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Old 11-22-2006, 04:18 AM   #1
dannydoo
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Question Where does this fit in? Am I missing something?

When yoda told obi wan that he found a way to communicate with his master qui gon and all that .Then obi wan was all excited and
Then it was never adressed? That was ep 3 I think.So either theres gonna be a lost episode or IM missing something

Thats a huge hole ,is it in a book or deleted scene?It dont add up if it was just a tie in to when they all appear as ghoslty figures here and there.

Im confused.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:37 AM   #2
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I know the scene you are talking about, but could you be a little more detailed?


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Old 11-22-2006, 04:59 AM   #3
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I dont remember much more.
I have to watch that scene again Myself.
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Old 11-22-2006, 06:49 AM   #4
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It isn't a hole, it fixes an OT hole which explains why only Yoda, Anakin and Obi-wan are seen at the end of ROTJ.



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Old 11-22-2006, 10:49 AM   #5
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And why all those other Jedi who were killed are not.

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:18 PM   #6
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... though as we know it some other Jedis may have yet acquired this trick. Then again so did many sith.
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Old 11-22-2006, 12:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannydoo
When yoda told obi wan that he found a way to communicate with his master qui gon and all that .Then obi wan was all excited and
Then it was never adressed? That was ep 3 I think.So either theres gonna be a lost episode or IM missing something

Thats a huge hole ,is it in a book or deleted scene?It dont add up if it was just a tie in to when they all appear as ghoslty figures here and there.

Im confused.
I give my fellow Star Wars fanatics credit for the explination, but there is actually a more logical answer.

After Obi-Wan died in a New Hope, he was able to communicate with Luke. Lucas was trying to explain how Obi-Wan was able to talk to Luke. I believed Yoda called it 'commune'. Yoda also explained that he would have to practice it while in exile. If I am reading Yoda correctly, every Jedi Master at his level could commune with the dead.

When Obi-Wan died, he was such a pro at communing that he could keep in contact with Luke.

Luke's bond to Obi-Wan, Yoda, and his father were based upon a strong emotional connection. Otherwords, Luke's emotions towards all three made communing easier. Thus, Luke was able to see all three of them at the end.

If Lucas didn't explain this, I think people would be, "Hey! What Force Power is that?" -or- "Can all Jedi commune with the dead?" I am sure it has to be practiced. In Luke's case, his emotional connection to all three allowed him to commune. Plus, Obi-Wan had practiced it for years, and had become in tune with the ability.

----------

This also connects to a moment in Episode II. People were wondering about the scene where Yoda felt Ani's pain. When Yoda was shifting through the Force, you can hear Qui-Gon's voice yelling, "No. Anakin." This moment was over lapped with the sand-people yelling. If you remember, this moment occured after Anakin killed an entire group of sand-people. How did Yoda hear Qui-Gon, and why did he respond to Anakin's actions? Easy, Yoda and Qui-Gon knew how to commune, and Yoda picked up on Qui-Gon's reaction. This will also indicate that Anakin can commune, but he would have to wait until he learned higher levels of Force manipulation.

----------

He tried to stitch up small pieces. I understood the comments right away.

----------

Remember, Qui-Gon can commune with Yoda, but his body was burned like Vaders. Thus, anyone can learn how to commune. All they need is a higher understanding of the Force, and a few years of practice.



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Old 11-23-2006, 10:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Then again so did many sith.
Which would have to be something different, or a EU contradiction. Qui-Gon explains what is required to become a Force ghost/gain eternal life and why the Sith will never achieved it...

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Old 11-23-2006, 12:00 PM   #9
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It's explained a little more in the novelisation which I don't own

Wait, so when/how did Anakin learn it?

And how did Qui Gon Jinn learn it in the first place?



PS: You could have just said only those three Jedi cared about Luke enough to appear, but still. You see where I'm going with this? If it requires "years of training" and one Jedi has to teach another, then you wonder who taught Qui Gon and who taught that Jedi and that one and that one, so on and so forth ad infinatum, right?


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Old 11-23-2006, 07:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Wait, so when/how did Anakin learn it?

And how did Qui Gon Jinn learn it in the first place?



PS: You could have just said only those three Jedi cared about Luke enough to appear, but still. You see where I'm going with this? If it requires "years of training" and one Jedi has to teach another, then you wonder who taught Qui Gon and who taught that Jedi and that one and that one, so on and so forth ad infinatum, right?
Qui-Gon is a Jedi Master. Does anyone know for how long?
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Wait, so when/how did Anakin learn it?

And how did Qui Gon Jinn learn it in the first place?
My point exactly.

Well, for Qui Gon you can say that he has been testing out and preacticing the technique from some Jedi relic and what not. That and it works just fine with me if his spirit or whatever has been training evven as it has become one with the force. Hey, it has been YEARS from his death to his communication with yoda.

Obi-wan, well, even if he shows up almost right after his death he has enough time in his "living" state to do his training of such obsecure technique, so did yoda for that matter.

NOW, for Anakin... Se we expact Anakin to learn the technique not yet known to him by just... well... *DING* Hey I know how to force ghost haha.

