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Old 12-05-2006, 11:06 PM   #1
cuko
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ledgegrab optional?

I read in several places that a lot of work went into the whole ledgegrab thing.

Can this be turned off?

I really hate ledgegrab in every mod. I think its a great feature for others, and if they want to use it great, but it hurts my game because I constantly seem to grab every ledge I come accross.
It also crashed the game several times when I hit the ledge either with gun in hand, or while making quick transition to saber.

Thanks!

=>
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:18 PM   #2
razorace
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Strange, I've never had the game crash during ledgegrabs. Are you using OJP or some other mod?

Anyway, I don't think there's a disable for ledge grab, there's just not enough desire to have it be a togglable feature.


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Old 12-05-2006, 11:28 PM   #3
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What about making it a buyable skill for anybody? And for that matter, what about making force fall a buyable skill for jedi as well as auto push if it isn't already? It would help fill out our menu, allow for more gradual upgrading, and statisfy alot of those people who don't like those features.


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Old 12-05-2006, 11:43 PM   #4
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Hockney: umm no...I mean how hard is it to do a pullup? Unless you're Reelo, but that's quite out of point

I find it can be a little annoying sometimes too though. Perhaps we could do it like Thief? ie. ledge grab / mantle by holding Jump key while in mid air. Yeah I know it's being used for Force Fall, but it could be used at the same time for ledge grab too, since both are not directly conflicting moves
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:32 AM   #5
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Hockney: umm no...I mean how hard is it to do a pullup? Unless you're Reelo, but that's quite out of point
There's a big difference between doing a normal pullup on a bar and doing one hanging off the edge of a cliff because your right up against the cliff face and can't use the leverage of being under it like you can with a bar, so its alot harder. its also a matter of having the strength and coordination to grap the ledge in the first place from any jumping or falling angle. further more, would you be able to do a pull up on the edge of a cliff with 30 or more extra pounds on your back for weapons or items?

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I find it can be a little annoying sometimes too though. Perhaps we could do it like Thief? ie. ledge grab / mantle by holding Jump key while in mid air. Yeah I know it's being used for Force Fall, but it could be used at the same time for ledge grab too, since both are not directly conflicting moves
Thats not too bad an idea either. If it were buyable, maybe different levels of it could be based on if you can grap a ledge at certain falling speeds and really cheap intially?


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Old 12-06-2006, 12:33 AM   #6
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I like that UDM. Have holding a button do ledge grab rather than it being automatic.
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:09 AM   #7
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I like the idea of pressing jump to ledge grab if that's what most people want.


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Old 12-06-2006, 01:10 AM   #8
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I love the ledge grab! It's one of my favorite features. I've been a fan of the ledge grab since Tomb Raider. Holding a button could work (I would suggest the Crouch or Walk button for that). However, I've always found the grab to usually be quite intuitive as it is. I dare say I like it better when I automatically grab a ledge, especially since it can be a last-ditch "save" you never expected to have as you get kicked off a ledge. Very dramatic.

As far as the real-life difficulty of pulling up on a ledge... my experience is that it's easier by far than doing pullups on a bar. Having a surface to balance your body against helps a ton, even if for some reason you can't use your feet.
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
I love the ledge grab! It's one of my favorite features. I've been a fan of the ledge grab since Tomb Raider. Holding a button could work (I would suggest the Crouch or Walk button for that). However, I've always found the grab to usually be quite intuitive as it is. I dare say I like it better when I automatically grab a ledge, especially since it can be a last-ditch "save" you never expected to have as you get kicked off a ledge. Very dramatic.
I would prefer a button for it though. There's just too much frustration about doing it automatically. Jump would work, but it might be more intuitive to have a button like crouch do it since then you'd be able to jump up the side of a cliff without grabing it if you dont want to grab it.

