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Revan 149 74.13%
Nihilus 52 25.87%
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Thread: Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:16 AM   #161
The Architect
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*Sigh*

Looks like Iíll have to clear some things up here, to do with the topic that is.

First of all, not once have I claimed that Darth Nihilus was a force god. Secondly, I never said that if you praise Revanís abilities, then youíre a fan boy. Thirdly, what could Revan do to stop Nihilus?

Keep in mind that Nihilusí life draining ability stretches across thousands of miles, and he is drawn to great gatherings of Jedi and those who are strong in the force, like Revan, so if Revan even got within 100km of Nihilus, he/she would basically die. Nihilus would be able to detect Revan if he/she got Ďwithin rangeí.

Now, how does Nihilusí power work?

"My people never saw his face when he struck ó but they heard his voice. When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died. The destruction of Katarr echoed through the Force, the screaming of countless lives."
óVisas Marr

Now tell me why this wouldnít work on Revan? Iíd say this is game over. Why would Kreia (who taught Revan) infer to the Exile that if he/she didnít stop Nihilus then he would consume all life?

At the end of the day though, Revan is never going to fight Nihilus, so this discussion is pointless. And S_W_LeGenD, youíve strayed way off topic. This isnít about proving that Revan was powerful, this is about who would win in a fight between Revan and Nihilus.

Iíll just say one thing though. If Mission and T3-M4 were useless according to Revan for the battle of the Star Forge, then why did he/she take them with him/her on the Star Forge in the first place? To look after the Ebon Hawk? No. Thatís what those half a dozen Jedi Knights were there for.

You have to understand that Ďgameplay mechanicsí is the only reason why Revan never took all of his/her companions with him/her out of the Ebon Hawk for the Star Forge battle, since you can only take two companions at max. From a plot perspective, Revan would have taken all of his/her companions with him/her on the Star Forge.

And one more thing, I admit that Revan was powerful and unique in his/her timeline, but still IMO not great enough to be among the most powerful Jedi and Sith of all time. Revan is definitely overrated though, thanks to the stupid fan boys, who make rubbish claims that Revan was immortal, that Revan was alive in the movie era, that Revan was the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever, that Revan was the Sithíari, that Revan was Anakinís ancestor and blah blah blah. The list goes on.


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Old 12-10-2006, 03:11 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Secondly, I never said that if you praise Revanís abilities, then youíre a fan boy.
I guess you're referring to one of my posts/ sig? I never said you did that either. What I wrote was just a general comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Keep in mind that Nihilusí life draining ability stretches across thousands of miles, and he is drawn to great gatherings of Jedi and those who are strong in the force, like Revan, so if Revan even got within 100km of Nihilus, he/she would basically die. Nihilus would be able to detect Revan if he/she got Ďwithin rangeí.
That'd be so. But I think this VS thread is about each other knowing they're about to fight, face to face, and that's the assumption based on which we're all discussing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Now, how does Nihilusí power work?

"My people never saw his face when he struck ó but they heard his voice. When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died. The destruction of Katarr echoed through the Force, the screaming of countless lives."
óVisas Marr

Now tell me why this wouldnít work on Revan?
Of course this works on Revan, if like you said Nihilus is undetected by Revan and strikes from a distance. This paragraph was lifted out just to question Emerpor Devon's "proof" of Nihilus being able to drain life even when he's under major attack. That in turn was being discussed because we had the assumption that Revan and Nih were having a one on one, face to face fight as if in an arena.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Why would Kreia (who taught Revan) infer to the Exile that if he/she didnít stop Nihilus then he would consume all life?
What Kreia implied was true. I believe Nihilus do have this ability given how he destroyed an entire planet. But again, the matter comes down to whether he can exert this ability in close, immediate combat, in this one on one thread.

Now of course you'd say "one on one" could still mean they're fighting each other from a great distance. In that way, I'd concur that with absolutely no doubt Nihilus pawns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
And S_W_LeGenD, youíve strayed way off topic. This isnít about proving that Revan was powerful, this is about who would win in a fight between Revan and Nihilus.
Agreed. The previous discussion was way too off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
And one more thing, I admit that Revan was powerful and unique in his/her timeline, but still IMO not great enough to be among the most powerful Jedi and Sith of all time.
That's true. Or else he wouldn't have only started to appear in a video game anyway. Just kidding. But like we said, in terms of a force wielder he is definitely not among the most powerful, but a person is not only accounted on his amount of midichlorians. One strong in the force but with no brain can't flourish without the force. And Revan seems to me to be brainy enough, and with his wield of the force fairly strong, to rise over some jedi that you mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Revan is definitely overrated though, thanks to the stupid fan boys, who make rubbish claims that Revan was immortal, that Revan was alive in the movie era, that Revan was the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever, that Revan was the Sithíari, that Revan was Anakinís ancestor and blah blah blah. The list goes on.
All of these claims are pretty stupid, but one thing: I know Anakin is the Sith'ari, but is Revan? It seems to me he fits in with the definition quite well. But of course, if there could only be one sithari ever, it'd be Anakin, all because he's in the original movies.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:57 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
I guess you're referring to one of my posts/ sig? I never said you did that either. What I wrote was just a general comment.
The question is, what made you type that sig? My comments, perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
That'd be so. But I think this VS thread is about each other knowing they're about to fight, face to face, and that's the assumption based on which we're all discussing.
That's what I think too. This would mean that Revan would lose though. All Nihilus has to do is speak. No one is quick enough to counter that. No one. Besides, even if Revan was really quick, who says that Nihilus is a slow coach? Revan wouldn't be able to get close enough to Nihilus in the first place, since he'd detect him, speak, then Revan would die. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Of course this works on Revan, if like you said Nihilus is undetected by Revan and strikes from a distance. This paragraph was lifted out just to question Emerpor Devon's "proof" of Nihilus being able to drain life even when he's under major attack. That in turn was being discussed because we had the assumption that Revan and Nih were having a one on one, face to face fight as if in an arena.
Even if Revan detected Nihilus, why wouldn't it work? As I've said, Revan wouldn't be able to get close enough to Nihilus in the first place, since he'd detect him, speak, then Revan would die. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
What Kreia implied was true. I believe Nihilus do have this ability given how he destroyed an entire planet. But again, the matter comes down to whether he can exert this ability in close, immediate combat, in this one on one thread.
Why wouldn't he be able to? Why wouldn't this power work in close combat? All he has to do is speak. And again, Revan wouldn't be able to get close enough to Nihilus in the first place, since he'd detect him, speak, then Revan would die. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Now of course you'd say "one on one" could still mean they're fighting each other from a great distance. In that way, I'd concur that with absolutely no doubt Nihilus pawns.
That's right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
That's true. Or else he wouldn't have only started to appear in a video game anyway. Just kidding. But like we said, in terms of a force wielder he is definitely not among the most powerful, but a person is not only accounted on his amount of midichlorians. One strong in the force but with no brain can't flourish without the force. And Revan seems to me to be brainy enough, and with his wield of the force fairly strong, to rise over some jedi that you mentioned.
Agreed. Revan was powerful and well, intelligent...I guess. However, Revan was stupid for over estimating his/her abilities (if he/she sacrificed himself/herself to the dark side that is) and the so called 'master plan' to save the Republic by starting a massive war that would only weaken them was not only ridiculous but it ah, never turned out to be successful did it?

