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Thread: Returning to tell the truth:I love the game, but multiplayer sucks, no. 1 reason why.
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:25 PM   #1
Hound_Dawg
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Returning to tell the truth:I love the game, but multiplayer sucks, no. 1 reason why.

I'm returning to these forums to let out a final shout, because I love EaW, and I don't want to see it die. I hate to use the word "suck" but how else to explain the multiplayer? Rushed, a let down, and a shame. I really love the Empire at War game, it was done very well, and it's very fun. The game itself, is awesome. The multiplayer has some bad issues with it, and the biggest issue for many people is how the frames per second, have to be synchronized. My goodness, a match is only as fast as the slowest player. Many people have been put off because they get their new hardware, and are ready to play, excited, and then they hop in a game where one person is running at 5 fps, and making everyone else whose frames are well above (sometimes), slow their match down so that it only progresses at 5 fps as well. Such games as Battlefield 2, (a great game), allow the person to run at their own speed, and slower computers just hiccup along. However with Empire at War, the slowest computer is the speed of the entire game. This has to be fixed, I have friends who have bought this game, and won't play it online, or barely at all, because of all the mistakes. I'm sure the marketers know that the game sold well, that many people play it, and thats why expansions are being made, but the gamers know the multiplayer stinks so they don't play it. Either way lucasarts makes money, but it's not right. The frames per second issue must be fixed. Other issues include save games not appearing in LAN servers, a serious lack of matches, and now, patches. If the team working of EaW doesn't fix the frames per second deal, then they should put a mandatory video stress test on the computer, that the user must run, and then the video stress test gives the computer a ranking on how well the computer ran, and then Host's of matches may put a filter on their server only allowing a computer with the minimum rank on the server *For example only allowing a computer with 25 fps or up*. I hope die-hards who read this are not getting upset because they shouldn't, I'm a die-hard, that's why I'm not giving up. I love the game, and the multiplayer could be awesome, but it just sucks.


Last edited by Hound_Dawg; 06-19-2006 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 06-20-2006, 04:02 AM   #2
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Why oh why does it always end with 'Lucasarts making money'? The reason for such low FPS is because the min-spec for EaW so extremely low.

I agree that multiplayer is the weakest part of EaW but its not to do with the low FPS games. Early bugs, the interface design and of course, Gamespy, are all to blame. I play Dawn of War alot and that only attracts at its peak 250 people online and although it has a better designed interface, it still faces the same problems with Gamespy.

You have to look at the bigger picture. Playing online has changed so much over the past few years - and I place the blame directly at Gamespy. I have NEVER seen such behaviour from people who play online, who think its 'cool' to shout racist abuse at other players, swear and even more. Gamespy do NOTHING to prevent it and has spread all over the online community.

Once all that stops, I am sure more people will find it an inviting atmosphere rather than one that rejects every single new player....

DMUK
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Old 06-20-2006, 12:26 PM   #3
Marsman2020
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These things will never be fixed, because if Lucasarts makes money, they don't care what happens. I was hyped about online, and I had never done it before, and my first experience crushed me for a while until I realized that EAW was just a rotten egg. Now, if they will just improve the glactic map AI...Oh well, it's a false hope...


War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:32 PM   #4
Isair
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I have to say that I do agree with that FPS problem but other than that my only other problem on-line is that there seems to be few games and most of them I noticed are space which I don't like as much as the other modes really.
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Old 06-22-2006, 03:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK

You have to look at the bigger picture. Playing online has changed so much over the past few years - and I place the blame directly at Gamespy. I have NEVER seen such behaviour from people who play online, who think its 'cool' to shout racist abuse at other players, swear and even more. Gamespy do NOTHING to prevent it and has spread all over the online community.

DMUK
You're over-simplying and putting the blame where it does not belong. While I do not think Gamespy are angels, they are not to blame for the problem. The problem lies with people in general, mostly young teens with attitudes who think it's cool to abuse other people or cheat. If a gaming network tried to censor every possible abuse, we wouldn't be able to chat to anybody. Ever play Generals? The chat filter for generals was HILARIOUS because it bleeped out words that are not anywhere near insulting. The end result was that half of the time, my message never even made it across.

So the question has nothing to do with Gamespy, it has to do with people. You either censor everything or you censor nothing, and I for one beleive in the right of all people to say what they want.

