lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Who "Do Not Want" Kotor3?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 11-28-2006, 08:02 PM   #41
ExileRevan
Rookie
 
ExileRevan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Unknown Reigons
Posts: 192
I don't want alot of stuff that was left out that better explains the story that we were suposed to see and have to download later. That's the only problem I had with KOTOR 2.
ExileRevan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-29-2006, 04:44 AM   #42
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Just to clarify, there was a one-shot story in Tales about Nihilis destroying Visas' homeworld. The ongoing comic series covers completely new characters at the start of the Mandalorian Wars.
I sit corrected

And you misspelled 'Nihilus'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Again showing that there are lots of great potential stories in that era that don't involve Revan or the Exile.
True, but they aren't the main story of KotOR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Argh, not more amnesia!
Quite. That said, how manyPCs in RPG's DON'T start with something similar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
There have been many threads around on why reintroducing old PCs doesn't really work in RPGs.
Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
How is it curious? For starters, you can say that you remember him. Even if not, there is nothing sinister about not recognizing an aquintance from over a decade ago.
No, you can say you THINK you remember him. Difference. And there is something a bit bizarre about forgetting the ONLY Iridonian mechanic around, and someone to whom you gave an order that totally changed, warped and generally turned upside-down your life.



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-29-2006, 08:55 AM   #43
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.
Yes, yes it does. It is how these games work and how they always will work.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-29-2006, 09:59 AM   #44
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
And you misspelled 'Nihilus'
Whoops!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
True, but they aren't the main story of KotOR
Nor were the characters (apart from T3, HK, and Canderous) in K2. There is lots of room for new characters and still tie it in indirectly to K1, just like K2 does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Quite. That said, how manyPCs in RPG's DON'T start with something similar?
Which makes it pretty cliche, doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.
But from those arguments, can you point me to solutions that decently solve the problems mentioned? I don't remember seeing any...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
No, you can say you THINK you remember him. Difference. And there is something a bit bizarre about forgetting the ONLY Iridonian mechanic around, and someone to whom you gave an order that totally changed, warped and generally turned upside-down your life.
It is very easy to not recognize someone, especially out of context, from over a decade ago. And an Iridonian is probably "just another guy" in the SW universe. Just because she may remember that she gave some guy an order a long time ago, doesn't mean she will automatically remember that it was this guy, a galaxy away and a decade later. All I'm saying is that I can easily understand why she didn't recognize him.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-29-2006, 02:57 PM   #45
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Whoops!

Nor were the characters (apart from T3, HK, and Canderous) in K2. There is lots of room for new characters and still tie it in indirectly to K1, just like K2 does.
True, but again, the story of K2 is very much entirely about Revan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
Which makes it pretty cliche, doesn't it?
Yes, but how many viable alternatives are there? Also, just because something is cliched doesn't automatically mean it is necessarily bad...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
But from those arguments, can you point me to solutions that decently solve the problems mentioned? I don't remember seeing any...
I could, if I could be bothered to go through every thread and point out the very simple solutions/rebuttals that me and igy kept coming up with, but that takes more time than I really can afford to waste on something as unproductive as this argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
It is very easy to not recognize someone, especially out of context, from over a decade ago. And an Iridonian is probably "just another guy" in the SW universe. Just because she may remember that she gave some guy an order a long time ago, doesn't mean she will automatically remember that it was this guy, a galaxy away and a decade later. All I'm saying is that I can easily understand why she didn't recognize him.
He was the ONLY Iridonian serving anywhere *near* her in the Mandalorian Wars. Also, not recognising someone is one thing, but not remembering them at all - not even recalling there name after as little as 7.5 years (the Jedi Civil War being 2.5 years after Malachor V) is a little unrealistic, IMO.



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-29-2006, 06:03 PM   #46
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
He was the ONLY Iridonian serving anywhere *near* her in the Mandalorian Wars. Also, not recognising someone is one thing, but not remembering them at all - not even recalling there name after as little as 7.5 years (the Jedi Civil War being 2.5 years after Malachor V) is a little unrealistic, IMO.
I think the reason for that is that the Exile doesn't WANT to remember. Indeed, the Exile is denial about a lot of things during the entire game. He doesn't remember that he cut himself off from the Force, doesn't want to admit he fought on Dxun, doesn't seem to remember Bao-Dur (but clearly remembers him in vivid details later), doesn't want to reminisce about Malachor with Bao-Dur, doesn't want to look on Nihilus' face, etc.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-30-2006, 06:48 AM   #47
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
@Hawke: Um...that was a joke, right?