Also, it's quite odd how Revan never saw Malak's betrayal coming, since:

a) It is the way of the Sith
b) Revan should know his/her best friend well enough to have seen the betrayal coming
c) Malak is just that type of character to do such a thing

This answers your previous question of why I said Revan was stupid before. Mind you, I was being too harsh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
All of these claims are pretty stupid, but one thing: I know Anakin is the Sith'ari, but is Revan? It seems to me he fits in with the definition quite well. But of course, if there could only be one sithari ever, it'd be Anakin, all because he's in the original movies.
You know Anakin is the Sith'ari, yet you say that Revan fits in with the definition quite well? What the hell? How does Revan fit in with the definition quite well, and how do you know if Anakin is/isn't the Sith'ari?


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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Old 12-10-2006, 05:39 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
The question is, what made you type that sig? My comments, perhaps?
Yes, and that's because you were being unduly harsh, which you admitted. And I wondered why you were being unduly harsh, so it inspired me to write my sig. Not directed to you however, it's just an inspired comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
All Nihilus has to do is speak.
But you're not getting the point of argument here. Yes, Visas said all the jedi there only heard him speak, and they died. But what's being questioned here is how much focused Nihilus has to be when he drains the hell out of everything. He can speak and kill, but he may have to be focused while doing so. I just wanna point out that there's no evidence whatsoever that points to a definitive conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
You know Anakin is the Sith'ari, yet you say that Revan fits in with the definition quite well? What the hell?
Why, the two sentences can't co-exist logically? Why "what the hell"? Even if Anakin was really the Sithari, sure others can be speculated to FIT IN with the definition of it. I was merely suggesting a possibility, for the sake of open discussion. You didn't really have to get all heated and WTH me. That's just uncalled for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
How does Revan fit in with the definition quite well
Other than Anakin, Revan and Darth Bane are speculated to be the sithari. Why, because they all seem to fit in with the definition of the sith'ari to a certain extent. For details you can look at some discussions in the internet or wookiepedia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
and how do you know if Anakin is/isn't the Sith'ari?
How do I know Anakin's the sathari? Well, I don't know. He's just one of the popular candidates speculated by the public, others being Revan and Darth Bane. I apologize I used the wrong word.

It's futile to go on arguing on things that beget different outcomes based on various assumptions. Like I said, better case closed.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:14 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Evln
Yes, Visas said all the jedi there only heard him speak, and they died. But what's being questioned here is how much focused Nihilus has to be when he drains the hell out of everything. He can speak and kill, but he may have to be focused while doing so. I just wanna point out that there's no evidence whatsoever that points to a definitive conclusion.
Well, we know from Nihilus' fight with the Exile that he can use his drain powers even during a fight when he's taking damage. The cut content shows a similar fight between Nihilus and Sion. We can discard that as cut content, but not Nihilus' fight with the Exile. And it's pretty clear to me that the Exile would have died in that fight, had the Exile not been a wound in the force that Nihilus cannot drain. Basically, Nihilus was trying to suck down a void and was himself drained for it. And as far as I can tell that is the ONLY reason the Exile can win that fight, because once Nihilus uses his drain-power, it's game over and somebody's going to die. Now the Exile is a definite problem as a wound in the force, but Revan would be tasty meal, precisely because Revan IS powerful in the force. In this case it only works against Revan, because strong force powers are what attracts Nihilus and nourishes him. So from a distance, we all seem to agree that Revan would be doomed, and in close we know Nihilus can still use his draining powers even in a fight. I don't see how Revan can ever win such a fight.


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Old 12-10-2006, 06:21 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Not sure, but I'd be surprised if they were less than Yoda's, absorbing power apparently being what Nihilus does best.
An assumption and thats it. Not very convincing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Electricity damage is electricity damage, no matter how you deliver it. You're either protected from or you're not. So coming from different angles might not matter a whole lot, unless you're using some sort of physical shield to deflect it, which is not relevant in this case.
Electricity damage is deadly to living bodies. It causes horrible burns and continuous zapping from it will kill an individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
20-30 yards is already pushing it with a war quite literally going on outside.
Still is safe distance. Sion was only 7-8 feet away when Nihilus launched his attack on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
That's an impressive display of force lightning and no mistake. But yes, lightning does come close to that. The arc is just wider than usual.
No! normal Lightning does not comes close to that. Their are several Lightning bolts in Sidious's attack and this does not happens in case of normal Lightning attack (because normal Lightning cannot hit so many individuals). Get your eyes checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Well, I can scarcely argue with you there, because the "hit points" or "vitality" of d20 games is one of my own pet peeves with that system. Lightning should paralyze and cause horrible burns and so, as it did with Luke, but the game rules don't reflect that sort of thing at all, which is one reason why I really hate d20 rules. Still, if we abandon them completely, then we have no basis for discussion. Or we get to claim whatever with want to. Neither of which is very enlightening.
So you are also having troubles with rules applied in "Game Mechanics" as well. So why not admit this in clear terms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Actually, I've always thought that Obi-Wan used Force Heal or some version of it on Luke, when he put his hand over him after the Sand People attack in Episode IV. Isn't it odd that Luke is struck down and lies there unconscious, apparently lifeless, but when Obi-Wan bends over him, he wakes up immediately? Definitely something going on there, I think. So it's not as if there is no basis in canon for claiming that. And if we accept Force Resistance, then it's easy to accept Force Immunity, since it really is just a more powerful version of the same ability. I'd say it's about the same ability as you call Force Deflect. Besides, I can find no entry for Force Deflect on Wookieepediea, whereas Force Immunity is right here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Immunity
Force Immunity is not canon and we don't see this power being demonstrated in Novels and Movies. And Novels and movies are greater canon materials then Games.

Wookieepedia is not 100% perfect and I have mentioned this before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It was, because Sidious never got to fire that lightning attack fully. He kept pushing for it, but then so did Yoda. The result was not that Yoda was fried. No. The result was that resonance of power between the two caused a burst that sent them both flying. Yoda just happened to be unlucky that this sent him flying to the bottom of the senate hall, whereas Sidious was able to hold onto the side of the "chair." Clearly the power is not unstoppable, and given Sidious' level of power with this ability, it's rather impressive that Yoda was able to keep it at bay at all. But he did.
Yoda managed to counter it but he was semi-successful. But in case of Dooku, he properly countered his Lightning attack, so difference is clear.

