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Old 10-10-2006, 06:03 AM   #1
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Why does Kreia...(spoilers)

How come Kreia revives Hunharr and orders him to hunt and kill Mira? Judging by the cut content she seems to have a real problem as well. Why does she hate her so much?
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:53 AM   #2
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As far as I know, it's just one of those plotlines that leads nowhere. I think as Mira shows up on Malachor V at the end briefly, there was supposed to be something revelatory about her, but it never made it to the final game.


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Old 10-10-2006, 09:58 AM   #3
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I've always been wondering that myself...
Unfortunately, there are quite a few of those unconncected cutscenes. Just like Goto and Bao Dur's droid...
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:31 AM   #4
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A thought-provoking question. But I have no answers either as I never understood why Kreia resuscitated Hanharr after Mira "killed" him in Visquis' battle chamber (if playing LS) nor what purpose the Mira/Hanharr confrontation on Malachor V served.


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Old 10-10-2006, 11:02 AM   #5
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Originally there were supposed to be lots of confrontations involving the exile's various companions at the end of the game: Visas vs. Handmaiden, Atton vs. Disciple, Mira vs. Hanharr, Atton vs. Sion, HK-47 vs. G0-T0...

But most of it is now cut content, though Team Gizka will be restoring it. As for Mira vs. Hanharr, I think it's due to the rivalry/enmity between them. If Mira needs to confront someone at the end, then Hanharr would seem ideal. Doesn't seem to work the other way around, though...


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Old 10-10-2006, 11:24 AM   #6
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This is all no doubt why rushing a game to market before it's complete usually bites you in the ass. Too many seemingly unanswerable questions or open ended issues. Let's hope a third KOTOR is better thought out and developed prior to release. It always seemed arbitrary that that one (Mira vs Hanharr) made it in but nothing else. Given her (potential) stealth and jedi abilities, she should have made it to the TC when you confront DT, especially if you went to town on all the sith as you fought your way in to confront DS. Should be interesting to see how TG rounds out TSL.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:41 PM   #7
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Maybe they were making a point of Mira facing her fear of him and stop looking over her shoulder all the time.


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Old 10-10-2006, 02:30 PM   #8
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Going by the cut content here I get the impression Kreia hated her.

http://tubertarian.com/kotor2dialog/01.php

Maybe it was a ruse. After all Kreia's ulterior motive seemed to be to set things right for the Exile, whether it be saving her from the Jedi and condemning them or having her finish what was started at Malechor.
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:38 PM   #9
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Actually I think Kreia hates all the Exile's friends. Mostly Atton, Bao-Dur and the Droids.
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:40 PM   #10
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She seems to think Bao Dor is alright. At least she agrees with the Exile if she wants him to fight on Dxun.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:46 PM   #11
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No no no, She dispises Bao'Dur but doesnt admit it so there won't be a discussion about him. As, for some reason, she cannot see into his mind. She also could not see his future, so im in an indescision as to wether or not he is actually dead at the end. Or more shockingly, if he was actually alive at all. I have been trying to see the game storyline from his view and im wondering if he or his soul died in the Mandalorian wars and he was in Limbo all this time. Pretty far fetched but there was definately a larger unexplored reason as to why kreia could not see into him.


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Old 10-10-2006, 05:40 PM   #12
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That is actually a really good way of looking at Bao Dur's persona. That's one I might have to make "cannon" in my fan fic

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Old 10-10-2006, 09:16 PM   #13
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Say, I had a thought about why Sith Lords was butchered the way it was. Looking at the cut content some of it's pretty heavy stuff. Now true the game was right on the heels of RotS, but I was wondering if maybe the original was maybe too much for young Star Wars fans.
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Old 10-24-2006, 07:18 AM   #14
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I thought Kreia couldn't see Boa Dur's future was because he was supposed to be killed in the original ending.
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Old 10-24-2006, 07:57 AM   #15
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I would like to mention that the reason Bao-Dur is not mentioned at the end, and the reason that he appears to the Remote as a hologram is because he was supposed to die on M4-78. So yea tbl, you are right.

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Old 10-24-2006, 09:56 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldberry
I would like to mention that the reason Bao-Dur is not mentioned at the end, and the reason that he appears to the Remote as a hologram is because he was supposed to die on M4-78. So yea tbl, you are right.
I've heard that before, but never seen an explanation for it. Anyone know what was supposed to happen in the plot and how Bao-Dur was supposed to die? Or could someone point to an interview or discussion with the devs that sheds some light on the subject?


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Old 10-24-2006, 11:07 PM   #17
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Beyond Wookieepedia, I've yet to see any evidence of that as well.

It doesn't matter much, though. That content won't be restored with M4-78.


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Old 10-25-2006, 03:17 AM   #18
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I think she wanted something that Mira could see, confront and defeat to become stronger for it, with the dialogue it says she spared Hanharr so she is stronger than Kreia thought. Also with that experience Mira wouldn't be afraid anymore, she would no longer be running.
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Old 10-25-2006, 03:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldberry
I would like to mention that the reason Bao-Dur is not mentioned at the end, and the reason that he appears to the Remote as a hologram is because he was supposed to die on M4-78. So yea tbl, you are right.