@Jediphile: Maybe, but even if you dont *want* to remember something, it's always there. Even at the back of your mind, it's always there, and like all memories, a name, for example, will trigger it.



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-30-2006, 09:54 AM   #48
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Yes, but how many viable alternatives are there?
Lots, I would say. There are many RPGs that don't go that route, and successfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Also, just because something is cliched doesn't automatically mean it is necessarily bad...
No, but when the same series uses the same plot point over and over, it does get tired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
...waste on something as unproductive as this argument
Then there is no reason to continue.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-30-2006, 05:10 PM   #49
Nacommy
Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Kotor 3..hmmm Possible...but....Personally if they do plan such an event in the next few years I would like to see Bioware take FULL authority over it....obsidian juss doesn't know how to make rpg's that arn't buggy....and well kotor 3 is technically never gonna happen....REASON: reven and the Exhile go beyond the outerrim out of the starwars universe in terms of what they have covered in books and the encylopidia and history books of starwars....and if you look in the history book of starwars it says that the sith learned from a race that was the sith....NOT HUMAN A RACE THAT IS SITH!!!! a good example would be marko ragnos...the sith lord he was half human and half sith species....anyway the sith species raged war, blah , blah , blah they left beyond the galaxy......so if they made a kotor 3 they would pretty much be writing history in terms of starwars and frankly I dun want obsidian doing that job....they did a ****ty job already with kotor 2 ... i mean there was supposed to be around what 40 - 50 hours of gameplay....but with all the cut content its more like 20-30 hours....so in conclusion if they make a kotor 3 i want eithier of 2 things to happen A: Bioware takes full controll of the development of it or Lucasarts takes full controll with help from bioware....minor help......as far as obsidian goes they can go blow a goat ...Ireally dun see how this game got game of the year award....did they even look at the bug list and cut content before giving out that award.....I mean really....MORROWIND IN MYMIND WAS THE WORST GAME IN TERMS OF BUGS....then kotor 2 comes anlong and raises the bar for ****ty game development...and frankly I dun give a **** if they were delayed when they weregonna release it...at least the wait would have meant a completed game...not some half ass slammed together jusss to make a profit video game......PHEW sorry had to get that out of my system
Nacommy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-30-2006, 07:27 PM   #50
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
^^

Dude, Obsidian had nothing to do with Morrowind. And while TSL has a lot of cut content and some bugs, it's still playable enough to me. Frankly, I find the plot was hurt far more than playabilty was by bugs. At least the game has never crashed on me or had more bugs than I could fix with a reload or two, which goes for lots and lots of games.

Besides, to be fair, you really have to consider the development schedule for the game. Obsidian wrote the entire game in less than a year, and they even had two months cut from that development cycle. That they were able to release a playable game at all is a remarkable achievement in itself. I'd trust them with KotOR3 any day of the week, IF they are given a realistic development schedule from Lucasarts. But then I would have that condition with any developer. And plotwise I actually liked TSL better than KotOR. It only comes second because of all the content that was cut, and which hurt the plot IMHO.

And welcome to the forums.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-01-2006, 02:08 AM   #51
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
@Hawke: Um...that was a joke, right?
Nope, I am serious.

See Prime stated; "There have been many threads around on why reintroducing old PCs doesn't really work in RPGs."

You replied with: "Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth."

Unfortunately, what was stated then and now about the negatives of re-introducing old PC's is "the truth", it just really isn't viable.

Especiallly as the prime example is TSL using the Exile, if the KotOR series was going to be the 'Story Of Revan' then we would have picked up with Revan at level 20 and played from there. Then, being we are already the mighty and invincible Revan at level 20, we wouldn't really need that much of a game as we are already fairly all-powerful enough to handle most any opponent. Not good.

Then there is the requirements set by the various player types who play these games. You are alienating a large percentage (around 33-66%) of your RPG 'audience' by starting a game this way, as hard as it is for some to recognise, but there are players who get a ton of satisfaction 'building' the character from the beginning, and or play for just the dialogs and story. To start with an already developed character robs them of the expirience they crave and as such is marketing suicide for the developers to persue.