And Yoda fell apart and where he actually fell is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Actually, most of them do, only you might not notice that, since the game balances all your enemies to reflect your new power level, and therefore nothing seems to change. If you don't want to argue game rules, then fair enough, but if you do, you should at least take a look at how those mechanics work first. It's not as if there aren't plenty of game guides out there that explain it all.
Yes! I am not using "Game Mechanics" and I will not do that because some rules used in "Game Mechanics" are not accurate in terms of Canonical Reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Yes, but my point is that the rules don't reflect that possibility. D20 combat rules is just boring dice-rolling until someone drops dead. There is no surprise or strategy in them IMHO, which is my major problem with them.
So "Game Mechanics" have its own flaws and are not ideal in debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
You have claimed it, but you have not convinced me. It still seems obvious to me that Yoda blocked Sidious' attack. If you look carefully, you'll even see that Yoda wants to jump Sidious with his lightsaber, but Sidious zaps him, knocking his lightsaber out his hands. Yoda is right on the edge already, YET HE DOESN'T FALL OVER. In fact, had Yoda moved backwards at all, he would have fallen down already, so clearly lightning doesn't strike as strongly as you suggest. Sidious then pushes the attack, and Yoda begins to deflect it. As Sidious pushes forward and pours power into the attack, you'll note Yoda deflecting it and befriely leaning backwards from the assault, before he then begins actually PUSHING THE ATTACK BACK ON SIDIOUS. Indeed, he pushes it all the way back to Sidious' very hands, at which point the collision of power between the two of them "erupts" in a burst that sends them both flying. If you want to see it, the entire bit begins exactly 1 hour 48 minutes and 55 seconds into the movie on my dvd. And yes, I've just checked it again to make sure I'm right
Yoda blocked Sidious attack with his "Force Deflect" ability and not with the Light Saber. Their is clear distinction between these two blocking abilities. And Yoda's defense was semi-successful and finally he falls apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Ah, "uber-power not available to other people." Always nice. But wait, Obi-Wan deflected Dooku's lightning attack with HIS lightsaber in Episode II. Although you can claim that Sidious is more powerful, that does seem to speak against your point that Windu doing so is completely unique for that character alone, I think.
Obi-Wan does not knows Vaapad. And Dooku's mastery in Lightning is not on par with that of Sidious. My points are clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Just because Yoda didn't pull it off does not mean that it's not possible. Obi-Wan did it against Dooku, and Yoda and Sidious are both stronger than either of them.
Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the movies. His defensive abilities are far better then that of Luke in ROTJ. So if Yoda failed to block Sidious's Lightning with his Light Saber, then Luke stands no chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
But suddenly Force Storm is instant in canon? Why? Because otherwise your argument is flawed? As others have pointed out, we actually don't know that Revan's use of Force Storm then wasn't a continuous lightning attack against the One's warriors and beasts either.
Force Storm attack has been described in a narration and narrations are canon. And also Force Storm has been demonstrated by Darth Bane and this was mentioned in POD Novel, and Novels are higher source of canon then Games. So Force Storm is clearly canon power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Although Leia that power is called Force Storm, it clearly is not the Force Storm power you have been describing here. And we certainly have no basis for claiming that Revan has that power. Especially not since Luke reveals that having used that power, Palpatine has unleashed a chaos that even he cannot control. Revan was always careful about that sort of thing - always the strategist, he never unleashed anything he couldn't control himself. That's why he never used the Star Forge to its full potential, after all.
I know that Force Storm (demonstrated in DE by Sidious) is a different power. But my point is that not all canonical powers are limited to a certain radius and this power is one such example. And I have never claimed that Revan has this power so stop putting words in my mounth as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
So even then there are limits, because even Palpatine couldn't control that power, and obviously it did not destroy the entire Alliance fleet. Also, by merely focusing on separating Palpatine from his use of the power, Luke and Leia turn it on Palpatine himself. As impressive a display of destruction as it is, you really do have to admit that this very force storm is also what destroys Palpatine himself in that confrontation. So I don't think it's a power that Revan would ever use, and certainly not in a casual encounter with a few rakatan warriors and other beasts. And that's assuming Revan even has the power, which I find highly doutbful.
Leia used "Battle Meditation" ability to stop it. Now Nihilus does not have this ability or does he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Ah, but you have no canonic use of Force Storm to support that claim. The only canonic use of Force Storm you have mentioned is a description by The One, and we have no idea how instant or continuous that Force Storm was. Force Lighting is instant in the game mechanics, just as Force Storm is. But you say lightning is more continuous in canon. Might the same not then also apply to force storm? That would seem to be a reasonable conclusion to me.
Yes! I have provided two things that make Force Storm canon:

- Narration.
- POD Novel.

And in case you forgot that The One also said that Revan's attack came from above (Sky) and then hit his warriors. Normal Lightning does not hits individuals from above.

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Old 12-10-2006, 06:29 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
Well, we know from Nihilus' fight with the Exile that he can use his drain powers even during a fight when he's taking damage...
I see. Where actually shows that he used the drain powers against the exile? If so, I overlooked it. That would wrap things up then.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:40 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Evln
I see. Where actually shows that he used the drain powers against the exile? If so, I overlooked it. That would wrap things up then.
I hear people saying that you can avoid Nihilus using this power, but I've never been able to avoid it myself - every time I play through that fight, I get a scene where Nihilus tries to use a power using the Drain Life animation, and then he stumbles over briefly, as if he's having a fit, while the Exile just stands there wondering what is going on.

It's at this point the Exile should have said, "Must be something you absorbed!"

But even if it's possible to avoid that sequence in the game (and I've never known that to happen myself), my point is that Nihilus can do it. And I think he's be more likely to do it to Revan, since Revan is basically soaking in Force, while the Exile is dry as a sponge. Revan would be irresistible to Nihilus. He'd take one sniff and go "yummy!"


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Old 12-10-2006, 06:59 AM   #169
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... funny and apt metaphors.

But after that scene someone said "It's still consuming you doesnt it", so I took it that he just sort of "ran out of force", like the drug addicts do when they run out of drugs. Didn't know he actually tried to use his drain powers. Maybe I will play K2 some more.
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:32 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Electricity damage is deadly to living bodies. It causes horrible burns and continuous zapping from it will kill an individual.
I would rather not be drawn into this discussion again, but I need to point out some things. So Revan's apparent attack on the Rakata didn't kill them instantly, that's what you're saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Still is safe distance. Sion was only 7-8 feet away when Nihilus launched his attack on him.
That is cut content. It was never included in the game. Therefore, it is not canon.

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Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda managed to counter it but he was semi-successful. But in case of Dooku, he properly countered his Lightning attack, so difference is clear.

And Yoda fell apart and where he actually fell is irrelevant.

Yoda blocked Sidious attack with his "Force Deflect" ability and not with the Light Saber. Their is clear distinction between these two blocking abilities. And Yoda's defense was semi-successful and finally he falls apart.
Yoda was not semi-successful and he did not fall apart- he was successful.

The reason he lost his lightsaber was not because Sidious' lightning was so powerful, it was because he was taken by surprise.

