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View Poll Results: Who would win in a fight?
Revan 149 74.13%
Nihilus 52 25.87%
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Thread: Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win
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Old 06-16-2007, 02:37 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
1. I said Vader being able to do whatever he did to Han's blast is a basis for assuming Nihilus might also do it. I did not speak as to what power that would be, but since you bring it up, Force Deflect is fairly common force power for any forceuser to take in the game.

2. I trust that if you examine my comment quoted above, you'll find that I did in no way call you "a stupid fanboy", as you put it. Your attempt to infer that is, well, a bit below board in my humble opinion. I apologize if I seem to have struck a nerve, however...

1.) And like I have said already: From my information (out of the book I jedi) this is NOT something everyone can do, but just a few who have talent in that department of the force. And except Vader, I don't recall anyone making use of that ability in the movie either. How my thesis that Nihilus may not be able to do that is "unfounded"..explain please.

2.) No, you're right, you did not. I seem to be unable to understand what you say there. Please, enlighten me, what did you mean exactly then?
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Old 06-16-2007, 02:38 PM   #482
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Vader doesn't deflect the blaster bolt, he disperses its energy through his body like Vaelastraz Say's, but either way I wouldn't be surprised if Nihilus can do that naturally judging by the nature of his powers.
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Old 06-16-2007, 02:45 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
1.) And like I have said already: From my information (out of the book I jedi) this is NOT something everyone can do, but just a few who have talent in that department of the force. And except Vader, I don't recall anyone making use of that ability in the movie either. How my thesis that Nihilus may not be able to do that is "unfounded"..explain please.
To quote myself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Though in theory it should be entirely possible. In JO, using Force push against a blaster bolt could send it flying back to the person who shot it. It seems to me that doing a sort of mini-Force push against a blaster bolt at close range(entirely possible - energy in that form is still something physical) would require less effort than conjuring up some sort of protection field with the Force. Since Nihilus can devour planets and shoot bolts of lightning at people I don't think that would be beyond him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
Vader doesn't deflect the blaster bolt, he disperses its energy through his body like Vaelastraz Say's,
I don't think it's possible to disperse (easily, that is). Blaster bolts are concentrated bits of energy that are thousands of degrees hot. Doesn't strike me as something you would easily be able to or want to disperse when you could just deflect it. Combined with how a fair bit of Vader's body was mechanical, putting the energy through himself wouldn't have been very bright.


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Old 06-16-2007, 04:30 PM   #484
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Like you said it's irrelevant to the post, but:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's who in the NJO
Some Jedi had the ability to absorb energy and if needed redirect it to greatly enhance their Force powers, including telekinesis. there abilities to manipulate energy even allowed them to withstand light saber contact with only minor charring of the skin. Nor were they restricted to lasers and similar sources; they also spread to include things like heat and fire. they had the ability to absorb the heat and flames and convert them into Force power which could then be used to bolster their own powers and make there relatively weak telekinetic powers very strong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Official Star Wars Factfile
One of Vader's talents in the Force was to be able to block blaster bolts with his hands, completely dissipating the energy, turning it into raw Force power that he could use. Yoda, Corran Horn, and Jacen Solo demonstrated the ability to channel energy from outside attacks into Force power in similar ways.

Last edited by adamqd; 06-16-2007 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:43 PM   #485
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Who's who in the NJO
NJO? Need I say more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's who in the NJO
there abilities to manipulate energy even allowed them to withstand light saber contact with only minor charring of the skin. Nor were they restricted to lasers and similar sources; they also spread to include things like heat and fire. they had the ability to absorb the heat and flames and convert them into Force power which could then be used to bolster their own powers
Okay, that's just silly. Another reason for me to consider NJO non-canon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Official Star Wars Factfile
One of Vader's talents in the Force was to be able to block blaster bolts with his hands, completely dissipating the energy, turning it into raw Force power that he could use.
Scientifically that makes no sense at all. For Vader to be able to transfer raw energy into Force-power for him to use he'd have to be altering and reshaping its very molecules. If something like that were possible you'd see Jedi making intricate sculptures or being able to perform plastic surgery with the Force, another thing which sounds extremely silly. Or you'd see them carrying around cartridges of tibanna gas to use as portable reservoirs of Force power (silly again).


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Old 06-16-2007, 05:55 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Scientifically that makes no sense at all.
You do realize star wars is science fiction, and has no basis in what we think should or shouldn't be possible? Besides I didn't say I even cared, like you say NJO sucks. (apart from the new legacy stuff) I'm just pointing out the Facts.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:08 PM   #487
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Scientifically that makes no sense at all.
Neither does floating lightsabers.


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Old 06-19-2007, 02:01 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Secretly I long to be a Revan fanboy too so that is I too can put forward unfounded theories about how Revan is the greatest ever with no other argument than "OMG, Revan ROXXORS and if you think otherwise you're an idiot - LOL!"