When making a game you have to cater to the whole audience, that is the key to a sucessful game. This is why KotOR and TSL did so well, even with some of the flaws people report TSL has.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by RedHawke; 12-01-2006 at 02:30 AM.
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-01-2006, 02:32 AM   #52
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
@Jediphile: Maybe, but even if you dont *want* to remember something, it's always there. Even at the back of your mind, it's always there, and like all memories, a name, for example, will trigger it.
Certainly. Indeed, I consider that to be the very core of the Exile's problem. He is in denial about lots of things throughout the game. What we're less certain about is whether he's simply denying it in conversation or whether he denies it to himself as well. But I tend to think the latter, since he genuinely doesn't seem to realise that he cut himself off from the force, that he is a wound in the force, etc. The Exile is mentally unstable, because he represses dark episodes from his part, and particularly from Malachor V. And that denial is the very center of his problem and the plot of TSL.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-01-2006, 09:57 AM   #53
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
True, but again, the story of K2 is very much entirely about Revan
For a moment, remove any mention of Revan from the story of K2 and replace it with "generic Jedi turned Sith Lord" or some such. How much does the story and game progression change?

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-03-2006, 09:29 PM   #54
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,778
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Well, the only way you could work the whole Revan character would be to add more powers and feats (perhaps those from TSL plus some extra) and make the opponents realllly tough. But I agree that it would be better to start from scratch and make both Revan and Exile NPCs at best and plot points at least. I don't believe it necessary for either of them to actually make an appearance. Still, no doubt, there are those who would rather leave the fates of the 2 of them mysteries for the same reason they'd rather develop their own charachters........it would allow them to argue ad naseum about the ultimate fate of either one w/o anyone else being able to trump them. Much like the debate about the gender or alignment of Revan and Exile. Then again, canon didn't seem to settle those arguments either......
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-03-2006, 10:08 PM   #55
Clone L68362
Forumite
 
Clone L68362's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Totally lost
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
For a moment, remove any mention of Revan from the story of K2 and replace it with "generic Jedi turned Sith Lord" or some such. How much does the story and game progression change?
Well...the guy won't be named Revan...if that's what you mean...if you meant remove Revan, well, then KOTOR would've never happened!

I still don't understand the whole "forget about the Exile and Revan for K3" mentality.


My sig is stupid.
Clone L68362 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-04-2006, 01:17 AM   #56
RedHawke
Shadow Lord Of The Sith™
 
RedHawke's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Stormreach CA.
Posts: 9,184
Current Game: DDO, Stormreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone L68362
Well...the guy won't be named Revan...if that's what you mean...if you meant remove Revan, well, then KOTOR would've never happened!
Talk about missing Prime's point entirely...


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RedHawke is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-04-2006, 11:01 AM   #57
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,778
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
I think Prime's point might be basically that it doesn't really matter what the name of the sith lord was in KOTOR b/c TSL is about Exile's recovering his/her identity and the whys of his/her predicament. Revan is sort of incidental. Almost background noise. The story in TSL doesn't need Revan (except perhaps insofar as it ties into making it a sequel to the events in KOTOR, not just as another SW story) to work on it's own.
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-05-2006, 11:11 AM   #58
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
TSL is about Exile's recovering his/her identity and the whys of his/her predicament. Revan is sort of incidental. Almost background noise. The story in TSL doesn't need Revan (except perhaps insofar as it ties into making it a sequel to the events in KOTOR, not just as another SW story) to work on it's own.
You get a cookie.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2006, 12:14 AM   #59
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,229
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Who "Do Not Want" Kotor3?

Before people start spaming I am going to say its not meant to be a joke thread.


What I am trying to say is, maybe K3 should not exist at all, but instead another game in the kotor universe instead. The follow up of the Revan/Exile thing can be answered in other media (or maybe even FoC2)

No direct correlation, but something to solidify and support the quote.
It certainly implies that the republic in the films hand not always stood.

There are just too many variants in the whole situation that a true ending to the series (without a preset situation for Revan/Exile) would be improbable.