Yoda successfully blocked Sidious' lightning. He first attempted to absorb it, but that was unssuccessful, so he decided to shoot it back at Sidious. The contact between the lightning and Sidious' hands created an explosion which blasted them both backwards.

And the location of where they fell is relevant. As we see, Sidious falls on the side of the "chair" where there is a rail to hold on to. Yoda happens to fall on the side where there is a long drop with nothing to grab.


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Old 12-10-2006, 04:58 PM   #171
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That is cut content. It was never included in the game. Therefore, it is not canon.
I don't know if you can really say that. In the New Essential Guide to Droids they say that HK-47 and the HK-50's destroyed GO-TO on Malachor V allowing Remote to reactive (or rather deactive) the MSG. And that never appeared in game, but is now considered canon.


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Old 12-10-2006, 05:28 PM   #172
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I would rather not be drawn into this discussion again, but I need to point out some things. So Revan's apparent attack on the Rakata didn't kill them instantly, that's what you're saying.
That was an attack from a Force Storm actually and this power is much more devastating then normal Lightning. See the image of Sidious's attack as a reference.

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Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
That is cut content. It was never included in the game. Therefore, it is not canon.
I don't really care.

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Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
Yoda was not semi-successful and he did not fall apart- he was successful.

The reason he lost his lightsaber was not because Sidious' lightning was so powerful, it was because he was taken by surprise.

Yoda successfully blocked Sidious' lightning. He first attempted to absorb it, but that was unssuccessful, so he decided to shoot it back at Sidious. The contact between the lightning and Sidious' hands created an explosion which blasted them both backwards.

And the location of where they fell is relevant. As we see, Sidious falls on the side of the "chair" where there is a rail to hold on to. Yoda happens to fall on the side where there is a long drop with nothing to grab.
Look Buddy!

Yoda is not an immature Jedi who will always be surprised by Sidious moves. He was holding his Light Saber firmly in his hand and Sidious Lightning struck with such a strong intensity that it blew Yoda's Light Saber out of his hand. And Yoda was semi-successful in blocking Sidious Lightning because his defence resulted in a blast and he fell apart. But this was not the case in Dooku's fight, in which Yoda successfully blocked Dooku's Lightning without any difficulty.

And I have said before that his place of fall is irrelevant.
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:33 PM   #173
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Can a Mod close this thread please, It's becoming a Spam fest.

Maybe it's not, but I've caught a lot of spam, like the post above, the last part of it.... who cares about Yoda, this is between Revan and Nihilus

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Old 12-10-2006, 08:03 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Evln
Yes, and that's because you were being unduly harsh, which you admitted. And I wondered why you were being unduly harsh, so it inspired me to write my sig. Not directed to you however, it's just an inspired comment.
That makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Evln
But you're not getting the point of argument here. Yes, Visas said all the jedi there only heard him speak, and they died. But what's being questioned here is how much focused Nihilus has to be when he drains the hell out of everything. He can speak and kill, but he may have to be focused while doing so. I just wanna point out that there's no evidence whatsoever that points to a definitive conclusion.
What Jediphile said. It's so much easier just to type that.

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Originally Posted by Evln
Why, the two sentences can't co-exist logically? Why "what the hell"? Even if Anakin was really the Sithari, sure others can be speculated to FIT IN with the definition of it. I was merely suggesting a possibility, for the sake of open discussion. You didn't really have to get all heated and WTH me. That's just uncalled for.
But you said that you know Anakin is the Sith'ari. So if you know that Anakin is the Sith'ari, then why are you speculating that Revan could be the Sith'ari? This doesn't make any sense, unless their can be more than two Sith'ari's.

That is where my what the hell came from. And I wasn't getting heated, it was more of a calm, confused, mockery what the hell, not an angry, negative, leave me alone what the hell.

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Originally Posted by Evln
Other than Anakin, Revan and Darth Bane are speculated to be the sithari. Why, because they all seem to fit in with the definition of the sith'ari to a certain extent. For details you can look at some discussions in the internet or wookiepedia.
Nah. To be honest, I don't really care. I just wanted to know why you said that you know Anakin is the Sith'ari, but also speculated that Revan could be too. As you've said, it was just bad wording.

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Originally Posted by Evln
It's futile to go on arguing on things that beget different outcomes based on various assumptions. Like I said, better case closed.
About the Sith'ari thing, and how powerful Revan is? Yes. About who would win in a fight between Revan and Nihilus? No. I don't see how Revan could beat Nihilus.


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Old 12-10-2006, 08:05 PM   #175
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Well, it's obvious that you won't listen to anything I say, so we might as well forget it. And if you wish to continue posting in this thread, I suggest that the conversation go back to the real topic.


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Old 12-10-2006, 08:48 PM   #176
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About the Sith'ari thing, and how powerful Revan is? Yes. About who would win in a fight between Revan and Nihilus? No. I don't see how Revan could beat Nihilus.
Revan is a militray tactican. It is unknown how good a general he is, but he is responsible for winning Malachor V, so he might be somewhat good, using deception to win.

Therefore, the only way I could see Revan winning against Nihlius is by finding the Exile and using her to defeat Nihlius, and then taking credit for the victory. In other words, by "cheating".
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:06 AM   #177
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So if you know that Anakin is the Sith'ari, then why are you speculating that Revan could be the Sith'ari? This doesn't make any sense, unless their can be more than two Sith'ari's.
Indeed that makes sense. When I said "I know Anakin is the Sith'ari, but is Revan? It seems to me he fits in with the definition quite well", I was merely suggesting that other than Anakin, Revan (and Bane) fit in with the definition as well, and both could be the Sith'ari. Fitting in the definition doesn't mean one IS the Sith'ari, thus I wasn't implying there are 2 sith'ari.

I know I used the wrong word, but you should know NO ONE actually knows who's the sith'ari. You could have done better than taking the literal meaning of what I typed and make a deal out of it. The focus of what I typed wasn't even that- it was the possibility of Revan being the Sith'ari, since you questioned it at first.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:44 PM   #178
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Why are people arguing over how powerful Revan was or Yoda was or Sithari or whatever?

That's all irrelevant to the actual debate.

I don't think anyone is denying that Revan would beat Nihilus in a traditional fight. Revan is, after all, a master swordsman, and Nihilus did in fact suck.


The only question is, could Nihilus use his drain power to kill Revan? And the answer is a most probable yes.


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Old 12-11-2006, 09:39 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Revan is a militray tactican. It is unknown how good a general he is, but he is responsible for winning Malachor V, so he might be somewhat good, using deception to win.

Therefore, the only way I could see Revan winning against Nihlius is by finding the Exile and using her to defeat Nihlius, and then taking credit for the victory. In other words, by "cheating".
Touche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Indeed that makes sense. When I said "I know Anakin is the Sith'ari, but is Revan? It seems to me he fits in with the definition quite well", I was merely suggesting that other than Anakin, Revan (and Bane) fit in with the definition as well, and both could be the Sith'ari. Fitting in the definition doesn't mean one IS the Sith'ari, thus I wasn't implying there are 2 sith'ari.