That would certainly be a lot easier than actually going through the tiresome process of stating long passages from the game's dialogue to support you position, and which nobody bothers to consider anyway....
You don't actually think that Revan fanboys are that stupid do you? Every type of fanboy has its idiots, and by some definitions of "fanboy," the word includes only them, but those people aren't even worth talking about. So who exactly are you disparaging? Surely not the Revan fans who are seriously supporting Revan's case using evidence.

I'm a huge Revan fan, and I still think that Nihilus would most likely win, but I still like to argue for Revan to A) play Devil's advocate and B) explore the possibility that Revan could win (ie defend himself against Nihilus' drain).




Concerning the blaster bolt deflection, I think that's irrelevant for many reasons.
1. There's no reason to believe that Nihilus has the rare and exceptional ability to turn energy into the force.
2. An ordinary competant Jedi could probably deflect blaster bolts in some way if they concentrated hard enough, anyways. Nihilus could be safe from the shots one way or another, if they weren't too numerous or strong.
3. He'd just use his lightsaber anyways.
4. Each and every one of those options require concentration, reflex, and just some kind of focus. A sniper shot, at an unguarded moment, could get through even a Sith Lord's defenses. Especially if the assassin is a droid, whose thoughts are undetectable through the force.
5. Anything else besides a perfectly set up sniper shot would be irrelevant, because he could defend himself. And in close quarters, he could do whatever he wants to HK or his weapon.
6. Anyone arguing that Nihilus would not die if he was shot in the head with a blaster bolt is being exactly as unreasonable as anyone who says that Revan would not be killed by Nihilus' force drain.
7. Why are we still talking about HK vs Nihilus anyways?


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Old 06-19-2007, 10:14 AM   #489
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The way I see it, Nihilus can't just reach out and eat you. Otherwise, your party would have dropped dead on the approach to Ravager, except the Exile. I'm guessing he's got to be in some form of meditation to be able to Force Eat, and outside that meditation the power is impossible to use. Keep in mind that Nihilus never even apparently ATTEMPTS to use his ability, which would have been the first thing I did when I team of Jedi Knights busted down my door. So, again, Revan.
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:33 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
The way I see it, Nihilus can't just reach out and eat you.
Visas: When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Otherwise, your party would have dropped dead on the approach to Ravager, except the Exile.
Nope, as Tobin says, Nihilus just thought killing the party was beneath him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
I'm guessing he's got to be in some form of meditation to be able to Force Eat, and outside that meditation the power is impossible to use.
We see him use it in-game on the Exile. Took him as long to use as the Drain Life power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Keep in mind that Nihilus never even apparently ATTEMPTS to use his ability, which would have been the first thing I did when I team of Jedi Knights busted down my door. So, again, Revan.
Nihilus does attempt to use that ability, albeit with disastrous results. With how he was bonded to Visas and Mandalore wasn't even Force-sensitive he had little reason to use it again.


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Old 06-26-2007, 04:05 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSI
I vote Nihilus. Well, Draining is a very, very good power...and he can even destroy a planet by himself...Can Revan do?
Revan destroyed malachor...

and both did not destroy it by themselves but with their fleet...

Revan would win for sure.

"another thing which sounds extremely silly"

one big lol for the guy said this.
we are here in a ****ing star wars forum where peaple fight each other with LIGHTSABERS (and thats silly to me) and use "THE FORCE". they can shoot bolts and **** and you say its silly that they can convert energy to force because it is not PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE.
but yeah all the other stuff from the movie is physically possible ha?

...
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:13 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplee
Revan destroyed malachor...

and both did not destroy it by themselves but with their fleet...

Revan would win for sure.

Revan did not destroy Malachor. It was the msg (Mass Shadow Generator)
And Revan didn't build it, Bao-Dur did. Revan didn't even gave the order to activate it, the Jedi Exile did. So you can't really say that Revan destroyed Malachor..

EDIT: Nihilus didn't destroy Katarr with his fleet, he destroyed it with his bare hands. Revan was a tactican, not a lifesucking supervillian.



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Old 06-27-2007, 04:05 PM   #493
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I don't know about who's the more powerfull, but the general public seem to prefer Nihilus....

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Old 06-27-2007, 04:43 PM   #494
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Nihilus is definitely more powerful, but Revan is smarter, by a long shot. Straight-up, head to head, I'd say Nihilus would drain Revan dry, but Revan, being a strategic genius, would not allow himself to be caught in a situation that he would probably lose. I'd say Revan would have blown up the Ravager before killing Darth Nihilus, thus avoiding a one on one battle.

I think this would work, too. Notice that if you threaten Nihilus with blowing up his ship, Visas says that he has no clue what you're talking about, that he only sees worlds and stars? Sounds like an easily exploitable weakness for a strategist like Revan.