It is one of those weird thoughts I have after one too many coffee, and reading thru those kotor comics where they describe yet another character in the era.
I noticed a lot of people wanting to have a 3rd based upon the endings.

That's the same mistake the TWISTED METAL series made in their storyline (that and 989 studios is really better at making sports games in the first place).

I agree--WAY too many unknowns. IT should be upon the destruction of THIS Republic. Trying at the quote from palpatine/sidious AOTC "I will not let this republic, that has stood for a thousand years, be split in two."
No direct correlation, but something to solidify and support the quote.
It certainly implies that the republic in the films hand not always stood.

Spreading it out too thin you think?
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2006, 02:02 AM   #60
Clone L68362
Forumite
 
Clone L68362's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Totally lost
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
I think Prime's point might be basically that it doesn't really matter what the name of the sith lord was in KOTOR b/c TSL is about Exile's recovering his/her identity and the whys of his/her predicament. Revan is sort of incidental. Almost background noise. The story in TSL doesn't need Revan (except perhaps insofar as it ties into making it a sequel to the events in KOTOR, not just as another SW story) to work on it's own.
Well, I thought we all knew that.

Doesn't make Revan any less important in the long run, though.


My sig is stupid.
Clone L68362 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2006, 02:31 AM   #61
tbl
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 144
Crisis of Infinite KOTOR Endings?
tbl is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2006, 10:36 AM   #62
Darth InSidious
A handful of dust.
 
Darth InSidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Eleven-Day Empire
Posts: 5,758
Current Game: KotOR II
Prime: How about the games' sequels?
Also, if you can't bring back one character, what makes others any less confusing...What about HK, T3, Candalore et al.?

re: the name - replace Luke Skywalker with 'Bob the Amazing Three-Eyebrowed Dustman From Torquay'

@Hawke: you seem to be implying that repeating something a lot made it more true...

I don't deny you make a strong argument, and yes, people would find it confusing, but I get the feeling a lot of TSL-only players were a bit confused by the refs. to Revan anyhow... Yes, you run the risk of alienating your audience or being horrendously cliched, but there are ways around it, and unless you make KotOR III entirely unrelated to the previous two, you are going to have to have a character with some background in the events of the MW/JCW/SCW, which will inevitably both confuse new players and involve a certain degree of amnesia, IMO.



Works-In-Progress
~
Mods Released
~
Quid existis in desertum videre?
Darth InSidious is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-12-2006, 11:21 AM   #63
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,778
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone L68362
Well, I thought we all knew that.

Doesn't make Revan any less important in the long run, though.

Prime's point was that it didn't really matter if Revan was mentioned a lot or little in the TSL, not that Revan be removed from the backstory (ie KOTOR). Regardless of who "caused the mess" left behind, Exile's story was about cleaning it up and choosing a path. If Revan were to assume the focus in TSL that you appear to suggest, then there would be no need to question what Exile's choice at the end would be. He'd/She'd automatically go off in search of Revan. Even Kriea suggests as much in the end, ie that Exile's path is not necessarily the same as Revan's. So, basically, while many may want to know what became of Revan by the end of a third KOTOR, it's not absolutely necessary to encounter that charachter to make the 3rd game a success on its own. Perhaps Revan and the Exile have seriously hobbled the plans of the true sith, you meet them as some kind of force ghosts who took one for the team, and they basically reveal what you need to do to finish the job.
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-12-2006, 11:47 AM   #64
Prime
Super Dimension Fortress
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,319
Current Game: Skyrim
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Prime: How about the games' sequels?
Also, if you can't bring back one character, what makes others any less confusing...What about HK, T3, Candalore et al.?
They were NPC characters that had a predefined behavior and plotlines that are experienced more or less the same by all the players. Canderous is a Mandalorian who is attempting to rebuild the clans and bring them back to prominence, for example.

