2006, 09:38 AM   #297
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Holy crap, illegal downloads pay off... I wish I had enough to get CS2 but its a complete rip off. It costs them less than £50 to make.
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Old 08-06-2006, 03:33 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
I'm not sure if the GIMP can do animations...
It can. Just open an animated GIF and see how it's done (hint: layers).




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Old 08-06-2006, 04:39 PM   #299
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Quote:
Yes, it does, Elements it's the lighter verson of actual Photoshop, thus explaining why it's cheaper. Adobe photoshop CS retails at about £500 if you're lucky.
I don't know the conversion rate, nor do I care to look it up, but Photoshop CS2 was $170. I wouldn't have bought it even if I had that extra $70 anyway, since that'd probably be better spent on music.

Well...knowing my musical taste, maybe not
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:39 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fealiks
Holy crap, illegal downloads pay off... I wish I had enough to get CS2 but its a complete rip off. It costs them less than £50 to make.
Did you ever pay a programmer?

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Old 08-07-2006, 09:53 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fealiks
Holy crap, illegal downloads pay off... I wish I had enough to get CS2 but its a complete rip off. It costs them less than £50 to make.
Where exactly are you getting this figure from? Games these days have production costs that run in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions (they're closing in on the amount of budget your average film gets).

But something like photoshop, which does require some quite inventive and extreely complex coding, along with bugger loads of design costs, testing, and so on, is going to cost around the same if not more.

Also please note, they are marketing photoshop at the professional graphics artist/designer, not hobbyists like myself or das mole. They're perfectly within their rights to put the price up like that because they know they're going to make money out of it (as professional artists/graphic designers/etc aren't going to illegally download it as they're more likely to be investigated for such a thing).

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Old 08-07-2006, 09:43 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjølen
You asked for it. Go my might army!





And that is only the tip of the iceberg. I just didn't feel like uploading a bunch of them.
Those are eternally great. If you had Sasha Nein from Psychonauts, I would die of SQUEE!!!
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
Where exactly are you getting this figure from? Games these days have production costs that run in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions (they're closing in on the amount of budget your average film gets).

But something like photoshop, which does require some quite inventive and extreely complex coding, along with bugger loads of design costs, testing, and so on, is going to cost around the same if not more.

Also please note, they are marketing photoshop at the professional graphics artist/designer, not hobbyists like myself or das mole. They're perfectly within their rights to put the price up like that because they know they're going to make money out of it (as professional artists/graphic designers/etc aren't going to illegally download it as they're more likely to be investigated for such a thing).
An individual copy of Photoshop would cost less than £100, although the "master" copy (you know what I mean) would cost more, they are still selling for ridiculous prices.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:47 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fealiks
An individual copy of Photoshop would cost less than £100, although the "master" copy (you know what I mean) would cost more, they are still selling for ridiculous prices.
You have no idea at all.




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Old 08-08-2006, 03:19 PM   #305
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Quote:
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An individual copy of Photoshop would cost less than £100, although the "master" copy (you know what I mean) would cost more, they are still selling for ridiculous prices.
I don't quite think you yourself know what you're talking about.

If you're saying that it costs them less to burn a copy of the software onto CD, package it and sell it, then yes, it does cost less than £100, although the price will still range in the £30-£50 mark, but they do still have to make money on their software, otherwise what's the point, and believe it or not, Programmers tend to ask for a hell of a lot of money (it's one of the best paying jobs in the world).

Add marketting to that and we're talking about a lot of money. If you're wondering why games don't charge as much, that's because the game industry are planning on selling a hell of a lot more, they know that more people will actually want to buy their game and so they charge less and still make their money back.

But as for Photoshop, they know they're only going to be selling to the graphics designer crowd, which is and infinately smaller crowd then the gamers market. Therefore their prices go up and they are able to make money. It's not ridiclulous at all, it's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMcCoy
It can. Just open an animated GIF and see how it's done (hint: layers).
So just like ImageReady then (which also does it as layers). That's cool. I'd try it, but I don't have the Gimp to hand, I've just heard it's really good.

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Old 08-08-2006, 03:33 PM   #306
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Quote:
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Programmers tend to ask for a hell of a lot of money
And rightly so, when you're in the game industry, 80+ hours a week isn't that scarce, especially near the deadline...
Also, programming is quite a stressy buisness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
So just like ImageReady then (which also does it as layers). That's cool. I'd try it, but I don't have the Gimp to hand, I've just heard it's really good.
Yeah, IMHO, it's The Best (tm)...
Although the interface is quite different from your standard Windows application...




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Old 08-08-2006, 03:43 PM   #307
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Uh oh, you're not one of those "better than photoshop" people are you? Because just because it's free doesn't make it better you know.

And don't talk to me about programming being stressfull, I've done my fair share this past year at Uni and lets just say 36 hours straight is a good day.

And a half.

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Old 08-08-2006, 04:02 PM   #308
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Uh oh, you're not one of those "better than photoshop" people are you?
I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
Because just because it's free doesn't make it better you know.
It does. And I mean free as in speech here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
And don't talk to me about programming being stressfull, I've done my fair share this past year at Uni and lets just say 36 hours straight is a good day.