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Old 06-28-2007, 09:58 AM   #495
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Well, after reading the 12 and a half pages of this thread, I must confess that I'm ashamed that I voted for Revan, even though I'm a big fan of his and I like him definetely more than Nihilus.

Anyway, the only one who could defeat Nihilus seems to be the Jedi Exile, based upon the 2 games and the canon information that there is so far. If Revan were to know some anti-Nihilus drain power(which is not confirmed) then yes, he could beat Nihilus in a 1 on 1. But then again, Nihilus could also know an anti-anti-Nihilus power(which is also not confirmed). Having said that, Nihilus would definetely beat Revan by sucking him up like he did with the Masters on Katarr. Then again, Revan, being a great strategist and military leader would beat Nihilus, if their armies confronted.

But in the end, I want to say that I agree with True_Avery: this isn't really a fair fight considering Nihilus is like a black hole and Revan is a very powerful Jedi Knight or Sith Lord(probably the most powerful of his era).


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Old 07-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #496
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REVAN ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!! Revan would wipe the floor with Nihilus, regardless of his ability to drain. notice how visas was never affected aboared his ship? so why wouldnt a more powerful sith/jedi be unaffected? Hmmmmmm? Case closed!


"Size matters not-"-Yoda
"So your telling me that if a rancor comes after me, the fact that it's at least 20x's bigger than me dosen't mean a d***ed thing?"-some random, smart-mouthed aprentice before the clone wars
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:47 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi MasterRoot
notice how visas was never affected aboared his ship? so why wouldnt a more powerful sith/jedi be unaffected?
Visas had a force bond with Darth Nihilus: if he had drained her he'd by extension drain himself.

Which most likely is the reason behind the forced composition of your task force on the Ravager: The Exile (flipside of Nihilus coin, immune to his drain), Visas (force-bonded with Nihilus, he can't drain her) and Mandalore (the only non-force sensitive organic on the crew, and thus a sub-optimal choice for Nihilus to feed on).
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:01 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Visas had a force bond with Darth Nihilus: if he had drained her he'd by extension drain himself.
well, bond or no bond, nihilus couldnt control his power so what was stopping him from draining visas?

also with mandalore, if u look around the bridge to where you fight him, go to the edge and youll see his DRAINED NON-FORCE SENSITIVE crew! Explain that!


"Size matters not-"-Yoda
"So your telling me that if a rancor comes after me, the fact that it's at least 20x's bigger than me dosen't mean a d***ed thing?"-some random, smart-mouthed aprentice before the clone wars

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Old 07-26-2007, 05:02 PM   #499
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Revan. Why?

Revan was a destroyer of worlds in a sense. He destroyed them from the inside. He could corrupt a follower more then the exile could. His studies of the True Sith on Malachor and the Unknown Regions made him understand their techniques, and his fall from Dark Lord of the Sith to a powerful Jedi made him understand both sides of the force and their strengths and weaknesses.

Nihilus was pure power. He was a pawn of the force, corrupted as Kriea had said. Nihilus relied on the force, while Revan didn't. Nihilus only lost against the exile because the exile was a hole in the force, he was nothing, and you cannot kill what is not there. Revan was in tune with the force, but his studies made him almost invulnerable to it, showing that he had become one with the force outside of death.

So I say Revan would win. His knowledge of Sith techniques and power and his own power would best Nihilus.


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Old 07-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi MasterRoot
well, bond or no bond, nihilus couldnt control his power so what was stopping him from draining visas?
Self-preservation? Not even a mindless beast would consume itself. And he's not quite as mindless as that, really. He sent Visas after the Exile and was behind the Sith activities on Onderon and Dxun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi MasterRoot
also with mandalore, if u look around the bridge to where you fight him, go to the edge and youll see his DRAINED NON-FORCE SENSITIVE crew! Explain that!
I don't need to, since the game already does through dialog (with Colonel Tobin I believe) Nihilus slowly drains everyone in his presence, including his own crew, merely by being near them without expending any energy or will to do so. The crew of the Ravager have been with him for years, so the effects on them are plainly visible. Presumably he's actively shielding Visas from it, unless the "ambient drain aura" (or whatever) is weak enough that force sensitives (unlike his regular crew) can protect themselves from it.

The Exile's task force only makes a brief visit on the ship, an hour or two at most, and as such that innate drain would not be harmful during such a short exposure.

To actively drain someone, like the instakill drain he did to every living thing on Katarr and tried to do to the Exile, expends his power and makes him more "hungry". A Jedi might be strong enough in the force to make it worthwhile, but not a single non-force sensitive. As the game dialog says he'd have to feed on all life on Citadel Station and the planet below for it to be worthwhile if there are no force users.