Revan and the Exile are a completely different case because they are PCs. Are they male or female? Good or evil? Every player is going to have a different experience with them, and so they are much harder to bring back and make them true to everyone's own experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
I don't deny you make a strong argument, and yes, people would find it confusing, but I get the feeling a lot of TSL-only players were a bit confused by the refs. to Revan anyhow...
Why do you say that? There is enough in the game to get a jist of who he was and how he affected the galaxy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
Yes, you run the risk of alienating your audience or being horrendously cliched, but there are ways around it, and unless you make KotOR III entirely unrelated to the previous two, you are going to have to have a character with some background in the events of the MW/JCW/SCW, which will inevitably both confuse new players and involve a certain degree of amnesia, IMO.
But III doesn't have to be unrelated to previous games for players to not be confused. We didn't know about the Mandalorian Wars in K1, but we learned about that after the fact. There is nothing to stop you from providing information about the previous games to give the new players an idea of the state of the galaxy (both K1 and K2 did this).

My point is all that can be done without having the new game include Revan or the Exile as characters. And a new character does not have to have a personal history in those events (a new padawan perhaps?), only that such information is provided to the player as the story requires.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-12-2006, 12:22 PM   #65
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,778
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
We know something of the MW from conversations with Canderous in KOTOR. His exchanges with Carth and Bastila also shed a little light. As well as the dialogue with Juhani. TSL goes on to expand on this, but the groundwork is laid in KOTOR.
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-08-2007, 10:32 PM   #66
JoesGuy
Rookie
 
JoesGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 158
Call me evil, but if I were the C.E.O of LA I'd not make KotOR III just out of spite, but then it's really down to money and buisness.

I'm indifferent about K3 myself. If it comes it comes, if it doesn't it doesn't. It not our place to decide what they do with their time, but then they need to keep their rocket cars and gold houses polished so maybe we'll get what we want yet. Personally, I'd rather let Team-Gizka finish K2 first, because technically we haven't even finished K2 yet, have we?


The Joe's Corp is watching you. Be afraid.

Because I have so much personality, posting quotes by other people in my signature, by which I govern my life by, makes me the equivalent of god.

JoesGuy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-08-2007, 11:25 PM   #67
Jeff
Rating: Awesome
 
Jeff's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 8,427
Current Game: SWTOR
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Notable contributor LFN Staff Member 
I'm fine if theres no Revan or Exile in the game but I'd like the next game to sort of follow up where TSL left off, time period wise.


Follow me on Twitter
Follow StarWarsMMO.net on Twitter | Like us on Facebook
Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-09-2007, 05:37 PM   #68
JoesGuy
Rookie
 
JoesGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Moeller
I'm fine if theres no Revan or Exile in the game but I'd like the next game to sort of follow up where TSL left off, time period wise.
Yeah I'm for that. Of course, if Revan and Exile were to return they'd have to give us the option of choosing their appearance from the old games.


The Joe's Corp is watching you. Be afraid.

Because I have so much personality, posting quotes by other people in my signature, by which I govern my life by, makes me the equivalent of god.

JoesGuy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-09-2007, 07:49 PM   #69
Grey Master
Firecracker
 
Grey Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: are u stalking me?
Posts: 1,075
I will no longer care, because its more fun this way, not knowing and trying to come up with our own conclusions, but if its made, I will gladly buy it.
Grey Master is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2007, 08:09 PM   #70
ViperSkeele
Rookie
 
ViperSkeele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It was pretty hard role-playing the Exile, when he clearly had so much past knowledge that he never revealed himself. That the character is unwilling to share it with friends and companions is one thing, but I need to know it to play the character. Since I didn't, it meant that playing the Exile was like playing blindfolded with a hand tied behind my back.

Don't get me wrong, though. I actually don't want to have Revan or the Exile as the protagonist in KotOR3. I'd much rather go for a new, young jedi padawan-turning-knight. I'd want Revan and Exile in the plot as major characters who could be playable only later in the game.

I mean, Revan and Exile are pretty powerful characters now. Revan is at least level 20 (and probably a lot more, given that he's been off fighting the true Sith for four years), while the Exile could be pushing level 50. How do you make a playable game that retains progressive elements at those power levels from the beginning? And "resetting" either of them back to level 1 would be lame beyond description, since that's what we've seen twice in as many games now. Sure, the Exile didn't officially have amnesia as Revan did, but then it hardly mattered, when the effect amounted to the same thing...
I'm thinking they may have Revan, The Exile, or both as NPC's in the party, perhaps picked up as masters to train the new PC. Bottom line is I for one HAVE TO find out, HELL YEAH I WANT KOTOR 3 !!!


