lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar
View Poll Results: Who would win in a fight?
Revan 149 74.13%
Nihilus 52 25.87%
Voters: 201. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Sorry, this thread is closed. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 04-27-2007, 09:06 PM   #281
Emperor Devon
36 Wings, 365 Eyes
 
Emperor Devon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,479
Current Game: Ass Effect
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
They're alive, but I don't think they're Force-sensitive. Their presence just dampens it.

It's quite possible he could eat them, though. Beyond canceling out the Force they're normal creatures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
We will be great failures one day, you and I
Emperor Devon is offline   you may:
Old 04-27-2007, 09:35 PM   #282
Melly
Junior Member
 
Melly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fixing things with Bao-Dur...
Posts: 274
They create a bubble around themselves in which the Force doesn't exsist. They do this to keep the vornskrs (who hunt using the Force) from eating them.


"They may not call you a Jedi anymore, but believe me you are. It's not the sort of thing you just stop being. You're stuck with it. Just like you're stuck being the General."
~Bao-Dur, The Sith Lords
Melly is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 03:41 AM   #283
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I have no quarrel or doubt about Revan's strategic abilities. If that comes into play, then I'd put my money on Revan. However, I think in this case we're talking about a straight one-on-one fight, and I don't see how Revan could possibly win that. Nihilus could drain him dry long before Revan ever got close enough to do anything to him.
It is not so easy as you make it out to be. Remember that Revan was a master practitioner of Force Lightning. And you should know that a powerful burst of Force Lightning is highly lethal to any living being.

It depends upon that how fast Nihilus can react.

- If Revan hits first, he wins.
- And if Nihilus hits first, he wins.

And do note that Revan is no push-over for any person in combat.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 03:46 AM   #284
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not so easy as you make it out to be. Remember that Revan was a master practitioner of Force Lightning. And we know that strong burst of Force Lightning is highly lethal for any living being.
Revan has no particular high skill with force lightning. Sure he could do it, and since he was fairly powerful, he was good at it, but that's about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
It depends that how fast Nihilus can react.

- If Revan hits first, he wins.
- And if Nihilus hits first, he wins.

Revan is no pushover for any person in combat.
Nor was the entire CONCLAVE of Jedi on Katarr. Yet they all bit the dust, no problem. Revan may be powerful, but not more than the entire conclave of jedi. You'd think at least a few of them could react before Nihilus... but then unlike Nihilus, they cannot use their powers from an orbiting distance.

It's not a question of Revan being a pushover - it's a question of Nihilus being powerful in a way that most jedi, including Revan, are powerless again.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 06:46 AM   #285
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
A slight problem with that theory, though...

Kreia (about Nihilus): "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

So no, Revan could have learned it because that is not possible. Besides, Kreia has been in the Trayus Academy longer than Revan, and while we can argue her strength in the force next to Revan's, she is far more of a scholar than Revan will ever be. So I think it's fair to assume that if the power could be learned, or defended against, then Kreia would have learned both. And yet she says, even as we see the cutscene where Nihilus unpowers her:

Kreia: "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense."
Once again! You put too much faith on Kriea, which is not advisable. I will explain how.

First of all, Kriea is a Sith Lord in disguise and wise Sith Lords never reveal all the sensitive information they know even to their apprentices or they would be considered as fools. Kriea even kept her true identity hidden for a long period from Exile, because she wanted to further her goals and Exile was the perfect tool.

Revan too did not reveal all he knew to Malak.

The technique that Nihilus demonstrated can be learned. He actually did not invent it, he learned it from somewhere but the important thing to note is that Nihilus took that power to a new level due to his un-controlled hunger.

Kriea believed that that technique cannot be taught but that is her opinion. Or it is possible that she is not telling Exile the whole truth.

And when Kriea reached Malalchor V, it was already a destroyed planet with only few places intact and lots of sources of information were lost.

But when Revan reached Malalchor V, it was a fully intact planet and and according to a canon source "The Chronicles", Malachor V harboured several cities and tombs that contained immense knowledge about the Sith and not just the Trayas Academy.

Here is the exact quote: Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side.

Now you see that Kriea could not gain as much knowledge from Malachor V as Revan did because few places of that planet remained intact after the destructive Mandalorian war.

So Revan obviously gained more knowledge.

And being a great scholar does not means that you surpass all in terms of knowledge. Revan gained tremendous knowledge by traveling to so many regions that we do not know. He not only gained immense knowledge but also discovered those things that remained hidden for thousands of years. Kriea never made such discoveries.

I can safely say that Revan’s knowledge base is superior to that of Kriea. Like it or not, Kriea is not an all knowing person.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 04-28-2007 at 07:23 AM.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 07:02 AM   #286
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Revan has no particular high skill with force lightning. Sure he could do it, and since he was fairly powerful, he was good at it, but that's about it.
You are sadly mistaken if you think like this. Did you noticed that Malak was a master practitioner of Fore Lightning (in the first game)?

He could torture and break the will of strong Jedi with his Force Lightning. He could even instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning , if he wanted to and he demonstrated this capability on the Star Forge.

Now Revan was more powerful then Malak in many aspects of the Force. And Drew says that Revan was also a master practitioner of Force Lightning. Guess what? an opinion of an expert matters more then that of yours.

So your logic holds no water here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Nor was the entire CONCLAVE of Jedi on Katarr. Yet they all bit the dust, no problem. Revan may be powerful, but not more than the entire conclave of jedi. You'd think at least a few of them could react before Nihilus... but then unlike Nihilus, they cannot use their powers from an orbiting distance.
You are making an illogical comparison here. I never said that Revan was more powerful then all those Jedi combined together. Even Yoda was not that powerful.

I never doubted the fact that if Revan gets caught in that Super-Drain attack of Nihilus, he will not survive. Of-course! he will not.

But destroying an entire planet is a different thing then attacking a single powerful and experienced Jedi or Sith, who is standing near you and ready to kill you.

A person can actually dodge an attack but a planet cannot. Nihilus will need to focus on the Revan's position and launch an attack with some degree of precision. But how quickly it will generate and reach the intended target, is questionable. And Revan can quickly "Force-Jump" right in to the position of Nihilus and slice him with his Light Saber. It is not that difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It's not a question of Revan being a pushover - it's a question of Nihilus being powerful in a way that most jedi, including Revan, are powerless again.
I agree that most Jedi are powerless against Nihilus' Super drain but the outcome in an actual 1 on 1 fight is determined by several factors and not just by power.

Do you remember that how Anakin destroyed Count Dooku on that ship (as shown in ROTS Movie)? Although Dooku was capable enought to defeat Anakin through the Force but Anakin denied him that chance.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 04-28-2007 at 07:53 AM.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 09:37 AM   #287
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
The technique that Nihilus demonstrated can be learned. He actually did not invent it, he learned it from somewhere but the important thing to note is that Nihilus took that power to a new level due to his un-controlled hunger.
That is pure speculation. You can doubt Kreia, but she remains the only source of information we have on Nihilus' power, so I'll take her word over, well, no source at all whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
But when Revan reached Malalchor V, it was a fully intact planet and and according to a canon source "The Chronicles", Malachor V harboured several cities and tombs that contained immense knowledge about the Sith and not just the Trayas Academy.

Here is the exact quote: Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side.

Now you see that Kriea could not gain as much knowledge from Malachor V as Revan did because few places of that planet remained intact after the destructive Mandalorian war.
Though you have quoted correctly, your conclusion remains only speculative.

Revan gaining more knowledge than Kreia is questionable at best. One very obvious point of doubt is time. Revan was in the middle of fighting a war, while Kreia had years to ponder over the secrets of the Sith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are sadly mistaken if you think like this. Did you noticed that Malak was a master practitioner of Fore Lightning (in the first game)?
And how do we know this of Revan's abilities? From "The One", a very evil person and therefore at least as questionable a source of information as Kreia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
He could torture and break the will of strong Jedi with his Force Lightning. He could even instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning , if he wanted to and he demonstrated this capability on the Star Forge.
All entirely speculative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are making an illogical comparison here. I never said that Revan was more powerful then all those Jedi combined together. Even Yoda was not that powerful.