I know I used the wrong word, but you should know NO ONE actually knows who's the sith'ari. You could have done better than taking the literal meaning of what I typed and make a deal out of it. The focus of what I typed wasn't even that- it was the possibility of Revan being the Sith'ari, since you questioned it at first.
Who said I was making a deal out of it? Besides, you've realised that you used the wrong wording, so it's fine. Of course I know that no one knows who the Sith'ari is.

That's why I pointed out what you said, because you said that you know that Anakin is the Sith'ari, which is wrong. Then when you speculated that Revan and Bane was the Sith'ari, I was confused, because you had just said that you know that Anakin is the Sith'ari.

I wanted to make you aware that you had made a mistake, not to make you look stupid, but just to let you know, in case you weren't aware of it, as I assume that would be a good thing, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JawaJoey
I don't think anyone is denying that Revan would beat Nihilus in a traditional fight. Revan is, after all, a master swordsman, and Nihilus did in fact suck.

The only question is, could Nihilus use his drain power to kill Revan? And the answer is a most probable yes.
No, Nihilus didn't in fact suck. That is just your opinion. Whether Nihilus sucked or not depends entirely upon your own point of view.

The only question is, why wouldn't Nihilus drain power work on Revan, since after all, Revan is just like those Jedi who died on Katarr? The only difference is, he/she is presumably more powerful than all those Jedi on Katarr, but that just makes things worse for Revan, since their is more power for Nihilus to feed upon, which is what he is, the 'Lord of Hunger'.


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Old 12-12-2006, 12:23 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by The Architect
No, Nihilus didn't in fact suck.
I meant in combat, I was not judging him as a person or character. That would be an objective assessment on my part. The fact that he was not a difficult fight, however, is not related to my point of view at all.

I'll word it nicer for you.
"He was remarkably unimpressive in combat."
There, happy?



PS, I know that will lead to an argument over how much trying to drain the Exile weakened Nihilus, and I'll argue about that, but regardless, I still believe that given a best case scenario for Nihilus, Revan would still most likely win (still disregarding Nihilus' drain, of course).


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Old 12-12-2006, 02:15 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by JawaJoey
I'll word it nicer for you.
"He was remarkably unimpressive in combat."
There, happy?
Yeah, we happy

Because I think even The Architect will agree that Nihilus was unimpressive in direct combat. As much as I like Nihilus, it was really anti-climactic how quickly he went down. Still, that's gameplay and not canon, where he appears to have been powerful indeed. It's just too bad they didn't scale him to be a more formidable foe.

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Originally Posted by JawaJoey
PS, I know that will lead to an argument over how much trying to drain the Exile weakened Nihilus, and I'll argue about that, but regardless, I still believe that given a best case scenario for Nihilus, Revan would still most likely win (still disregarding Nihilus' drain, of course).
But how can you disregard Nihilus' drain? If we compare game-Nihilus with super-ultra-powerful-uber-game-Revan, then Revan might win, but that's stacking the deck against Nihilus - his drain ability is his most prominent feature - that would be like taking away Revan's powerful ties to the Force and saying, "without that he cannot win". Well, duh... But then in that case it's not Revan, because that connection is part of who Revan is. In the same manner, his draining ability is a central part of Nihilus and more so than Revan's powers are to him, since Nihilus is basically a void without will or intellect. Nihilus IS his hunger. You cannot separate the two. And Nihilus would use his draining ability, because that's what he does.


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Old 12-12-2006, 02:37 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawaJoey
I meant in combat, I was not judging him as a person or character. That would be an objective assessment on my part. The fact that he was not a difficult fight, however, is not related to my point of view at all.

I'll word it nicer for you.
"He was remarkably unimpressive in combat."
There, happy?
Yep. Me happy. But hey, how was I supposed to know what exactly you meant? I am not The Profit god damn it!

But yes, Nihilus was piss easy to defeat in combat. Despite the fact that there was a valid reason why Nihilus was supposed to be an easy beat, they made him too easy and it was disappointing, because I want the villains to be tough damn it! I hope that 'the big guns' of K3 are going to be hard, I mean, very hard, to beat, otherwise I will fall to the DS.

You have to understand the difference between gameplay and the plot. At the end of the day, feats, force powers, stats, skills and all that crap has nothing to do with the outcome of a fight. Luke defeating Vader in RotJ is a good example of this. It's the author/s that decide who wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JawaJoey
PS, I know that will lead to an argument over how much trying to drain the Exile weakened Nihilus, and I'll argue about that, but regardless, I still believe that given a best case scenario for Nihilus, Revan would still most likely win (still disregarding Nihilus' drain, of course).
And just why the hell would you disregard Nihilus' drain, since that is apart of who he is?


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Old 12-12-2006, 03:10 AM   #183
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how was I supposed to know what exactly you meant? I am not The Profit god damn it!
In fact you should have known. This is what he typed:

"I don't think anyone is denying that Revan would beat Nihilus in a traditional fight. Revan is, after all, a master swordsman, and Nihilus did in fact suck."

The context of it tells you something about what he meant by "suck". The first time I read it I took the meaning that he intended. I think The Architect focuses too much on part of a whole sentence and occasionally forgets to look at the rest. Well, no bad intention here. Just thought I'd let you know in case you don't.

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Originally Posted by The Architect
And just why the hell would you disregard Nihilus' drain, since that is apart of who he is?
But I do agree with this. It's part of him and should not be omitted just to let Revan win, so much as we can't strip Revan from the Force and see how well he could actually fight.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:54 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Evln
In fact you should have known. This is what he typed:

"I don't think anyone is denying that Revan would beat Nihilus in a traditional fight. Revan is, after all, a master swordsman, and Nihilus did in fact suck."

The context of it tells you something about what he meant by "suck". The first time I read it I took the meaning that he intended. I think The Architect focuses too much on part of a whole sentence and occasionally forgets to look at the rest. Well, no bad intention here. Just thought I'd let you know in case you don't.
You're beginning to sound like MacCorp. Taking things out of context am I? Yes, I incorrectly assumed what JawaJoey was talking about, however, that is partly due to the fact that I know he doesn't like Nihilus' character, therefore their was the possibility of him meaning that Nihilus sucked as a character, not in terms of gameplay.

So, care to explain why I should have known what he meant? If anything, him mentioning that Revan is a master duellist is not a gameplay thing, that is to do with the plot, since in K1, in the gameplay, we never see any evidence of Revan's master duelling skills. Well, at least I never saw any.

So when he said Nihilus sucked and just mentioned Revan's master duelling skills, I didn't know he was talking about the gameplay, I thought he was talking about Nihilus' abilities plot wise and/or the fact that he doesn't like Nihilus when he said he sucked.