The core issues with the MP are not just the people, although they are a large part of the reason why I don't play ANY game online except with people I know. The simple fact of the matter is that the FPS problem can be fixed very simply by several methods. The first was mentioned in the first post, a level indicator of how well your FPS is and the ability to screen out players of lower-end systems. Another problem that leads to low game performance is dial-up, and that can be simply changed to allow a filter which blocks all 56kers. I'm of the beleif that 56kers shouldn't be playing online anyway, but I digress.

This was all a very roundabout way of saying: stop digging on GameSpy. They aren't even remotely the major problem.


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Old 06-23-2006, 03:50 PM   #6
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Yeah, first of all, I have not played EaW previously since feburary, and I must say, that a lot has improved. Also, I must aplogize for being arrogant when I created this thread because I didn't know about the colored button which listed the fps of the player, so the host could weed him out or not. This game is a lot of fun, my opinion has changed .

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Old 06-23-2006, 04:03 PM   #7
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I would disagree.

Gamespy are supposed to be providing the service. So its there responsibility to weed out the spammers and those who hurl abuse at other gamers. Its that simple. If they can't deal with that, they can't and shouldnt provide any kind of service.

They need more moderators to actually do their job. On the old MSN ZONE, if there was this kind of behaviour - a M+ would be there like a shot - like them or loathe them, they did a job and it keep the zone well behaved most of the time.

DMUK
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:48 PM   #8
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In the first few days multiplayer was literally unplayable. They fixed alot so far, but more needs to be done. However, if you can get some good games going it's a complete blast even if you get your butt kicked.

And it seems clans do most of the fighting between each other.Childish because I've yet to see a clan do something that a clan was made for.
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Old 06-24-2006, 02:30 AM   #9
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Whining about any online community is truly pointless. All have their flaws, some more then others. Though I still loathe Gamespy, just as much as DMUK.
As for oversimplifying the matter, putting the blame on young teens is just as ridiculous. The way some adults act, you wonder how they survive in real life. The community is to blame, true, but without someone to write the rules and enforce them, chaos ensues.



Nonetheless, you cannot say whatever you want.

That's why spamming should be clamped upon and it should also be the fate of insults against other players.
Cynical folks could say:"Well, it's freedom of speech and anyone can consider anything an insult." I'm sorry, but that ain't true. You have a brain, use it. If it's something you wouldn't spew in someone's face, then don't do it while behind a computer screen to protect you.
If there are moderators, they are there to judge which offense deserves a warning or ban. At the very least, put some trust in their judgement. Yes, it's often very subjective, but it's better then letting everything go.


I don't care about freedom of speech when someone does this:


ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG
ZOMG

and I'm being kind on it. I've seen much worse and such spamming is unacceptable. Your freedom ends where mine starts and spam infringes on mine.


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Old 06-24-2006, 04:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein1942
In the first few days multiplayer was literally unplayable. They fixed alot so far, but more needs to be done. However, if you can get some good games going it's a complete blast even if you get your butt kicked.

And it seems clans do most of the fighting between each other.Childish because I've yet to see a clan do something that a clan was made for.
Clans like to have a few fun battles with other clans because they know most of them are mature ppl. Tell me through pm what a clan was made for


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Old 06-25-2006, 10:38 AM   #11
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you have two kinds of gaming groups;

1) A Clan - The idea behind a clan is very similar to a tribe. You get together with like minded people and you take on rival clans for various reasons including reputation, territory and simple bragging rights.

2) A Community - The idea behind this is basically an online youth club. People get together in non-competitive circumstances and play for fun and fun alone.

The reason why multiplayer is so bad is because it was so poorly done. You have the bugs, connection issues, really screwed up patch, insane buddy system. On top of this you have the poor community, the majority of which are nothing more than rascist quitters who ruin the fun at every single opportunity. Petro/Gamespy/LucasArts/whothehellever can not do a thing about this nor will they ever be able to. The only thing to dampen this new generation of players is to make some really special ignore feature that allows you to not only ignore these players but also ban them (totally stop them from connecting to your game via some sort of ip detection) from your games (if you host a lot). Other than that you just have to live with it.

This game has already lost a LOT of mature and skilled players through all the above and it's only a matter of time until the lobby is nothing but quitters and rascists with every single game lasting 2 minutes as everyone plays the 'who-can-quit-fastest' game.

1.5 will make or break this game, if it doesnt save it then even the petro fan boys will leave.