I never doubted the fact that if Revan gets caught in that Super-Drain attack of Nihilus, he will not survive. Of-course! he will not.
Thank you for conceding that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
But destroying an entire planet is a different thing then attacking a single powerful and experienced Jedi or Sith, who is standing near you and ready to kill you.

A person can actually dodge an attack but a planet cannot. Nihilus will need to focus on the Revan's position and launch an attack with some degree of precision. But how quickly it will generate and reach the intended target, is questionable. And Revan can quickly "Force-Jump" right in to the position of Nihilus and slice him with his Light Saber. It is not that difficult.
Complete speculation. You cannot state that as fact when we just don't know if that is possible. And the closest source we have would suggest otherwise...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2_4r6GjgWDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you remember that how Anakin destroyed Count Dooku on that ship (as shown in ROTS Movie)? Although Dooku was capable enought to defeat Anakin through the Force but Anakin denied him that chance.
That's also subject to speculation, but it's a moot point since we cannot assume that it applies in any way to Nihilus.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.

Last edited by Jediphile; 04-28-2007 at 09:48 AM.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 09:59 AM   #288
Marauder's Fury
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 88
EagerWeasel, the words "fact" and "fiction" don't look quite harmonious from where I'm standing.

No doubt it's best to contribute in any kind of discussion with logical and grounded conclusions, but this is exactly what I tried to do in my first post, not the opposite. If you followed my logic, you wouldn't draw such a conclusion, since none of those Jedi you mentioned knew the secrets Malachor V had held. Having studied from many many more sources than most of the Jedi we've heard the names of so far, Revan probably learned more about how the Force works than we could ever speculate here. It's only convenient if he learned how the Force can be used to drain the life essence from anything that is connected to it, and in addition, how one can render themselves immune against this technique.

From what I've seen so far, being fully aware of the threat is the biggest step towards countering a technique in the SW universe.

Besides, I wouldn't take anything Kreia said at face value; that would be a grave, even ridiculous, error. However, if one's to give her credit... She may have said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense, but she's also the one who said "Nothing is impossible with the Force."
Marauder's Fury is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 11:12 AM   #289
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder's Fury
No doubt it's best to contribute in any kind of discussion with logical and grounded conclusions, but this is exactly what I tried to do in my first post, not the opposite. If you followed my logic, you wouldn't draw such a conclusion, since none of those Jedi you mentioned knew the secrets Malachor V had held. Having studied from many many more sources than most of the Jedi we've heard the names of so far, Revan probably learned more about how the Force works than we could ever speculate here. It's only convenient if he learned how the Force can be used to drain the life essence from anything that is connected to it, and in addition, how one can render themselves immune against this technique.
Which has just the problem you describe in that it's speculative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder's Fury
Besides, I wouldn't take anything Kreia said at face value; that would be a grave, even ridiculous, error. However, if one's to give her credit... She may have said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense, but she's also the one who said "Nothing is impossible with the Force."
While you shouldn't take anything Kreia says at face value, her comments are often interesting if taken quite literally. The annoying thing about Kreia is that she never quite lies, but she never quite tells the truth either. Like when she infers to the exile that the masters had something to do with his loss of the force, but without ever saying it. She wants the exile to think it, but she just gives enough half-truths and loaded questions to plant the idea without actually saying it, because she knows that's not the truth. She's a sly, old hag. I rather like her


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 11:52 AM   #290
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
That is pure speculation. You can doubt Kreia, but she remains the only source of information we have on Nihilus' power, so I'll take her word over, well, no source at all whatsoever.
It is a logical deduction actually and I have explained about the true nature of a Sith Lord in simple words. Remember that people do lie and do not speak the truth all the time. SW characters are no exceptions to this and it includes Kriea as well.

What Kriea says is not always right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Though you have quoted correctly, your conclusion remains only speculative.
Speculative? you seem to have no counter argument then? Not very convincing indeed. My conclusion is based on the observation from that quote.

I have told you the reason (backed by a source) that why Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V then Kriea. There should be no doubt about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Revan gaining more knowledge than Kreia is questionable at best. One very obvious point of doubt is time. Revan was in the middle of fighting a war, while Kreia had years to ponder over the secrets of the Sith.
No it is not.

Revan had ample time to explore several worlds to study Sith and it is not necessary that he was always busy in the War. He explored the forbidden world of Malachor V during the Mandalorian Conflict.

Apart from this he journeyed to several worlds for discovery of Star Forge. He even explored the world of Korriban and the tombs of the ancients that you see in the KOTOR were all discovered by Revan. He then established that Korriban Sith Academy near those tombs and initiated more excavation programs to discover more secrets of the Sith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
And how do we know this of Revan's abilities? From "The One", a very evil person and therefore at least as questionable a source of information as Kreia.
The One is not the only source. You failed to note that Malak was actually trained in the ways of the Sith by Revan. So what Malak demonstrated, Revan already knew those techniques. And not to forget the fact that Revan did not taught Malak all the techniques he knew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
All entirely speculative.
Nice argument. Either generate a counter-argument or quit debating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Thank you for conceding that point.
I always agree with facts. You don't need to thank me for this but you are still welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Complete speculation. You cannot state that as fact when we just don't know if that is possible. And the closest source we have would suggest otherwise...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2_4r6GjgWDI
Do you need everything to be spoon-fed to you from some sources to understand? Force Jump is an ability that is taught to most Jedi Knights. Revan is a Jedi Knight and he can perform that kind of attack using this ability.

And that video is a cut-content material. Not all consider it to be an authenticated source for argument, so my question still remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
That's also subject to speculation, but it's a moot point since we cannot assume that it applies in any way to Nihilus.
How it is a moot point? I gave an example of a fight in the movies, in which Anakin managed to over-whelm Dooku through his impressive speed and elite saber skills. He never gave Dooku enough chance to use Force attacks on him and Dooku lost.

If Revan Force-Jumps right in to the position of Nihilus with his ignited Saber and strikes, Nihilus will be in serious trouble and he will have no option but to counter with his Saber (if he manages to draw it out in time) but even then he will loose.

Thus I have stated a single possibility in which Revan can gain advantage over Nihilus.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 04-28-2007 at 12:29 PM.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 01:23 PM   #291
JediMasterJambi
Rookie
 
JediMasterJambi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I'm In The Box Right Next To You, The One With The Floating Disembodied Head In It
Posts: 99
Encore!

...There are but few words to reply to JEdiPhile's thread, as Awsome, or Great fall short of how good that FACT (:P Screw Theory! I think its true!) is. SO I SHALL LET THE SIMILES DANCE INSTEAD!







No, but in all seriousness, thats a freaking awsome post, GJ JediPhile. More than enough to change my mind about Nhil.

SO I have offically changed my mind about this battle..NHIL WOULD PWN REVAN > . <


Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho
Your wish is granted...
Long live Jambi...

Last edited by JediMasterJambi; 04-28-2007 at 02:05 PM.
JediMasterJambi is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 01:37 PM   #292
Marauder's Fury
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Which has just the problem you describe in that it's speculative.
So? Do you propose we should sink ourselves in a pile of TotJ books and the like and gather enough 'evidence' to support our 'claims' if we wanna be worthy enough to put in our two cents? I stated who I think would have a better chance in a hypothetical duel and I gave my reasons. Backed up by novels or not, that's what I find more reasonable and I've wasted enough time "fighting for my cause" already. Nobody's forced to see things my way, and if you think there's anything that sounds illogical in my argument, feel free to bring it forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
While you shouldn't take anything Kreia says at face value, her comments are often interesting if taken quite literally. The annoying thing about Kreia is that she never quite lies, but she never quite tells the truth either. Like when she infers to the exile that the masters had something to do with his loss of the force, but without ever saying it. She wants the exile to think it, but she just gives enough half-truths and loaded questions to plant the idea without actually saying it, because she knows that's not the truth. She's a sly, old hag. I rather like her
Not that simple. She lies on the Exile's face here and there, in times when it seems the most effective course of manipulating her. What you say is true most of the time, but not all the time. However, although she never said that there's no known defense against Nihilus' power, perhaps she's indeed unaware of any such defense, thus directing us towards such a supposition. Sorry... I'm speculating again. I apologize.