Basically unless Obi have shown himself as a force ghost to Vader or something we do not even know if Vader have ever seen a force ghost pior to his death. Then, how the hack did he become one, completing the "be a ghost" training in the blink of an eye (well, he is a force ghost not long after his body roasting on the open fire) where others take years to complete. I mean Anakin may be l33t and what not but still, this is a bit too fast.

Well, the only possable answer would be Obi's force ghost/spirit guides Anakin towards the end of his living minutes, maybe with the help of others like Yoda, Qui Gon, dark woman and what not. IF that is true then there must exist a "spirit world" for force sensitives even without force ghosting. Even then dead Anakin's training has to be extremely fast.
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Old 11-28-2006, 06:00 PM   #12
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They carry ultra-portable swords around with them, the blades of which are composed entirely of light, they lift pears with their mind, they push people without actually touching them and they jump 50 feet in the air from standing. Not everything has to be explained.
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Old 01-29-2007, 03:48 AM   #13
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Obi Wan tells Luke that a Jedi can communiacte with dead friends. FRIENDS!. Luke didn't know ANY of the 1.000.000 dead jedi so it's obvious he can't communicate with them.

Although there's one mistake. You see, obi one's body and yoda's body both dissappeared so that they could live on without vanishing...but Qui-Gonn was friggin BURNT :P


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Old 01-29-2007, 11:50 AM   #14
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Well, Vader was roasting like a chestnut on open fire!!

And yet he shows up as a force ghost. Well, you can say its the mechanical parts that is roasting... hmm... poisonous gas for the ewoks.

Also, if you say FRIENDS, then Vader is surely not friends with Leia, but I guess bloodline is a strong connection. See, Luke can do it to his decendent too.

Can't wait to see Secura in force ghost form, seeing that she should be indeed dead, guess nothing change since she is blue anyways.
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Old 01-29-2007, 02:30 PM   #15
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But Leia doesn't see Vader, does she? And Vader is surely some kind of friend of luke since without him Luke would be tosted by Palpy.


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Old 01-30-2007, 06:53 PM   #16
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Yes Leia did in EU.
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:05 PM   #17
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I feel compelled to point out that this idea of becoming one with the force - meaning dieing, but still alive, and then possibly communing with the living, has a lot of parallels to some of the things that the infamous anthropologist Carlos Castaneda wrote in his delaings with a group of indian 'brujos' in mexico.

There are also parallels to stories (kinda folk tales) about Taoist immortals, like Sun Ber, who become one with the tao - and become 'true immortals'.

The shaman sorcerors Castaneda dealt with believed that through a lifetime of discipline and expanding awareness, and recaptiulating one's life to release the holds of the daily world, that eventually instead of death as we know it - every cell would be kindled with awareness, and one could just up and disappear out of the world 'boots, hat and all' kind of like Obiwan and Yoda did. Basicly giving up yourself as a bilogical organism, and becoming a purely energetic being.
Perhaps a Jedi's life in the galaxy as an organic being is just the beginning of the REAL journey.

Something a Sith would enver understand - because all they are concerned with is immediate gratification.

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Old 02-03-2007, 08:57 AM   #18
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We all knoW Obi likes to tweak words... lie the your dad's dead comment.

The thing is, forceghosts are not "energy beings: and they cant interfere with the physical world...
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:57 PM   #19
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Surely Anakin's ability to do this could be easily explained with him being an uber-powerful jedi? He was the chosen one was he not?
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:13 PM   #20
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It was easier to believe, back in the days before the prequels, that any Jedi could do what we see Yoda and Obi-Wan do. Presumably the other Jedi of the past didn't show up at that moment, but Luke could have communed with their spirits at some other time. Perhaps it's just easier to communicate with people you knew in life, or else those other Jedi have long since stopped carry about what happens to mortals.


Then again, wouldn't all those dead Jedi be pissed off and want to try to help out any way they could?

It's a bit of a plot hole.

But anyway, it was easier to believe any Jedi could do it.

Now if we assume you need "special training" then we're left to wonder how Anakin could figure it out in the few seconds he was on the "light side."

But then, if Qui Gon could figure it out AFTER he died, then anyone could.

Even if you buy the explanation in the novel (?) that people who die with a smile on their face get to come back, you'd think a few Jedi would have ACCIDENTALLY returned in the "thousand generations" of the Jedi Order, right? Even one?

It's still a plot hole, but it's harder to manage consistently now that it's supposedly something you learn, rather than something innate to those with a strong connection to the Force to choose...


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Old 02-10-2007, 01:47 PM   #21
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Well... maybe the training is needed to SEE the dead people, and not for them to appear. If that is the case, then Yoda, Obi and Luke are the only ones who needed to learn, and they all clearly had time to.
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Old 02-16-2007, 05:20 PM   #22
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obi-wan does talk to qui-gon in some of the books for like right after 3. i forget what it was called but it had ferrus olin siri's old apprentice in them the first one he was talking to him.


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Old 02-17-2007, 04:43 AM   #23
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Just wondering, if Siri ever become force ghost? It would be so cute seeing Obi and Siri ghost together
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