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Old 06-25-2006, 11:04 PM   #12
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There is one solution to this. Allow one CD access to one multiplayer account. If this account breaks the ToS (which would explain rules regarding MP), ban the CD key from MP.

Banning IP is not good enough. People with dial-up can change their IPs as fast as a disconnect and reconnect. Banning IPs might also result in removing legit players who have done nothing from the player base.

There are solutions out there. The ressources must be put forward for the community.


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Old 06-26-2006, 04:03 AM   #13
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All gamespy care about are the 'numbers'. The current EaW 1v1 campaign ladder has over 2500 people signed up. I wonder how many are actual single accounts and how many of the others are dual/triple etc accounts.
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Old 06-26-2006, 08:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK
All gamespy care about are the 'numbers'.
That's why LA and/or Petro need to get around their lazyness and create their own thing.

Anyway, I don't agree with the OP. I don't want to see it die.

Was it ever alive?

You guys are focusing on small details that have little to do with the success of the game online. Any community will have stupid players and jerks. That's fact. The other thing to consider is that if the player pool is so low, there's a problem. And it can't always be explained by the "people are not kind with me online" answer.

Of course, EaW is not a blockbuster. Most games based on movies aren't. KotOR was a huge surprise. But then, it was developed by a master, so its success is understandable. The thing is, you can't expect EaW to draw as many players as the "big shot" RTS like the XCrafts and Age of Y. But currently, it's worse than SWGB was. Worse than a mod for a '99 game that you have to pay for. That's not normal.

Of course the multiplayer sucks. That's also a fact. But you can't just put the blame on the bad members of the community or on gamespy. These "public" providers are all bad. Some are worse than others. But really, if a company wants its games to be successful online, it needs to have its own servers. Servers that will be moderated, banning hackers and suspending spammers being common. That would help. But it wouldn't solve the main problem : EaW doesn't attract many players. Yes, there are single players out there. Yes, there are people who don't check these forums. But the population is so low. Something is wrong somewhere, and it's not about the MP. It's about the game itself. I have played a lot of RTSs myself. Some I like, others I don't. But I had never, never shelved a game after a couple of weeks before I played EaW. Even AoK, which I honestly believe to be way overrated, kept me interested for a longer time. Of course, this is just an example. Using this as an argument would be a sophism. But really, when an RTS and SW fan like me gets bored after a few weeks, I honestly think that there's something wrong with the game.

The game is flawed. There has been numerous topics about this already, so I'll pass. I bought EaW because it's a SW game, and I tend to buy most of the SW games that come out for the PC. I learned my lesson this time. From now on, I'm not buying any RTS from someone else than Blizzard, unless it gets super reviews everywhere. Close minded? Possibly. But I'd rather go the safe way now.

Anyway, that's what I had to say. Feel free to ignore/flame/agree. Choose the last and you might get a digital brownie.


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Old 06-27-2006, 01:50 AM   #15
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The community isn't smaller then SWGB's if I recall correctly. The Off-topic part of the old forums (which was the only one really alive) was full of haters who stayed along to have fun with each other.
Truth is, we don't have enough evidence to make such a conclusion. Hey, the community of SWGB lovers was what? 5-7 persons (including me) who posted 95% of the game related posts? The place was alive because it had the people to keep it alive (or on life support).
This place is not on life support yet and the modding and map making community still use these forums quite a bit, much more then SWGB.

I agree with you that it seems that the player pool is lower which could explain a small MP community. However, like in DMUK's example of W40K: DoW, even great games with a seemingly higher playerbase can hit a wall in MP with lack of support. E@W's failings seem to be the cause of a combination of these factors, not any one in particular.

By the way, if you want to save money, buy the games you truly are interested in


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Old 06-27-2006, 03:18 AM   #16
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To say EaW sucks online is not a true statement. Once you do actually find a game, it is alot of fun and I really enjoy it. However, it's all about replay value and because it is SO hard to find that 1 decent game, means that the average player can't be bothered to go through all that.

Dawn of War isnt perfect. I have days when I can't get a decent game but at least I can still chat to people whilst waiting (if I am hosting). People like to interact and currently, the set up doesnt really allow that if people are hosting games.

I don't blame gamespy for that, as this is a design issue - but I do blame them for making it an extremely uninviting place to visit.