Thus, unless Revan had some means to shield or block Nihilus drain power she would just prove to be a significantly tastier and more nutritious snack for Nihilus to feed on. The fight would be over before it had a chance to begin, being drained to an empty husk within seconds.
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:24 PM   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Self-preservation? Not even a mindless beast would consume itself. And he's not quite as mindless as that, really. He sent Visas after the Exile and was behind the Sith activities on Onderon and Dxun.



I don't need to, since the game already does through dialog (with Colonel Tobin I believe) Nihilus slowly drains everyone in his presence, including his own crew, merely by being near them without expending any energy or will to do so. The crew of the Ravager have been with him for years, so the effects on them are plainly visible. Presumably he's actively shielding Visas from it, unless the "ambient drain aura" (or whatever) is weak enough that force sensitives (unlike his regular crew) can protect themselves from it.

The Exile's task force only makes a brief visit on the ship, an hour or two at most, and as such that innate drain would not be harmful during such a short exposure.

To actively drain someone, like the instakill drain he did to every living thing on Katarr and tried to do to the Exile, expends his power and makes him more "hungry". A Jedi might be strong enough in the force to make it worthwhile, but not a single non-force sensitive. As the game dialog says he'd have to feed on all life on Citadel Station and the planet below for it to be worthwhile if there are no force users.

Thus, unless Revan had some means to shield or block Nihilus drain power she would just prove to be a significantly tastier and more nutritious snack for Nihilus to feed on. The fight would be over before it had a chance to begin, being drained to an empty husk within seconds.
Wow. Your right Revans pretty much screwed at a head to head confrontation..................................... .....But with Revan being the master stratagist he is I still think he'd win as said above he would think to destroy the ship or figure out another way to win.




REVAN FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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"So your telling me that if a rancor comes after me, the fact that it's at least 20x's bigger than me dosen't mean a d***ed thing?"-some random, smart-mouthed aprentice before the clone wars
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:16 PM   #502
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Tallying up all of Nihilus' powers puts him well above Revan.

Powers of Darth Nihilus


"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
--Tobin

Mandalore: [The Ravager] is barely holding itself together. The structural damage should have destroye dit long ago.

Tobin: He holds it together. And he keeps us all alive, just enough, like rotworms in a dying beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ


"When my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died."


http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=172&page=191

As we see, Nihilus easily tosses around a Jedi Master and his former tutor but that is not all.

What Traya later says happened to her:

"And there would be those, like me, who have had the Force stripped from them."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2bcS4uZWtY


Force Choke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wt4fwDx1lE

Able to transfer his conscience into toehr objects to escape death.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=646&page=070


Nihilus vs. The Jedi Exile, The Mandalore and (his former) apprentice Visas Marr

First and foremost, what shape was Nihilus in prior to the fight with the Exile?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ

1:49

"The Master suffers... If he can not feed, then the hunger begins to consume him The planet Telos... He may feed on something upon its surface to sustain himself a while longer."

2:33
"[Kreia] spoke of the Jedi academy here on Telos...and my Master was forced to come here." -Tobin

2:54
"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station... he will cleanse it of life. ...and if there are no Jedi below, he will have no other choice."


So, the Exile, Visas and the Mandalore all proceed to the bridge of The Ravager and confront Nihilus in this condition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV8iniopJ3U

The subtitles aren’t in English but it’s the clearest vid I could find of this.

At 00:34, Nihilus stuns the Exile. The Exile and everyone else is at his mercy with no more than a gesture after turning around.

But he chooses not to. He chooses, because he “suffers”, to try and drain the Exile. (1:08) He then falls down before getting back up, withdrawing his saber and preparing to fight.

Jump to the end of the fight. After the Mandalore, Visas and the Exile have been assaulting him.

What were the results of that initial conflict?

Visas: “He... is too powerful...” (1:56)

So, the only canon account we have of how that first skirmish went was that apparently he was either beating the crap out of all of them or whatever they did had no effect. And this is him doubly weakened.

But yes, Nihilus does eventually lose the fight. If he had chosen to, however, he could have beaten the Exile in the first seconds of the fight. And the Exile overcame Nihilus with 2 assistants.

About Nihilus

Kreia on Nihilus:
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

"his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him."



Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...

Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.

Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?

Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.

Visas: He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake life dies… sacrificing itself to his hunger."

NON-CANON/CUT CONTENT

Darth Nihilus owns Darth Sion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg
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Old 08-14-2007, 02:44 AM   #503
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Wow..This forums been going on awhile. But yha.
Nihilus wins. I voted for Revan, and even tryed to defend him. (As any stubborn Revan Fanboy would.) But i was proved wrong.
Revan can't beat Nihilus. Period.
Revan could HIRE someone to try and kill Nihilus.
Revan's ship could destroy Nihilus's ship.
Revan's army could beat Nihilus's army.
But those are all moot points.

Reven vs Nihilus in combat = Nihilus wins.
In Revan's defence, I think Revan would realize this...and just basicly aviod the fight...He can't win, and he knows it.


