U.S. --2007 Military Draft--

[Halo_92]

Draft??!!

As unlikly as me getting nominated for President.

I'll edit later, my breakfeast is getting cold.

[TK-8252]

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi

I think it should be like in Israel--everyone should serve their country in some capacity for a year or two, peace or war. Obviously there'd have to be exemptions for something like medical problems. I like the idea of conscientious objectors having the option to do community service, like they have in Germany.

That's why Israel cannot be considered a free country.

[Nancy Allen``]

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

I'm in a good mood, so I'm going to assume that this was a misguided attempt at humour or irony, rather than the most retarded thing I've read all week.

As DE pointed out it was sarcasm. There are reasons we have laws against killing, obvious ones, like, oh, I dunno, to prevent me from hiring a couple of hitmen and turning someone in America into a big wet spot. But because we have that safeguard in place we lose a degree of freedom. I think just about everyone would be able to live with that, lest chance dieing to have no laws, ultimate freedom.

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``

As DE pointed out it was sarcasm. There are reasons we have laws against killing, obvious ones, like, oh, I dunno, to prevent me from hiring a couple of hitmen and turning someone in America into a big wet spot. But because we have that safeguard in place we lose a degree of freedom. I think just about everyone would be able to live with that, lest chance dieing to have no laws, ultimate freedom.

The questionable part of a draft is that there is no pressing need for one. What exactly would we be giving up our freedom for? People being more patriotic? People doing community service? I think our military is far too effective for a draft to be justified for that need. Besides, the people being drafted would NOT be the ones voting for the draft. I'd think it'd be safe to say that mostly people older than the 42 or whatever it is would vote for it. I daresay they wouldn't want to put down their job at the law firm for a couple of years, and yay! They wouldn't have to. Sounds real fair to me.

[Nancy Allen``]

I was discussing freedom here, not the draft, but on that topic, no I don't believe in compulsary enlistment into national service, no way. When do we vote, on the 3rd of November 2008? Well if, going by the large victory the Democrats had that might be change to when, there isn't a Republican in office you can pretty much guarentee the troops will be brought home on the 4th, if they're not trying to do so through the senate right now.

[Darth Reign]

I was told that the Draft maybe instated to prevent World War 3. I guess an unstable Iraq will create a massive regional war in the Middle-East.

[Windu Chi]

Originally Posted by Darth Reign

I was told that the Draft maybe instated to prevent World War 3. I guess an unstable Iraq will create a massive regional war in the Middle-East.

If World War III is inevitable it don't matter, if a damn draft is reinstated.
Also, no one is going to win that war, all our asses will be grass.
So, a draft to prevent WWIII is pointless.

[Mace MacLeod]

^^^Off the top of my head, I don't recall many modern instances of conscription used to prevent wars but rather it's used in response to a war when the military needs to shore up its numbers. I really can't see the US needing to do this unless there's another war brewing somewhere and they need mass amounts of RPG fodder lying around. Conscript armies are never as reliable or motivated as professional volunteer armies anyway.

Originally Posted by TK-8252

That's why Israel cannot be considered a free country.

This I do take issue with. Sometimes the price of freedom is having to fight for it.

[Point Man]

Everyone, repeat after me: There is no plan for a draft.

This is just more fear mongering by people who are trying to turn public sentiment against the Administration.

@Samnmax: The last draft was during the Nixon administration, almost 10 years before Reagan.

[Emperor Devon]

Originally Posted by jimbo fett 66

Everyone, repeat after me: There is no plan for a draft.

Gladly, although the main subject of debate here is whether drafts are acceptable or not.

[TK-8252]

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

This I do take issue with. Sometimes the price of freedom is having to fight for it.

Would you say that same thing to the Palestinians? Hmm...

Nah, let's not go there.

[Point Man]

Originally Posted by Emperor Devon

Gladly, although the main subject of debate here is whether drafts are acceptable or not.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have misread the original post.

Originally Posted by Darth Reign

U.S. --2007 Military Draft--
I just got word that there may be a military draft. Does anyone else have more intel?

[Emperor Devon]

Originally Posted by jimbo fett 66

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have misread the original post.

That's the original topic, though it looks to have evolved since then.

(I'm surprised you've not done anything about me debating your wife's views so srongly. )

[Mace MacLeod]

Originally Posted by TK-8252

Would you say that same thing to the Palestinians? Hmm...

Nah, let's not go there.