DMUK
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Old 06-27-2006, 09:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
The community isn't smaller then SWGB's if I recall correctly. The Off-topic part of the old forums (which was the only one really alive) was full of haters who stayed along to have fun with each other.
Truth is, we don't have enough evidence to make such a conclusion. Hey, the community of SWGB lovers was what? 5-7 persons (including me) who posted 95% of the game related posts? The place was alive because it had the people to keep it alive (or on life support).
This place is not on life support yet and the modding and map making community still use these forums quite a bit, much more then SWGB.
There were 5-7 people left just before EaW was announced. SWGB was long dead by then, and we only had the crappy debates about republic gunships (I still remember the threat "A Republic Gunship we can all live with!") and all those people with too much time in their hands who developed template civs. When SWGB was still "alive", the forums were somewhat active. Of course, this is a long time ago, when the game was still fresh.

But EaW is fresh right now. But it's dead. At most, it's as active as SWGB was back when it was released. The irony in this is that SWGB was, lets face it, a supported mod for AoK... a game that came out in '99. SWGB smelled reheated food really badly. EaW is a somewhat unique game (the engine is new, right?) and it doesn't even succeed in beating SWGB. That's not normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
E@W's failings seem to be the cause of a combination of these factors, not any one in particular.
Agreed. Like I said, multiplayer is indeed (severly) flawed. But that's not the only reason. Saying "The game itself, is awesome" (quoting the OP) is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
By the way, if you want to save money, buy the games you truly are interested in
SW truly interests me, and RTSs truly interest me. Seemed like the perfect match
I know I won't buy the expansion though. I'm not that stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK
To say EaW sucks online is not a true statement. Once you do actually find a game, it is alot of fun and I really enjoy it. However, it's all about replay value and because it is SO hard to find that 1 decent game, means that the average player can't be bothered to go through all that.
It's not only the "average player" who will get pissed at the MP system. It's everyone. The new (or casual) player will undoubtly have at least as much trouble as the average player. The experienced player will move to a game that gives him/her the support he/she deserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK
Dawn of War isnt perfect. I have days when I can't get a decent game but at least I can still chat to people whilst waiting (if I am hosting). People like to interact and currently, the set up doesnt really allow that if people are hosting games.
Now, I haven't played DoW, so I really don't know what it looks like. But really, if you have to host a game yourself, the MP system is probably older than a cracked greek vase. Hosting/joining is a thing of the past. Anonymous Matchmaking and Arranged Teams should be at the centre of any MP system, host/join being left for special scenarios or clan battles.


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Last edited by Darth54; 06-28-2006 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaulUK
To say EaW sucks online is not a true statement. Once you do actually find a game, it is alot of fun and I really enjoy it. However, it's all about replay value and because it is SO hard to find that 1 decent game, means that the average player can't be bothered to go through all that.

Dawn of War isnt perfect. I have days when I can't get a decent game but at least I can still chat to people whilst waiting (if I am hosting). People like to interact and currently, the set up doesnt really allow that if people are hosting games.

I don't blame gamespy for that, as this is a design issue - but I do blame them for making it an extremely uninviting place to visit.

DMUK
I bought the game for one reason only: to play with my friend over the lines. When both have decent CPU's and connections, the multiplayer experience is brilliant. Of course we lack the biggest skirmish battles, but GC is way much better.

Maybe finding and forming fellowships with comrades who possess good connections and machines could keep the matches satisfying.
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Old 06-29-2006, 05:20 AM   #19
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i love muliplayer, even after 6 months (how long has it been? oh only 5)

im so into it that i never have time for single player

but my complaints are lag, low frame rate (at times,) sync errors, (once or twice game freezes after a sync error, or something.) and some people cant conect to everyone.

i wish for the next expansion or patch, that people automaticly connect when they enter a game room, and have their name turn green saying that thier connected. and saying who there conected with, too. (so we dont have to go threw that connection window.) also, id like to be able to chat while the games loading. and be able to tab in and out of the lobby.
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:05 AM   #20
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Dawn of War does offer Auto matching as well. I hate the current 'Quick match' set up on empire at war. It doesnt nothing to inspire the community, or create one.

The game should offer both and I hope this will be the case when the expansion is released. Not everyone wants to play annoymous games. I host DoW games because I have control over the settings that I want to play. If you dont like the settings, you dont join it. That simple.

Its all about choice, something EaW does lack online

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