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Old 08-14-2007, 07:45 AM   #504
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I quote Kreia: "Revan was power. Looking at him was like staring intop the haert of the force."

So let's see...

Nilhuis is a power hungry sith lord who is totally messed up.
Revan is a master of control and raw, power. Revan could own nilhuis easily. So nilhuis feeds off of killing jedi- Revan was strong, powerful- His will over everyone could easily counter Nilhuis's mind, and Revan could thus, destroy Nilhuis without even fighting him.

So Nilhuis had tons of awesome powers and stuff that make him pretty much invinible.
Revan's will to break jedi during the mandalorian wars and the jedi civil war with his mind is one extent of proof the Revan's will can overthrough Nilhuis's. Just as the exile beats darth Sion with his mind, Revan could destroy Nilhuis with his.
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:01 PM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcesious
Revan is a master of control and raw, power. Revan could own nilhuis easily. So nilhuis feeds off of killing jedi- Revan was strong, powerful- His will over everyone could easily counter Nilhuis's mind, and Revan could thus, destroy Nilhuis without even fighting him.
From the numerous posts you've made, you seem to be forgetting Revan is still a mortal.... Remember, if you stab him he bleeds and if you blast him he still dies.

(In addition, there is a complete lack of any evidence within either game to support your claim Revan can destroy people with his mind.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcesious
Revan's will to break jedi during the mandalorian wars and the jedi civil war with his mind is one extent of proof the Revan's will can overthrough Nilhuis's. Just as the exile beats darth Sion with his mind, Revan could destroy Nilhuis with his.
How?

Nihilus doesn't have a mind in the normal sense. He cannot truly be called human any longer, because he is not - he's an animal, all he wants to do is feed. He doesn't care about anything else, and he's likely incapable of thinking of anything else too. Contests of will are wasted on him, because he has no will to even overcome in the first place.

Still, it's a pretty simple issue to debate. The stronger someone is in the Force (which you have been saying Revan is) the more vulnerable they are to Nihilus. If he could kill an entire conclave of Jedi Masters I doubt one Sith Lord could stand up to him.


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Old 08-14-2007, 07:13 PM   #506
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Problem with characters like Nihilus is, that their "powers" are very, very "strechy". They can be almost god-like, but in a comic, a good jedi can kill him with a clever trick. So it's hard to compare people with such powers. The dark Lord Revan would surely have found a clever tatic to destroy Nihilus - the redeemed Jedi Revan would have had trouble to withstand his powers in a face to face fight, but probably he would have found some solution before :-)
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:03 PM   #507
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*Groan*

Alright, this fight is fairly inconclusive. First of all, they were both described as strong, but neither of them truly showed any power. Sure, Nihilus can swallow planet life if they have enough Jedi, but he can only do it if there's a ton of them. Also, Nihilus had to continuously feed on life or he would starve. Quite a sacrifice, I think.

Revan hadn't shown any feats of power, nor any things to demerit his power. This is just like asking "Who would win in a pazaak match, Atton or Han Solo?" You know Atton plays Pazaak, but there's nothing to show exactly how good he is.

Revan was a powerful Jedi, but my guess is he wasn't that much stronger than Anakin Skywalker in his prime (if at all). Mace Windu and Palpatine both basically said Anakin was the most powerful Jedi alive at that time in terms of raw power; he probably didn't get to live to his full potential, though.

Anyway, there isn't enough information on either side to reach a verdict.