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Old 08-08-2006, 04:50 PM   #309
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Well, I'm not about to get into that argument here because I know you guys are quite set in your ways about this kind of stuff.

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Old 08-08-2006, 04:52 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
I don't quite think you yourself know what you're talking about.

If you're saying that it costs them less to burn a copy of the software onto CD, package it and sell it, then yes, it does cost less than £100, although the price will still range in the £30-£50 mark, but they do still have to make money on their software, otherwise what's the point, and believe it or not, Programmers tend to ask for a hell of a lot of money (it's one of the best paying jobs in the world).

Add marketting to that and we're talking about a lot of money. If you're wondering why games don't charge as much, that's because the game industry are planning on selling a hell of a lot more, they know that more people will actually want to buy their game and so they charge less and still make their money back.

But as for Photoshop, they know they're only going to be selling to the graphics designer crowd, which is and infinately smaller crowd then the gamers market. Therefore their prices go up and they are able to make money. It's not ridiclulous at all, it's business.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make, except we both seem to be looking at it differently. In your eyes, it isn't rediculous, it's business. In my eyes, business is ridiculous. Think about it, if every manufacturer in the world sold their products for much lower, more reasonable prices, and used that money to pay their employees more, the world would be better off (no really, think about it). Obviously, that will never happen.
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Old 08-08-2006, 05:15 PM   #311
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And economy would fail. Outright. That's not exactly a better place.

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Old 08-08-2006, 08:00 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fealiks
Think about it, if every manufacturer in the world sold their products for much lower, more reasonable prices, and used that money to pay their employees more, the world would be better off (no really, think about it).
It didn't take me a lot of thinking to point out that manufacurers can't pay their programmers more by selling the products for less. It obviously didn't take you a lot of thinking to type that, either.


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Old 08-08-2006, 09:40 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fealiks
Think about it, if every manufacturer in the world sold their products for much lower, more reasonable prices, and used that money to pay their employees more, the world would be better off (no really, think about it). Obviously, that will never happen.
Nope it won't. And you should know why.

Manufacturers and companies need to keep a steady cash flow in order to keep creating produce etc. This means that all the 'profit' the product makes has to go back into the company, in order to pay for the production of new produce.

This basically means the money is on a big cycle, savvy?

Now, if the workers are paid more, this means that a larger cash flow is necessary in order to make the idea of creating more of the product economically viable. This in turn can be gained by either:

(A) an unprecedented rise in demand for the product (thereby leading to a greater influx of monies)
(B) a reduction in manufacturing costs (either through increasing efficiency, or getting rid of some of those workers you care so much about Fealiks and replacing them with machines etc)
(C) raising the sale price of the product.

The most likely answer would be a combination of B and C. But then, why would the company voluntarily create this problem for themselves, when they could just carry on as they are? The workers have the trade unions to sort their problems out for them, and this means that rather than any radical increase in wage, most companies can keep the workers "happy" through steady increases in keeping with average currency rates at the time.

Seriously Fealiks, its not gonna happen, savvy?

(Any serious economists want to rip my arguements open, they are welcome. It's 2.30AM, and all my knowledge of economics is based on a year of not paying attention in AS Economics).


Listening to you, I get the music
Gazing at You, I get the heat
Following you, I climb the mountain
I get excitement at your feet

Right behind you, I see the millions
On you, I see the glory
From you, I get opinions
From you, I get the story

[From the Who's album, TOMMY]
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:43 PM   #314
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See? Fender say's it. That means it must be true cuz he hardly ever says anything on these boards anymore! Not since the accident...

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Old 08-08-2006, 09:45 PM   #315
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I'd call you more of a mistake Neil, but I love you just the same!


Listening to you, I get the music
Gazing at You, I get the heat
Following you, I climb the mountain
I get excitement at your feet

Right behind you, I see the millions
On you, I see the glory
From you, I get opinions
From you, I get the story

[From the Who's album, TOMMY]
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:46 PM   #316
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See? Fender say's it. That means it must be true cuz he hardly ever says anything on these boards anymore! Not since the accident...
(Blatant Sam and Max reference)
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:47 PM   #317
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Yeah, sorry about that hot dicking, Fender. Dr. Tran just couldn't stop himself.


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Old 08-08-2006, 09:50 PM   #318
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Quote:
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(Blatant Sam and Max reference)
It would be if it was intentional. As it is, it's really just a referance to anyone who's made that joke... which is technically everyone.

And fender, for someone 3 years older than you i really would like to know how your logic works there.


But I love you just the same

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Old 08-08-2006, 09:51 PM   #319
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call me a creep, but I never played S&M.

But I am partial to a bit of S&M


Listening to you, I get the music
Gazing at You, I get the heat
Following you, I climb the mountain
I get excitement at your feet

Right behind you, I see the millions
On you, I see the glory
From you, I get opinions
From you, I get the story

[From the Who's album, TOMMY]
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:55 PM   #320
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Fender, am I gonna have to spray you with the hose again? Seriously.

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