And why do you like that sly, old hag? Because I like her too and I'd like to find the reason.

Last edited by Marauder's Fury; 04-28-2007 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Spacing.
Marauder's Fury is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 02:25 PM   #293
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is a logical deduction actually and I have explained about the true nature of a Sith Lord in simple words. Remember that people do lie and do not speak the truth all the time. SW characters are no exceptions to this and it includes Kriea as well.

What Kriea says is not always right.
Not necessarily, no. Oddly, I find that Kreia never actually tells a complete lie if you examine what she actually does say ever so carefully. That said, I'll freely admit that if Kreia told me water was wet, I would check with at least three other people before I believed her

And I take it rather than believe Kreia for lack of better source, you prefer to believe, well, whatever you prefer to believe? Well, I do see your point... Claiming whatever you like and dismissing the only source you have out of hand does make it much easier to make the claim. Don't expect me to be convinced, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Speculative? you seem to have no counter argument then? Not very convincing indeed. My conclusion is based on the observation from that quote.
Yes, but I've read the quote too, and my conclusion is rather different, so where does that leave us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have told you the reason (backed by a source) that why Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V then Kriea. There should be no doubt about this.
And yet there is. What does that tell us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan had ample time to explore several worlds to study Sith and it is not necessary that he was always busy in the War. He explored the forbidden world of Malachor V during the Mandalorian Conflict.
I don't think he did so as intensively as Kreia did later, because he was fighting a war at the same time. My take on Revan is that he is dedicated to his goals to fault. Almost hellbent, once he is set on a course. He would not be as determined as he is, if that were not so IMHO. It's one of the things that makes him a good strategist. So on that basis I must respectfully disagree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
The One is not the only source. You failed to note that Malak was actually trained in the ways of the Sith by Revan. So what Malak demonstrated, Revan already knew those techniques. And not to forget the fact that Revan did not taught Malak all the techniques he knew.
Which tells us nothing of Revan's abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nice argument. Either generate a counter-argument or quit debating.
I try not to make unfounded arguments. I prefer to base mine on what evidence can be gleaned from the sources available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you need everything to be spoon-fed to you from some sources to understand? Force Jump is an ability that is taught to most Jedi Knights. Revan is a Jedi Knight and he can perform that kind of attack using this ability.
And Nihilus used his power from orbit over Katarr, which would be at least, what, 20000 miles? Revan can force jump that far, I take it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
And that video is a cut-content material. Not all consider it to be an authenticated source for argument, so my question still remains.
It was cut, but it went far along into production to be written, so I think it's fair to assume that it is at least descriptive of what sort of powers the writers intended for Nihilus to have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
How it is a moot point? I gave an example of a fight in the movies, in which Anakin managed to over-whelm Dooku through his impressive speed and elite saber skills. He never gave Dooku enough chance to use Force attacks on him and Dooku lost.
It's moot because - as I said before - we have no idea whether the same principle can be applied to Nihilus. So even if I agreed with that what you say here is true, it would still tell us nothing that is relevant to the question of whether Revan could do this to Nihilus or not. And no, I'm not saying whether I agree with you or not, because I don't feel I need to make up my mind on the issue, since it's just redundant to the matter at hand IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
If Revan Force-Jumps right in to the position of Nihilus with his ignited Saber and strikes, Nihilus will be in serious trouble and he will have no option but to counter with his Saber (if he manages to draw it out in time) but even then he will loose.

Thus I have stated a single possibility in which Revan can gain advantage over Nihilus.
Which I humbly disagree with for the reasons stated above.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-28-2007, 05:36 PM   #294
Melly
Junior Member
 
Melly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fixing things with Bao-Dur...
Posts: 274
I would also like to point out (and I apologize if someone said it already) that Kreia wants Nihilus dead. The Exile is the key to doing that, and it would be in Kreia's best interest to tell the Exile everything she knows about him.


"They may not call you a Jedi anymore, but believe me you are. It's not the sort of thing you just stop being. You're stuck with it. Just like you're stuck being the General."
~Bao-Dur, The Sith Lords
Melly is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 12:18 AM   #295
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melly
I would also like to point out (and I apologize if someone said it already) that Kreia wants Nihilus dead. The Exile is the key to doing that, and it would be in Kreia's best interest to tell the Exile everything she knows about him.
Exactly. Seriously, it is nonsensical to think that Kreia would lie about such a thing.

Even if Revan learned more than Kreia at the Trayus Academy, so what? That doesn’t mean he/she could negate Nihilus force drain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
That is nothing but speculation, that Revan would no doubt find a way to counter Nihilus’ draining power. We should only base our arguments on what has been established in the games (and other canon sources outside of the games, but related to the games).

Because otherwise you can just make up anything you want. Does an anti-Nihilus power exist? Well yes… the Exile is that power, technically speaking. But does an anti-Nihilus power apart from the Exile exist? Perhaps. Maybe there is; maybe there isn’t. We don’t know do we?

I would have to say no however, since in cut content, Darth Sion couldn’t defend himself at all
against Darth Nihilus, and Darth Traya knew of no technique that would negate Nihilus’ force draining power.

If she did, there’s no question she’d tell the Exile what it is, since she desperately wants Nihilus to be stopped in TSL. And you see, Sion and Traya without doubt had accessed to and studied at the Trayus Academy, and since they didn’t discover any anti-Nihilus power, I doubt Revan did either.

Anyhow, if you want to play the supposition game to support Revan, I can assume that an anti-anti Nihilus power exists, can’t I? In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as an anti-Nihilus force power that regular force users like Revan could use in his/her defence.

Seriously, that is nothing but speculation. That sounds just like fan-boy nonsense crap to me. Sorry, but it does.

Revan would just bond Nihilus to himself/herself?

First off, do you agree that Revan would have to get close to Nihilus in the first place to do this? If so, well, your argument has already been defeated.

Because Nihilus drained the entire life of a planet from orbit, meaning that he can detect force users from thousands of miles away and use his power from that distance. So how the hell could Revan get anywhere near Nihilus, without him detecting his/her powerful force sensitivity, and then eating him/her for breakfast?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Nihilus would kill Revan for sure. No question. I wish the Revan fan-boys would stop letting their huge bias get in the way of their arguments. It truthfully is as irritating as Malak’s laugh.
I’d love to see how anyone could bring down this argument.

What, can Revan force jump thousands of miles, as Jediphile’s said? Can Revan kill someone approximately 30 000km away from him/her with force storm?


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 01:59 AM   #296
Shem
Master of the Force
 
Shem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,904
Current Game: Variations of games
10 year veteran! Veteran Modder Notable contributor Hot Topic Starter 
A lot of you know that I'm the manager of the KOTOR of FileFront. I'm running a poll this week that I started today and won't be changed until next Saturday. Just to give you an idea how people are trigger happy about voting for Revan, even if Revan isn't related to the subject matter. Check this out.

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/poll/

Read some of the responses and everything. I proved a point that I figured out a long time ago. Putting Revan in a poll at a KOTOR fan based website is pointless.


Interested in hosting a your KOTOR or TSL mod at FileFront? Send your mod HERE and we'll validate it as soon as we can! FileFront is a good way to get publicity for your mod as we get 1000's of visitors everyday. Is my LucasForum PM box full again? If you really need to reach me, PM me at YouTube under the username: Shem L -- Watch my KOTOR videos! Download my mods from FileFront!