Hk, you got one extra red wire back here wound around a spoon. Who did you say's been workin' on you?
ViperSkeele is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #71
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoesGuy
Yeah I'm for that. Of course, if Revan and Exile were to return they'd have to give us the option of choosing their appearance from the old games.
Actually, it was established by the starwars.com lore guru (I think they call him "keeper of the holocron") that Revan was male and the Exile was female. I would actually prefer if they stick with this in a possible KotOR3 (where Revan and the Exile would play secondary roles), since setting the gender and side of two background/cameo characters is a bit silly. As for the physical appearance, I don't think that it's an issue. In fact, if they chose to give them "official" appearances, it would help to better define the characters in future games and lore. It would obviously involve a bit of a retcon, but nobody said that Revan had to keep the same haircut he had in KotOR1.


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2007, 10:50 PM   #72
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
I agree with what Prime and RedHawke have said previously.

a) Revan and/or the Exile cannot be the main PC/s of KotOR III.

b) If KotOR III is a follow up of KotOR and TSL, Revan and the Exile don’t need to make in the flesh appearances for the story to work, however, they can’t be treated like they don’t exist, presuming K3 has anything to do with its predecessors.

c) Revan was the PC of KotOR and the Exile was the PC of TSL. Since they aren’t predefined characters, they are almost impossible to bring back. Going canon with Revan and the Exile is simply not on, since it defeats the purpose of playing KotOR and TSL. It’s also unnecessary and lame.

The only way to bring Revan and the Exile back in KotOR III, which as I’ve said, isn’t necessary, is to mask them by making them both DS, but still allow the player to select their genders and what their alignments were in KotOR and TSL respectively.

Jediphile has this IMO plausible idea where Revan has orchestrated or joined a civil war in the unknown regions between the ‘True Sith’ which would weaken them, delay them from attacking known space and buy his/her allies time, whether they be the Sith, the Jedi, or the Republic, to recover and rebuild from the past decade or so of war they’ve had.

Either way, Revan would be masked, and would be the old tactical, inquisitive person he/she once was who was willing to make sacrifices to achieve his/her goals. Why would Revan be this way? It can be argued that since his/her full memories are returning, he/she is going back to the old pre-KotOR Revan. LS Revan would be ‘fake DS’ and DS Revan is already DS.

The Exile would do the same thing, wearing the mask and robe of Darth Nihilus. The Exile could change too, if you go by the theory that he/she is a dark manifestation of Darth Nihilus, and would change, if he/she united with that dark self he/she rejected at Malachor V to become whole again and heal the wound but fall to the DS (LS) or become another type of Nihilus (DS).

It doesn’t have to be exactly this way, but as you can see, by masking Revan and the Exile and setting their alignment during KotOR III thus ‘changing them’ it is only way to save resources and bring them back in the flesh in KotOR III. Making four completely different characters, creating their dialogue trees, voice acting them and so on is a huge money/time consumer and is something the devs wouldn’t do or wouldn’t like to do.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2007, 10:51 PM   #73
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
Actually, it was established by the starwars.com lore guru (I think they call him "keeper of the holocron") that Revan was male and the Exile was female.
That's CANON. It has no revelance however, as there is no canon in the KOTOR series (see TSL).

The Exile and Revan is whomever we want to be, therefore, no set apperances, no set gender, no set alignment. Nothing is set because it is us, the players, who made it.
SilentScope001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2007, 11:04 PM   #74
Soogz
Forumite
 
Soogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 506
Current Game: Fifa 09
K3 should definately exist. Not just because they need to finish it as a trilogy, but because it should make up for some of the things that were left out of K2.


Soogz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-15-2007, 12:52 PM   #75
DarthMuffin
Dark Cupcake of the Sith
 
DarthMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
That's CANON. It has no revelance however, as there is no canon in the KOTOR series (see TSL).

The Exile and Revan is whomever we want to be, therefore, no set apperances, no set gender, no set alignment. Nothing is set because it is us, the players, who made it.
The idea behind my post was to point out the fact that it would be silly to make the player define the appearance, gender and allegiance of two characters who will most likely not be the PC or even party members. If they have a semi-important role (i.e. more than a cameo) it would involve too many different plot roads (and therefore time and resources) to cover all the possibilities. The way around this would be to give them a defined personality and appearance, and since canon already has something for them, why not use it?