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Old 12-27-2007, 07:27 AM   #508
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Hmm I thought this thread was over... or had been changed to HK-47 (Tied with Mandalore/Canderous for official Star Wars badass... LOL) vs. Nihilus (Is only an animal with the intentions of a cannok who has an extremely rare powerful power that supposedly can only be countered with be someone who doesnt feel the force at all) Well since it is still Revan (Most likely in the top 10 most favorite Star Wars character, Revan has been known for being very powerful and possibly even creating the Thought Bomb technique, which could be used against Nihilus) vs Nihilus (Is also in a top ten list but probably in the Favorite/Most powerful Sith Lord, which Revan is also in and to some people Nihilus isnt even considered a Sith but just in name) Some of the things I have said can sound fanboyish but that is only because I believe Revan could find a way to stop Nihilus, but that doesnt mean I think Nihilus couldnt still have Revan for desert. When I say this doesnt mean Nihilus learned the power from the Trayus Academy but Kreia said that the power is as old as the Sith, its is not known if she means the species or the teachings, if she meant teachings I am sure there would have to be some connection from Ultimate Force/Life Draining Power to the Sith. Why wouldnt she say the Force or the Jedi knowing the Jedi are older and the Force has always existed. Kreia also says that anything is possible with the force. Now Revan discovered the Trayus Acedemy and was the first one to unlock its secrets (bescides the True Sith or Ancient Sith Lords of course who built it) Now if the technique is as old as the Sith than I am sure the Jedi the Sith and all Force Beings would have studied it and who ever said that that Drain power was a power/technique which there was no defense to. And again Kreia has said so many things I dont even think we should listen to her ideas when playing the game or using them on the forums. I mean:
There are Techniques in the force in which there is no defense.
Anything is possible with the force.
That power cannot be taught, it comes by natural.
The Force has its own will.
Now all of these conflict with eachother, If anything is possible with the force than anything can be taught and there would be a defense to that power, If there are techniques/powers which have no defense to them then Anyone who is to gain that power will be the ultimate scab/animal/thing in the galaxy and only an Exile who has lost their connection to the force can stop it or a super cool droid like HK-47 who is equiped enough can stop it, if the power cannot be taught than the force barely exists if nothing is impossible with the force UNLESS that power might not even be the Force but still the force could be used to stop it if nothing is impossible, and if the Force as a will than why the hell would it allow anyone to have that power I mean especially if it/Nihilus could harm the Force. So in other words Kreia is clearly a picky, cant be happy, wannabe SUPER FORCE BEING, who is crazy about the force she would want to kill it... I mean she is smoking too much Dhagobah Grean (If you have never heard that saying be used search for Star Wars Gansta Rap, it is hilarious .) So until more info is given about either Revan and Nihilus there will be no winner, no looser. I believe Revan could win or at least defend against the power in a way. But we will have to wait until K3 or something official.


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Old 12-27-2007, 03:18 PM   #509
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Interesting topic question... I honestly don't know who would win... I did vote for Revan though because I think that his skills would greatly help in this 'fight'. On a second thought I think that either one could win this fight, actually. They are both very powerful beings, so I think that either one could win.

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Old 12-29-2007, 09:00 PM   #510
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This is a pretty tough fight if it was strictly a saber duel I say Revan. Force duel is close though I'm going with Nihilus. All out I say it would be close and I hate to say though Nihilus does stand a very considerable chance of winning.
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:00 PM   #511
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If i had to choose which i am givin that chance id say they both would kill eachother.....why, by the facts ive read in this HUGE thread it looks like Revan with his brilliant thinking might have not known about Nihilus's Force Life sucking something or w/e....and Nihilus never actually met revan so knowing that He would die from the Pure strength in physical fighting....


Nihilus=Force Master

Revan=Physical Master

I like both of em but thats just ME!!!!


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Old 01-07-2008, 04:38 PM   #512
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The more I read forum topics with Revan mentioned the more I learn that lots of ppl hate and underestimate his character...which is veeery sad. Ok I completely understand that there are lots of original Star Wars fans(movies, books..) and when such character like Revan appears and his creators make him soooo powerful and great you cant just agree with this...I saw a lot of **** about Revan being nothing compared to Anakin, or that Luke much more powerful...but this is very stupid to say, cos as creators of Star Wars Expanded Universe stated that Revan was the most powerful force user of his era (this inc. Marca Ragnos, Exar Kun, Bane, and etc...) and George Lucas stated himself that old jedi were more experienced and stronger with the force...So screw you all who say that Revan is only "a great military tactician" and that Luke pwns him... thats soooo ignorant.. And here is smth about Revans powers and achievements:

- Again, as a Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan is immensely powerful and considered to be one the most powerful of all time. According to another Sith Lord, Traya, he was power incarnate, looking at him was like "staring into the heart of the Force." He was strong enough to cause the entire Jedi Order to tremble. He was able to activate and take control of the Star Forge, a powerful Dark Side artifact, and survived the incredible Dark Side powers of Malachor V. Even after his mind was wiped, Revan regained his control of the Force extremely quickly, and the new Revan is perhaps the quickest Jedi ever trained next to Luke Skywalker.

- Revan's knowledge most likely matches or exceeds that of Darth Sidious. In a time when the Sith were very prominent, Revan not only studied every shred of knowledge the Jedi had to offer, but also studied ancient Sith holocrons, was taught by another powerful Dark Lord in a well of Dark Side energy on Malachor V, and visited Korriban as Sidious did. Knowledge was Darth Revan's fetish and it's likely he knew Sith magic as well.

- With a lightsaber, Revan is extremely dangerous. Already powerful and in control, he also has the ancient Sith holocron of Tulak Hord, the greatest lightsaber duelist to have ever lived. In addition, Revan is extremely experienced in lightsaber dueling, doing it on a regular basis and always emerging as victor.

- Tactically, Revan was a military genius. He is the almost sole reason the Republic won the Mandalorian War and very nearly destroyed the Republic despite Bastila's powerful morale controlling ability. During the Sith War, Revan purposefully left the Republic's infrastructure intact, so that even if he lost, he'd leave it stronger and more capable. He also utilized underlings like Sidious, particularly HK-47, to assassinate any destabilizing entities.