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As far as the real-life difficulty of pulling up on a ledge... my experience is that it's easier by far than doing pullups on a bar. Having a surface to balance your body against helps a ton, even if for some reason you can't use your feet.
Well, we dont have using your feet animated in the animation. And, it depends on what your foot holds are and if you can reach around something at the top of the ledge. If its just flat at the top it can be hard to push against he cliff with your feet and keep a good grip. But yeah, it really depends on the cliff itself.


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Old 12-06-2006, 03:30 AM   #10
razorace
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
I would prefer a button for it though. There's just too much frustration about doing it automatically. Jump would work, but it might be more intuitive to have a button like crouch do it since then you'd be able to jump up the side of a cliff without grabing it if you dont want to grab it.
Jump seems more like what other games use. I don't really think that people need the ability to jump over a lip of a ledge like that. It's not like ledge grab takes THAT much time. Besides, if they want to get up fast, they can back up and take a leap like in real life.

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Well, we dont have using your feet animated in the animation. And, it depends on what your foot holds are and if you can reach around something at the top of the ledge. If its just flat at the top it can be hard to push against he cliff with your feet and keep a good grip. But yeah, it really depends on the cliff itself.
True, we originally were going to have a Merc and a Force User pullup animation, but the merc pullup was never finalized.


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Old 12-06-2006, 09:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Strange, I've never had the game crash during ledgegrabs. Are you using OJP or some other mod?

Anyway, I don't think there's a disable for ledge grab, there's just not enough desire to have it be a togglable feature.
Errr the ledgegrap is only in Enhanced right? If yea then w/e, but if it is even in Basic then plz2make a toggle and default off. (haven't played OJP in quite a while :/) kthx
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:02 PM   #12
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Razorace: the problem is that when you ledge grab, there's a 2 second interval before you can get your character to react to either let go or climb up. During these crucial 2 seconds, it could mean being shot and getting killed instantly

Also, it is more realistic to have to hold jump a second time in order to ledge grab. For example, if you're falling at 50kmph, there's no way you can grab a ledge without tearing off your fingers. You'd have to slow down first, then grab it.
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Old 12-06-2006, 03:53 PM   #13
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The game isn't set up to detect the "second time" you've pressed jump. It can only detect weither or not you've been holding it down since the last frame.


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Old 12-07-2006, 04:41 PM   #14
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Could be done fairly easily with some pmove stuff I think. I've seen it done for a sort of 'double jump'.


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Old 12-08-2006, 08:36 AM   #15
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I once made a detailed list of an overhauled platforming system I'd love to see, but that was probably more work for OJP than would be worth it.

But yeah, I think having to hold a button to grab the ledge would be good. I suggest making that button be the walk button.



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Old 12-08-2006, 09:56 AM   #16
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Or the use button.

It's less sophisticated.

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Old 12-08-2006, 10:49 AM   #17
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I think it might be more desireable to players than you would guess.
If OJP is to be purely a RPG type mod, then I would see how players wouldn't care - but if it is to truely be a mod for gamers, its like adding a serious glich to the game that would frequently get you killed.
It seems strange that almost every feature (some very pointless ones) can be toggled, but something that serious is cannot be.
I do like the ideas some have had here sugguesting a button that would activate it - making it more of a realistic, deliberate move.

Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:20 PM   #18
razorace
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Almost every feature? I thought most of the OJP stuff doesn't have toggles...

I don't think you guys realize HOW many people begged for ledge grabbing as a feature in the first place.


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Old 12-09-2006, 08:33 AM   #19
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I love the feature! But it feels kind of incomplete...like it only has 80% incorporated, and 20% not incorporated, in the sense that well, you can't control when you want to grab and when not to grab

That said, it's actually more of a slight itch than a major inconvenience in-game. Doesn't really affect much imho whether we can choose to grab the ledge or not
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:11 PM   #20
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Could someone please create a poll thread that has a poll about which button (or automatic) the ledge grab should use? I'd probably have at least Walk, Jump, Use, and Crouch as options.


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