Shem is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 02:40 AM   #297
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Not necessarily, no. Oddly, I find that Kreia never actually tells a complete lie if you examine what she actually does say ever so carefully. That said, I'll freely admit that if Kreia told me water was wet, I would check with at least three other people before I believed her
She is a manipulative Sith Lord, who uses people for her personal interests and holds the title of "Lord of Betrayal" for a good reason. Now how much these kinds of people can be trusted?

She even thinks that Ancients are some kind of Force Gods and people of her age are like children playing with toys when compared to them. Seriously, there are many other sources available that point out that Ancients are not so impressive.

Do you think that people like Revan, Exile, Sion, Malak and Nihilus are children playing with toys when compared to ancients?

You should understand that a huge SW Universe exists outside KOTOR II and how does Kriea percieves it is her own ideology. You should look at other sources as well and then make your conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
And I take it rather than believe Kreia for lack of better source, you prefer to believe, well, whatever you prefer to believe? Well, I do see your point... Claiming whatever you like and dismissing the only source you have out of hand does make it much easier to make the claim. Don't expect me to be convinced, though.
Believe me! I consider Kriea to be a very knowledgeable person but that does not means that her point-of-view about all the things are perfect. She does not even understands the importance of machines that Revan used for his purposes. She has a mystical type of personality.

And I am not fully dismissing what she says but again I have mentioned a possibility that she cannot be telling the whole truth. Like I said before that Sith Lords tend to keep sensitive information as secrets and Revan also did this. I am not making my own assumptions but using examples of actual happenings that further my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Yes, but I've read the quote too, and my conclusion is rather different, so where does that leave us?
And what is your conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
And yet there is. What does that tell us?
Speak out the doubt then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I don't think he did so as intensively as Kreia did later, because he was fighting a war at the same time. My take on Revan is that he is dedicated to his goals to fault. Almost hellbent, once he is set on a course. He would not be as determined as he is, if that were not so IMHO. It's one of the things that makes him a good strategist. So on that basis I must respectfully disagree with you.
Your thinking does not matters in this case. Actions of Revan speak louder then words.

- Revan discovered and explored the forbidden world of Malachor V and established a secret base over there.
- Revan discovered the Star Forge by travelling to various worlds and gathering information about its existance.
- Revan studied Star Forge itself and used it to fuel the power of his Empire.
- Revan explored the world of Korriban and discovered ancient tombs over there and established a Sith Academy over there.

So all these events have happened and you cannot deny the truth. Revan was indeed a great strategist but he was actually more then that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I try not to make unfounded arguments. I prefer to base mine on what evidence can be gleaned from the sources available.
And yet you fail to do so in case of Revan. Double standards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
And Nihilus used his power from orbit over Katarr, which would be at least, what, 20000 miles? Revan can force jump that far, I take it?
Is this not a 1 on 1 match in a same place?

You are again making a baseless and bogus point over here.

These comments are getting rather heated. Please avoid calling an opinion 'bogus'. --Jae

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It was cut, but it went far along into production to be written, so I think it's fair to assume that it is at least descriptive of what sort of powers the writers intended for Nihilus to have.
And still that content was discarded. Why?

And also did you noticed that Sion made a terrible mistake by running straight towards Nihilus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It's moot because - as I said before - we have no idea whether the same principle can be applied to Nihilus. So even if I agreed with that what you say here is true, it would still tell us nothing that is relevant to the question of whether Revan could do this to Nihilus or not. And no, I'm not saying whether I agree with you or not, because I don't feel I need to make up my mind on the issue, since it's just redundant to the matter at hand IMHO.
I will take this that you are undecided here. But the possibility that I mentioned remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Which I humbly disagree with for the reasons stated above.
It is your choice and it does not makes my point false. Sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Exactly. Seriously, it is nonsensical to think that Kreia would lie about such a thing.
Why? she is a Sith Lord and Sith Lords do not reveal all the sensitive information that they know even to their apprentices. I have posted an example to back my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Even if Revan learned more than Kreia at the Trayus Academy, so what? That doesn’t mean he/she could negate Nihilus force drain.
The problem is that Trayus Academy is the only region that we see intact on Malachor V in KOTOR II and many other regions have been destroyed. The Chronciles reveals that there were many other hidden tomb like cities on the surface of an intact Malachor V planet that Revan visited and he explored many of those hidden regions for more knowledge.

So things are not just limited to Trayus Academy. And we would never know that Revan might have possibly discovered a secret that could be used to counter Nihilus's Drain technique. After-all what Nihilus exhibited was not his own invention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
I’d love to see how anyone could bring down this argument.

What, can Revan force jump thousands of miles, as Jediphile’s said? Can Revan kill someone approximately 30 000km away from him/her with force storm?
And yet you fail to realize that we are talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are standing close to each other or in a same place. In this kind of scenario, Revan can surely do what I mentioned.

So your point is already moot.

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 05-04-2007 at 05:20 PM. Reason: combined double post
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 04:12 AM   #298
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shem
A lot of you know that I'm the manager of the KOTOR of FileFront. I'm running a poll this week that I started today and won't be changed until next Saturday. Just to give you an idea how people are trigger happy about voting for Revan, even if Revan isn't related to the subject matter. Check this out.

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/poll/

Read some of the responses and everything. I proved a point that I figured out a long time ago. Putting Revan in a poll at a KOTOR fan based website is pointless.
That's just hilarious, yet somehow I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry at this...

Because more than anything this convinces me that having any sort of meaningful discussion or conversation about Revan is next to pointless once the Revan fanboys get involved... You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 05:00 AM   #299
Melly
Junior Member
 
Melly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fixing things with Bao-Dur...
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...
**clears throat** Fangirls, too. And no we're not as numerous. Oh, well.

But even I know the Exile has her limits, just like Revan does, just like Luke, Obi-Wan, and Vader do.


"They may not call you a Jedi anymore, but believe me you are. It's not the sort of thing you just stop being. You're stuck with it. Just like you're stuck being the General."
~Bao-Dur, The Sith Lords
Melly is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 05:17 AM   #300
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melly
**clears throat** Fangirls, too. And no we're not as numerous. Oh, well.

But even I know the Exile has her limits, just like Revan does, just like Luke, Obi-Wan, and Vader do.
In which case you're not a fanboy... or girl


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 06:14 AM   #301
Lord Spitfire
Junior Member
 
Lord Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Tablecloth
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
That's just hilarious, yet somehow I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry at this...

Because more than anything this convinces me that having any sort of meaningful discussion or conversation about Revan is next to pointless once the Revan fanboys get involved... You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...
That's . . . . sad, to say the least. While everyone knows that Revan pawns all, that's still . . . . just sad!


Let there be rock!

"I hope they realize that music is music, and that music is not a scene, not a style. Music is a beautiful ****ing thing to listen to. It is not a thing to ****ing preach to others about, it's not a ****ing cause. It is what it is—and that's a beautiful artform." - Synyster Gates

Check out my Fanfic:
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: Embers of Destruction
Lord Spitfire is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 09:19 AM   #302
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why? she is a Sith Lord and Sith Lords do not reveal all the sensitive information that they know even to their apprentices. I have posted an example to back my point.
Why? Why? Are you serious? Because she wants him dead! She knows how dangerous Nihilus is. She knows that he would’ve devoured all life in the galaxy if the Exile didn’t stop him. The Exile is the key to stopping Nihilus. Kreia knows that. So it would be illogical if she lied to him/her about the fact that there is no defence against his draining ability, apart from him/her.

Sith Lords don’t lie all the time you know. You have to ask yourself: what would she gain by lying to the Exile about there being no defence against Nihilus’ draining ability? A Sith Lord will only lie if they benefit from it in some way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
The problem is that Trayus Academy is the only region that we see intact on Malachor V in KOTOR II and many other regions have been destroyed. The Chronciles reveals that there were many other hidden tomb like cities on the surface of an intact Malachor V planet that Revan visited and he explored many of those hidden regions for more knowledge.