Now, since I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay (the thought didn't occur to me at the time), since he mentioned about Revan's duelling skills, plot wise, and since I know he doesn't like Nihilus when he said he sucked, wasn't it reasonable for me to assume what I assumed?

Why should I have known what JawaJoey was talking about, when he never explicity said what he meant when he said Nihilus sucked?


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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Last edited by The Architect; 12-12-2006 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:50 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Architect
Yes, I incorrectly assumed what JawaJoey was talking about, however, that is partly due to the fact that I know he doesn't like Nihilus' character, therefore their was the possibility of him meaning that Nihilus sucked as a character, not in terms of gameplay.
Makes sense. He might indeed think Nihilus sucks even in terms of character. But I would not assume someone to be biased just because I know he dislikes the character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
So, care to explain why I should have known what he meant? If anything, him mentioning that Revan is a master duellist is not a gameplay thing, that is to do with the plot, since in K1, in the gameplay, we never see any evidence of Revan's master duelling skills. Well, at least I never saw any.
I see what you're getting at. But whether it's in the gameplay is irrelevant. What's relevant is is he referring to the fighting skills of the characters. First, he said "I don't think anyone is denying that Revan would beat Nihilus in a traditional fight." No matter whether you agree with it or not, it's obvious he's referring to the fighting skills of the characters, by "traditional fight".

Then he went on to say, "Revan is, after all, a master swordsman, and Nihilus did in fact suck." This actually aimed to support the previous statement that Revan would win in a tradtional fight. Whether "master swordsman" is real or agreeable or not, again it's distinctively referring to fighting skills, sheer fighting skills. This in addition to the first statement, makes it logical and natural to infer that "suck" refers to the fighting skills of Nihilus as well, not his draining abilities or his character, because otherwise he wouldn't have come to the conclusion of "Revan winning in a traditional combat".

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Now, since I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay (the thought didn't occur to me at the time), since he mentioned about Revan's duelling skills, plot wise, and since I know he doesn't like Nihilus when he said he sucked, wasn't it reasonable for me to assume what I assumed?
Your flow of thought is too complicated. It isn't the gameplay or plot or other that matters. It's essential just to be able to see that he's referring to sheer fighting skills of the character, as I explained in the the prior paragraph.

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You're beginning to sound like MacCorp. Taking things out of context am I?
Why am I sounding like MacCorp? What's he like?
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:34 PM   #186
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No, it is relevant, because in terms of gameplay, Nihilus did indeed suck, however in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone, except the Exile, so because I thought he was talking about the plot, when he said Nihilus sucked, I did not agree with that. I already told you why when he said 'Revan was a master swordsman' why I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay.

Then I stopped and thought, wait a minute, he mustn't be talking about the plot, because no one could say Nihilus sucked in terms of power from a plot perspective, so he must be talking about the character. Gameplay never occured to me.

Another point you're missing is that I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay, because it is a simply irrelevant point and I thought JawaJoey understood that.

Nihilus didn't 'in fact' suck, because their is no evidence to suggest that he sucked in combat without his draining ability. Gameplay has nothing to do with how good he was in combat (without his draining ability).

Anyway, lets drop this please. I still don't see why I should have known JawaJoey was talking about the gameplay, but so what? There's nothing more to see here. Move along. Move along.

Oh and about MacCorp, that's a long story. I said you're beginning to sound like him, because you, like him, accussed me of taking things out of context and focusing on one part of a sentence and forgetting the other part.


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Old 12-12-2006, 10:01 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Architect
Nihilus didn't 'in fact' suck, because their is no evidence to suggest that he sucked in combat without his draining ability. Gameplay has nothing to do with how good he was in combat (without his draining ability).
There's no evidence that suggests the contrary either. You keep saying Nihilus should be much harder to beat according to the plot. But the plot is, as far as I see, merely suggesting that Nihilus has a devastating draining power. His fighting skills? We do not know. Him being strong in the force? Maybe, as he could keep the scrapped Ravanger together through the Force. But still, I don't see the plot saying he's a good fighter other than the god-like draining power.

As you and jediphile argued earlier against Revan, the gameplay is all we can take reference from when no other authoritative source suggests otherwise. But now for Nihilus you say gameplay has nothing to do with his ability, notwithstanding absence of proof that says otherwise. You certainly don't think you're a little bit biased here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
No, it is relevant, because in terms of gameplay, Nihilus did indeed suck, however in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone, except the Exile, so because I thought he was talking about the plot, when he said Nihilus sucked, I did not agree with that. I already told you why when he said 'Revan was a master swordsman' why I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay.
Ah, but if all come into play, why then, did you get it all after Jawajoey said "I meant he sucked in combat"? He didn't even specific whether he meant "plot combat" or "gameplay combat".

Look, you're still having this blind spot here. Yes, in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone except the Exile, but only because of his draining ability. You agree with that? If yes, then see, Jawajoey made a Presumption of Nihilus and Revan having a traditional fight when only sheer fighting skills count. It was in his opinion that without the draining ability Nihilus would not win because he's not as good a fighter as Revan. So indeed, even in terms of plot, Nihilus could "suck", because Jawajoey made a presumption of having a "traditional fight".

Why then, did you not get it? Because, as indicated by my quote of yours,
You presumed Nihilus could beat anyone even without the draining ability. But as explained in my earlier paragraph, this presumption is, indeed, questionable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Another point you're missing is that I didn't think he was talking about the gameplay, because it is a simply irrelevant point and I thought JawaJoey understood that.
It being irrelevant doesn't make you overlook what Jawajoey was trying to say. His point was irrelevant, but he still meant what he meant.

We should have moved along. But as now we're having a turn of discussion concerning Nihilus's sheer combat skill, plot-wise, which is relevant to the topic, we may as well continue.

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Old 12-13-2006, 03:24 AM   #188
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There's no evidence that suggests the contrary either. You keep saying Nihilus should be much harder to beat according to the plot. But the plot is, as far as I see, merely suggesting that Nihilus has a devastating draining power. His fighting skills? We do not know. Him being strong in the force? Maybe, as he could keep the scrapped Ravanger together through the Force. But still, I don't see the plot saying he's a good fighter other than the god-like draining power.
I don't see the plot not saying he's a good fighter either. Whether he was or not is debatable, since their was no definitive answer given in the game. The reason why I think that Nihilus should have been harder to beat is because it was anti-climatic how Nihilus went down so easily, not because I've said he was a good fighter, because the truth is, I don't know if he was or wasn't. I'm not going by how hard he was in the gameplay. Why should I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
As you and jediphile argued earlier against Revan, the gameplay is all we can take reference from when no other authoritative source suggests otherwise. But now for Nihilus you say gameplay has nothing to do with his ability, notwithstanding absence of proof that says otherwise. You certainly don't think you're a little bit biased here?
Not at all. I challenge you to quote me for ever saying that the gameplay is all we can take reference from when no other authoritative source suggests otherwise. I did not say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Ah, but if all come into play, why then, did you get it all after Jawajoey said "I meant he sucked in combat"? He didn't even specific whether he meant "plot combat" or "gameplay combat".
What else could he have meant, since their wasn't any proof in K2 that Nihilus' did/didn't suck in "plot combat'? I assumed he understood this, so figured he was talking about the gameplay, not the plot, since in "gameplay combat", he did suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Look, you're still having this blind spot here. Yes, in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone except the Exile, but only because of his draining ability. You agree with that? If yes, then see, Jawajoey made a Presumption of Nihilus and Revan having a traditional fight when only sheer fighting skills count. It was in his opinion that without the draining ability Nihilus would not win because he's not as good a fighter as Revan. So indeed, even in terms of plot, Nihilus could "suck", because Jawajoey made a presumption of having a "traditional fight".
What does this have to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
Why then, did you not get it? Because, as indicated by my quote of yours,
You presumed Nihilus could beat anyone even without the draining ability. But as explained in my earlier paragraph, this presumption is, indeed, questionable.
I DID NOT presume that Nihilus could beat anyone even without the draining ability. I challenge you to prove that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evln
It being irrelevant doesn't make you overlook what Jawajoey was trying to say. His point was irrelevant, but he still meant what he meant.