- Feats wise, Revan found and dominated the Star Forge, survived the Dark Side energies of Malachor V, converted many, many Jedi and half of the Republic fleet to his side, single-handedly defeated the leader of the Mandalorians and his army, and would have dominated the Republic, without destroying, through brute force, no subterfuge required. Arguably, Revan destroyed the Old Sith Empire, leaving the next truly dangerous Dark Lord of the Sith to be a mere Republic official - Sidious.

So saying that some monster like Nihilus would destroy him is childish..To me I think that Revan was too powerful in his connection to the force to let Nihilus suck even a spoon of it ))

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Old 01-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #513
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:06 PM   #514
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Not that I agree with everything you just said, but - does any of that have any indication of whether or not he would survive an attack from Nihilus? No. The Exile survived his encounter with Nihilus for one reason and one reason only - he was a wound in the Force. A vacuum. An echo. There was nothing there for Nihilus to drain, and when he attempted it, he was severely weakened.

Revan, no matter how powerful, is still a regular Jedi/Sith in terms of the type of power or abilities he has. In fact, even if he was as powerful as you claim, it would only make him an even more obvious target for Nihilus.


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Old 01-07-2008, 06:49 PM   #515
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And there never been stated that there is no defense against Nihilus's force drain ability. But it was stated in Kotor 2 that Nihilus and Sion started their open activities only after Raven disappeared so they were just afraid of his mere presence.Also it was said that Revan USED(controlled) the force not depended on it like all other force sensitives , that’s why he was able to use dark side powers not being fallen to the dark side.... Also he had an incredible will that helped him not to be consumed by Malachor 5 and Star Forge (which did it with the whole Rakata race)...
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:53 PM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWham
And there never been stated that there is no defense against Nihilus's force drain ability.
Kreia says, "There are techniques in the Force to which there is no defense." She says this while the cinematic that shows Nihilus using what seems to be nothing other than a small-scale version of his drain power to strip her of her power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWham
But it was stated in Kotor 2 that Nihilus and Sion started their open activities only after Raven disappeared so they were just afraid of his mere presence.
Nihilus doesn't even have control over his own actions. He is a slave to his power, so whether or not he was "afraid," as you say, of Revan is moot. Also, as far as I know, it is not exactly known when he mastered this ability to feed off life. Since he learned under Kreia at the Trayus Academy, it seems logical to believe that the power hadn't even consumed him enough at that time to take complete control over his actions, and it also seems that it wasn't advanced enough to be as devastating as it was when he attack Katarr.

Also, Revan disappeared in 3,955 BBY, and Nihilus didn't attack Katarr until 3,952 BBY, so if he was really "afraid" of Revan, there would be no sense in him intentionally waiting for 3 years before moving out. Besides, since his power controls him, it's not like he made a conscious choice not to attack until then. It just happened that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWham
Also he had an incredible will that helped him not to be consumed by Malachor 5 and Star Forge (which did it with the whole Rakata race)...
He did use his force of will to survive on Malachor, but he did so by giving in to the dark side energies that would've crushed him had he not given in. He did "fall" to the dark side, in a sense.


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Old 01-07-2008, 09:04 PM   #517
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No Revan never fall to the dark side watch this ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=44GeQp6ZFtc

Also take in consideration, that during that movie when Traya is being betrayed by two sith it is not stated who and what power used to cut her off the force. Actually during that phrase «There are techniques in the force…” Sion beats her with his fists and Nihilus does nothing (and even in the beg. of the movie he only used force push)….

P.S. Also you show yourselves to be quite childish while saying that the more powerful jedi is the better dish he'll be for Nihilus, that’s nonsense and bull****, cos the power of the jedi/sith is characterized not only by the amount of force within them but also by their ability to control manipulate and use the force all around them... So what makes you think Nihilus pathetic fanyboys that his mastery in hunger (uncontrolled and selfdestructiv )was way stronger than Revans or Lukes mastery of the force control(it is obvious that such powerful force users won’t let him just suck the force out them)?? Also admit it: Revan (not Sion, Nihilus, Traya etc.) was the MOST POWERFULL force user of the old era(its like 24000 years) ) (and probably Sith'ari), while Luke Skywalker was the most gifted of the new era...and yes its canon ))

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Old 01-08-2008, 02:56 PM   #518
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I said he fell "in a sense." He succumbed to it. It was his own choice to do it, but in order to survive, he fed on the dark side energies at Malachor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWham
Also you show yourselves to be quite childish while saying that the more powerful jedi is the better dish he'll be for Nihilus
How is that childish? Nihilus is drawn to large gatherings of power, whether it's several Jedi at once or one very powerful Jedi. That's how he found Katarr (where he killed an entire enclave of Jedi, let alone one powerful one). Simply because Revan is a very powerful Force user does not mean that he automatically knows of a way to stop Nihilus, and there is no evidence that he does know of such an ability.