So things are not just limited to Trayus Academy. And we would never know that Revan might have possibly discovered a secret that could be used to counter Nihilus's Drain technique. After-all what Nihilus exhibited was not his own invention.
Isn’t it rational to believe that Kreia and Sion (who both knew of no defensive technique against Nihilus) visited these “other regions” of Malachor V you speak of? Why would it be limited to just Revan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yet you fail to realize that we are talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are standing close to each other or in a same place. In this kind of scenario, Revan can surely do what I mentioned.

So your point is already moot.
And yet you fail to realise that you cannot just disregard Nihilus’ drain; thus he would use it before Revan could get anywhere near him, meaning that they couldn’t have any type of 1 on 1, face to face battle. Or what, do you think that Nihilus would wait and for some reason let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him? Why would he do that? So your point is moot.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 09:29 AM   #303
Christos K
Forumite
 
Christos K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 744
Also in the video did you not see how long it took for nihilus' power to become full efect. If Revan did force jump Nihilus' power would do nothing but hit his slaves. I admit that is sad how many people vote for Revan on anything. But still There would be ways to kill nihilus. Since nihilus' power takes so long to become fully effective Revan could do force push, force lighting or anything that is not defense but offense. No one in the game says there is no defense against nihilus' power either. Why doesnt someone just send some crazy email to obisidian or lucasarts and ask them who would win in a 1 on 1 duel between Revan and Nihilus. lol they would do crap but you could still try. And would everyone supporting NIhilus that the EXile is the key to defeating Nihilus. THAT IS NOT A FACT. No one says that except all of the exile fan girls and fan boys.


"It's the one that says Bad Mother ****er." - Jules Winnfield... Describing his wallet, Pulp Fiction.
Christos K is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 10:10 AM   #304
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Why? Why? Are you serious? Because she wants him dead! She knows how dangerous Nihilus is. She knows that he would’ve devoured all life in the galaxy if the Exile didn’t stop him. The Exile is the key to stopping Nihilus. Kreia knows that. So it would be illogical if she lied to him/her about the fact that there is no defence against his draining ability, apart from him/her.
Here are some cases:

A) She does not know that any defensive technique exists to counter the Drain of Nihilus. She tried to find one but she did not succeeded and thus came to a conclusion that no such defensive technique exists.

OR

B) She is not telling the whole truth to Exile. She does not wants to face Nihilus herself and since Exile is the only viable option to defeat Nihilus easily, so she sends him to defeat him and tells her that only she (Exile) is the key to defeat him.

My point is that whatever Kriea says is not always true. Unless it is officially declared that there is no defence to Nihilus' Drain, there will always be a possibility for a one to exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Sith Lords don’t lie all the time you know. You have to ask yourself: what would she gain by lying to the Exile about there being no defence against Nihilus’ draining ability? A Sith Lord will only lie if they benefit from it in some way.
I never said that Sith Lords always lie all the time. But they do lie when they have some vested interests to consider or do not want to reveal sensitive information.

And you failed to note that Kriea indeed benefitted from that supposed "lie" or theory of hers by convincing Exile that only Exile is the key to stop Nihilus and Kriea won't have to go through a more difficult route to stop him. Thus she stayed behind and watched the results, which proved to be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Isn’t it rational to believe that Kreia and Sion (who both knew of no defensive technique against Nihilus) visited these “other regions” of Malachor V you speak of? Why would it be limited to just Revan?
Once again you failed to note that Malachor V was a perfect and un-damaged planet when Revan visited it and it harboured many hidden tomb like cities filled with Sith knowledge/secrets apart from the Trayus Academy. This was before the conclusion of Mandalorian War.

Now Sion and Kriea visited Malachor V planet after the Mandalorian War and by that time, that planet was mostly destroyed by the "Mass Shadow Generator" and many places were lost and few places remained intact and Trayus Academy was the only notable region to visit in Malachor V as evident from KOTOR II.

Now how can Sion and Kriea gain as much information as Revan gained from Malachor V, when it was already a destroyed planet with few places intact when they visited it while this was not the case when Revan visited Malachor V?

My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
And yet you fail to realise that you cannot just disregard Nihilus’ drain; thus he would use it before Revan could get anywhere near him, meaning that they couldn’t have any type of 1 on 1, face to face battle. Or what, do you think that Nihilus would wait and for some reason let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him? Why would he do that? So your point is moot.
Once again you do not know that how quickly Nihilus can unleash his Drain attack in a 1 vs 1 scenario and the opponent will not be just standing there to get hit by his attack.

It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber. In this case, Nihilus will have to counter the attack with his Saber and the duel will start. Now Revan will have the advantage.

So like Christos K said, Revan won't be just standing and watching.

You should understand that SPEED and SKILL are the two most important factors that determine the outcome in a 1 vs 1 combat scenario. And circumstances also play a vital role.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 05:15 PM   #305
Emperor Devon
36 Wings, 365 Eyes
 
Emperor Devon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,479
Current Game: Ass Effect
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.
There are several reasons I'm extraordinarily skeptical Revan that learned some anti-Nihilus technique in these "tomb-like cities"...

First, the Trayus Academy is obviously the most protected structure on Malachor, having obviously survived the Mass Shadow Generator. Since this technique of yours is so rare and so powerful, why store it in one place that's much more vulnerable than another? That would've been idiotic for the Sith to do.

Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?

Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.

Lastly, supposing the technique even existed despite the above reasons, I don't see how it could exactly work. A Jedi drawing on the Force to protect themselves when facing Nihilus would be like pouring barbecue sauce over his meal. Since it's what he obviously feeds upon, simply coating a Jedi with the Force would simply give him more to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber.
I'm quite surprised this didn't happen at Katarr. Honestly, do you think Revan could be faster than half a dozen (or perhaps several dozen) Jedi Masters attacking in unison? One Sith Lord is much less dangerous than they were, and Nihilus mopped the floor with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
We will be great failures one day, you and I
Emperor Devon is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 05:49 PM   #306
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?

Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.
This is what I don't understand either. This supposed anti-Nihilus is complete BASELESS! There is no evidence or even hint of it in any source. None. At all!

So why are we even discussing it? Until such a time as such a power is established or even hinted at in ANY Star Wars source, it is a non-issue, because it does not exist. We might just as well claim that Nihilus was immune to force powers, that Kreia could timetravel, or some other equally wild idea pulled out of thin air with no basis to support it at all.


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 07:40 PM   #307
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
So why are we even discussing it? Until such a time as such a power is established or even hinted at in ANY Star Wars source, it is a non-issue, because it does not exist. We might just as well claim that Nihilus was immune to force powers, that Kreia could timetravel, or some other equally wild idea pulled out of thin air with no basis to support it at all.
I claim that Nihilius is immune to all force powers.

Why? I tried to use Force Lighting on Nihilus and it said, "Failed!" Since gameplay equals reality, and I always tried to use Force Lighting, and I always tried to use other Force Powers, but they failed...hm. Nihilus may not be immune to all Force Powers, but he has a lot of immunity, and if Exile cannot break that immunity, I don't know if Revan can either. Much easier to say that Nihilus is immune to all force powers.

Revan loses. Revan is the Heart of the Force, after all, meaning that he is a good Force User...but the Force is meaingless against a monster with high Force Resistence. And Nihilus is an AWESOME lightsaber duelist, he knocked out Mandalore with one of his great lightsaber swipe, so Revan won't stand a chance. If Nihilus doesn't use his Force Drain (because, you know, he's bored and he wants to have some fun too as a monsterous monster), then Nihilus can wipe out Revan because he is immune to Force Powers and that he is a good lightsaber duelist. Nihilus would just Force Spam Revan.