We should have moved along. But as now we're having a turn of discussion concerning Nihilus's sheer combat skill, plot-wise, which is relevant to the topic, we may as well continue.
No we shouldn't really continue, because we simply don't know if Nihilus was/wasn't good at saber combat 'plot wise' since their isn't any proof to suggest if he was/wasn't. We don't even know if Revan would/wouldn't win against Nihilus without his draining ability.


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Old 12-13-2006, 04:40 AM   #189
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Ok, I ain't gonna do all the quoting again. And this is getting unnecessarily messy. In short, it's plain simple: Jawajoey, throughout his little paragraph, has been referring to "fighting". As a matter of fact, it's implied that he was also referring to fighting, i.e. combat, when he said Nihilus "sucks". If you don't get it, then fine by me.

And for that quote you said you didn't say, my wrong, maybe it's Jediphile. Sorry about that. But this you did say: "in terms of gameplay, Nihilus did indeed suck, however in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone, except the Exile." Now that you've clarified, I take that you meant in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone with his draining ability. I mistook your meaning as him beating anyone in combat then, because in the first sentence you were talking about combat in gameplay. With all due respect, you may consider expressing with more clarity next time then.

But I just wanna point out that, the fact that Nihilus's fighting is anti-climatic doesn't make the gameplay not consistent with plot, as you seem to imply in your previous arguments here (however you deny it) and in this thread. Maybe he's meant to be weak in combat. Since no other sources suggest otherwise, we might just as well refer to the gameplay as "canon", that his fighting sucks.

I don't know MacCorp, but if someone shared the same opinion that I gave, I don't know, maybe it's true in some context. But, Architect, I meant no hostility. I just pointed out something I found questionable. I hope we're friends, genuinely. So, .
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Old 12-14-2006, 03:19 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
Ok, I ain't gonna do all the quoting again. And this is getting unnecessarily messy. In short, it's plain simple: Jawajoey, throughout his little paragraph, has been referring to "fighting". As a matter of fact, it's implied that he was also referring to fighting, i.e. combat, when he said Nihilus "sucks". If you don't get it, then fine by me.
I admit I should have known he was talking about combat and not Nihilus' character. But, should I have known that he was talking about gameplay combat, not plot combat? No. I've already explained why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
And for that quote you said you didn't say, my wrong, maybe it's Jediphile. Sorry about that. But this you did say: "in terms of gameplay, Nihilus did indeed suck, however in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone, except the Exile." Now that you've clarified, I take that you meant in terms of plot, Nihilus could beat anyone with his draining ability. I mistook your meaning as him beating anyone in combat then, because in the first sentence you were talking about combat in gameplay. With all due respect, you may consider expressing with more clarity next time then.
Why would I need to clarify that? Why would I dismiss Nihilus' draining ability? You can't do that. It's simple. In terms of gameplay, Nihilus did suck, he was weak. In terms of plot though, he could beat anyone except for the Exile. It's the truth, because whether he was good at saber combat or not is irrelevant, because of his draining ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
But I just wanna point out that, the fact that Nihilus's fighting is anti-climatic doesn't make the gameplay not consistent with plot, as you seem to imply in your previous arguments here (however you deny it) and in this thread. Maybe he's meant to be weak in combat. Since no other sources suggest otherwise, we might just as well refer to the gameplay as "canon", that his fighting sucks.
I don't agree with that, because no one from a plot perspective has said that Nihilus' sucked in saber combat either. You can make an assumption based on the gameplay if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know if his fighting skills did/didn't suck.

I could very well argue that the Exile's super gameplay build and the level 50 cap were the reasons why Nihilus appeared to suck in combat. I wouldn't take stats, skills, force powers, feats and all that crap with a grain of salt. Hey, maybe the Exile was an awesome duelist, better than Revan perhaps. We just don't know, or do we? I do not claim to be an expert on this type of stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
I don't know MacCorp, but if someone shared the same opinion that I gave, I don't know, maybe it's true in some context. But, Architect, I meant no hostility. I just pointed out something I found questionable. I hope we're friends, genuinely. So, .
Friends? I wouldn't say that, because you don't know me, and I don't know you. That's not to say I don't like you or anything, but friends is not the term I'd use.

Forum buddy? Yeah, sure. Why not? I have nothing against you. You're all that and a bag of potato chips IMO (I assume you've seen Austin Powers)? No offence taken to what you've said at all. You're fine by me.

About MacCorp? Well, check out this topic and see for yourself so you can make a decision on that matter if you want:

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=168988


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Old 12-14-2006, 10:13 AM   #191
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All that and a bag of potato chips?... I'm told it means "someone who think they're the greatest".

And I know we don't really know each other. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything then.

...Now I start to wonder why am I even here in this forum.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:38 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
All that and a bag of potato chips?... I'm told it means "someone who think they're the greatest".
It's more to the tune of "and much more" or "and even more".. not necessarily an insult in this context

Just for clarification the term has many meanings so it's a little rough to interpret the intention on a forum without being able to emphasize/augment how it's stated or pronounced...

Just like the word "Dude" can have many thousands of interpretations "Dude!" "Dude?" "Duuuuuude"


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Old 12-14-2006, 07:52 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by The Sith'ari
All that and a bag of potato chips?... I'm told it means "someone who think they're the greatest".

And I know we don't really know each other. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything then.

...Now I start to wonder why am I even here in this forum.
No no. I meant it as a good thing, as a compliment. And no, I'm not going to say that you should have known what I meant. I don't see why you'd say that maybe you shouldn't have said anything because you don't know me, because you can say what you like on this forum, as long as you're not spamming, necroposting or being a troll.

I don't dictate what you can/can't say on this forum. No one does. Even though their are rules (and good ones at that too, that should be followed) it still doesn't stop you from posting what you want.