Quote:
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So what makes you think Nihilus pathetic fanyboys that his mastery in hunger (uncontrolled and selfdestructiv )was way stronger than Revans or Lukes mastery of the force control(it is obvious that such powerful force users won’t let him just suck the force out them)??
Despite the beginning of that sentence not making any sense, I draw from it that you're accusing me of being a pathetic Nihilus fanboy. That's pretty hypocritical of you, seeing as how I'm no more of a Nihilus fanboy than you are a Revan fanboy.

Nihilus' hunger is unlike any Force power Revan has. It can't be controlled. It has a mind of it's own. It feeds on all life, and stops at nothing until it's satisfied (unfortunately for him, it's never satisfied). The only thing that can stop it is a void in the Force, like the Exile. Revan is not a void in the Force, and if you really want to take what Kreia says about him literally (the heart of the Force), then like I said, it only makes him an easier target for Nihilus. The larger the gathering of power, the more satisfying it is for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWham
Also admit it: Revan (not Sion, Nihilus, Traya etc.) was the MOST POWERFULL force user of the old era(its like 24000 years) )
I see no reason to admit that.


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Old 01-08-2008, 03:54 PM   #519
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Wow, I thought this thread died already and Revan was decided the victor


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Old 01-08-2008, 07:51 PM   #520
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Wow, I thought this thread died already and Revan was decided the victor
Read its history and you'll see that no such thing was ever done.

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Nihilus' hunger is unlike any Force power Revan has.
Indeed, and it is this failure to recognize such that that makes most of the Revan fanboys jump up and scream "bt he has teh unlimtd powerz he kild malak he controld teh star forg wtf is tis!!!!"

Anyone who has played through TSL and viewed all the dialogues about Nihilus (yes, that includes Kreia's - not coincidentally most Revan fanboys don't like talking to her either) would know that his abilities are not 'normal' ones in the sense those of most Force-wielders are. Were he to go head-on with most of the other Jedi Master/Sith Lords of the time in contests of lightsaber combat, Force-based telekinesis, physical endurance (ie everything the fanboys say makes Revan powerful) he would not score very exceptionally. On an IQ test he'd probably even score a 0.

His powers, which most fanboys simply can't seem to understand, are not based off any strength in the Force. He feeds on it and it keeps him alive, but it is not what he used to kill all the Jedi that he did. With normal Jedi the more Force power they have the stronger they are and the easier they can best other people, but as amazing a concept as it may be (actually it is) being strong in the Force is a weakness against Nihilus. The stronger in it his target is the more vulnerable they are to him. It's akin to a fat man seeing junk food; the more of it there is the more of it he will eat.

At this point most fanboys just yell out 'revan iz so powrfl hed kil nihlis enyway!!1!!1 he wud use a powr that cud blok nihlis's liyf drayn!!1!1' but it's fallacious. Again, the more power his target has the more vulnerable it is to him. If it uses Force energy to shield itself it will be even more so. As there is no evidence presented in the game to show that there is a threshold to the Force energy he can consume, such statements are nothing but unsupported and baseless fanboyism. And frankly after being able to consume whole planets and still be hungry, I really don't think that's an issue which can be considered.

So, we have this premise: The stronger in the Force a target is the more vulnerable it is to Nihilus. This is not up for debate; if someone wants to discount that (and the fact he gobbled up a planet with a planet full of Jedi Masters), then they obviously can't be reasoned with.

The premise established, the only possible way he can be killed is by something that has no energy he can consume, or worse, something that like him is a negative in the Force (like the Exile). This is not Exile fanboyism nor any bias against Revan; she was made a wound in the Force through the events and Malachor and Revan wasn't. If he had gone through similar events, he likely would have become a wound as well (and able to defeat Nihilus), but he didn't. It's poor luck of the draw.

There's also the previous thing I mentioned which could defeat Nihilus, things with no Force energy he could consume. There you have it; droids. Artificial and not living beings made of metal. Nihilus can't use his powers if there's nothing he can use them on. Send in a dozen or so droids and they'd shoot him dead, whether he can eat planets or not.

In any case, it is fallacious and a blatant contradiction of the events in the game to claim Revan would defeat Nihilus. (Like he does with everything else - what a boring character) When more Force power = more vulnerable to Nihilus, there is no logical way anyone can say Revan would win against him when fanboys argue how powerful is oh so often. The more they argue for that, the more they argue for him being gobbled up by Nihilus.

My whole point in case for those who'd rather not read all that:

You want to prove that Revan could defeat Nihilus? Then disprove the fact that being stronger in the Force = weaker against him. Until someone does any arguments about how powerful Revan is are irrelevant. Yes, irrelevant.

/rant


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