End of story.
===
Seriously, this has gone long enough. Who decides who wins in a battle between Revan and Nihilus? LA. If LA wants to give in to fanboys and let Revan win, then Revan wins. But LA is surely not getting my money any more for giving into fanboys and ruining Nihilus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
SilentScope001 is offline   you may:
Old 04-29-2007, 09:15 PM   #308
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
Read post 306# from Emperor Devon to see why I believe no anti-Nihilus force power exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Once again you failed to note that Malachor V was a perfect and un-damaged planet when Revan visited it and it harboured many hidden tomb like cities filled with Sith knowledge/secrets apart from the Trayus Academy. This was before the conclusion of Mandalorian War.

Now Sion and Kriea visited Malachor V planet after the Mandalorian War and by that time, that planet was mostly destroyed by the "Mass Shadow Generator" and many places were lost and few places remained intact and Trayus Academy was the only notable region to visit in Malachor V as evident from KOTOR II.

Now how can Sion and Kriea gain as much information as Revan gained from Malachor V, when it was already a destroyed planet with few places intact when they visited it while this was not the case when Revan visited Malachor V?

My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.
Ah, but since I believe that Kreia and Kae are the same person, I believe she didn’t first visit Malachor V after the Mandalorian Wars, thus she had access to all these “other regions” of Malachor V like Revan did. And she still found no anti-Nihilus power.

Of course I could be wrong about Kreia being Kae, but there are many clues in TSL that suggest they are the same person, and there is no proof in the game that they aren’t the same person. That doesn’t mean they are the same people of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Once again you do not know that how quickly Nihilus can unleash his Drain attack in a 1 vs 1 scenario and the opponent will not be just standing there to get hit by his attack.

It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber. In this case, Nihilus will have to counter the attack with his Saber and the duel will start. Now Revan will have the advantage.

So like Christos K said, Revan won't be just standing and watching.

You should understand that SPEED and SKILL are the two most important factors that determine the outcome in a 1 vs 1 combat scenario. And circumstances also play a vital role.
You can’t possibly be that… for Pete’s sake!

Once again you have IGNORED the FACT that Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him?

Revan CANNOT force jump thousands of miles. Revan CANNOT kill someone with force storm who is thousands of miles away from him/her.

Read this once again: Revan COULD NOT get CLOSE ENOUGH to Nihilus to be able to harm him in the first place.

Your most likely counter argument: Yes but if Revan was close enough to be able to kill Nihilus, he could force jump him and kill him, or use force storm and kill him.

My argument against that:

a) Since Nihilus drains and eats the force, one can assume that he would just absorb any force powers thrown at him by a REGULAR force user, thus force storm/lightning wouldn’t work on him.

b) You CANNOT just disregard Nihilus’ force drain just to suit Revan. Nihilus wouldn’t wait for some reason and let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him. Why would he do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos K
Also in the video did you not see how long it took for nihilus' power to become full efect.
How do you know that I didn’t see that Nihilus vs. Sion video? I did. Before I say why I believe Nihilus wasn’t using the same power he did on all life save Visas on Katarr, I’ll explain why Revan WOULD NOT be able to force jump Nihilus.

Because:

Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him? Revan CANNOT force jump thousands of miles. Revan CANNOT kill someone with force storm who is thousands of miles away from him/her.

There are two reasons why I believe Nihilus wasn’t using his super force drain power against Sion:

a) Unseen, Unheard (a canonical article. I'm going by what the reliable ED said) says that Visas said when Nihilus spoke, it deafened everyone on Katarr of the force, and that deafening killed them. Visas pulled through because she is tied to Nihilus somehow, which is evidenced by her sacrifice option on the Ravager. Nihilus didn’t speak (say something which causes force users to be deafened of the force) when he attacked Sion, it looks like he just used the regular force drain power on him.

b) Nihilus most likely knows about Sion’s regeneration. He could kill him over and over again, but that would be a waste of time, because Sion would keep coming back and coming back, and it appears Nihilus doesn’t have the ability to break Sion's will and permanently kill him.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 02:02 AM   #309
S_W_LeGenD
Rookie
 
S_W_LeGenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
There are several reasons I'm extraordinarily skeptical Revan that learned some anti-Nihilus technique in these "tomb-like cities"...
Of-course! you can be skeptical since there is no definate evidence but just suppositions. But such a possibility still remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
First, the Trayus Academy is obviously the most protected structure on Malachor, having obviously survived the Mass Shadow Generator. Since this technique of yours is so rare and so powerful, why store it in one place that's much more vulnerable than another? That would've been idiotic for the Sith to do.
We would never know that which structure on Malachor V was most protected because when the planet was destroyed, some structures were gone and a few remained, among which Trayus Academy was one.

Remember that it is possible that not all structures get badly damaged in a disaster hit region. Some stand and some fall.

Another thing is that Trayus Academy was a frequently used region so that specific technique was probably not kept over there for everyone to study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?
He would have taken it. He did took things with him that were very important to him. Remember that the secrets of Tulak Horde were actiually taken by Revan and Kriea admitted that those secrets were no longer present on Korriban planet. So it is a possibility that he could have taken such a secret with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.
Obsidian might not have thought about it but remember that Obsidian is not the only company in-charge for developing KOTOR games. Stories can be easily changed or altered or even retconned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Lastly, supposing the technique even existed despite the above reasons, I don't see how it could exactly work. A Jedi drawing on the Force to protect themselves when facing Nihilus would be like pouring barbecue sauce over his meal. Since it's what he obviously feeds upon, simply coating a Jedi with the Force would simply give him more to eat.
That technique can be of a very different nature. We can only speculate about it.

I can give you one example: thousands of years later, a technique known as Force Cloak was introduced by Fallanassi. They taught it to a Jedi Luke Skywalker and he mastered it.

Now a normal Force Cloak technique allows a Jedi to become invisible to the eyes and to any electronic item as well. But an advanced form of Force Cloak allows a person to even hide/prevent his Force sensitivity from detection from other Force sensitive beings. You cannot even sense the presence of a Jedi who has mastered the Force Cloak technique and when that Jedi is using it. Now this technique can be used to fool Nihilus that no one is present in the same region where he is standing and he can get attacked by such a foe in a 1 vs 1 scenario without getting detected in the process. But chances of failure are also there.

So this one particular technique can be useful in a fight against Nihilus.

And there can be some other techniques as well. It is not necessary that a direct counter to Nihilus drain exists, although there is a possibility for one such to exist but we do not know. But certain techniques do exist that can be used to gain advantage in any kind of challenging scenario. The above mentioned technique is one good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
I'm quite surprised this didn't happen at Katarr. Honestly, do you think Revan could be faster than half a dozen (or perhaps several dozen) Jedi Masters attacking in unison? One Sith Lord is much less dangerous than they were, and Nihilus mopped the floor with them.
Once again! you are talking about a different scenario, which is irrelevant.

I am talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are present in a same region and both know that their opponent is there and ready for battle. In this kind of scenario, factors such as Speed, Skill and Circumstances decide the out-come of a battle. And Revan can do what he wants in this kind of fighting scenario.

So like I said before:

-> If Nihilus manages to hit first - he wins.
-> If Revan manages to hit first - he wins.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 04-30-2007 at 02:15 AM.
S_W_LeGenD is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 06:38 AM   #310
The Architect
Junior Member
 
The Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 413
Debating with S_W_LeGenD is like debating with a brick wall.

He refuses to acknowledge that fact that there couldn’t possibly be a close, face to face, one on one battle between Revan and Nihilus in the first place, because of Nihilus’ ability to detect and drain force users from thousands of miles away.

You cannot just disregard Nihilus’ ability to do that to suit Revan. Emperor Devon hit the nail on the head. One ex-Sith Lord isn’t going to be more trouble for Nihilus than approximately one hundred Jedi.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

~ Bill Hicks
The Architect is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 08:57 AM   #311
Lord Spitfire
Junior Member
 
Lord Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Tablecloth
Posts: 279
Architecht, who said that Revan must use a ship to dock on the Ravager, then go to fight Nihilus?