~Dark Cupcake of the Sith

Last edited by Darth54; 01-15-2007 at 04:55 PM.
DarthMuffin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-16-2007, 12:19 PM   #76
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
The idea behind my post was to point out the fact that it would be silly to make the player define the appearance, gender and allegiance of two characters who will most likely not be the PC or even party members.
Silly for apperance, BUT not for gender and allegiance. We have a canon apperance for Revan (Revan wearing mask and rope) and I hope that Exile has a mask and a rope too. But gender and allignment must remain variables, so that we can edit them to fit how WE view Revan and Exile.

Quote:
If they have a semi-important role (i.e. more than a cameo) it would involve too many different plot roads (and therefore time and resources) to cover all the possibilities.
But this also means that I will replay the game over and over to cover all the possiblities. Replayablity is a good thing to have, no?

Quote:
The way around this would be to give them a defined personality and appearance, and since canon already has something for them, why not use it?
Because not everyone like canon. I don't. And if you use canon, I will be most upset at the game.

I play DS for both Exile and Revan. If it turns out that my choices don't matter, and that the designers don't care of my choices in getting my character to fall to the DS, then I will be very mad.

They ALREADY allow for players to choose in K2, with Revan. Jediphile, The Archiert, I, and several others can construct plotlines that allow for Revan and Exile to have different alignments and genders...and if we can do it, then the designers of K3 can do it much more better. So why bother worrying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It doesn’t have to be exactly this way, but as you can see, by masking Revan and the Exile and setting their alignment during KotOR III thus ‘changing them’ it is only way to save resources and bring them back in the flesh in KotOR III. Making four completely different characters, creating their dialogue trees, voice acting them and so on is a huge money/time consumer and is something the devs wouldn’t do or wouldn’t like to do.
QFT. Giving us the illusion of choice is a good thing to have. It worked in TSL. A little peeved about that Revan leaves known galaxy regardless of what happens, but it had to be done, and they could have went canon, so I'm glad of that.
SilentScope001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-16-2007, 06:45 PM   #77
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMuffin
The idea behind my post was to point out the fact that it would be silly to make the player define the appearance, gender and allegiance of two characters who will most likely not be the PC or even party members. If they have a semi-important role (i.e. more than a cameo) it would involve too many different plot roads (and therefore time and resources) to cover all the possibilities. The way around this would be to give them a defined personality and appearance, and since canon already has something for them, why not use it?
Read my previous post in this thread DarthMuffin.

And SilentScope001, Jediphile didn't say what you 'QFT'ed', I did.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #78
Salzella
areiK
 
Salzella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,135
Current Game: Portal, Half-Life 2.
All these people who don't care about KOTOR III...

1) what the hell are you doing posting here?
2) Leaving the story unfulfilled would be bad for those people who do want to know what happens to Revan and the Exile, and you'll probably find that's the vast majority. Leave a few open ends? fine. Leave a gaping hole in a storyline desperate to be filled? Doesn't scan.
Salzella is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-20-2007, 07:04 PM   #79
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Silly for apperance, BUT not for gender and allegiance. We have a canon apperance for Revan (Revan wearing mask and rope) and I hope that Exile has a mask and a rope too. But gender and allignment must remain variables, so that we can edit them to fit how WE view Revan and Exile.
Someone has bondage on his mind eh?


With 7000+ posts, I have to side with Prime on the issue.


Re-using the old PCs according to canon is silly. There would be no point to create your character if you decide to play K1 or TSL again like someone already stated. It would be as dumb as playing a Star Wars OT RPG in which you decide what Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader looks like. It's just wrong...


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-03-2007, 08:46 PM   #80
Light of the Fey
Rookie
 
Light of the Fey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Light of Fey
Posts: 96
I would be put down if they didn't continue the KOTOR story. Maybe a new Jedi Hero or maybe even just stop having Jedi and go onto a smuggler or a scout. I would not be upset with Revan and the Exile not being found, it gives me something to day dream about sometimes. I liked the game. However...if KOTOR III didn't come around I wouldn't be TOO upset. Though I really do want the game to come about.
Light of the Fey is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > The Unknown Regions > Who "Do Not Want" Kotor3?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:01 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.