According to WildStorm (who, unless I'm wrong, is working on the Restoration Project) there is no evidence of this anywhere in the game. Merely speculation because of the "make my sacrifice count" line that can be heard on the offical site, but is not on the discs anymore (and therefore not restorable by Team Gizka). Which leads me to believe, that if it was going to happen, it was cut early on in production.

Also the reason why Kreia cannot see into Bao's thoughts is, quite simply, because he is a Zabrak. Iridonia is a harsh and unforgiving planet, and because of this, the Zabrak have developed an almost iron will. This is why Bao can block Kreia's attempts at "reading" his thoughts. The reason the Exile can read his thoughts is because 1) she's Force bonded to him and 2) because he lets her.


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Last edited by Melly; 10-25-2006 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melly
Also the reason why Kreia cannot see into Bao's thoughts is, quite simply, because he is a Zabrak. Iridonia is a harsh and unforgiving planet, and because of this, the Zabrak have developed an almost iron will. This is why Bao can block Kreia's attempts at "reading" his thoughts. The reason the Exile can read his thoughts is because 1) she's Force bonded to him and 2) because he lets her.
Sounds like a plausible explanation but what empirical evidence can you provide that supports it, e.g. examples where other Zabrak have shown resistance to mind reading?

I actually started a thread on this question last year and some of us did indeed feel that Bao-Dur was able to block others' from his thoughts by using his strong emotions but the Exile was able to hear his thoughts because of the relationship between the two. However we couldn't come up with anything solid as to why Kreia couldn't hear Bao-Dur's thoughts when she could hear the other crew members' thoughts just fine.


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Old 10-25-2006, 04:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutmeister
Sounds like a plausible explanation but what empirical evidence can you provide that supports it, e.g. examples where other Zabrak have shown resistance to mind reading?
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:20 PM   #22
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Nicely done with the references, Melly.

As I reviewed each of them however I found none that mentioned a Zabrak's ability to prevent Jedi from probing their mind or anything along those lines. You may extrapolate that because Zabrak have strong willpower then they can prevent a force adept like Kreia from hearing their thoughts but since there is nothing concrete in SW lore (at least that I'm aware of) that demonstrates this one can hardly state with certainty that the reason Kreia couldn't hear Bao-Dur's thoughts was simply because he was a Zabrak. If however Bao-Dur was a Toydarian or Hutt then I wouldn't consider the question as debatable.

To recap, I think your hypothesis is quite plausible but there is no factual information available from the EU or otherwise to support it at this time.


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Old 10-26-2006, 05:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutmeister
Nicely done with the references, Melly.
You may extrapolate that because Zabrak have strong willpower then they can prevent a force adept like Kreia from hearing their thoughts.
This is exactly what I did, and perhaps I shouldn't have stated it "with certainty" as you say, but frankly there is very little information out there on Zabraks in general, and there is no other explanation other than their extraordinary willpower. Though I do find it odd that Bao is the only one on the ship that she can't read, he's a Zabrak, and that Zabrak are said to have strong willpower. Looks too convenient to be anything else, IMHO.

And if you want to get into gaming terms Zabraks get a +2 to saves vs. mind-affecting.


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Old 10-26-2006, 07:54 PM   #24
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Another possible explanation is that the Exile doesn't want Kreia to read Bao-Dur's mind and subconsciously blocks it. The Exile has no prior experience with any of the other characters (except Disciple, whom the Exile hardly even remembers and has no memorable common history with - that seems to go only one way as far as I can tell), but the Exile's prior history with Bao-Dur goes exactly to the very core of the Exile's special powers and defining moment. And since the Exile is in denial about that, this could extend to any other source that might reveal it.

Sounds farfetched? Remember that the Exile doesn't even realise that he cut himself off from the force, and Bao-Dur was present at the exact moment when that happened. Bao-Dur knows and emphathizes with the Exile on a level regarding a pivotal and defining experience that no other character can ever hope to. It links the Exile and Bao-Dur together, and since the Exile doesn't like talking about or even acknowledging his past experiences from Malachor to himself, any knowledge of this would be suppressed by extension. And the Exile does influence and manipulate his companions without even knowing it himself, even Kreia who also enters a fight when the Exile chooses to. She may claim it's because they "must stand together", suggesting it's a choice for her - whereas it clearly isn't for several other characters - but I guess I just don't quite trust Kreia, which is always sound advice in any case


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Old 10-28-2006, 01:08 AM   #25
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Kreia hated anyone who got remotely close to the Exile emotionally or had the potential to do so. She felt that the Exile's followers were each to be used in some way, and had no other value. Once they had used up all of this value, they were to be discarded, lest they hamper the Exile's judgement because of emotional ties.
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