Since it has never happened, you wouldn't know for sure how it would happen. If it were face-to-face, Revan would pawn Nihilus. He'd cut him down before Nihilus could concentrate to use that power.

However if Revan had to doc on the Ravager and travel to Nihilus, there is no doubt that Nihilus would eat Revan before he got so far.

An irrelevant peice of information, but did you know that when writing the story, Obsidian had the idea of Nihilus's mask to be made out of Revan's skull, but they quickly changed it because they thought that Revan had to live. Though this might be a little evidence that Nihilus would kill Revan, I'm not sure. Though in a duel, as I said, I think Revan would pawn Nihilus. But that's my opinion.


Let there be rock!

"I hope they realize that music is music, and that music is not a scene, not a style. Music is a beautiful ****ing thing to listen to. It is not a thing to ****ing preach to others about, it's not a ****ing cause. It is what it is—and that's a beautiful artform." - Synyster Gates

Check out my Fanfic:
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: Embers of Destruction
Lord Spitfire is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 12:54 PM   #312
Quanon
Senior Member
 
Quanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lost in my own unconsiciousens
Posts: 2,600
Forum Veteran Veteran Modder Helpful! 
I say you put them in boxing-arena , a real fair fight . So no Hutts involved to organize

So you set up some rules , no Force tricks and faul language before the bell rings and arm of the arbiter is down .

Yes that's right we need a judge of somekind to follow the fight . Since you all said it : Sith Lords cheat and lie if they can gain anything for it that helps themself .

So I say we put Malak or Atris or GO-TO ( hopefully a wild lighting hits him ) in the middle and watch the show , from far away that is !!! lol

To conclude : I voted Nihilus ; he talks funny , has a hot looking girl as apprintince . ( no jawless bold guy that laughs like a maniac all the time )
Lets Sion and the other Sith do his dirty work while he relax's on his big ship.
GO Nihilus you "sexy lad" , yaaargh


TIQUILAAAAAAAA
Quanon is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 07:25 PM   #313
Emperor Devon
36 Wings, 365 Eyes
 
Emperor Devon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,479
Current Game: Ass Effect
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
We would never know that which structure on Malachor V was most protected because when the planet was destroyed, some structures were gone and a few remained, among which Trayus Academy was one.
Here you're doing nothing but speculating. There is no form of evidence whatsoever to indicate that any of the tomb-cities survived, let alone that they contained already unproven techniques to resist Nihilus.

At this point we might as well start coming up with fanon theories that Revan could blast whole planets apart with the Force and could could out duel-ten thousand Jedi at once. There's just as much evidence to support those ideas as there is to support your Nihilus-defense technique theory.

More like evidence of absence than actual evidence of absence for those ideas, actually. Not the sort of thing that's good to rely upon in a debate this factual. I say we stick to canon for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
So it is a possibility that he could have taken such a secret with him.
My above statement about fanon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obsidian might not have thought about it but remember that Obsidian is not the only company in-charge for developing KOTOR games. Stories can be easily changed or altered or even retconned.
Can you cite any official sources where a Nihilus-defense technique was created? I myself can't think of any. (By that I mean canonical, not fanonical sources)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
But an advanced form of Force Cloak allows a person to even hide/prevent his Force sensitivity from detection from other Force sensitive beings. You cannot even sense the presence of a Jedi who has mastered the Force Cloak technique and when that Jedi is using it.
I've heard of this technique, but I would not consider it enough. Considering how Nihilus is capable of feeling Force-sensitives across millions of light years I don't think one cloaked Force-user right next to him would stand much of a chance at hiding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD
Once again! you are talking about a different scenario, which is irrelevant.

I am talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are present
Might I ask how this irrelevant? Nihilus was facing much worse odds on Katarr than he ever would against Revan. They were quite similar scenarios; he was right by all those Jedi and within range to have a lightsaber jabbed into his gut. That there were dozens of them rather than simply one only gave Nihilus worse odds; that he could overcome them is quite a testament to his power. Group fights are much, much harder to win than one-on-one fights. There is no logical way you can claim that Nihilus winning an extremely difficult fight is evidence that he would lose a difficult one.

Unless Revan is more powerful than one hundred Jedi Masters? Of course not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
We will be great failures one day, you and I
Emperor Devon is offline   you may:
Old 04-30-2007, 09:35 PM   #314
SirHaxALot
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Once again you have IGNORED the FACT that Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him?
Yes, Nihilus is so great at detecting force users from thousands of miles away--as the trap for him on Telos exemplifies. His ability is great, don't get me wrong, but it is not perfect as he is unable to detect Kreia, the other Jedi Masters, and The Exile (obvious reasons). Also, Atris is the one who betrayed the meeting on Katarr to Nihilus, in hopes that the order would be able to crush him (this may or may not be canon, disprove me with facts).

Anyways, why does this 1v1 encounter have to encompass great distances? Ok, here's the scenario: Revan is in the Unknown Regions and Nihilus is on Coruscant, who would win? Remember: they cannot leave their respective areas! Also, if we're going to bring distance into this, consider Revan's forces versus Nihilus' forces. Who do you think would win a war? I don't believe that's a hard question to answer.

We're trying to create a debate in regards to the use of their individual abilities within well-defined perimeters such as a close-combat situation where force powers such as Force Choke, Force Lightning, Mind Trick, Push, etc...would all be within range.

Congratulations, Nihilus could kill Revan from thousands of miles away if he could pinpoint Revan's location etc etc etc....Now, that isn't much of a 1v1. Darth Vader could kill Luke from thousand of miles away using the Deathstar to destroy a planet--so obviously Vader is more powerful in a 1v1.

Let's just set-up the scenario as such when the Exile encounters Nihilus on the Ravager's bridge.

Seemingly, the Exile is the only person who can battle Nihilus. So, both are voids in the force etc etc...

The Exile, can be affected by people using force on him. IE: Kreia could still push the Exile even after he defeated Nihilus, also Sith/Jedi could still use force powers on the Exile. This means, that this void, which the Exile represents, is not immune to Force effects, it is just void of life touched by the force in particular.

Nihilus can also be hit by force powers (I remember Force Kill working once...and just to make sure I was correct, I replayed a game saved just before this fight and successfully Force Wave'd him).

We can safely postulate that Nihilus is not immune to Force or Saber attacks. Now, we come down to a basic question: who wins?

Does Nihilus' ability to deplete all life of force (especially on a large scale) require some degree of concentration? Obviously, after all, it is a power attributed to the Sith. But, also, any force power in particular, requires some degree of concentration.

Nihilus is arrogant. We clearly see this when the Exile confronts Nihilus; instead of Nihilus directly attacking the Exile, he just sort of stands around, talks with the Exile then attacks him after the Exile goads him into it (If you must feed...then feed on me!).

Now, imagine Revan in the same situation. Also, Revan is not going to let his opponent have a free attack on him (I mean, he is a tactician, not a retard--he doesn't believe that force won't have an affect on him).

So, maybe Revan would get a force attack off before Nihilus is able to react. But, I also fail to believe that one attack is enough to cripple Nihilus, regardless of how strong Revan is.

Now, Nihilus has his chance to counter, he aims his devastating life drain attack and fires (matter of speaking). Is Revan unable to dodge this? Is Revan unable to use a force power to counter another force power (remember, his ability to annihilate life is used by means of the force, in essence he manipulates the force within victims)?

Let me interject all of this with another string of information/speculation. Revan was able to convert all of the Jedi that went to War to his side. As Kreia admits, "Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed." She tells the exile that manipulating beings through the force was Revan's way. Kreia suggests that Revan's success in converting so many Jedi was because he knew how to take advantage of wounds in the force, (IE: Malachor V).

There are too many possible variables here. Sure, Nihilus has great commanding of the force, but after all he is manipulating the Force. The Force can be countered by the Force. Although, Kreia does claim there is no counter to this force power...But also, Nihilus is not immune to force attacks, therefore if he is ousted before the use of his unstoppable attack, it is of no matter.