Well, I'm not opening the can of worms that would come from trying to defend some of the Israeli military's actions, just that being surrounded on all sides by enemies who deny Israel's right to even exist and having a limited population base to work with, conscription and mandatory military service are necessary negatives.

[Samnmax221]

Originally Posted by Spider AL

As for smoking bans in public places... your right to wave your arm around ends at the tip of my nose. You can do what you like as long as it doesn't affect me adversely. Passive smoking affects people so smoking bans are the only moral solution.

I'm more bothered by the fact that I cannot open up a restaurant that allows smoking within itself. If it's my property it's my right to allow smoking inside. There is also some debate whether or not passive smoking really affects other people (Asthmatics aside)

Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Hitler also had a dog. I say we ban all canines.

Conscription was one of the many evils of Nazi Germany.

Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Yadda, yadda, yadda. Take it to the "Why Socialism is Evil and All Bums Are Lazy" thread.

Considering you live in a non-voting member of the EU, I wouldn't be talking. You are subject to all the regulations of the EU without any representation, not a fair trade if you ask me. TO finish off I'll make myself clear, I don't give a damn about people who refuse to crawl out of the gutter.

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

Uh, if you're willingly joining the Air Guard to pay for your college tuition, you're also volunteering to serve your country. That's the whole reason why they're willing to pay for your schooling, remember? If their money's good enough for you, so are their service requirements. Especially as you turn around and say things like this:

Theres a big difference there, I volunteered, nobody is telling me I have to. As for using the GI benefits, it's not a hand out. I put myself in possible harm and give up my 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year, and possible deployment to who knows where.

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

But everyone else's taxes can pay for your education though, right? Health care and social security are funded from the same source as the military: everyone's taxes. You decry having to pay anything to fund those "incompetent" people who can't make their own way, but you're quite happy to suck at the same public purse when it suits you. Why would you need to do that if you're such a "successful" guy? Just a teensy bit hypocritical.

I'd also like to privatize the Schools. I've had far too many lazy ass Teachers who were being paid too much, and too many good Teachers that weren't being paid enough. Considering I still have to pay for the Schools I might as well attend them, at least I've paid, there are many attending Public Schools whose parents have never paid taxes and never plan on it.

@Samnmax: The last draft was during the Nixon administration, almost 10 years before Reagan.

For some reason I was thinking that it was during Reagan's administration.

[Mace MacLeod]

^^Sam, I think I may have misread or misinterpreted your post that I quoted. Please clarify: If called for military service in Iraq or anywhere else after having joined the reserves, would you willingly go to fight?

[Samnmax221]

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

^^Sam, I think I may have misread or misinterpreted your post that I quoted. Please clarify: If called for military service in Iraq or anywhere else after having joined the reserves, would you willingly go to fight?

I made a commitment, so yes. The difference is they have my consent, they didn't make a fallacious claim against me.

[Spider AL]

I'm more bothered by the fact that I cannot open up a restaurant that allows smoking within itself. If it's my property it's my right to allow smoking inside. There is also some debate whether or not passive smoking really affects other people (Asthmatics aside)

See, I see nothing wrong with the idea of having a private restaurant that allows smoking, nor a smoking club that happens to also serve food. If the legislation blocks these rarified establishments, perhaps it should be reviewed.

As for the idea that there's a debate on the subject of whether passive smoking has adverse effects on people in general... yes there is technically a debate, but only insofar as there will ALWAYS be a debate on this issue, just as there will always be a "debate" on the issue of global warming and evolution, no matter how much evidence one presents. Suffice it to say that the broad consensus is leaning towards "Yes, passive smoking is dangerous".

I made a commitment, so yes. The difference is they have my consent, they didn't make a fallacious claim against me.

I posted my reasons for disagreeing with conscription above... I'm curious to hear (read) a more detailed explanation of your reasoning for disagreeing with it, as my reasons tend to revolve around the basic principle that our governments simply cannot be trusted to use the troops morally. If the troops were always used for good, I'd be in favour of conscription, I'm sure.

So how about you?

[Mace MacLeod]

Originally Posted by Samnmax221

I made a commitment, so yes.

Okay, my bad. I misinterpreted your remarks as being that you would be unwilling to participate in active service after having been educated on the military's tab. I must have been drunk...oh well, I usually am anyway. My apologies.

[Jae Onasi]

Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod

Okay, my bad. I misinterpreted your remarks as being that you would be unwilling to participate in active service after having been educated on the military's tab.

If you don't fulfill your commitment after they pay for your school, they make you pay the entire thing back. That's on top of the dishonorable discharge and probably jail time at Chez Leavenworth.