You're not even sure why you are here on this forum? Surely you must know why. Because you like most the posters at LF and you like the KotOR games, right? That has to be it. I hope you stay at this forum.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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Old 12-14-2006, 11:16 PM   #194
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I think I just came up with another way Revan could "cheat" his way to defeat Nihlius. Prehaps, it might be considered a pretty legit method.

Run.

Revan, being a smart being, would know that Nihlius has his Force Drain ability, and knows that Nihlius would beat him in a fair fight. So, Revan withdraws to what is really his strength: being a stragisit. Sure, we don't know how good a general he is, but he won the Battle of Malachor V, so whatever his methods, it works.

Revan has a great mentor named Kreia who taught him all he knew, and then some. Revan would have realized that Nihlius is consumed by his hunger, that he will do whatever it takes to sastify his hunger, and the more powerful he is, the stronger his hunger becomes, until all life in the galaxy is destroyed.

So, I assume Revan would just run. He would do whatever it takes to misdirect Nihlius, send him to destroy worlds that have no Force Senstivies at all, that have no Jedi at all. Nihlius would waste time, and energy defeating these worlds, searching for Revan. Revan would send in strike teams, knowing that they would die, but it will act as a distraction to Nihilus, and distractions are key. The more time Revan can bide, the more time his hunger can work against Nihlius. If Revan gets lucky, Nihlius will finally starve to death. And Revan wins.

Kreia said about Nihlius that he is already dead, that the only thing that matters is how many worlds he eats before he falls. Kreia believed that if he isn't stopped now, he may become impossible to stop in the future, and all that one can do is avoid Nhilus and run, waiting for Nihlius to die of hunger, like Revan possibly would have done.

[Kreia actually hoped the Exile wouldn't have to fight him, worried that the Exile will lose, and hopes that the Exile would be prepared to kill off Visas to weaken him... (How ironic that Kreia feels this fear...since the Exile is a wound in the Force, meaning that he's the only one that can kill off Nihlius. Of course, knowing Kreia, I'll assume that "mistake" is just another Kreia Lie).]
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:11 PM   #195
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Let me play devil's advocate here. WHERE IS NIHLIUS WHEN REVAN STARTS THIS CRUSADE? That's right, Nihlius is LEARNING under Kreia. Who would have won? I really don't know. And nobody knows until they face one another. The only point I wish to make is that REVAN, one of the greatest JEDI and SITH LORDS of all time, would (or at least could) have found a way to beat Nihlius. There could be some technique that Revan finds that allows him to supress his force sensitivity, or whatever, then all Revan has to do is rely on his lightsaber skills. I believe him to be a better saberist than Nihlius, since Nihlius's strength is feeding off of force sensitives.To help further this arguement or debate in view of REVAN winning the bout, remember Episode II when Yoda met Dooku in the cave on Genosis. We all agree that you can't get much stronger then Yoda as far as being able to apply all that has been learned to the Force, however, Yoda makes the comment that Dooku has become VERY strong; and as a result they have to result to the battle of lightsabers and, in the end, Dooku's skills do not match Yoda's hence his fleeing of the cave by distracting Yoda with placing Anakin and Obi Wan in danger so that Dooku could escape. The same would apply to Revan and Nihlius, Revan would devise some way to "negate" Nihlius's Force Drain and the duel would resort to lightsabers with Revan emerging victorious. But let me also say, it wouldn't surprise me if Revan lost. He could be overconfident and thereby underestimate his opponent. Nothing is for certain.
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:24 PM   #196
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Hi, welcome to the forums, and please excuse the actions of ANAKIN, he is a Jedi/Sith by the way.
I would have to say Revan will kick Nihilus tail, due to the fact that Revan is like the Chosen One of that time
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:44 PM   #197
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Thank You and I got it.
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:10 PM   #198
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Jedi Kaybee, you are basing your argument on assumptions, and that just isnít good enough. You say that Revan would find some way to negate Nihilusí force drain, when you canít be certain of that. That just sounds like fanboy crap to me.

At this point in canon, no such mysterious force power that would prevent Nihilusí draining power from working on a regular force user like Revan exists. Why? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe such a power does not exist?

No character in Star Wars history has this mysterious anti-Nihilus power you speak of, so until it is proven otherwise, you have to assume that it doesnít exist. The likes of Kreia, Atris, Vandar, Kavar and Vash knew of no such anti-Nihilus power, so why would Revan be any different? What, because itís the all mighty, all knowing, invincible Revan?

If youíre going to base your argument on a biast supposition, then Iím entitled to assume that Nihilus could have some mysterious force power that would prevent this anti-Nihilus power from working, arenít I?


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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Old 01-02-2007, 10:20 PM   #199
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Jedi Kaybee, you are basing your argument on assumptions, and that just isnít good enough. You say that Revan would find some way to negate Nihilusí force drain, when you canít be certain of that. That just sounds like fanboy crap to me.

At this point in canon, no such mysterious force power that would prevent Nihilusí draining power from working on a regular force user like Revan exists. Why? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe such a power does not exist?

No character in Star Wars history has this mysterious anti-Nihilus power you speak of, so until it is proven otherwise, you have to assume that it doesnít exist. The likes of Kreia, Atris, Vandar, Kavar and Vash knew of no such anti-Nihilus power, so why would Revan be any different? What, because itís the all mighty, all knowing, invincible Revan?

If youíre going to base your argument on a biast supposition, then Iím entitled to assume that Nihilus could have some mysterious force power that would prevent this anti-Nihilus power from working, arenít I?
Well I'm gonna have to battle in his defense.... there are Force Techniques that are... Unknown.... and perhaps Revan learned them, when going to the Unknown Regions... we have no Idea what's out there...... there could be a Force Sensitive Race, that could have held the key to killing Nihilus, had the Exile not been a wound in the Force, and Nihilus not effecting him/her.

So in truth... Revan could have known of them yes... and perhaps Kreia did to, but was testing the Exile of Power....
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:33 PM   #200
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Well I'm gonna have to battle in his defense....
Is that so? We have formed a rivalry then, have we? A friendly rivalry of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker
there are Force Techniques that are... Unknown.... and perhaps Revan learned them, when going to the Unknown Regions... we have no Idea what's out there...... there could be a Force Sensitive Race, that could have held the key to killing Nihilus, had the Exile not been a wound in the Force, and Nihilus not effecting him/her.

So in truth... Revan could have known of them yes... and perhaps Kreia did to, but was testing the Exile of Power....
Iím not saying that such a power couldnít exist, but currently, in Star Wars canon, there is no proof that such a power exists, so until it is proven otherwise, it is not wrong for me, or anyone else to assume that such a power doesnít exist.

You also have to remember that I, just like anyone else, can assume that Nihilus knew of some mysterious force power that prevents the anti-Nihilus power from working. In other words, if one can assume that an anti-Nihilus power exists, then another can assume that an anti-anti Nihilus force power exists too.

That is why arguments like this should be based only on what we know of from the games and other canon sources.


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