In my opinion, the fight could go either way. Circumstances dictate too much of this fight, if you don't believe so, then re-read everyone else's comment/post. They all revolve around certain circumstances (IE: Revan getting a surprise force jump attack on Nihilus. Or Nihilus attacking Revan from a vast distance).

Let's say Nihilus and Revan face off old western style. The timer beeps down to 3 and they attack at the same time. Revan throws his saber and Nihilus uses his force devour attack. Revan is devoured and Nihilus' head is chopped off. Wooooo

But, to top off my opinion, I believe Revan would come out on top (that is of course, in my selective circumstances XD).
SirHaxALot is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 03:34 AM   #315
Vaelastraz
Veteran
 
Vaelastraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: City 17. It's safer.
Posts: 851
Sounds very reasonable to me.
But it really just depends on how EXACTLY Nihilus' force drain works. And we don't know that I'm afraid...
We should probably make a list with all "facts" we have of that ability.
1.) It works on a planetary scale, from orbit.
2.) Noone so far resisted it except Visas and Exile.
3.) There is another form of that power: His "presence" kills as well, his crew is drained slowly...

Perhaps a simply "force immunity" could be enough to resist it...The Jedi masters on Katarr didn't have the chance to try this, as they were killed from orbit. But then again, force immunity doesn't even prevent Malak's force lightning completely.

I still think, in a single combat, Nihilus wins.
Vaelastraz is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 09:03 AM   #316
Christos K
Forumite
 
Christos K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 744
Why did you say: If LA wants to give in to fanboys and let Revan win, then Revan wins. But LA is surely not getting my money any more for giving into fanboys and ruining Nihilus.

Darth Nihilus is allready dead what would it matter to them. And by saying this you are a Nihilus fanboy/girl.


"It's the one that says Bad Mother ****er." - Jules Winnfield... Describing his wallet, Pulp Fiction.
Christos K is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 12:45 PM   #317
Jediphile
Persona non grata
 
Jediphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Also, Atris is the one who betrayed the meeting on Katarr to Nihilus, in hopes that the order would be able to crush him (this may or may not be canon, disprove me with facts).
It's in the dialog.tlk, but is never stated in the game. So it's canon as much or as little as the exile's discussion with Lonna Vash, the Sion vs. Nihilus confrontation, or Kreia's claim of Revan ordering the bombing of Telos during the Jedi Civil War. I'd accept since it's in the game files and fits Atris' MO, but only if the rest is as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Congratulations, Nihilus could kill Revan from thousands of miles away if he could pinpoint Revan's location etc etc etc....Now, that isn't much of a 1v1. Darth Vader could kill Luke from thousand of miles away using the Deathstar to destroy a planet--so obviously Vader is more powerful in a 1v1.
No, that's Vader pushing a button while Nihilus uses his own powers. That's a significant difference that's not so easily ignored. That's the Death Star's power, not Vader's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Does Nihilus' ability to deplete all life of force (especially on a large scale) require some degree of concentration? Obviously, after all, it is a power attributed to the Sith. But, also, any force power in particular, requires some degree of concentration.
But it is problematic to compare Nihilus' powers to those of other forceusers because they are so unique...

Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

Instinct suggests an almost involutary action rather than a conscious, mental command.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Nihilus is arrogant. We clearly see this when the Exile confronts Nihilus; instead of Nihilus directly attacking the Exile, he just sort of stands around, talks with the Exile then attacks him after the Exile goads him into it (If you must feed...then feed on me!).
Since we know VERY little of Nihilus, this is difficult to say. And note that just making a surprise attack on Nihilus is not possible - as soon as the exile gets close, he and his friends are automatically stunned by Nihilus before he even turns to look at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Now, imagine Revan in the same situation. Also, Revan is not going to let his opponent have a free attack on him (I mean, he is a tactician, not a retard--he doesn't believe that force won't have an affect on him).

So, maybe Revan would get a force attack off before Nihilus is able to react. But, I also fail to believe that one attack is enough to cripple Nihilus, regardless of how strong Revan is.
I would disagree with that on the basis of what is stated above. You cannot rush Nihilus in the game because he stuns you, and what would save Revan from that? And even if Revan could do that, Nihilus' reaction is instinctual, which would make it virtually impossible to move faster. I'm not going to claim that Nihilus is a god-like force, but having instinctual reflexes rather than cognitive ones would seem to be a huge benefit in a fight like that.

Reaction is based on the basis that you must formulate a course of action before you can begin to set it into motion, i.e., a thought-process that needs to be completed before you can begin your act. However, Nihilus is virtually thoughtless and reacts completely on instinct. So there really is no thought-process to slow him down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHaxALot
Let me interject all of this with another string of information/speculation. Revan was able to convert all of the Jedi that went to War to his side. As Kreia admits, "Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed." She tells the exile that manipulating beings through the force was Revan's way. Kreia suggests that Revan's success in converting so many Jedi was because he knew how to take advantage of wounds in the force, (IE: Malachor V).
Uhm... This looks like a fairly significant overinterpretation to me. Revan was interested in force BONDS, not wounds. There were no force wounds that we know of before the exile. That's why the masters fear the exile's ability so much.

HK-47: "But the most effective weapon against Jedi seems to be the erosion of the spirit.Answer: Revan claimed that psychological warfare against Jedi was important because much of their power comes from their state of mind, their connection to this religion called the "Force."Revan said that many Jedi have the capability to form connections to life around them, although few of them realized the extent to which this is possible."

Zez-Kai Ell: "There were a few within the Order who knew more than I did of such bonds - but their students were few, lost in the Mandalorian Wars. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war."

Kreia: "But no Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force."


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Jediphile is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 04:05 PM   #318
GarfieldJL
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,856
I'm guessing Nihilus uses a darkside version of Energy Absorbtion. Thus having a similar power the Halycon line. This is just a guess but it could be possible that someone from that family could have taken Nihilus on, because absorbing energy is absorbing energy. One member of that family Nejaa to be specific absorbed all the energy of a guy's lightsaber and used it to crush the guy.
GarfieldJL is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 07:30 PM   #319
Titanius Anglesmith
Kingslayer
 
Titanius Anglesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,459
Nihilus can absorb people's Force energy, so couldn't he be able to simply absorb any Force power, lightning for instance? If so, I would think that would severely hamper Revan's ability to win, since if he was unable to use the Force on Nihilus, he would have to get close enough to fight with a lightsaber. By that time, even if what some people say of Nihilus' power taking time to "warm up" was true, he would still not be able to get close enough to take him down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos K
Darth Nihilus is allready dead what would it matter to them. And by saying this you are a Nihilus fanboy/girl.
No, we are debating on, if Nihilus and Revan fought, who would win. Saying Nihilus would win isn't fanboyism, it's only stating an opinion about a hypothetical situation.

And besides, Nihilus actually could be alive if Jediphile's theory is correct, which I think it is. So who knows, we may actually see a Revan/Nihilus fight in K3.


Titanius Anglesmith is offline   you may:
Old 05-01-2007, 09:57 PM   #320
SirHaxALot
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24
I just have a quick question before I delve further into this debacle:

Do you believe any Jedi in existence could defeat Nihilus except the Exile?

From the looks of things, The Force, personal lightsaber skills, general standing within the order etc...have no effect on the strength of Nihilus' power.

Please remember, Luke Skywalker is known for opening a black hole and also cloaking 2 planets for thousands of years using the force.

But would all of these techniques fail against the awesome might that is Nihilus?

Remember, the force can be an indirect opponent as much as a direct one (IE: throwing objects etc..).

Revan could blow a whole in the window behind Nihilus and suck both of them into space XD
SirHaxALot is offline   you may:
Post a new thread. Sorry, this thread is closed. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > Telos Tourist Bureau > Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:46 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.